Right! The old guard training the young! Has anything changed? The elder know best BS. I guess to a limited way, they do know something sometimes, but do not dare tell them. Others know how to screw others and the system. Not sure if it will help achieve Thailand 4.0 though. There are many decent people here though. Really. I know many. They are not old though. A mix of know-how and youthful Elon Musk can do is best. Sorry!

Trump supporter: "Climut change? Of course, it does! Yesterday was raining and tomorrow will be sunny, as it always been! When I will see MY house sliding down the mountain or drought that I have never seen, then I will believe.That science is pure speculation, hot air. I don't follow that. I follow the bible. That has withstood times and even climut change."

26 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Really? I thought the trial hasn't started yet.....

 

And the law says he is innocent.

 

So your post is better defined as Has your hatred of President Trump's Blinded

 you to the essence of American liberty?

From the Guardian:

Quote

Bradley Moss, a Washington-based attorney who specialises in national security issues, expressed dismay that Manafort was allowing his case to go this far.

 

“They have him nailed dead to rights,” said Moss. “He is going to spend the rest of his life in jail if convicted.”

 

In addition to the alleged tax evasion, Manafort is accused by Mueller’s team of lying to banks about his debts in order to obtain multi-million-dollar loans. He is preparing for the prosecution to subject him to an embarrassing dissection of his former lifestyle.

 

According to a list of about 500 exhibits that Mueller’s team filed to court, the prosecutors are prepared to wield photographs of a $21,000 wristwatch, bespoke suits and expensive homeware into which Manafort allegedly ploughed his money to hide it from the IRS.

 

(https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/29/paul-manafort-mueller-charges-court-trial-trump)

I find the 21 K watch expense particularly interesting as I write this in Thailand. Am I alone?

How much evidence do you need? 

And there is surely more.

Please Google sunk cost fallacy.

On 7/28/2018 at 3:12 AM, Kelsall said:

GDP 4.1%

Game, set, match.

Not so fast!

Obama had 8 quarterly GDP growth rates of 2% and more AND 5 around 4%+ AND 1 around 5%: http://fortune.com/2017/08/30/donald-trump-springfield-mo-3-gdp/

Why are you taking all of the hype of Trump without checking to see if what he says is true? Do you believe the car salesman who says that the price of the car will be higher tomorrow?

I only trust Nobel laureate economists. Here is one. https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trump-loses-trade-war-with-china-by-joseph-e--stiglitz-2018-07

Here is an excerpt:

I think Trump seems to be pretty accommodating to immigrants when they happen to be young, female. Hey, he even married them. The guy is either very dumb or so intent to get re-elected that he cannot see the incoherence between his actions and his policies. But, never mind, his base still likes him. He can do no wrong. Do as it tell you, but don't do as I do. 

I cannot speak freely, but I recall seeing a general (and officers) asking and using 6 ball girls (no boys) to retrieve and hand tennis balls over to them. This took place on a tennis court that was in a major army camp. Now that is entitlement. So, the bigger question is how prevalent is this and how much abuse occur? My guess is that these guys could excuse any behaviour to suit their needs. Btw, those girls were not the prettiest ones, but were fast and accurate. This is of great concern because this kind of behaviour could lead to sexual, physical, and emotional abuse as demonstrated here. 

The whole society is set up to make the young serve the elderly. If you are a pretty woman, you might need to do more than you really should or want to. But, it happens to some degree in many countries, but maybe (hopefully) just occasionally when a real a$$hole decides to be a ranked officer. However, cleaning gardens and such, for officers that have retired as well, that's an indication that this kind of abuse is rampant. What else do "servant soldiers" need to do to get their ranks?

If low oxygen is an issue, could they not pump oxygen into the location with a long enough cable pumping oxygen? Not sure how they could remove toxic gases though, unless they could try to suck the air back out, enabling air exchange.

Not sure if this was covered by anyone, but it was reported that volunteers had accidentally failed to take the water that was being pumped out away from the cave. Of course, the person in charge blamed the volunteers, not himself, for the mishap.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/984331/thailand-cave-rescue-football-team-trapped-Thamg-Luang

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Fine with me. I still think people that think it was OK to not do the one thing that could have realistically stopped 45 that aren't his fans have a moral responsibility to own up to what they personally did to help bring this American dark ages about. That's a first step and if you ain't willing to go there I can't see how people like that will be helpful in future. What did you do to prevent America from becoming fascist Daddy? Oh I voted for Jill Stein and help "trump" to win. Brilliant.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Did you read the know-it-all piece? It fits you to perfection.

You are trying to malign me t(anyone who disagrees with you) to make you look more intelligent than you really are. Egomaniacs do that. They bring down other people (inventing a storyline that make them look bad) and then continue living in a dream. 

Hey, stop being an egomaniac and a bully. They have pissed me off in the past. I don't like egomaniacs.

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I read it.Goodwin cherry picks polls.

If you want to read a serious polling analysis here it is. And if you don't the takeaway is that when voters are asked about which party they plan to vote for the democrats currently have a 5 point lead on average But if you ask them about using their vote to stop Trump the margin increases dramatically.

Deadweight Donald

"Polls show the president is an albatross on his party heading into November."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/polls-show-donald-trump-is-an-albatross-on-his-party-heading-into-november.html

 

And Goodwin's comment about the tax cuts , as though they were popular, is coming from an alternate reality.

"It’s been six months since President Donald Trump signed into law the Republican tax cuts. During that time, the measure appears to have become less popular — not more. The GOP’s big 2018 midterms sales pitch isn’t working out exactly how party leaders thought it would.

A RealClearPolitics average of tax law polling indicates that about 36.1 percent of Americans are on board with the tax measure and 43 percent are not, a nearly 7 percentage point difference."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/22/17492468/republican-tax-cut-law-poll

 

And Goodwin's belief that the Supreme Court won't undo abortion rights or gay marriage because of respect for precedence is a hope based on fantasy. Trump is going to continue to appoint hard right fanatics. They will  overturn both. Abortion rights may be closer to a 50-50 thing with the pubic, depending on how hard a ban they allow, but gay marriage is overwhelmingly popular in the USA. When that's overturned, that's going to anger people with gay friends and relations. Not to mention prominent gay people they admire.

 

Tax cuts. I wonder what those tariffs are going to cause. The rich don't care. Better get used to have 3 jobs to keep up with the Jones.

Trump might be an idiot, but the people behind him are not. Do not count those people as idiots. They know what Trump represent and can do. Trump has sided with the religious groups by supporting their behaviours and needs. That's all they want: to win the ideological war. In the MEANtime, the rest of the right love money and decadence to feed their ego. It is a weird mix, but so far it is working. It was, until the children story broke out. Trump backed down a little with the exe. order. Egomaniacs are pathological liars. They have learned to get out of an embarrassing situation all of their lives.

The problem is how the US government continues to meddle into other countries' business. I read 78 as I speak (source: RT, Going underground, investigative journalist). This HAS TO STOP. The world bank and the IMF,...  meddle also. It has happened for decades. Enough. Americans should not export their crap, exploit people and situations. Most of what is imported is religious-based or ideological -based. There is a financial component as well, of course. Hollywood is soft propaganda too. Watch Hollywood DC. No other nation in the world does this like the US. What they are doing STINKS. However, other nations are slowly fighting back. People are slowly getting what is going on. How many American movies involve guns, the military, or the CIA/FBI? Coincidence? How many are re-writing history? How many are showing dysfunctionality? Enough!

 The immigration issues in Europe was caused --by and large-- by the US meddling in the Middle East. Russians going into Afghanistan? That is different.

49 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Your solution is to lobby "decent public figures".  What is your selection criteria for choosing who to lobby, and how do you propose people go about this lobbying?

I said "decent public figures" who could make a difference. Arnold Schwartz. and Reagan are not whom I am think about, but I guess we could say that the Rep. used that strategy then. It is up to the left and the centre to imitate, I guess. The more decent will get solicited more. Social media to talking face to face. Use your imagination.

Quote

Nothing is preventing those interested in running for office from doing so.  Those uninterested are unlikely to be swayed by lobbying from strangers.

Not true. Maybe they are not as decent as they say they are then. If they cannot walk the talk then bye bye. If they are courted, they might oblige. 

Quote

 

My solution is for people to inform themselves and vote intelligently. 

I am sorry. That has been happened since the publication of the first newspaper and since schooling became obligatory. It is happening now and it has not changed. In fact, we could say that the evidence is that the situation is getting worse. Trump anyone?

Quote

My individual approach is to use forums such as this to inform and discuss.  I won't make much of an impact by myself, but if more people did this it could make a difference.

 

I know this is a reasonable approach, but has it worked? Read about perseverance bias. There is not a hope in hell you can convert most people to change their position. It would be tantamount to admitting that they are idiots for most of them.

Beside, how many people read this? At the same time, you could say the same about the way I go about this. I cannot compete with Bloomberg. I am hoping someone on social media will run with it. I will do my part and contacting whoever I feel is a decent human being. It is a wild shot in the dark, I admit. It is better than the status quo and hoping that people will educate themselves though, I think. 

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're not paying attention. I'm talking about the supreme court. I'm talking about the actual arrival of American style real deal fascism. Your naive POV presumes this can be reversed. Can Turkey be reversed? Yes, I feel more intense hostility to people trying to rationalize not trying to stop "trump" when we could (the election) than his deplorable actual supporters. You should know better. Instead you're living in some kind of fantasy land. It's probably TOO LATE now. Thanks for nothing Stein voters (and similar). 

And you know, the fact that people like you STILL don't get it, STILL don't get the mistake that was made (not stopping him when we could) makes it even worse. 

There are political mistakes and then there is toxic DENIAL. 

Moreover, please do read research on people who have a superiority complex. The know-it-all don't know it all. 

There are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. I am not a Trump fan and to describe me as being one is such a misreading that I wonder if you are not suffering perseverance bias. I am being polite.

43 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Your "solution" is to " change the system by decent public figures (who have not much to gain because they have enough fame and enough money and believe they do) to run for elections. "

 

There is nothing in the current system to prevent that.  There never has been.  How is that a solution?

That is true, but you missed the part where I asked citizens to lobby them. I am using the technique that the oligarchs are using. I wish solutions would be getting a more serious, more sincere, and respectful reading.

But, what are you proposing exactly, except using the imperfect systems that lead to the same outcome --or close to it-- every single time we elect a president. It has not worked and it will nto work. The systems are rotten to the core.

44 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're not paying attention. I'm talking about the supreme court. I'm talking about the actual arrival of American style real deal fascism. Your naive POV presumes this can be reversed. Can Turkey be reversed? Yes, I feel more intense hostility to people trying to rationalize not trying to stop "trump" when we could (the election) than his deplorable actual supporters. You should know better. Instead you're living in some kind of fantasy land. It's probably TOO LATE now. Thanks for nothing Stein voters (and similar). 

And you know, the fact that people like you STILL don't get it, STILL don't get the mistake that was made (not stopping him when we could) makes it even worse. 

There are political mistakes and then there is toxic DENIAL. 

I did not read past "naive". I am not here to get lectured. I am here to --at least-- get a dialogue going. Bye.

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I call total B.S.

You quote one sentence and you state that is TOTAL BS.

I call that TOTAL BS.

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you think the election of "trump" doesn't have massively dire consequences to the future of the USA, you simply aren't paying attention.

It does. It was the worst outcome, but it might be what is needed to change the whole system. The guy is so outrageously bad, people are getting frustrated. That's good, in some ways. The other kind (the mostly status quo democrats to which Clinton represents ) is a little better. Sanders would have been a  better choice. He might have been able to change a few things if they did not kill him. However, they cannot or will not drastically fix the structural problems. The system has benefited Bill Clinton and Hilary a lot. Why would they change it? Do they live in a normal house? Do they drive a normal car?

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There was only one rational choice in the last election for any decent American that would have PREVENTED that.

But, sadly, in presidential elections your vote only counts in SWING states.

That is under 10 states out of 50.

That is indeed a ROTTEN situation structurally. 

There is a structural problem and no one of the present parties are willing to change the systems because both are corrupt, by and large. So, you do agree with me. So, what I wrote was not total BS. Partial BS? LOL

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

An "everything is rotten" rant designed to generate apathy.  To what end?

To end the madness. I know about "perseverance bias". 

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

A multi-party system with two dominant parties is what we have.  Until the election system is changed, either by using run-offs when no party achieves an out-right majority, or using a ranked--choice voting system   https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/14/in-praise-of-ranked-choice-voting  it is what we are stuck with. 

No one is going to change the system. The status quo is the problem.

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

Voting for the least bad candidate is not appealing, but it is better than wasting votes.  

I understand and that is the rational thing to do, but if one is given a car that has no brakes and no steering wheel and one has a steering wheel, one should not agree to drive it.

I have offered a solution. The status quo is not a solution. Debate the solution. 

4 hours ago, bushdoctor said:

No, I’m refering to the calls for violence etc. that we’ve been seeing from the left. 

There has been violence from all sides, but you cannot expect someone to take blows to the head without someone else retaliating. There is provocation (who starts it) and retaliatory violence. They are not the same. Judges know that. The ones who starts it is more culpable. The one who defends oneself if less so. Grey matters.

Sucking innocent people into mortgages that they could not afford and repossessing their home is violence. Not prosecuting the people who did this is violence. In fact, they did not jail them, they gave them more money as punishment. Separating kids from their parents and then going to church on Sunday is an act of violence. Throwing people out of the country after they have been used and exploited (because that is what happens to illegal immigrants) is disgusting. Imposing wild tariffs to friendly nations and expecting no retaliation is an act of violence. Bombing innocent people is an act of violence. Lying is an act of violence. Sadly, violence invites violence. How would you deal with a despot, a tyrant? Ask politely not to kill you? 

Both parties and the whole system have been corrupted for a long time. That is plain obvious.

I think it is pretty obvious that BOTH parties have been corrupted by the oligarchs and the lobbyists. These groups give some money to BOTH parties. The system of two parties (right or wrong) is laughable for a democracy. It is a farce to be given only 2 choices. We know that grey matters. The real problem is the whole system is corrupt and laws/rules have been shaped to make it almost impossible to have balanced and fair laws and policies. They have -- in fact-- over time rewritten the constitution. Doesn't that remind you of something?

It does not matter whom you vote for. Even the best of people in both parties are crushed by the ideologues who are subject to the perseverance bias. Many are elected because they like the limelight.

The only chance we have is to change the system by decent public figures (who have not much to gain because they have enough fame and enough money and believe they do) to run for elections. Once they get in, they can try to clean up the system. There will be lots of resistance and lots of poor sportmanship, of course, but because of their proven record, they could win and could make a difference ultimately. Ideally we would have investigative journalists,  incisive directors,... (Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, Merrill Streep,...) willing to put their neck out. and change the system. Email them. 

The USA is not a democracy. Deal with it. It might be just as bad as another country you know of.

If you are going to criticize this,  be prepared to be kind and offer a solution. If you are and aren't prepared to be kind and offer a solution, you are a problem. We have enough problems.

40 minutes ago, bushdoctor said:

Of course it does. How does that relate to why they would want to see a president  finish his term? 

Wow! How many bush doctors does it take to screw a light bulb? A light bulb is an inanimate object. 

10 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

One for Trump and Trump supporters. This is how a man speaks, how an adult speaks, how a patriot speaks.

 

 

And this is the anithisis of that.

 

 

I am sure the CIA, the FBI, the military, and Hollywood have a lot of patriots, but maybe their patriotism tends sometimes to trump the truth, if it matters at all.

It took 10 years for Oliver Stone to tell the truth. Why? How many truths are not told? And, no, RT did not brainwash all of those Americans who are interviewed in this piece. If you believe, you are an idiot. Alumni learn to get to the truth by listening to all sources and then making decisions. based on logic and coherence of the evidence presented. Those who ignore inconvenient sources and perhaps inconvenient truths are likely going to be manipulated or lied to. 

However, today, it seems everyone say they know the truth. Everyone is a genius. Oh! But you are just joking! They should listen and read more than they should speak and write. I did. That is what intelligent people and alumni do.

Trump like all egomaniacs speaks a lot and says a lot of outrageous things to get attention. Well, okay, he tweets a lot. He is a businessman who got a 1 million dollar loan from his dad in his 20's and has been tested as having Grade 4 literacy abilities. He lies constantly. He sleeps with hookers while being married and he goes to church. He and his fans feel it is okay to do what they did to innocent children while they go to church every Sunday. How much evidence does one need to connect the dots? Cognitive dissonance and perseverance bias at its best. Should we trust all of what Trump and some of his supporters (those who have a vested interest in getting more) say?

Should we trust Hollywood, the military, and the CIA? Should we trust their truths? Should we trust Trump's truths? Should we trust your truths? 

On 6/28/2018 at 11:59 AM, atyclb said:

i have a friend from nyc that is a very competent physician and speaks in a similar way. it does not perturb me because i grew up in nyc.

We  are talking about public speaking and writing versus private. Many professionals are aware of both and often use both to talk to people according to whom they are talking to and according to the occasion.

Physicians are especially prone to using normal speaking to put people at ease. But, I am wrong again. Right? In the case of Trump, he uses the same level of speaking and writing regardless of the circumstance and the person he is with.

Quote

 

the literacy scale you refer to, does it make the absolute correlation with grade school levels or is the 4 - 11 approx scale its own scale? seems it is its own scale since youd expect jfk, obama, others highly educated to have a score at least past high school and into undergraduate university level.

 

Why don't you research " Flesch-Kincaid scale ". Again, depending on the circumstances people will use simpler words. phrases. They modulate. Furthermore, when people speak, people use -normally-- easier words since people do not have time to pause and reflect as people can when they write. 

i did say his genius comments need a grain of salt`  lots of successful people have gone belly up during their endeavors. i dont know exactly his net worth but it seems his lifestyle and personal commercial jet suggests he is a doing lot better financially then you or me.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. He got a 1 million dollar loan when he was in his 20's from his dad. Do some research. Many people would do very well, but he is such a genius he went into bankruptcy protection twice. Probably a lie to not pay what he owned to people, but I digress. He probably did not lose everything. But, everything is fine. Many people can go bankrupt. Not immigrants from Mexico or the Jones who lost their houses in 2008, but, hey, all is fine in America and Trump is the best man. Keep believing.

As to my credentials, I am a genius. LOL I can spell and write better than Trump and you. I even capitalize and punctuate my writing properly! You? Not. But, I have a feeling that saying I am genius will not cut the mustard with you. Right? But, you do believe Trump when he says it even though the preponderance of evidence show the opposite. Why is he getting all of the breaks? He can do no wrong? He sleeps with hookers and tries to pay them off. That's fine too. What will it take to break your perseverance bias? Keep believing.

Excerpt:

Quote

"Tariffs are nothing more than a tax on consumers. President Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs will add up to $600 to the cost of a new car - and could force thousands to lose their jobs in the beer business."

He goes on to say that the cost of beer will go higher too (and, of course, these are just a few examples of what will happen.

So, Trump/the GOP lowers tax for the multinationals --they did not pay-- to force them to come home (to pay employees shitty money since it can be done for next to nothing in China) because we have an unemployment rate problem even though we have a 5% unemployment rate (which all economists see as the best one can have) and now he increases taxes on average folks. AND, some people need 2 jobs to make ends meet. Inflation will eat away at all of those salary increases too. People will have to lower their spending. Recession is coming. Right on time: 1989 (Black Monday/S&L crisis (1)) > 1997 (Dot Com) > 2008 > 2018.  It is worth noting that the problems that banks and insurance companies 

I have written on persistence bias before. I don't think that one more piece of evidence is going to put a dent on their belief system, but when you persevere in defending an egomaniac, illiterate, twice-bankrupt person who got 1 million dollars in his 20's, ...

Btw, I do not support the Democrats either. Both parties are corrupt and have been corrupt by big multinationals, the military complex, arm lobby, protestant religious fanatics, and the elite for a long time under all administrations. They try hard to make it look like your vote matters, but it doesn't. 

Quote

 

(1) The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s (commonly dubbed the S&L crisis) was the failure of 1,043 out of the 3,234 savings and loan associations in the United States from 1986 to 1995: the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation (FSLIC) closed or otherwise resolved 296 institutions from 1986 to 1989 and the Resolution Trust Corporation (RTC) closed or otherwise resolved 747 institutions from 1989 to 1995.^[1]

 

In 1979, the Federal Reserve System of the United States raised the discount rate that it charged its member banks from 9.5% to 12% in an effort to reduce inflation. The building or savings and loans associations (S&Ls) had issued long-term loans at fixed interest rates that were lower than the interest rate at which they could borrow. 

 

DEJA VOUS all over again. I see a pattern. Do you?

4 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

i responded already. me trying desperately is your subjective perception/intepretation

 

calling trump my god is comic relief

 

i have never found his communication style hard to understand though he is far from being the most eloquent speaker

 

why does he need the grammar police? he is not nominated for any nobel prizes in literature

 

 

This should seal the deal.  So, do what is honourable here and admit that we are right. Trump has --at best-- Grade 4 literacy skills, but he says he is a genius. There is difference between Nobel-like literacy and Grade 4. What has he invented? Nothing. He got 1 million dollars from his dad and became successful. Wow! What an accomplishment! Well, he went into bankruptcy a couple of times. Imagine! How stupid one can be! Some people could construe that as signs that he is a genius. He says so. So, he must be. Right? LOL Maybe you do not find him hard to understand, but his constant tangents are annoying and so are his constant unfinished sentences and as this video shows all of the signs that he is illiterate. Dig a little more and there are many analysts who seem to agree. Do you have their PhDs? What do you have? Your opinion with zero supporting details and evidence. Who will we believe? Case closed.