JestSetter

Thanks for the help for those who did provided constructive support.

I did follow the step 1 to the letter and used that March date that was advised I use, but I got a message to go see immigration in person. 

4 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Widening the footing is just a logic idea you have but wide strips, standard strips, rafts, pads and piles all have their own criteria.

Piles are used for small buildings on really bad loose ground or very heavy high rise that will just puncture tbrough good ground.

Then there are other soil types that are not very loadbearing but still stable and unlikely to wash away, then you design a raft to float and act as one.

Rafts rarely used here, again they are obsessed with flooding and lifting everything up yet rafts are perfect here.

Pads can be used on typical good bearing soils and clays which are found in the top 2m of depth and save a lot of money agin a piling outfit.

 

Your start is a soil test, and that normally can be done with a jcb. Three test pits, after ten minutes standing watching an engineer can see the soil structure, job done. Augering a soil core can be doone if you see the jcb is diggi g through sand. Augering 20tests all over an 80m2 footing is overkill i.m.o

Thanks. Very helpful.

jcb?

20 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

What part of 90 DAYS AFTER YOU LAST  ARRIVED IN THAILAND  do you not understand?

Well, YOU added the word "last". That I can understand! Details! Details! So, if your new car has a faulty break, it is the driver that is at fault for hitting the tree? Strange reaction!

Thank you all for the advices. Soil test is next week and I will try to talk to an engineer. I must say I am at a loss as to where I can find one as the one I had left after the plans where made and the permitting took place.  Would the permit office have a list of engineers available?

Last question: I am getting quotes for twelve 8 meters long piles (20 or so cm wide) for 75 K B. including everything, but excluding soil testing (15 K for one hole). I am not sure if extending the foundation by, say, 2 meters around the house ( about 60 m2) is cheaper by a significant number. Any thoughts?

First time doing the online reporting ever, but did a few visa runs and trips before getting an extension of the O visa prior to expiry. So I have several arrival dates to Thailand. The last one would be a visa run dated 26 march that allowed a stay to 23 June (time when I did the extension of the visa). I put "others" for flight numbers and such. The only other plausible date would be the one when I arrived to Thailand by airplane more than 1 year ago, getting the original O visa after doing a trip to Vietnam. 

It seems to me that extending the concrete foundation outwards (in a continuous manner with rebars, of course) should be a much more efficient way to stabilize or minimize settling than piles (if surface tension/friction are in question), if, of course, roof water is drained properly and there is not a river passing under the house, among other issues, like adding more weight, especially on one side of a house by adding another room,....

Do you think that it would be a better roi than piles (unless those piles are known to be touching terra ferma)? Would it make sense to make the "skirts" lighter as well? 

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

For a house, I would think there is virtually no difference between driven and screwed piles as far as load bearing is concerned. 

In reactive soil, you are not relying of foundation surface are  to support the structure - you are relying of the piles. 

As you seem to have a number of concerns, I would suggest hiring a competent architect or engineer to put your worries at rest.  

Thanks for the explanation. Fascinating.

I will. Thanks.

This is my last question. I am trying to understand the physics behind those concrete piles. I am just curious. 

So, If my eyes are not failing me, even though those concrete piles do not seem to be shaped like nails, but more like elongated rectangular prisms, the soil around them would still exert enough friction to hug the surface of the pile after the hole has been made. Is this correct?

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

At the correct surface area driven to the right depth sufficient to support your house. 

I was looking for a formula. 

I wonder what is most effective beside pile end-bearing piles and helical piles. Is increasing the surface area out of concrete (increasing the surface tension) of the foundation area outside the area of the house also effective in preventing settling, cracks,...?

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Most driven piles in Thailand are "friction piles" which means they are not driven to rock but driven to sufficient depth that the relies on the friction between pile and below ground material being able to support the down force of the structure. Usually the local "pile driving" contractor has the experience in the area to give advice on depth, as for the number of piles that really depends on the size of the building - if in doubt on the number, you should consult an engineer. 

Usually the piles will end up at various heights above ground, these are then cut off to the same level and steel reinforced pile caps poured to a common height to suit. 

That's interesting! They rely on friction. I wonder how much friction they can "create".

11 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Here is an option ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecZp53Evj1k   used them for our carport.

 

Across the road I saw them use 20M piles (Bangkok) ... they used the drill, tube and pour concrete method.

 

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. These are called helical piles. That seems like a smart technology. But I am told they are expensive. I will email them and find out.

The company you find that uses helical piles is in BKK. Now, the BIG issue is that I don't live in BKK, but Chiang Mai. Is there someone who has the machine to put this into the soil here? I will email them. Thank you.

Addendum: A conversation with the man that does the piling (and the soil testing) seems to indicate that a soil sample is needed even if the piles hit the bottom rock. Assuming that the piles are connected at the foundation level and that unevenness of the rock is dealt with, I am surprised that they still need to test the soil. I hypothesize that perhaps the lateral motion of the pile needs to be controlled. By knowing the "tension"  that the soil will impart on the piles (laterally) they will know the shape and diameter size of the piles to be used. Is that what it is?

The land we have is near a stream (about 30 m.) and rice paddies are about 20 m. away. I went to visit a Thai owner of a restaurant/inn that is 2 level high (and whose property also is flanked by a canal) and that is about 500 m away. He decided to use piles and recommended we did too. He suggested not to do a soil sample as he figured it would most likely reveal that we would need piles as our house has 2 levels too. We would save 15000 B. He recommended to use 12 of them for a 80 m2 area, which seems to coincide with the number of footings. We do not know where the rock is in our land, but he remembered his being about 8 m. long. Looks like the cost for piling 12 piles would be around 100 K. 

If you had to use piles, can you please share your story and tell us the price to put them in.

I never had to do this, but I have a few question related to the operation when the solid ground below happens to be uneven. Do they fill the hole to to even it out? With what? gravel? Concrete/cement? There are different shapes of piles too. Not sure why? How are the piles tied in to the foundation slab? We are told that they come in set lengths. Do they cut the lengths of those? Do those prefab piles have rebars in then? What type of concrete grade?

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I don't know of anyone using, or selling bubblewrap as insulation

True. Neither do I. Its purpose is not heat insulation, it is soundproofing. I am trying to assess if it would do the trick.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

I have done it, thermal bridging is not a factor. It also insulates against noise.

Oh! Fantastic news. Could you please tell me how they do it. 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

Not automatically.

True. Mass is important for some frequencies and some situations and, as I mentioned, I have planes flying by and chickens and dogs and birds. Not sure which is worse! Oh! I forgot the local district PA blarring in the early part of the morning from time to time.  I did not mention that my living quarters and bedrooms are on the 2nd floor though. So, I do not have a full level and several layers of material like concrete and such to "block" the noise. (The bottom layer will be used and designed for 2 condo-like units for rental/Airbnb perhaps. But, I am using this website (https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproof-ceilings/adding-green-glue-to-ceiling-assembly/) as a reference. I think you might find it interesting. I wonder how greenglue behaves in high temperature. Does it lose its property? Maybe one would need to seal the ends of the boards to maintain its elasticity/stickiness.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

We have no screws that can let water in, the guarantee is 12 and 30 years, overall price is about the same as tile, installation for a little under 500 sq meters was 3 days, impossible with tile.

Good point about the installation time and of course the trusses do not need to be so expensive since the sheets are cheaper and lighter. Of course, adding spray foam would add to the weight a little. It all depends how thick that layers would be and how heavy some tiles are. 

You have no screws that can let water in? Did you cover them with something? Do you have solar panels? How did you manage that? It sounds interesting.

We are told (know) that concrete stores energy more than metal, but we also know that rain on metalsheet makes noise. Not sure how effective the bubble wrapping is at lowering the noise, but it should help a little.

I also know that it cost more to spray or insulate the 2 slopes of the roof than the smaller surface area of the roof floor. If one were to insulate the 2 slopes, they would need to make sure than the heat NEVER infiltrates inside the roof, which might be costlier and heavier than if you did at the roof floor or into the drop ceiling area. I know they use a drop ceiling here in LOS. I am not clear as to how one can put (fibreglass) insulation --and enough of it-- inside the drop ceiling area, preventing thermal bridging of the metal trusses into the living space. I also need to insulate the living area from noise (planes, dogs, birds,...) and the roof would be the weak link considering I plan to have double walls and a room-within-a-room set up for the bedroom.The insulation in the roof would help, but noise insulation also requires mass.  I am not so concerned about noise during the day as I can cover it with music. Our ears are less sensitive during the day as well.

It also seems to me that the metal sheet looks cheap, but concrete tiles might be more expensive. The tiles are not made out of asbestos. Right? The concrete tiles are more durable in the event of hail as well and last longer. Not sure which leaks the most, but I have friends that have leaks with concrete tiles. I have no information about leakage with metal sheet although I hear that in some set up the rubber of the screw can harden and let water in. warranty of Bluescope is 12 years for some of their cheaper product to 20, but the cost is quite high then. Still, if the insulation is put in the roof of the floor is sufficient and no thermal bridging can occur from the metal trusses, then concrete tiles might be okay. I am concerned about leaks, but this might be an installation issue.

Your thoughts?

PS: I could not find a threat that specifically talked about this, but I am sure that this has been broached in the past. If you do know of a thread, please let me know so as to avoid duplication. 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

They will only ever do soil tests if you insist, I did, they did.

This should be automatic. It is like going into an autobody shop and asking for a repair. You would expect they would check the alignment, if the accident was a substantial one.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

Did you actually have an engineer?  They did it that way because they always do it that way.

I had an engineer. True, and no one is ever telling them not to for fear of hurting their feelings.

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

That is why we used AAC.

 

They have never used it and it needs special equipment (that they don't have) to put them in.

Using AAC: I see them being used. I guess it depends on the architect,... The developer I know has built 3 big building. He prefers the bricks, but is it because the general contractor has relationships with bricklayer company and the the brick company, getting a nice cut VS AAC from Homepro. But, maybe they know something we don't know. I like the AAC, if I believe the literature from the blocks I saw in Homemall.

I just learned that the helical screws are 3 x more expensive, but then I thought that the traditional way they would be pouring concrete into the bore holes.Apparently they just use prefab concrete posts. 

Thanks for your comment.

I think the most common mistakes are caused by the general population not wanting to upset the builder's ego. In this type of culture, the builder is usually not made aware of issues (as mentioned in an earlier post) and so how can he improve? It is a cultural issue that create all of these problems. 

One should add the dire issue of designing houses with fung shwei in mind which interferes with the notions of shielding the living spaces from the hot (west/south) side of the house.

The use of Burmese workers probably not probably trained does not help matter as well, but then that is probably why the houses are quite cheap here.

The use of concrete roof tiles might be an issue, esp. without the use of insulation, as they trap heat. I live in a 20 y. old house and it has no insulation and no venting. I see more houses with rafter vents and the usual gable vents though. Btw, I don't get the idea of putting the insulation on the internal slopes of the roof when the ground of the "attic" is a smaller area. At the same time, I am not sure how they are going to put the insulation (the fibreglass) inside the drop ceiling area if it happens to be heavier than the ceiling can bear.

 I was surprised to have the engineer/builder skip the soil bore hole test on a piece of land that has 2 sides close to streams (20 m,), albeit small.

I was surprised that the eng, chose a slab foundation (with several footings just a few meters deep). I live in a zone where there is a lot of clay soil and no sand (mountain). I read it might be a good idea to use helical piles. Some builders recommend deeper footings, but they seem to rely (in the best of cases) on past experience, no soil tests. I also hear that they even go to the rock.

I am surprised that they still use concrete piles, not the helical screw pile that seems faster to put in. It seems a robust system. But, my house is 2 stories (80m2). Still, lighter metal sheet. Not sure if the helical piles are a good idea. 

I agree with many about the problems with the lack of or improper venting and traps.

The bricklaying is a bit suspect at times.

I hope the message is loud and clear. Will they get it though?

Was told that if my stairway is near my bedroom it will be a bad omen? Was told that if there are 2 doors in a house (a front one and a back one, money will vanish.) No wonder why Thai houses are so poorly laid out. The Chinese fung shwei (but not just this) is holding back this country as some other backward customs here and else where. Correlation is not causation. Is there a Thai expression for this.

Btw, many expats from the USA could go back to the USA if there was a medicare system. Even the Koch brothers' study indicates that money would be SAVED. Other research shows the same and peg the saving to up to 17 trillions over a decade. No matter what the amount of saving is many US citizens could go back and live comfortably in the USA. It is sad to see that so many voters are being lied to, but the lobbyists are very powerful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mseqVTXVbHs&feature=youtu.be And, of course, campaign contributions (from insurance companies and others) aren't bribes! Is giving campaign contributions bribing an elected official a crime?

Oh! No! 450000 B. A month! Well! As others have mentioned, it all depends. I personally don't trust the food offered in Thai restaurants. If it is not MSG, it is sugar or cheap oil used to fry that  <fill in the blank>. If you want to play golf every 2 days, the 45 K is not going to do, although they are cheap courses too. My wife and I can easily get by with 30 K. but we don't often eat out and almost never golf. Our rent is 14K for a 3 br. 2 bath, house in a very secure moobaan. I do not trust filling surveys of this nature considering who is at the helm.

At the same time, there is corruption in the USA too (which does not make this story any more acceptable in any way, of course). It is called campaign contributions that insurance companies and others use to get what they want from politicians. There are tens of millions of people (that would include children and disabled children) in the USA who cannot afford basic medical assistance when in fact if there was a national medicare system they could, AND billions if not trillions over a decade could be saved. It is mindboggling that some voters are being lied to. Here is the proof that a medicare system WOULD SAVE money: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mseqVTXVbHs&feature=youtu.be

Oh! No! 450000 B. A month! Well! As others have mentioned, it all depends. I personally don't trust the food offered in Thai restaurants. If it is not MSG, it is sugar or cheap oil used to fry that  <fill in the blank>. If you want to play golf every 2 days, the 45 K is not going to do, although they are cheap courses too. My wife and I can easily get by with 30 K. but we don't often eat out and almost never golf. Our rent is 14K for a 3 br. 2 bath, house in a very secure moobaan. I do not trust filling surveys of this nature considering who is at the helm.

If I were a despot --benevolent or not-- I would stage a drone attack or something like it. Then, I could claim terrorists are attacking the country and beef up security even more on all fronts. Maybe even build walls around the country. And, of course, I could then use all of those arms I am making and wage wars against the most convenient bad guys of the jour to advance some economic policy as well. Mmmm! Sounds familiar. No?