Leaver

8 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I like to refer to Thailand as the land of the wasted day.

 

Every single task here (ones that would take 5 minutes back in Farangland) take a full day.

 

Open a bank account, lose a day.  Register your car, lose a day. Sell your vehicle, lose a day.  Go to the land office, lose a day.....And so on....

Fortunately, Thailand is not the land of a wasted night. 

On 1/28/2023 at 1:07 PM, jak2002003 said:

Can they smuggle out the street dogs? 

No need to smuggle them out.  They have been breeding them up over covid, waiting for the Chinese to return. 

20 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Possible - I never go near the sea or deep fresh water.

Best stay away for high level balconies as well. 

On 1/26/2023 at 3:49 AM, ezzra said:

Why are the Chinese tourist arrival being any different from the arrival of many thousands of Non Chinese tourist where there were no announcements regarding those tourists 'arrival'?...

It might have something to do with submarines. 

14 hours ago, mikebell said:

Nurse S-i-L had her car stolen. Culprit was captured by family members. I drove them to Dong Tan cop shop; fat sergeant refused to act until payment of 10K.  Nurse paid a bank loan for 4 years despite not having a car.  Female culprit had done this twice before.

Why didn't she pay the 10k? 

1 hour ago, PJ71 said:

My adorable Pits don't need Benzo's, they're mellow.

 

I need them to deal with Thai bureaucracy.

Why is that?  You don't live here? 

3 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

And if many ears ago the French had been successful in annexing Thailand we would have to speak French to get our visa extensions

And if the French many years ago had been successful in annexing Thailand we would be doing our visa extensions in French

Life is full of what ifs

The French tried that in Vietnam and it didn't go so well for them, but yes, the Thai's probably would have offered several provinces as a peace offering and lost their land. 

The Thai's are brave fighting drunk tourists, but history shows not so brave on the battlefield. 

9 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Banks........hmmmm

 

I have quite a lot money in a standard Bangkok Bank account.

 

I requested a FCD account, they asked for COR, i said i want to close my account and remove all my money.

 

Guess what, manager came out and sorted out FCD account with COR.

 

 

Aren't you under 50 years of age, so the manager knew you didn't need Bangkok Bank for visa purposes. 

Would it have worked if you were over 50? 

36 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

It still doesn't alter the fact that us "native English speakers" are fortunate people and expecting everyone to speak "our language" in their country is somewhat arrogant.

Well, if the result of World War 2 was different, we would all be speaking German or Russian, if we would be lucky to be here at all. 

Which would you prefer? 

2 hours ago, Screaming said:

So true, condos in Thailand are terrible investments and continue to depreciate year after year after year. The Thais do not maintain their buildings or their wives.

I think they depreciate more from the oversupply here rather than the lack of maintenance, but either way, they lose value. 

25 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

I think the term you're looking for is 'small money'

condos here are cheap if you have any sort cash stacked

and owning beats renting.

That would be true of a shoe box in Nirun or similar, but anything worth living in is over priced here, despite oversupply, and hence, cheap rent.  I did the math some time ago, even posted an example on here.  

Basically, put around 4 million in a fund back home and it more than covers the rent here on the exact same property in the exact same block, with no ongoing property expenses, with money left over each month, and you funds are at call.  

Tie that money up in a property here and you have imprisoned yourself and lost use of that money unless at a fire sale and a big loss.  

Factor in how many more years one is expected to live, because for "owning to beat renting" you have to live X amount of years for the monthly rent payments to overtake the purchase price, and also consider you leave a headache to your kids upon your demise, and it's a not only a no brainer, but it make no economic sense.  

Just on the point of one's estate, the common theme is "when I die the missus can have it."  If a property can't sell, and the missus moves home, what exactly are people leaving behind except bills to pay?      

The saying "rent is dead money" is not true in Pattaya / Thailand.

11 hours ago, newnative said:

A number of the 7-11s in the north Pattaya area where my partner and I were living at the time closed down.  There was just too much supply and not enough demand from local residents and domestic tourists to support all of them. 

So, you saw first hand how supply and demand in the retail space works, yet, you refute if they built another one or two shopping malls here that it would effect the profits of the shops across all the malls.

To counter act your continual contradiction on this point, you put forward your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, and when it comes to retail, I agree with it, but where we disagree is where you say no shops will close in the other malls because there's plenty of demand to go around, yet, you have seen first hand 7/11's close due to lower demand.  Of course, covid played a big part in this, but say three more 7/11's opened in your area before covid, it's ridiculous to say the profits of the other 7/11's will not be affected by their opening. 

Basically, if you build more 7/11's, the demand for each 7/11 will be lower.  Yes, rocket science, I know.   

Build more shopping malls, and there's a big one right in the middle of Central Pattaya already planned, and guess what, you spread the demand out, causing it to be lower for all. 

Using your "survival of the fittest" economic theory, say the new mall is so big, so nice, so shiny, that it doesn't have gold plated public toilets, it has platinum plated public toilets, hence all the "demand" now goes to the new mall. 

You are happy because it proves your theory correct on this forum that the fittest survive, not that I disagreed with it, but now there's an empty shopping mall that's falling into disrepair. 

Your argument then is, see, Pattaya is thriving so much it can support another shopping mall, which is of course wrong, because one shopping mall is now a ghost town. 

Your argument is then, well, the old mall should compete and install platinum public toilets as well, but what you fail to realize is the demand is still the same.  The new mall took 100% of the customers because they had platinum toilets, so to compete, the old mall installed them as well and got back a percentage of customers, but the total amount of customers still only equals 100%, and their numbers never changed.

Your argument then turns to future growth of Pattaya City, and once again I am in some agreement with you, however, let's approve the new mall when the demand is at a level to justify it, but it doesn't work that way in Thailand.

Now, your favorite topic is residential property, because you are a property flipper.  Those new condo blocks being build are like all the 7/11's in your area.  Just not enough demand for them all to survive.  In the case of the condo's, just not enough demand in the property market that properties hold their value as these new builds come onto the market, and guess what, more are starting construction on others, and more are planned for future construction. 

Your argument is, the platinum toilets in the condo's of the new block will see these condo's sell well, but you don't comment on the condo's down the road that don't sell because they don't have platinum toilets.  Once again, you suggest there's enough demand for a healthy Pattaya property market that all will sell, and I disagree with this, because as I type, there are already thousands of properties on the market here, as there was pre covid, so it's not a something caused by covid. 

At some point, there is market saturation, and in regards to property here, I would say it's well over that point, as can be seen with the time on market here.  People just can't sell. 

So next time you want to preach the Pattaya property market to those that refuse to convert, think about what happened to the 7/11's in your area, and how you are trying to sell their fate to those on this forum. 

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Hotels (those that remained open)  were substantially lower as they struggled to have any customers beyond the Covid refugees.... beer bars were also cutting prices. Not sure it went far beyond that... some of the cheap eating places for farangs maybe, recall Robin Hood having some deals. 

Residential rents lowered considerably.  It was the great covid rent reshuffle / renegotiation here. 

6 hours ago, newnative said:

Personal observations have their place, of course. 

Have you personally observed the amount of properties on the market here, and all the new construction?  I posted a link to one wesite that have over 500 condo's for sale, and that's just one website.  Did you personally observe the website? 

Thousands on the market, with more and more being built, and you want to say Pattaya has a healthy property market.  Laughable.    

6 hours ago, newnative said:

I think hard statistics can be meaningful.  Less than 500,000 international tourists in 2021.  About 11 million in 2022.  531 billion baht spent in Thailand by tourists from one country in 2019.  Both stats are meaningful, in my opinion. 

They are only meaningful if they are accurate and can be relied up.

As the other member said, and to which you agreed, personal observations have their place, and I would suggest, they come from people "on the ground" and not from a government agency or association with an agenda.

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Pattaya doesn't follow normal demand and supply principles, one poor performing bar sells to a poor sucker who wants to live the dream of minging bar ownership and bar girl girlfriend, they run out of money and sell to the next sucker and so it continues, that's why there is oversupply of bars, same story Indian restaurants now

I concur. 

Many are propped up with funds from abroad. 

The lights are on, but they run at a loss. 

I think "poor suckers" will be in short supply in the future.  Not like in the past.  Time will tell. 

4 hours ago, Seppius said:

That picture is from 2018, the beach has been expanded since then

 

 

Wasn't Pattaya booming in 2018? 

4 hours ago, Skallywag said:

According to BKK post, February 6th is when the first Chinese tour groups are coming.  Likely those hotels are getting ready. 

Have you not seen any activity at the closed hotels near you that cater to the tour groups?

There's no room for them on the 6th Feb.  Pattaya is already "operating at capacity." 

18 hours ago, newnative said:

I have been 'vocal' that supply and demand will eventually sort things out if there is too much of this and too little of that. 

Your survival of the fittest in relation to supply and demand here doesn't work. 

Normal market forces do not function as they should in Pattaya.  If they did, all of those "hobby bars" would be closed.  How would the city of Pattaya look then, with shuttered building after shuttered building along many streets?

There's no guarantee this doesn't happen in the next 5 years or so as dreamers become thin on the ground.

18 hours ago, newnative said:

I have tried to explain to Leaver why the number of studio condos for sale matters not a whit when I am selling a 2 bedroom condo, also without success. 

Perhaps you could try to explain it to the guy trying to sell his studio condo, I'm sure it matters more than a whit to him. 

What advice do you have for him, other than to offer it at 500k baht, accept a loss, and walk away?  

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Quite a contrast to what the tourist associations are saying. Who to believe? Real people or corrupt officials with an agenda? 

Exactly. 

You have two opposing threads themes.  One saying how Pattaya is at capacity, the other saying my restaurant is far from capacity, and neither are many others. 

Perhaps time will reveal the truth, but thinking back to 2019, things were not so great for many businesses here, add to that the Tree Town complex, and more staff than customers can only be sustained for so long. 

10 hours ago, kinyara said:

s she really saying something that contradicts officialdom ?  What she said, " Many of the restaurants yet to recover are seafood restaurants that are dependent on the Chinese ". If you are catering to a market that hasn't been back until now it's hardly surprising you are yet to see a recovery.

How can this be, if Pattaya is "operating to capacity?" 

Someone is not telling the truth. 

If the Chinese are not back in full swing, that the thread "Pattaya is operating to capacity" is BS, and if it is BS, the lady restaurant owner is correct and she is not busy.

If the thread "Pattaya is operating at capacity" is correct, then why isn't her restaurant busy like before?

10 hours ago, kinyara said:

What it does seem to contradict in this lady's case is the view expressed by the likes of Leaver that the Chinese are  just Walking Street gawpers who don't actually patronise businesses on the street, in her case she is confirming they were/are her main customers. She is of course a Thai business owner who her about to arrive Chinese customers will be paying in Thailand with money brought into Thailand, an additional example that goes against the grain of those that are in denial regarding the spending patterns of the overall Chinese market. 

It's well know the Chinese tour groups bargain down the prices to rock bottom.  Some baht is better than no baht. 

The Chinese also own many businesses here, including properties, boats, buses etc.  In this case, very little of the money makes it to Thailand.

I didn't invent the term "zero baht tourism."  If there is / was no truth to it, why was there a big crack down on it years ago, with conviscation of assets etc? 

Are you suggesting "zero baht tourism" is fake news, a myth, a lie, never happened and doesn't happen? 

36 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

Sorry, you're chosen specialist subjects are 'car accident sleuth' and 'pit bull' expert.

Other than trolling me, what are your specialist subjects? 

34 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You're the expert, you tell me.

Never had the need for that medication.  Are you addicted to it? 

If you are just looking for someone to stand in the queue for you, and no more, perhaps have a look at AirTasker. 

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I guess you haven't tried to get a seat in many of the better walking street bars lately. They are generally full or close to it. Last night I needed to sit near the door in pinup until someone left from a better seat. There was a competition between me and a Korean to grab the newly vacated seat but I won. XS was likewise full and I had to wait for a seat to open up. In Dollhouse downstairs I had to sit up against the dance floor on a stool which my back doesn't like.

I only go to Walking Street every few weeks or so, and only for a few hours.  I prefer LK Metro for gogo's.  I usually frequent Walking Street more often when I have friends here on holidays. 

I accept what you say that some select gogo's are busy, as these were your observations, but there are a lot of businesses down there.  What about the big nightclubs?  We have already heard from a restaurant owner in another thread that things aren't great. 

Once again, pre covid, 2019, LK Metro and Soi Baukhao were already taking customers away from Walking Street.  Why would that change in 2023, and I mean customers spending money inside a business, not walking along taking photos. 

5 hours ago, PJ71 said:

So you can't afford to buy - thought so.

I don't buy what I can't truly own.  Nothing to do with affordability. 

In any case, it's not even a sound investment.  The purchase price makes more money for me back at home than the cost of rent here, with some left over.  No repairs, maintenance, fees, taxes etc, and the freedom to move at any time. 

The saying "rent is dead money" is not applicable in Pattaya / Thailand.