Thaindrew
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39 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)
1.Taxable Person
Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.
This below is the 'big one' and what worries me because of 'Thai Interpretation' by Thai Government Employees of the Rules and Regulations (example - Immigration Officers from Provice to Province).
Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :
- income from personal services rendered to employers;
- income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
- income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
- income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
- income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
- income from liberal professions;
- income from construction and other contracts of work;
- income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.
I cannot find anything on the Thai Revenue Department website that specifically covers foreign sourced funds, and when they are or are not assessable income.
Until the Thai Govt clearly states that the funds I bring into Thailand from my personal savings/investments in Australia are not subject to their taxation obligations, because they were already taxed or tax exempt in Australia, then this is a problem that I need to plan for going ahead as an Expat living in Thailand. It would be impossible for me to prove, to the satisfacytion of an arrogant Thai Revenue Officer who is being poushed to 'get more money', that my super fund has taxed my earnings - the taxes are paid across the whole fund, not at the individual account level.
for a while its going to be the case that we will bring the minimum amount of money into Thailand as possible to live to minimise tax exposure based on the statement "the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand". Over time how RD apply the rules will become more known in terms of offsets / allowances, how they deal with inbound funds for property purposes etc.
At least, at this stage, they aren't proposing to tax all global income, otherwise there may way be an exodus
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10 minutes ago, RafPinto said:
No again:
You do not have to be retired. Can be done from age 50.
Can be retirement income or rental income, dividends etc.
Plus you have the option of income of 40K$ plus investing 250$ in real estate here. Either a condo or house on a 30 year lease for the land.
RETIREES AGED 50 YEARS AND OLDER WHO HAVE AN ANNUAL PENSION OR STABLE PASSIVE INCOME
you have to be retired for the wealthy pensioner LTR and thats the only one you can do $40K plus $250K
Global citizen need the $500K invested
Work from Thailand LTR need to work for a company with turnover of $150M over 3 years thats limiting factor to many
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4 minutes ago, RafPinto said:
Wrong: if you go for the "wealthy pensioner visa: either 80k$ a year or 40k$ a year but must have for example a property here for at least 250k$
Can also be a house if you have a "30year lease on it"
$80K is a fairly hefty pension to be getting but not impossible for sure. But you also need to be retired for 2 years to apply as you need to show two years passive income at that level and I am about to retire.
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14 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:Good, now talk about the lack of $ that will flood into Thailand with these new proposed tax changes, which will impact the central banks ability to control the THB
its already sliding .....
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8 minutes ago, RafPinto said:
You can't see the benefits?
A lump sum for a 10 year visa at 50,000Baht including multi re-entry permits.
Against:
10x1900 Baht visa renewal = 19000Baht
10x1000 Baht re-entry = 10000Baht (presuming it is a 1 re-entry permit only).
10x500 Baht taxi to and from airport (my case)= 5000Baht
Bank fee for statements: let's say 200x10=2000
Total expenses= 36000Baht
Interest at 1% on 800k= 8000Baht
8000x10=80,000Baht
TOTAL=80.000-36000 Baht expenses
44.000BAHT PLUS
LTR:
One off payment of 50,000Baht
Withdraw your 800k
Invested at 8%= 64000x10= 640000 baht
Against:
LTR: 50000-10(64000)= 590000 BAHT plus in your bank
LTR against one year visa:
590000-44000= 546000
I am not even talking about multi-entry fee.
Not talking of cost to visit your bank yearly for the paperwork.
Not talking about using an agent.Not talking about 3 monthly reports.
Not talking about taking passport picturesand and and
For me, It was a no brainer to apply for the LTR.
LTR is a good option, but I find I can qualify for each of them apart from one sticking point in each ... like work for a company turning over $150M in 3 years ... or having $500K assets but you cannot include your villa as you cannot legally own the land ..... which version did you manage to get?
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6 minutes ago, Ricardo said:I believe that you're mistaken about that ... my UK Old-Age-Allowance definitely forms part of my taxable UK-arising income, or I wouldn't need to be making an annual-return to HMRC, and paying a trivial amount of UK-tax, every year. My two minor private-pensions would not be sufficient to take me above the (currently frozen) Personal-Allowance.
Or by "Taxed Pension " do you mean something other-than the regular Old-Age-Allowance ?
pensions are taxable in the UK but with a threshold, the problem is that the Thai threshold is much lower at 150,000 Baht so you could be assessed for tax in the Uk and pay little or even no tax in the UK, but that means that Thailand could claim the difference as you couldn't prove you've paid tax on all if it based on their threshold - its going to depend on if they use "assessed for tax" or "paid tax" in their considerations.
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18 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:Interesting point. If we bail on Thailand for tax purposes 180 days , could we send our gains to wives/girlfriends here in Thailand to avoid taxation? So many questions—so little time.
"gifts" to spouse are listed by the RD as tax free for up to 20M Baht, not clear if thats also changing under the new rules or if that tax free to the sender and the receiver
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19 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:The big difference is with the Elite Visa you are paying 900K for the Visa & so it's no longer your money (I believe you can purchase it without even bringing money into Thailand), but with the LTR you may need to bring in $250K "Investment" if your Pension is below <$80K pa & this money is still yours (e.g. you could leave it sat in a bank account if you liked).
TBH I'm not concerned about it as if they were to start taxing expats who bring Investment money into Thailand it would kill foreign currency investment & as I say, there seems a simple enough way around it (Don't be Tax Resident in Thailand in the Year that you bring in the money).
I am sure Thai Elite and LTR are scrambling to understand the impact on them and their existing members, and are grappling with the issue that there may be no new members if funds bought in to pay for or support these visas ends up taxed.
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6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:
I can't see the benefit of getting one of these visas. Just leave 800k in a bank and pay 1900 baht a year, or pay the agents 15,000 baht a year. I know the latter is usually illegal, but nobody seems to care.
thats ok if you can prove you have paid tax on that 800k yes going forward, else you bring in to Thailand and the new rules suggest it could be taxed if you cannot prove you paid tax on it or bring it from a tax haven. Many Elite Visa Holders have been working in tax havens and so can prove they have been assessed for tax but not necessarily paid tax.
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5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:
Specially for chinese buyers, the most significant, who have just started coming back. Their tax treaty is only for companies and most of the money they bring in for money laundering anyway.
they can only "export" $50K each per year so not enough for property purchase so a lot does come in via a company such as a lawyer.
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12 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:
It's actually the other way round... if the money was part of a "Taxed Pension" then I don't believe the Thai govt can take any as I would already have paid tax under the UK/Thai DTA (Double Taxation Agreement), it's the fact that it is tax free in the UK that is concerning me.
Bitcoin etc... seem to be one of the main areas that the Thai govt is looking to start taxing gains from so is probably the last thing you should do in this scenario... But that aside, the point is to bring in >$250,000 investment to support my LTR Visa application so needs to be "Out in the Open".
they have to make bringing money in to support visas exempt surely, 900k for Thai Elite Visa already includes 7% VAT, they couldn't / shouldn't find another way to tax that at income tax rates as its the end of the road for these expensive visas. LTR does currently state that overseas income is not taxed, Elite vaguely said the same ... but that was based on 2023 rules and they could be using the "earned in previous years" rule to get away with that claim. I have already asked Elite for clarification, LTR need to so the same as far as 2024 is concerned
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4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:Will start receiving my private pension(s) in Feb 2026 & the current plan is to take 8-10Million THB as a tax free lump sum and use it to buy a Condo/support my LTR Wealthy Pensioner application but if Thailand is going to take approx. 3.5Million Tax from this then obviously that won't be happening.
I wonder if I can do a Hotblack Desiato (https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Hotblack_Desiato) & spend 1 year Dead (to Thailand) to get around it.
Joking aside, as a single guy who loves to travel it wouldn't be hard for me to do a year or 2 where I spend < 180days in Thailand
the property market lobby must be working hard to push back against this being an implication of the new interpretation of the rules, it would kill the property market or kill the current level of pricing
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28 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:
Crickets from them on the subject
yep, still waiting for a reply .....
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7 hours ago, LikeItHot said:
It says it would apply to tax residents which most of you are not. If you are not working and earning and filing tax returns here this does not apply to you.
the point is over 180 days you are tax resident, now they are not enforcing tax returns, but now they are clearly saying money coming into the country needs to be included in an assessment of tax, thats likely to mean if you are here over 180 days you need to do a tax return
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10 minutes ago, DavisH said:
30-40K baht or thereabouts.
71000 baht actually
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1 minute ago, Thorgal said:
You're a tax-non-resident if your stay is below 180 days and you've earned money on a Thai bank account and from a Thai registered company. Then also you have to pay Thai income tax...
the 180 day rule in the black and white line yes, sure to be some grey areas as well unearthed later I suppose as with the previous loop hole
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3 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:
That would be anyone with a 1-year Non-Immigrant Visa extension, possibly even Elite Visa holders, etc.
or even tourists that stay a combined 180 days over several visits as happens, of course at 180 days its wrong to truly call them tourists but they are on standard tourist visas and extensions
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1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:
That would be anyone with a 1-year Non-Immigrant Visa extension, possibly even Elite Visa holders, etc.
LTR visa states tax exemption for overseas earnings but of course that was stated pre this redefining of the current tax law
Thailand Elite are vague on the subject, but agents are claiming its a "tax free" visa - I have asked for official confirmation.
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6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:Well this seems destined to fail. The banking industry is not onboard. Taking bets on how many days before this boondoggle gets tossed in the rubbish bin.
First and foremost, the private banking industry is unambiguously unsettled by the announcement. Banks, after all, are gatekeepers to the capital flows that keep an economy robust. Their clients, many of whom have already moved funds out of Thailand, are now confronted with a policy quagmire that could have been avoided with clearer guidelines.
https://www.thaienquirer.com/50755/opinion-thailands-ambitious-plan-to-tax-incoming-funds-risks-falling-flat-due-to-lack-of-clarity/Thai Baht is also dropping ...
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7 minutes ago, kwilco said:
Sounds like you think they take the whole lot after that!!!
that's the level up to which you don't pay tax....they take nothing - the next level how much?
150,001 to 300,000 - 5%
300,001 to 500,000 - 10%
500,001 to 750,000 - 15%
750,001 to 1,000,000 - 20%
Still very low.
based on bringing in 780,000 a year, which is what a person on a retirement visa has to bring in officially, so reasonable that RD set that as a minimum, then tax is 71,000 a year, less than 10% but its still a nice chunk of money.
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5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:
No but the burden might be on the taxpayer to produce documentary evidence on the source of the income and to show it was already taxed in a DTA country. Also what if Thailand just assesses a tax demand which could happen years after the remittance and tells you to reclaim tax paid in the country of origin? The Thai system will be out of kilter with other countries that deal with tax on a prior year basis because the RD is now saying it can tax overseas income that arose years ago which would probably make it impossible to reclaim tax.
I can see them potential saying that you haven't declared enough money to live so how are you living as a way of taxing you above what you have declared as bringing in. That's fraught with danger given the way other government office like immigration deal with things.
I suppose as a minimum you'd have to bring in and declare at least 65000 baht x 12 a year as living expenses to match what they insist people on retirement visas bring in (ignoring agents in the whole process for now). But what would the tax be on 780,000 Baht, not small for sure !
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3 minutes ago, Lorry said:
The word "only" was added by you, its not in coconuts and not in the original from the RD, which has been translated in this thread 3 times
correct, it all relates to "tax residents" which is in absolute terms anyone that lives here 180 days in a tax year
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1 minute ago, whiteman said:Might be a few that will go dark after 1st Jan and not go to the immigration Depatments ever again. no more 90 days or 3 months showing your 800k is still there.
Yearly renewal retirement visa not bothering. Many things to now think about. BUY Gold cash it in when needed for cash to live on. Many more older overstayers.
Time will tell
guess many will reduce their time to less than 180 days and Thailand will lose half the money that those individuals used to spend here, and also lose the money currently spent on long term visas such as with Thailand Elite, why pay 0.9m baht up to 5m baht when staying here on the visa for over 180 days is going to cost you in tax
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3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:
The original article does not mention pensions but 3 categories?
three groups: individuals involved in foreign stock market trading via overseas brokerages, cryptocurrency traders, and Thais who have previously utilised a tax loophole to bring foreign income into the country tax-free after holding it in an offshore account for over a year."yep thats an article from a news site, its not an official translation of the re interpretation of the law by the RD
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Three Overstaying Chinese Men Arrested in Phuket
in Phuket News
Posted
about a zillion based on TAT's calculations I think, but less than a zillion departing