Thaindrew

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I can't see the benefit of getting one of these visas. Just leave 800k in a bank and pay 1900 baht a year, or pay the agents 15,000 baht a year. I know the latter is usually illegal, but nobody seems to care. 

 

thats ok if you can prove you have paid tax on that 800k yes going forward, else you bring in to Thailand and the new rules suggest it could be taxed if you cannot prove you paid tax on it or bring it from a tax haven. Many Elite Visa Holders have been working in tax havens and so can prove they have been assessed for tax but not necessarily paid tax. 

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Specially for chinese buyers, the most significant, who have just started coming back.  Their tax treaty is only for companies and most of the money they bring in for money laundering anyway. 

they can only "export" $50K each per year so not enough for property purchase so a lot does come in via a company such as a lawyer.

12 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

It's actually the other way round... if the money was part of a "Taxed Pension" then I don't believe the Thai govt can take any as I would already have paid tax under the UK/Thai DTA (Double Taxation Agreement), it's the fact that it is tax free in the UK that is concerning me. 

 

Bitcoin etc... seem to be one of the main areas that the Thai govt is looking to start taxing gains from so is probably the last thing you should do in this scenario... But that aside, the point is to bring in >$250,000 investment to support my LTR Visa application so needs to be "Out in the Open".  

 

they have to make bringing money in to support visas exempt surely, 900k for Thai Elite Visa already includes 7% VAT, they couldn't / shouldn't find another way to tax that at income tax rates as its the end of the road for these expensive visas. LTR does currently state that overseas income is not taxed, Elite vaguely said the same ... but that was based on 2023 rules and they could be using the "earned in previous years" rule to get away with that claim. I have already asked Elite for clarification, LTR need to so the same as far as 2024 is concerned

28 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Crickets from them on the subject

yep, still waiting for a reply .....

7 hours ago, LikeItHot said:

It says it would apply to tax residents which most of you are not.  If you are not working and earning and filing tax returns here this does not apply to you.  

the point is over 180 days you are tax resident, now they are not enforcing tax returns, but now they are clearly saying money coming into the country needs to be included in an assessment of tax, thats likely to mean if you are here over 180 days you need to do a tax return

10 minutes ago, DavisH said:

30-40K baht or thereabouts. 

71000 baht actually 

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

You're a tax-non-resident if your stay is below 180 days and you've earned money on a Thai bank account and from a Thai registered company. Then also you have to pay Thai income tax...

 

the 180 day rule in the black and white line yes, sure to be some grey areas as well unearthed later I suppose as with the previous loop hole

3 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

That would be anyone with a 1-year Non-Immigrant Visa extension, possibly even Elite Visa holders, etc.

or even tourists that stay a combined 180 days over several visits as happens, of course at 180 days its wrong to truly call them tourists but they are on standard tourist visas and extensions

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

That would be anyone with a 1-year Non-Immigrant Visa extension, possibly even Elite Visa holders, etc.

LTR visa states tax exemption for overseas earnings but of course that was stated pre this redefining of the current tax law

Thailand Elite are vague on the subject, but agents are claiming its a "tax free" visa - I have asked for official confirmation.

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Sounds like you think they take the whole lot after that!!!

 

that's the level up to which you don't pay tax....they take nothing - the next level how much?

 

150,001 to 300,000 - 5%

300,001 to 500,000 - 10%

500,001 to 750,000 - 15%

750,001 to 1,000,000 - 20%

 

Still very low.

based on bringing in 780,000 a year, which is what a person on a retirement visa has to bring in officially, so reasonable that RD set that as a minimum, then tax is 71,000 a year, less than 10% but its still a nice chunk of money.

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

No but the burden might be on the taxpayer to produce documentary evidence on the source of the income and to show it was already taxed in a DTA country. Also what if Thailand just assesses a tax demand which could happen years after the remittance and tells you to reclaim tax paid in the country of origin?  The Thai system will be out of kilter with other countries that deal with tax on a prior year basis because the RD is now saying it can tax overseas income that arose years ago which would probably make it impossible to reclaim tax.

I can see them potential saying that you haven't declared enough money to live so how are you living as a way of taxing you above what you have declared as bringing in. That's fraught with danger given the way other government office like immigration deal with things.

I suppose as a minimum you'd have to bring in and declare at least 65000 baht x 12 a year as living expenses to match what they insist people on retirement visas bring in (ignoring agents in the whole process for now). But what would the tax be on 780,000 Baht, not small for sure !

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

The word "only" was added by you, its not in coconuts and not in the original from the RD, which has been translated in this thread 3 times

correct, it all relates to "tax residents" which is in absolute terms anyone that lives here 180 days in a tax year

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

The original article does not mention pensions but 3 categories?

three groups: individuals involved in foreign stock market trading via overseas brokerages, cryptocurrency traders, and Thais who have previously utilised a tax loophole to bring foreign income into the country tax-free after holding it in an offshore account for over a year."

yep thats an article from a news site, its not an official translation of the re interpretation of the law by the RD

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Hong Kong is China, so I wouldn't consider that global income.

Were you required to declare and pay tax on income from outside China?

HK is not considered part of China for tax purposes, you can see for example that Thailand has DTA agreements with both separately.

If I stayed in China more than 180 days I would have had to declare my HK income for tax assessment in China. I got out before my obligation commenced initially spending less than 180 days there and now I just do a few business trips back there each year which is easy enough as I still have a valid resident permit

12 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Yes, but where do savings come from?  Past earnings from employment, from investment, from inheritance, from gifts.  All are now deemed taxable income when remitted to Thailand with no time limit on when they arose. In fact overseas inheritance is taxable in Thailand, even if not remitted to the country.  The new RD interpretation of the existing Revenue Code says "income earned in any tax year which means that they can go back as many years as they like to the point that the savings were first accumulated.  Then they can tax the interest.

but only if you bring those monies to Thailand right, whatever that means, sure they can track bank transfers, but atm withdrawals, credit card payments etc could they get into that much detail?

10 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Those happily married to a Thai national can transfer (in this case from abroad) to their spouse up to THB 20 million in value per calendar year tax free as a gift.

you could send 20m to yourself tax free before, but not going forward, don't see how that will be different for a Thai spouse, they also have a tax free threshold of 150k and these very changes are to prevent money coming from outside Thailand to Thais also tax free - if it is a loophole that could be proven its potential a lucrative agency type business

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Nail on the head hit.  Because of the very strong likelihood of 'errors of interpretation' by Thai Revenue Dept Officers and/or Thai Banks, this is a massive issue for Expats in Thailand.  If it is not cleared up quickly and clearly, with the Thai Govt publicly stating that Expat's pensions and savings will not be taxed, the obvious reality is that they will be taxed.  Even if the Thai Govt did not intend that to happen, there will very likely occur situations where Expats incoming funds are 'taxed' - and the Expat will have to prove to the satisfaction of the Thai Revenue Officer (or Thai Bank Officer) that the funds were taxed in the country of origin in the previous years - which in many cases will be even more impossible than getting the owners/CEO of a foreign health insurance company to certify that their policy meets the Thai Immigration requirements (remember that??).  

 

If I bring over 5-10 million baht to buy a property, will the Thai Bank 'withhold' 30% as potential due tax?

Will the Thai Revenue Dept demand I prove the funds were taxed in order to have them released?

There are so many other potential issues/problems - and they are potentially very big ones.

 

The fact that this has happened and none in the Thai Govt has stated anything yet, gives me pause to reconsider whether living here long term is a good idea. Malaysia (Penang) is looking good right now - Plan B.

it could kill the property market if applied as you state, of course if you transfer a large sum there is already anti money laundering checks but generally thats to show you did earn the money, not exactly that you paid tax on it. When you consider the current buyers of Thai property those may well have not paid tax in their home countries, and if they were taxed at such high rates when funds arrive in Thailand, the property market would collapse in terms of sales volumes or the prices drop 30%.

3 minutes ago, digbeth said:

You're not forced to do a return, but I suspect they have mechanism to check or report overseas transfer coming in at the bank, while there may not withhold the tax straight away, they'll certainly know if you have

 

If you think hell has broken loose here, the Thai investor in forums and facebook groups are going mad, any Thai that has enough savings worth sending abroad to invest in place with decent return will be taxed on the initial capital that went out of the country too, unless there are ways to declare money you sent abroad. 

 

When it comes in effect, I suspect instead of wiring in transfer, it'd be wiser to fly in with liquid assets like watches that can be conspicuously worn and pass through customs 

and its interesting to note all this is based on a re-interpretation of the current law, not something that has to go through parliament, and who has the most funds outside the country that has never had tax paid ...... ?

6 minutes ago, proton said:

If you go home once a year or so just bring a wad of cash back, up to 20k dollars without declaring it, or will they be taxing that as well?

the big issue is whether if you are here for more than 180 days will they force you to do a tax return, I'd say its likely now, if you declare no funds bought to Thailand they are likely to ask questions about how you can live. If they tie in immigration and you have a "married" or "retirement" visas they are also likely to check that the funds you declare on a tax return match what you have to declare for those visas. You could though bring in with cash, atm / credit card etc funds over and above what you have to declare for your visa and that would probably go unnoticed.

8 minutes ago, freeworld said:

It would depend if there was a law or policy excluding elite visa holders from Thai tax otherwise everyone will be in the same boat based on tax residence.

 

I suppose the complication of different Thai residencies and sources of income transferred into Thailand by foreigners will come to light by the Thailand govt and tax authorities who will study and work to find a solution.

I'd say at the new costs of the Thai Elite Visa, if you would also be taxed, then those visas will be much less attractive than before - people will chose to stay here less than 6 months a year and chose a different visa option