Thaindrew

and is the 10000 itself subject to income tax if it takes Thai individuals over the tax threshold?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

What countries mandate the tax year not be the calendar year? 

UK for one ....

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Are they planning to cancel the double taxation treaties they have in place? 

I'd say thats unlikely, but its going to be complicated, the DTA state who has first rights to the tax and in some cases that will be Thailand, in some instances it may be both given the differing tax free allowances, and many countries also run different tax years (ie ending April or ending December) which is going to add to the complications

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Does it not only apply to funds you bring into Thailand? 

yep for 2024, but the proposals for 2025 go much further.

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think I am just going to start using a US credit card for most everything I can. If I do that, I can go years without having to bring any money into Thailand. 

 

I used to do this when I was working in Thailand and getting paid into my US account. 

with the taxation system proposed for 2025 it doesn't matter how you spend it, only how you earn it 

1 hour ago, hrrecruiter said:

 

I'm in an almost identical situation. 

- Elite Visa 20y

- Property in TH

- Aiming at Bali (much easier VISAS than TH, multiple entries)

 

I went to Bali to do some recce and it should work fine actually, planning on maintaining 2 houses (BKK & CANGGU)

 

Just waiting until the RD pull the trigger and reinforce the global taxes, I may pay the 1st year with fines and I will put the plan to work. The extra costs of housing + flights, gets offset by the taxes, and you dont need to deal with the accounting & filling

 

 

 

this seems the last loop hole for governments to close, living in 3 countries (179 + 179 + 7 days), so as to not be tax resident anywhere - it does have complications with banking when the bank ask for residency address and tax codes - but it is my short term plan to do the same - I also have 20 year Thai Elite Visa - other option is LTR visa but some of the requirements are high to achieve. 

On 6/8/2024 at 12:42 AM, Lorry said:

@Dogmatixis right,  credit card and ATM transactions have nothing to do with CRS

I suppose you could say they do and they don't, reading the CRS guide on the OECD website what actually gets recorded is "payments to your accounts" and "starting / ending balances". Since CRS support Global Tax Systems rather than Remittance Based Tax Systems.

So for 2024 spending on credit cards, using debit cards may go below the radar (I heard from advisors both that they are included / not included). Whilst Thailand is taxing remittances, they can only try to tax what hits you Thai Bank Account (they can see also what hits any foreign account, but thats currently not relevant). But in 2025 if they move to taxing global income, for tax residents, then CRS will give them details of all payments made into your account(s) everywhere which they can consider as assessable for income tax unless you can prove prove them wrong.

54 minutes ago, Robaht said:

Yeah, last year I used Wise to bring money in small increments like 10k baht into my Kasikorn bank and just withdraw from ATMs - worked great! Finally I thought, here is a way to avoid the 220b charge at ATMs and get a great exchange rate. LOL now that would count as funding/revenue/assessable income whatever you want to call it. So I've stopped that and don't even use my Thai bank account.  Now I pay with credit cards wherever I can, use my credit card to withdraw money at ATM - I use the yellow bank and keep the receipts which are labeled "visa credit" so that should be fine, and also bring cash to exchange here in Thailand. I'm not sure what else I could do, maybe get Thai baht out of country say on a "money run" to Malaysia or something!

credit card and ATM transactions all are part of CRS reporting unfortunately

5 minutes ago, ChasingTheSun said:

Taxing worldwide income regardless of when/if remitted to Thailand would probably be a total game changer for most wealthy retired expats in Thailand.

 

If they are going to get taxed in Thailand as much as in a place like Europe, you may as well live somewhere on the Med in Europe(Spain, Portugal, Italy, France) with all the benefits of Europe.

 

This is an example of the calculus:

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Thailand and get NOTHING for it.

VS.

 

Pay 50k in taxes in Europe and get “free” quality healthcare, good schools, police and fire, good roads etc.

 

 

The wealthy will always have options - LTR Visa, Offshore banking, Blind Trusts, or just regular travel so as not to hit 180 days in Thailand ....

2 minutes ago, alphason said:

 

Thanks, maybe should have sold earlier also.

 

UK CGT on property is 18%or24%, Thailand PIT could be as high as 35%. (£45k 30%, £110k 35%). How do they calculate gain, from when.

 

Also if you owned the property before April 2015, as a UK non resident you can rebase the valuation to April 2015, so taxed only on gain from April 2015.

 

 

Yes I used the rebasing method and paid an effective tax rate on the profit of only 3-4%.

in Thailand they calculate based on land office docs, purchase price v selling price less any allowances for renovation, furniture etc (that in effect are passed on in the sale), but you need proper receipts. 

8 minutes ago, topt said:

Perhaps we are talking Apples and Oranges.

Registering as non-resident for tax in the UK is vastly different to registering as a non-dom. Non-doms are (as far as I am aware) are tax resident in the UK but not domiciled. As a lowly Brit but registered as non-resident for tax with HMRC I pay no tax on any offshore income or any capital gains excluding property. I have not had to show that I am registered elsewhere.

becoming UK non-tax resident is fairly easy yes, you are out of the country for a period of time and have no earnings in the UK. Non-Dom is harder to achieve - proposed legislation seems to say that you can claim Non Dom if you lived in another country for 10 years straight and proactively choose that country as your place of domicile (not a mix of countries) - given the upcoming election we will have to see if that legislation goes through. 

As a non-tax resident you are correct that we don't pay any tax in the UK on foreign earnings but we are still liable for capital gains achieved in the UK (say from a sale of a property) and still liable for inheritance tax unless we can claim non-dom status.

27 minutes ago, alphason said:

 

I've been struggling to find out about this, but from found this on Sherrings Thai tax pages...

 

Taxation of Capital Gains Income.

 

Specific types of assessable (taxable) income, for a resident of Thailand* is taxed as follows: 

* A resident is a person in Thailand for 180 days or more in a year

 

For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**.
Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment).

 

**not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated.

 

Is this saying the UK Thai DTA prevents Thailand charging CGT/PIT on the sale of a property in the UK ??

the property I sold was in Thailand so the DTA wasn't relevant.

I also recently sold a property in the UK and paid capital gains tax there but It only worked out as a low percentage (much less than Thai income tax rates) - I sold it last year just in case Thailand conspired to find a way to tax it ! 

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I manage my investments and income to pay $0 tax in the US.  There would be no offsetting credit.

 

Capital gains is not taxed in Thailand............Thai stocks only.  Foreign stocks capital gains paid at ordinary income rate.

 

Many ifs and unknowns.

Wait and see.

Update Plan B.

 

 

capital gains are now taxed in Thailand as income, make a profit on a property sale and it taxed at income tax rates. the land office is sending sales paperwork to the tax office, who contact you to pay the tax 

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

No tax on transfers per se. Tax is on income. If the source of the funds transferred is savings of funds earned/acquired before 2023 then no tax implication.

thats the 2024 rule yep, who know what rules they will apply in 2025 - and thats the problem

5 hours ago, alphason said:

 

This is the issue for many.

 

If income in the UK in under the UK threshold of 12,570GBP you pay no UK tax, on 12,570GBP (around 565K baht) as an example tax is around 15% in Thailand (less some allowances).

 

Will Thailand look at your income, or your assessable income stated by HMRC (income less deductions, used to calculate your tax).

 

UK CGT on property is 18%/24%, Here there is no CGT so I think you pay tax on that at normal income tax rates (not 100% sure ??). So for example a UK property with a gain of around 100,000GBP would pay 24% tax in UK, but 35% in Thailand. (possibly??)

Capital Gains is taxed as income, just paid income tax on the sale of an apartment, they will let you offset any renovation costs and they also let me offset apartment management fees - this means it could go up to 35% on a tiered basis depending on the profit

29 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You need to do some IHT homework.  IHT obviously is not a liability for everyone, less than 4% of estates as at 2021 pay any tax.

yes its not applicable to everyone, and there are ways to avoid it, but it is an example of the differing implementation of rules to suit the Government only, "you are leaving the UK for Thailand, ok we will fix your pension, oh but we won't fix your asset value, that can continue to grow and potentially be inheritance taxed". To avoid that eventuality, should you have significant assets, you need to be come non-com which isn't that easy to achieve. 

On 6/1/2024 at 12:32 PM, Homburg said:

Much of the pension money paid by UK government to pensioners resident in the UK is recovered through taxes paid by the pensioners in the UK.  These taxes are recovered through a variety of means - Council Tax, VAT, fuel taxes, IPT, taxes on the businesses that pensioners buy from (including supermarkets), etc.  These taxes cannot be recovered for non-resident pensioners who therefore cost the government more than resident pensioners, so the government "freezes" these pensions in order to compensate.

on the flip side though the UK Government will still want you to pay inheritance tax ... so you cannot have a few hundred quid in pension but please send us 40% of what you have when you die ... at least align all the different benefits / taxed 

1 hour ago, wensiensheng said:

I’m not sure you are correct. Only INCOME brought in is assessable to tax. Possibly capital gains also. I see no mention of assessing capital monies that are brought in to Thailand.

 

there is also the issue of whether the person withdrawing cash from an atm is, in fact, resident in Thailand for tax purposes. No details were provided by the op on that.

ATM withdrawals are reported as part of CRS to the country where you declare residency

1 hour ago, Thumbs said:

Step 1 arrest all immigration officers working in cahoots with visa agencies 

step 2 .. oh no step 2 as no immigration officials left working 

6 hours ago, Dolf said:

1200 baht CM to Don Muang in April. That's not expensive.

 

 

then they charge you 2000 too add a bag though

HSBC in Hong Kong is relatively easy to open an account with an no minimum balance. they also have a multi currency debit card meaning you can also hold THB and spend it directly in Thailand with the debit card without fees and with a small rebate.

8 minutes ago, worrab said:

Try Carl Turner at

 

https://www.carlturnerfinancial.com/
 

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