Schooner

how about a couple of points your all missing.

If condos are such a bad investment than why are 4 mega projects currently under construction?

Apparently you fellas know more than the hundreds of professional people who worked out that building huge condo projects in Pattaya is a good investment.

A great piece of advise I heard from a successful invester when ask how he was so profitable he replied" I don't know anything about investing I just do what Warren Buffet does" same principle here. I think I'll choose to go with the professionals who are anticipating a huge influx of farangs to buy these properties.

Furthermore, I have to agree that Thailand's rule of law is a little rough around the edges but the important thing to remember is that the rules come and go but nothing ever really changes. The recent crack down on visas is met to rid the country of undesireables. If your one of those than I agree that you should not invest in Thailand. If you are not than you have nothing to worry about.

Here is some recent news that you may have missed. S&P takes Thailand of the watch list and restores it's A/A-1 currency rating the reason they gave is "the kingdom outlook is stable" Thailands real growth is 5% and debt is 29% of GDP. Visitors to the kingdom in the fourth quarter are up 6% over last year in spite of the coup. Thailand's flagship hospitals experencing 30% growth. I have to agree that living here it looks a little messy sometimes but the trends are good and so is the history.

Lets not even mention the millions of baby boomers who are loaded and looking for a warm place to retire.

I think that the gloom and doom posters have maybe been burned by there bar investment or there bg girlfriend to have the completly negative position that they have. Clearly they do not like Thailand for some reason and wish it harm.

sorry to take so long to get back.

Thanks gumball, her appointment is at 0700 and I will go with her. The paperwork they sent advised that we should plan to wait a long time. I think I'll bring "war and peace" I'm just so pleased to be getting this close that this part will be easy.

Yes she had to go the the royal thai police office in bkk for the certificate. I think it was free but not sure. Bumrungrad is the only place to go for the physical unless she is in Changmai, I think there was one there also. They will chest x-ray her and mine got some vacc shots (and had a sore arm for a week) They will give her the report of the physical and the x-ray to take with her. Do not open it. Ours was sealed for the Embassy to open (which raises the issue of how we get copies of it) I think they give it back to be carried to the states for US immigration.

I spent hours translating her birth certificate in photo shop and it was perfect. looked just like the origional except all in english with color and everything. Unfortunatly we cant use it and had to get it done at my lawyers for 900 baht.

You will also have to go to one of the post offices around bkk and pay the interview fee of $100 USD or 4,000 baht which is what they charged us. Be sure to keep the blue top copy to bring to the interview to show that you paid. All that will be in the packet they send which BTW is also in thai. The last packet is actually pretty clear about what they want and easy to follow. They warn about three times that everything must be in the exact order and every question on every form answered.

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.

bill

my fiancee's interview is Nov 29 assuming that she passes does anyone know the protocall at New York immigration. We have a flight scheduled to arrive at 0630 and need to plan for a connecting flight to Florida, but I think there is some more paperwork at the airport. Anyone have any experence with this check in to the US?

Yes, 5-6 weeks I think from packet three to interview date. There is a interview schedule posted on the internet. We saw the date before we recieved the last packet. (packet 4)

I don't have it with me now but I'll get it for you if you can't find it at the BKK embassy site.

Some of the stuff in packet 4 seems to be ambigious. For example: the I-134 support affidavit says it's supposed to be signed and witnessed by a consular officer, but when I email them to ask if I should come in before the interview date they said just sign it.

Also now there saying that all thai documents have to translated by a "certified" translator and noterised. We translated the other documents ourselves and signed a certification.

Now everything comes down to the interview. Again, the devil is in the details

Good luck Bill

Update: we now have an interview date Nov 29. Hopefully we will get the visa that day or the following. I can't imagine anything holding it up because I have gone over this stuff a hundred times and whenever I was unsure of something I gave them more information than I'm sure they needed. Also I e-mailed them with a couple of questions that I thought would be ignored but they replied with the answers. I asked for an earlier interview date - no, I asked if we could bring her notebook computer to the interview to show dated photos of our 8 months relationship - no, computers are not allowed. I asked if I should expect to be able to sign the support doc that the instructions say should be signed in the presence of a counsular officer the day of the interview and they said it does not have to be witnessed. Just sign it.

I agree with the advice to be very careful to not make mistakes. There is plenty of information available, but I had to read it very carefully. When we go to the interview we will have everything orgainized with extra copies of everything and more information than they want to know.

If you look at the news from the US every major news outlet has checked in with the fall in the real estate market. Some areas are in the teens some are in the mid 30's. A friend of mine who just visited told me that his two condos in Florida have lost about 22% in just the past few months. The point that I tried to make is that the issue of real estate values going up and down is not unique to Thailand.

My other point is that I bought my home because I loved it. I like waking up here everyday. I don't care if it goes up or down in value because I didn't buy it as an investment. I bought it because I like it.

My other point is life is full of risks no matter where you live. I choose to live balancing the risks with the benefits of a stimulating, challanging life. I don't understand why anyone would come here to Thailand and then constantly complain about living here. If I did not enjoy it as much as I do I would go back to where I came from.

BTW if the crap hits the fan and the doomsday predictors are correct about farangs being rounded up and sent home what makes you think that owning a condo in your name is going to help you?

finally, I will say again. some of you people need to get a life beyond staring at a computer screen and quoting statistics.

Almost a year ago I started looking at condos because I was tired of living in hotel rooms and paying the high price. I also wanted it in my name. I looked at a bunch of condos and one day the realtor took me to look at a new 2 bedroom place with a pool in a nice village. I loved the place. I threw caution to the wind and paid the asking price. Now I'm usually a pretty analytical guy, but this was a complete impule buy. I bought the place through a nominee company, so I'm one of those.

I've been waking up in this place for a year now and I still love the place. It is perfect for me and I intend to keep it. (BTW it's going to be for rent soon when I go back to the states for about 6 months to start a new business) MY point is that I like living here. Like everyone else I paniked when the "new" rules about companies came out, but I don't believe that there will be a problem that will involve "walking away from my investment" History just doesn't support that notion. Any investment, anywhere is subject to loss. Take a look at the American housing market that is currently taking a dump to the tune of 30% equity loss. The rule for ANY investment is don't invest if you can't afford to loose.

The impulsiveness of my choice to buy this place has caused me to think of other impulsive choices I've made, like the choice to come to Thailand in the firstplace. All of my impulsive decisions have produced my happiest experences.

If it all goes to hel_l My fall back position bagging groceries at the local supermatket and I will be doing it with a smile on my face remembering this wonderful Thailand experence.

BTW my friend has a nice condo at metro on the 30th floor. It's a beautiful view for sure, but he is acutly sensitive to noise and his neighbor who only comes about once a month parties all night so condos are not for everyone.

Here's a statistic for you. I came here a year ago for a 2 week holiday. 2 weeks turned into three and so on. Obviously there is some attraction and not just the pretty women. I wake up everyday and ask myself if I'm enjoying my life here. Is it interesting and stimulating and challanging. So I stay. I have a home I enjoy, but never would have bought had I listened to the chicken little types. It is all mind over matter - if you don't mind, it don't matter.

I have never had a problem living in Pattaya, not even one, so my statistic is 100% no violence. What do I care about a bunch of stuff that dosen't concern me. Like I said I wake up every day decide if my life is better here than in the states. Obviously it is or I would go home.

It's interesting to see the statistic that the US is ranked 14th for murders. Here's why, there are a million people in prison and it has become a police state. big brother is watching everything. Do I feel safer there? No. I have engaged in risky behavior all of my life and it's a wonder I'm still around. Thailand is a walk in the park. I think the wild west aspect is interesting. Oh, the human drama... besides it's "not up to me" MY TGF reminds me that "it's not my business" what thais do and she is absolutly right.

Some folks need to get a life beyond google searchs and statistics. Knowing your stats ain't gonna help ya live a better life and isn't that what it's really all about?

some good advice here.

Assuming her visa is approved my fiancee will be comming to the states in about a month. we intend to do some traveling about and exploring the western states. We are also going to be involved in marketing Thai hospitals. She is interested in many things and seems to be able to be flexable and adaptable. She spends a lot of time on her laptop and has a skype setup to her village and her grandparents and her cousins who she is close to.

She has been a student and worked in an electronics factory so I think she appreciates play time as well a work and she wants to cultivate a career. I think the key is to keep her busy and stimulated and have a way for her to stay in touch with friends in Thailand. All her friends have laptops. I want it to be challanging to learn the language (actually she knows english well but needs to practice speaking it) and culture and more importantly business. My five year plan is to have her supporting me by then.

I too have looked into large Thai communities and read about LA and NY both have web sites and she can still access thai websites from the states. She is already pretty westernized it seems so we'll see how things go. I have some flexability to be adaptive and so does she.

Update,

We recieved the packet 3 on Sept 18 and your right it had many forms and requirements in it and not really clear on a couple of things like which forms need to be sent in immediatly, some signed and some unsigned and apparently a new requirement for 50mmx50mm photos.

We are doing this ourselves and so far so good, but I have spent hours and hours trying to be sure of every detail.

Today we mailed out the requested packet 3 stuff hopefully I have not made a mistake on this latest batch and we will get an interview in about a month. So we may have a shot at comming in around 4 months for the whole process.

I have a friend who is using a service and he has still not recieved the packet 3 and he has about 200,000 invested so far and he started about a month before us. I don't know the name of the service.

good luck out there

I am the first one to critisize my own country (US) but I will be the last to stick my nose in to What's going on here in Thailand. I live here and like Thailand and support the Thai's in figuring out how to deal with what is going on. As a guest here I am staying out of it. Of all the things that offend the Thai people the worst is the arrogant notion that farang know whats best for them. I hope we all support them by respecting them at this time.

Yea, I'm sick of reading stuff like this too.

"Australian real estate agent badyly beaten" like he was working??

I lived on soi post office for several months and frankly I was ahamed to be a farung and seeing the behavour of farungs who think that this is there personal playground where they can act stupid and disrespectful be drunk and disorderly and the cops should want to protect them Why???

To all you crybabies out there who think that the farung is always right and everything Thai is wrong I suggest you don't wipe your feet, never mind the lights, go now and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

update, recieved the I-797 (notice of action) approval in the mail yesterday. I had learned of the approval thru e-mail on Sept 5 (mail 8 days) and it looks like they mailed the notification on the same day.

So, they've turned it over to the national visa center in NH and they're saying 2-4 weeks processing here before sending it along to BKK. Apparently they will also notify me at the same time. I'm not clear how this works. There is a packet 3 and and packet 4 mentioned on the BKK website that BKK sends out with forms to complete.

It's looking like the whole process will take longer than 3 months. This part alone has taken 2 and who knows what the rest will be.

I also had my divorce papers in a box hidden away. Got my brother to did them out and e-mail them to me. They do not have to be certified or noterized. I had also looked into getting a copy from the court, but it looked like it would take 6 weeks for the mail. Just got word the the 129F is approved so it worked for me.

I came last Oct on a one-way ticket. I recall looking at the law at the time and it said to have a ticket or the funds to buy one. I was never asked. If your planning to stay here what is the point of throwing away money on a ticket you won't use.

I'll give it a shot.

There are many people who are taking a deeper look at themselves and involved in some sort of process that can facilitate personal growth. Thats a good thing. All of these processes are very comfortable places to be. Each process has a fundamental message that someone discovered worked for them and can work for you if you do what I did. The "followers" then learn the message and with it the lingo. They likely are enlightened about something and experence some personal growth. There are common "truths" that just resonate with people. After your own "enlightenment" education you want to share your experence with others so you use the language to enlighten others. Unfortunatly if you stay with all the nice folks in the group you deprive yourself of the opportunity to test yourself to see if you really are different. It's a very comfortable place to be. Everyone is nice to eachother and hugs and kisses all around. What I find amusing is that these people become so comfortable that all the baggage that brought them there in the first place is still there but they have just found a new way to ignore it. It's like the dry drunk. There not drinking and they know all the lingo and have the bumper stickers, but thats about it.

It's kind of like the "geographical cure" If you are unhappy where you are than just move to another place and you'll be so distracted with all the new details you won't think about your troubles. At least for awhile anyway.

IMO PC is the business of always trying to present yourself as a diluted down version of your self. If you look at polititions these days they even have coaches who are responsable for keeping them "on message" and keeping there foot out of there mouths. Thats all fine, but how do you know what they stand for and how passionate they might be about something.

Some of the people here say what they think. I like that. I hear them and I know where they stand on an issue. If I say "I think she should fry" it leaves no doubt.

God, I get so sick of all the Thai bashing. It seems to me that the one thing that never gets said is "I take personal responsability for the quality of my life" If it is not working for me it is MY falt.

I love it when a farang comes here and throws money around like he's trying to impress someone and who do you suppose he's going to attract? He spends a fortune on a woman he's just met and then is mad because she wants more or she runs off with another sucker.

If you haven't figured out by now how to evaluate the person that your about to enter into a relationship with regardless of their financial, education or geographic background and see the character of that INDIVIDUAL person than you get what you deserve. som nom na. The difinition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Is it love? Well, what the hel_l is love anyway. For millions of years humans got togather because it was practicle. It simply made sense. It was a win-win. I'm sick to death of trying to life up to some womens romantic expectations of "her knight in shining armor" and it is a refreshing relief to share life with a happy, fun, intelligent young woman who wants a better life for herself and her family and is willing to work for it. I am not reminded daily of how I am not living up to "her" romantic expectations. The worse thing that ever happened to the west is "romantic love" It's taken me most of my life to figure out that the women I'm "attracted" to I am least compatible with.

When I met my TGF there was an attraction. She had her reasons, I had mine and as it progressed we had long conversations about what our expectations were before moving to the next level. Yes, it was a little like a business contract but once we understood what to expect we got it out of the way and can focus on the day to day sharing of a enjoyable life togather. Is it love? well if it "walks like a duck"

I'm sorry, but I think that folks who try to sort individual humans beings into groups clouds their ability to see peoples individual character and isn't that whats really important?

Here's an interesting fact. In June the US changed the fiancee visa petition 129F to include questions about the man such as if he has ever been convicted of domestic violence or other crimes. It strikes me that many of you are ignoreing the fact that many men who marry Thai women are <deleted> who mistreat the women. I can't believe the way some men treat there women and still expect loyalty.

A fool and his money are soon parted and if the Thai woman takes advantage of the more power to her.

Anybody have an update on her status?

Boy, what some guys will do for a free coffee.

Wow, I'm impressed. now were getting somewhere.

Thank you Hawaiianeyes for your honest input. You just went up a couple of notches in my book. It seems to me that's what this forum stuff is about is putting our raw feelings out there and getting feedback from others. Yes, some will be pretty rough on us, but you have to admit it's better than being ignored.

I can relate to your background of sucess and I think that generally people who are extremly competient are using the accumulation of knowledge to occupy themselves and overcome feelings of inadaquacy (speaking for myself that is) at some point it no longer worked for me and I had to start doing things differently. Eventually I had to process some things and it's one step forward and two steps back from that point on.

Through out my effort to get a grip I've tried many different processes. Some of the people I encountered seemed to me to be stuck in the process and it became there identity. So you could say that I'm accutely sensitive to PC stuff. It has a language and fundamentilism of it's own.

Would anyone dissagree that when you aim a gun a another human and pull the trigger 3 times you are putting your fate into the hands of others? As I think about it, this may be the first time in her life that she may be held accountable. I would find it hard to believe that if he was involved in cons and criminal activity that she would not be also. Which is another reason for her to be kept away from her children

My complements on espressing a clear opinion Fruttbat. That wasn't so hard was it? As you see when we are clear about how we feel about something than other people can agree or disagree based on our expressed opinion.

Lovedablues does have a good point, you have to admit. I think he put it quite well.

If I were decideing this case I would have problems with the fact that she stayed in this bizzare relationship for as long as she did thus exposing herself to the level of anger necessary to actually take somebodys life. She must have been practicing shooting a gun because I don't think I could pull off two shots to the chest at the distance noted (one in the arm)

So I give you that she was one pissed off cowboy and maybe manslaugther is the more appropriate charge, but why should she get to go back to Canada? What is your logic with that?

There's also the issue of whats best for the children and I think this woman kept having babies with this guy in order to keep the disfuctional relation going which makes her very selfish. She further caused damage to the children by keeping them exposed to him. If it is true that he abused the children as well as her I have a real problem with why she chose to do that. As I said before she has at the least been a bad example for her children and as such should be kept away from them. hel_l, I know far to many people that are kept from seeing there children for a lot less.

I would rate "private dancer" #1, Stephen leather has finished another I think is is called "confessions of a BKK private eye. I haven't seen it in the book stores yet but there is a excerpt and ordering instructions on Stickman's website. I loved the books by Hutchenson: Money No1, "the fool is back" etc. Funny how you can be reading this stuff while your making all the mistakes (well, almost all) he warns against.

There's a new "history of Thailand" thats pretty good and gives us a perspective. "Lady of Issan" was good. I also enjoy reading Stickmans reader submissions.

Don't expect any of them to save you from repeating the mistakes of others. You haven't really "experenced" Thailand untill you do it your self but they may minimise the damage done.

Ohh, the human drama.

As I understand it my approval is just for the 129F petition and now it goes to the national visa center and then on to BKK. I have no idea how long that will take or if it is different for fiancee vs. spouse.

I have talked to a couple of people who have gone through the process and they said the whole thing was about 3 months.

Sounds like gumball knows what he is talking about and he is correct about being very careful to follow the letter of the law and avoid making mistakes.

It is frustrating to have a discussion about a topic and after reading so many flowery words not knowing where a person stands on an issue. I think that there are far too many people who hide behind a PC facade in order to avoid the pain of making a clear decision.

When you add to the mix the underlying love/hate that men and women have towards each other than it dosen't take much of a spark to set off a huge blaze.