madi

Suu Kyi is a brave leader in a country where no demonstrattions are allowed. But does that make her an expert an thai politics and constitution?

Yes she is an expert on SE asia.

And yes, people listen to her.

Yesterday's article in the Straits Times quoting Aung San Suu Kyi's opinion on the Thai crisis is probably a lot more illuminating than any of this nonsense.

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Of course

She talks to the world and calls it clear and clean.

"April 24, 2010...4:56 pm

Aung San Suu Kyi on the perils of having the military’s constitution

Burma’s Aung San Suu Kyi has been reported as commenting that “Thailand’s political crisis shows that a constitution drawn up by the military can never deliver stability…”.

NLD spokesman Nyan Win said that in a meeting he had with Suu Kyi, “she discussed the situation in Thailand, which has been wracked by crises since a 2006 coup ejected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.” He cited her as commenting: “A new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable…. We do not need to see very far. We just see Thailand…. Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military…. After that, what happened with the first (government)? It was not stable…. This was a result of the constitution being written by the military.”

I have an open mind on all the grenade attacks and small bombs about the place and would

be surprised if either side was responsible for all of them.

There have been more Red shirts killed in this situation than any other group.

Given that they have advocated violence and, largely initiated it, it is not surprising.

But this is not a competition about deaths.

However, there needs to be a conclusion and if the protesters will not call a halt (having achieved some useful concessions re elections etc) then a "crackdown" (I detest that word - 'dispersal without casualties' is far better) becomes necessary.

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WHY THE TIME CLOCK?

How long should people fight for justice before giving up?

Would you crawl on the ground to another man?

Why is it you support making poor Thais do it?

Just curious

By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer Ravi Nessman, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 4 mins ago

BANGKOK – Thai protesters occupying parts of Bangkok to press their demands for new elections vowed Sunday to fight on following a breakdown of negotiations and a televised appearance by the prime minister that offered no solution to the protracted, sometimes bloody crisis.

The so-called Red Shirts urged their supporters in provincial areas to confront the security forces, and many of them began setting up roadblocks outside Bangkok to prevent police reinforcements from entering the city.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva spoke in a nationally televised interview alongside the army chief Sunday, in an apparent effort to dispel persistent rumors that there is a rift between him and the military.

The broadcast came a day after Abhisit rejected a compromise offer by the Red Shirts — who say the current government is illegitimate — dashing hopes for a peaceful end to the standoff.

"We won't go home until we win," a protest leader, Khwanchai Praipana, told supporters following Abhisit's appearance.

He said many police and soldiers in the provinces sided with the protesters, and had even asked them to prevent fresh security forces from reaching Bangkok.

"Most police based in the provinces don't want to come deal with the Red Shirts in Bangkok," he said.

More than 1,000 protesters set up a roadblock overnight along a major highway, deflating the tires of 13 police vans and preventing police reinforcements from reaching Bangkok from the northeast province of Udon Thani, the government said.

Another 300 protesters set up roadblocks on the outskirts of the capital Sunday afternoon to stop hundreds of other police from entering the city, police officials said.

Protesters in the Nong Kai province also tried to block police from heading to Bangkok, but the security forces changed their route, the government said.

Clashes in Bangkok have killed at least 26 people and wounded nearly 1,000 since the Red Shirts began occupying Bangkok's commercial center more than a month ago, closing down five-star hotels and shopping malls, paralyzing daily life in the city and costing merchants millions of dollars a day.

The conflict has been characterized by some as class warfare, pitting protesters from the country's vast rural poor against an elite that has traditionally held power.

"The solution process is ongoing but may not please everyone. The government, and not only the military, is preparing to be ready for what would lead to the next level," Abhisit said in a short statement to the interviewer.

He did not specify whether the "next level" meant security forces would move to clear the Red Shirt enclave, but government and military leaders have said that the protesters cannot remain in the heart of Bangkok indefinitely.

The program went off the air briefly, with the prime minister later blaming the disruption on "ill-intentioned people." Thailand's police force, army and other agencies are believed to be infiltrated by Red Shirt supporters, but it was unclear whether the opposition somehow disrupted the television signal.

Thai army chief Gen. Anupong Paochinda, who sat beside Abhisit, said the crisis must be solved by legal means and denied there were any significant divisions within military ranks.

"Being a huge organization, it's possible but the number isn't significant enough to say that the military is divided. More importantly, everyone strictly follows orders," he said.

"We won't use violence but as I've said earlier, the situation has escalated toward violence so the military will have to adjust its measures," the army chief said.

While stopping short of accusing the Red Shirts, Abhisit said that rocket-propelled grenades fired in Thursday's violence in the heart of the city's financial district were launched from a protest stronghold by "terrorists." At least one person was killed Thursday, and 25 others died April 10 during clashes as soldiers unsuccessfully tried to clear the protesters from one of their camps.

Abhisit said he initially underestimated the protest movement. "I admit, I didn't expect to see such a force ready to go this far," he said.

The protesters had previously demanded Parliament be dissolved immediately, while the government said it would disband parliament in six months.

The Red Shirts softened their stance Friday, offering a compromise of 30 days to disband the legislature in a move they said was aimed at preventing further bloodshed. Abhisit rejected that offer.

Meanwhile, six Red Shirts who had been camped at the protesters' increasingly disheveled stronghold in the streets of Bangkok tested positive for the swine flu, BMA General Hospital officials said Sunday.

The Red Shirts consist mainly of rural supporters of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and pro-democracy activists who opposed the military coup that ousted him in 2006. They believe Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments.

Thailand is getting what it deserves!

Other than Thais or falang with businesses linked to the tourist industry who really gives a flying fuc_k about the tourist industry here?

I care as much as a Thai cares about tourism in Iceland!!!

Well said and to the point.

BUT

When we get this angry or sick about the nonsense here, perhaps it is time to leave.

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

I just have a couple of points here. 1st. 20m of 60m is not a majority, 2nd the fact that so many people migrate to a more developed area from an less developed areas is not unique. mexico city, new york city, london, paris. etc.... job and opportunities are always more abundant where the majority of people live. 3rd. it is my bet that if the current batch of migrants left bkk they would be replaced very quickly by a other set immediatly. my final point and my biggest issue with yours and many others post who seem to think that the government is the cause of these poor peoples lack of ambition, personal accountablility, and motivation. let me ask you this as a long time resident of the n or ne why, do so many of the young girls up there have sex with family members (this is not a flame it is a fact) what causes these males to use their women in such ways? why is std rampant in these parts even though the govt has made great efforts to educate them? the point i am making is no govt can cure this mentality and obviously not all people from the ne are like this in fact many do raise themselves up from humble beginnings and prosper without selling their bodies. the thais in the north have schools just like the thais in the south, if they want change they should start by looking within themsleves 1st. but that is just mo and we all know what o's are worth.

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"1st. 20m of 60m is not a majority" You wrote.

You are incorrect.

http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand.html

2010, there were 22,334,000 in NE

There were 11,562,000 in the North.

That is nearly 34 million people.

FACT

I have just read this thread and for the first time I am compelled to join this forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion so I will give mine. It would appear that most people on this thread are based in the more affluent areas of Thailand and have never ventured further north than Don Muang Airport and if they have it has never been for any extended period.

Posters using phrases like 'minority rabble' just indicate their total ignorance of what is really happeninng in Thailand. How can 20,000,000 people be a minority. Yes 20,000,000, that is the amount of people living in the NE regions of Thailand. Add the North and they clearly have a majority. It has always been a non written policy of many previous thai Governments to keep these people poor and keep them this way so they go down to the 'smoke' and take jobs to help feed their families. Without these people BKK would shut in a few days. Posters should be aware if all migrants workers went home South of Ayuttyha would cease to function.

Sorry I slightly digressed there. This is a class war between the old elite and the new money. The old elite has paid the army to do there dirty work for centuries. When they dont like a government they call a General and we have them removed. The new money has enlisted the help of the poor to further their cause but there will be a price to pay when they finally take power. The poor have now been empowered and the genie is out of the bottle and he is not going back. Forget Thaksin, he is just the bus driver for this crusade and on his return he understands he will have to retain that support to keep power.

Living amongst these people I have realised Thaksin is just a figurehead who either personally, or with help from interested parties, has managed to raise enough funds to keep this protest thriving. These people want social reform and a bigger piece of the pie.

There can only be one outcome if you think logically. That outcome may come tomorrow or 1 year from now or 10 years from now, but be sure it will come. This is not just about fair elections it about winning back power that was unlawfully stole from them in a coup. Not only do they want elections, the leaders of this movement want removal of all the money families that run Thailand. You remove them and there is nobody to instigate another coup. The 'Amataya (elite) will do whatever it takes to keep a grip on this country, even throw grenades into their own supporters to cause one side to fight the other. They are looking for a reason, to justify to the watching world, a ruthless crackdown.

What is scaring the current elite is the finances flowing into this movment and where it might be coming from. That takky chappie has been on a jolly around the world for 3 years.... I dont think so. I believe he has been flying around garnering support to enable his return. Making promises to smaller nations of trade links and access to do business in Thailand in return for donations to his movement. Haven't the arabs been trying to get access to grow rice here but have been told you can only own 49%. Paints a nice picture for Thaksin,returns to power and then changes current legislation to allow the arabs 100% access to grow rice here. Oh where is all the rice grown.... yes red shirt country and they will get xxx more money per tonne. Game over..Tilt. Dont you just love this guy

The above is just a scenario of what might be happening but please take your blinkers off and forget your own insignificant life and see things from both sides. Thaksin is a poor man by Thailands elite standards and cannot afford to finance this movement alone. Somebody is helping him.

Yes my support leans towards the reds but I want a peaceful conclusion to all this and no more deaths. I have got 3 children born here in Isaan and if somebody does not remove these faceless people from power my kids may grow up with no prospects, no money and no future. I apologise to all living in Bkk and my feelings to all grieving relatives on both sides.

This fight for reform was won two years ago when that funeral pyrah( maybe mispelt) was lit.

I just have a couple of points here. 1st. 20m of 60m is not a majority, 2nd the fact that so many people migrate to a more developed area from an less developed areas is not unique. mexico city, new york city, london, paris. etc.... job and opportunities are always more abundant where the majority of people live. 3rd. it is my bet that if the current batch of migrants left bkk they would be replaced very quickly by a other set immediatly. my final point and my biggest issue with yours and many others post who seem to think that the government is the cause of these poor peoples lack of ambition, personal accountablility, and motivation. let me ask you this as a long time resident of the n or ne why, do so many of the young girls up there have sex with family members (this is not a flame it is a fact) what causes these males to use their women in such ways? why is std rampant in these parts even though the govt has made great efforts to educate them? the point i am making is no govt can cure this mentality and obviously not all people from the ne are like this in fact many do raise themselves up from humble beginnings and prosper without selling their bodies. the thais in the north have schools just like the thais in the south, if they want change they should start by looking within themsleves 1st. but that is just mo and we all know what o's are worth.

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Was that a joke?

KKK boys in America talk that way about African Americans and the KKK are scum.

cannot blame you fellas that you supports the Reds as your better half are form N/NE. anyhow, i can also tell you that not all people in that region are pro-reds. well at least none of my friends and definitely not my better half and in-laws.

what might be the reason behind?

perhaps because these non-reds supporters all studied in bangkok? now live and work in bangkok?

what i have observed is that they are all aware what thaksin had done as they have access to the news, internet, and integrated with the bangkok people.

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nonsense

Great post. However, I think the Isaan speaking population is closer to 26,000,000. At any rate, it's the largest regional (ethnic, if you will) population in Thailand.

Imangine those number of votes! Businessman Thaksin's marketing strategy really worked as he captured these Regions. He knows exactly what these people wants from a politician and he did exactly that. Good for the people though.

Yes 26 million and then add on North Thailand for another 10 million.

Just head North of Bangkok 50 miles and you are in Thai speaking areas still but the color is red.

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

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It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

I don't believe it does work like that Madi, as it is well-known there are 'watermelons' in feeding jatuporn et al with vital info from government meetings, and Anupong - the HEAD of the army - keeps saying he wont' crackdown and the solution is to dissolve parliamsent. So how exactly is the gov't a military backed dictatroship? If what you say is true, the army would have come out guns blazing a long time ago and it would never have got to this, witness North Korea. THAT'S what happens when you have a military backed dicatatorship.

I get your point and I had to explain things the way I did to be polite to Thai people.

But I will explain a little more. The head of state in Thailand is not the PM.

The constitutional and national loyalty of the Thai generals is to the Thai Head of State. Guess who that is? These top and very wealthy generals are from old wealthy families. They are nice men, I know many of them-have played golf with them. They are simply following the law. The head of state in Thailand is guess who? They love their nation deeply and their head of state as well.

If one looks at things legally this way, and these smart and loyal Thai men do, the Thai generals will follow the orders from the head of state.

A Thai educated man can and will say to you with a straight and honest face that their has been no removal of the head of state in Thailand and thus no coup in Thailand in his lifetime.

PS

I never said we had a military backed dictatorship in Thailand. You assumed that I did.

The nation is run by a committee of old money families with their head of state. No military man has run Thailand in my lifetime or likely yours.

Thanks for your polite response.

I could be way off base but I am at the moment seeing things this way. I do know Top Thai military personally.

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

Did you all read the latest economic data for Thailand's tourism meltdown?

The house is on fire and instead of putting out the fire, both sides are standing by and watching it burn.

The collateral damage of this event political argument could be lots of poor and middle class citizens losing their jobs.

Who would benefit from an economic meltdown in Thailand?

Perhaps one side or the other but who knows.

While people who yell fire in a room get lots of attention in the news here, the peace makers are working quietly and I do wish for their success.

Change is inevitable but how you get to the change is not inevitable destructive.

A peaceful and compromised and or slow change is possible.

Perhaps the best thing both sides could do now is to agree to a program improving education and health care for all the middle class and poor.

It takes decades to build a strong economy but only months to wreck it.

No one said change was easy.

I reject the thought that says negotiations have broken down.

I am sure many many sides are talking in good faith to move things forward.

It is the Thai way don't you know.

All sides will hopefully stay calm now.

My points to consider.

1) The problem is not the election but instead the push for a new constitution after the election.

2) There are huge financial interests that would favor a peaceful settlement.

3) The military is made up of people who certainly love their nation and do not want to fight their own brothers.

4) It would be better for all involved if the reds were to become more organized so that the reds could control and stop violent acts.

5) It would be better for all if the current Thai government were to become better organized so that the government could stop rogue elements from acts of violence.

6) Last but not least

Might I suggest a two house parliamentary system protecting the rights of the minority needs to be implemented as has been done in the UK for example. The landowners could have weight in their House of Lords and the people in the Parliament.A bill of rights must be added to the constitution which strongly protects property and voting rights.

LAST but extremely important

Pardons for all involved in past coups and or political actions on all sides must be put into place.

The game must start with a clean scoreboard.

One could see this as a failure of Thai culture but the low level of violence, after all there is no war here, is quite impressive given the strong feelings on all sides.

Long live the King

Yes Thaivisa

This start of the topic is a high point from you here on freedom of speech.

Thanky ou for posting the story from The Nation.

It was an excellant read and I am glad you gave us a chance to read it.

Well done.

Same old anti-red shirt lies trotted out...give us a break.

The rural people might be simple folk but they are not totally stupid....they know disenfranchisement when they see it...the red shirts are there to get a better economic deal for themselves by having an early election which they believe they will win, but the propagandists tell us it is to get Thaksin his millions back, make him the president or the 'weaken' the monarchy...it's blatant scaremongering...

When we look at this 'analysis' and see who are supposed to be the "chief supporters" of the red-shirts are according to the author, it's just about everybody in the country, except, of course, farangs who post on TV...and it's not old money vs new money....it's tons of money vs no money

Hey

Angry are you?

I am on your side so relax.

There are wealthy who are backing the revolt or are you unaware that Thaksan is rich.

HAAAA

But I want a new constitution and the monarchy removed totally from the political running of Thailand.

Is that what you want?

Does this mean some of the regular posters here will find their bars closed?

Oh what a shame.

But the story was well written and only the final conclusion is to be seen now.

Will we get a peaceful agreement between the Old ruling Elite and the new elite or will there be wide spread bloodshead?

All things man makes reach an end.

Its starting to get scary I hope the army shows restraint. The reds have a legitimate cause this govt came to power unelected, Iis Thailand a Democracy or dictatorship?

Hey Banff, are you new here or just ignorant of the facts. Learn what you are talking about at least before making your comments public. Do not trust everything your Isaan gf tells you. I hope you are not from Canada as you make us all look stupid with your comments.

The answer is it is a dictatorship.

Good post my friend from Canada.

Anyone here who thinks a nation that only allows puppet governments ruled by the elite is a democracy is mistaken.

Over 22 coups by the regime.

Students in the 70s wanted real democracy, they were shot down like dogs.

Go look at the pictures on the net all.

Again it happened and again and again.

The 1990s had the regime again shooting Thai students.

Tell me Westerners.

Would you crawl on your knees to talk to another man?

NO?

So why it is you think it is OK for Thai people to have to do it?

Are you racists or just ignorant?

And this was before this latest stuff. Meltdown

Over the past week, however, Thailand's gentle smile has become a grimace, and its welcome mat is stained with blood. On Saturday April 10, violence erupted between soldiers and anti-government protesters in Bangkok, leaving 24 dead and over 800 injured. No one is sure when and how the current political crisis will end. But the effect on tourism is expected to be devastating. Finance minister Korn Chatikavanij predicted that tourist arrivals will be "decimated," and warned that the country could lose two percentage points off its projected 5% GDP growth for the year if order is not rapidly restored. The cost of the political turmoil has yet to be tallied, but more than 70 charter flights hauling tourists from China have been canceled. Federation of Thai Tourism Association President Charoen Wanganon told the Bangkok Post that hotel occupancy in Bangkok had dropped by at least 30% for this time of year.

For hotels near the protest sites, however, the occupancy rate is zero. "This hotel is closed," said a black clad security guard from behind a red metal barrier in front of Bangkok's posh Greek-columned Grand Hyatt Erawan Hotel. "No one can check in. Only check out." Nearby, at the luxurious Four Seasons, Buddhist monks who joined the protest have strung up clothes lines across the manicured entrance garden and are drying their freshly laundered saffron robes. Both hotels are situated near an intersection occupied by tens of thousands of anti-government protesters known as the Red Shirts for the color they wear. The intersection, called Rajaprasong, is the capital's main commercial junction, home to six major shopping malls, several five-star hotels, office buildings housing many of Thailand's top local and international firms, and other businesses, most of which have completely shut down.

Time

Are you suggesting red shirts are behind these attacks? Please, give me a break. They have even asked for UN peacekeepers to protect them from the government. When they asked in parliament for an INDEPENDENT investigation into the April 10 killings, the Abhisit coalition declined. I wonder why? It doesn't take Einstein to see what's happening here. My suggestion? Put UN peacekeepers on the streets and then launch an independent investigation into the killings. Whatever the outcome, we'll have some clear evidence and no more killings without a face.

There you go cheque, regurgitating the latest Red line. UN peacekeepers? It's an internal affair, a clear case of an unruly mob taking over a section of a large city, and thereby causing major problems. A mob whipped in to a frenzy - to create as much havoc as possible for an absentee rich man who funds their antics.

You ask rhetorically, " Are you suggesting red shirts are behind these attacks?"

Answer: No I'm not suggesting ....I'm sure of it. The Reds are hel_l bent on causing as much mischief as they can. They're salivating at the idea of forcing security to act on their taunts. They should be eternally grateful that the security forces are led by lambs, otherwise there would be a lot of red blood pooled on the streets as we speak.

Any Red who has two brain cells working in tandem should get his/her butt out of Dodge. Now. Any Red who stays is asking for grave harm. They made their point weeks ago. Now all they're doing is making noise and trash and trying to provoke a bloody confrontation, as that's what their minders know is most likely to stain the current gov't and possibly bring T back to the PM's chair. ....and the Reds will get more money when that happens.

It just occured to me hearing your tuff talking and threats to the reds, that it would just take one farand shooting at the reds to make warfare on all Farangs open season.

Way to go.

1 dead

Sad indeed

Bombing a train is terrorism.

Why is it anyone here who is farang would defend this government?

You say no government is perfect and so it is.

But you then say, therefore all are equally bad?

nonsense

Obviously the government in Myanmar is not equal to the government in Thailand.

Thais have mush more freedom.

But Thailand has a long way to go.

It has not given the right to govern to the people.

It does not give elections the power to rule the nation. The over 22 coups proves that fact.

"A nation divided cannot stand." Lincoln

Thais must unite or the nation will split.

I too wonder why it is we have so many Thais here posting pretending to be farangs? Do you get paid? Give your real names and we can really talk.

AND--genaralgrant keeps asking you this.

Would you get on your knees and crawl to another man farangs?

NO

Changes are needed.

Nuff said.

madi, this is Thailand, the US constitution does not apply here, regardless of what you may desire. Please try to keep it on topic and relevant to the country we are in, cheers.

oh, and given that this argument is cropping up in every single thread on the news forum maybe we could even talk about the actual TOPIC.

Thai 'Red Shirts' Rule Out Talks Despite Looming Crackdown

I made my point. Thanks all.

Later--take care everyone.

Stay safe

Infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

These are also protected in Europe and all formerly British nations.

If you tell one side they cannot give a political opinion on another person or group, you are not a democratic nation.

We all know this as a fact.

Imagine America in 2008 unable to criticize the Republican party or GW Bush.

How could that be anything close to a democracy.

The current President is called every name in the book by the Republicans.

GOOD.

Freedom of speech and Press.

Thailand does not allow free speech and press against major power groups.

It is not free.

Even here, we cannot say things for fear of this site being shut down.

Must we say more?

Here in Thailand, the reds are asking for basic civil rights that are recognized in Europe, and North America, Australia, New Zealand and even Japan.

While none of these nations is perfect, they do attempt to allow for real democratic rule. Thailand clearly does not.

what basic civil right are you talking about? Elections? Elections are scheduled to take place at regular intervals according to the constitution as they are in all the countries you mention. The red shirts want to circumvent that and bring it around earlier. The gov't negotiated 9 months, then offered 6 months. What, precisely, is the reason the reds will not accept either of these compromises? Please tell, because I have yet to hear any red leaders give a single good reason.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

There is no 'right' side when it comes to the reds and yellows.

They both have well intentioned, good hearted rank and file Thais who are being pushed into the front lines to help their millionaire and billionaire corrupt leaders get into the seats of corruption in a corruption prone political system.

Why choose one pack of crocodiles over another???

Try to drain the swamp!

The underlying cause of airport shut downs and today's riots is a BROKEN political design that breeds corruption and sets up fights over getting snoots into the pig trough.

Has been for 80 years, will be for the next 100. Over 70% of Thais 'know this'. They do NOT join yellow or red shirts. They are the Mute Majority. They are the 'smart' and 'useless' ones who don't go out and get trampled by multi colored elephants. While they have no voice, they are highly preferable to loud and stupid voices of the reds and yellows.

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There are Systems, Remedies and Solutions that would give Thailand a stable, peaceful and prosperous future with greatly reduced corruption; but they have made 'laws' to make it impossible to even talk about the changes that would have to take place to 'drain the swamp'. It's the 'don't touch My bananas' fences that will keep Thailand repeating 'these' current events, over and over and over, anon.

Pretty soon the gangland bosses, on ALL sides, might t recognize the severe damage being caused to Their pig trough and call a gangland truce, before they end up winning scraps, instead of bowls of chicken soup. They would SELL it as great political reform, but it would actually be a dividing up of the corruption cookies and the status quo will remain, until they next BIGGER don comes along to go for it all, again.

Good post. Agree 100%

Yep there is a lot of truth in that post. Some applies outside of Thailand too

Good stuff - I am in agreement and posted something similar in another thread..

If you could stop flinging mud at each other for just a nanosecond, one would realize that none of the players here are any better than each other - it's one huge ugly mess that the country has complacently brought upon itself over many years of allowing fiefdoms, corruption, lying, cheating, face-saving and thinking that all these ways are the the norm , right from the small boy in the village to the 200bt policeman, to the bar girl and the farang, all the way to the top of government and the army - self-implosion has always been the likely result as has happened in so many other countries, particularly African where similar practices have gone on for decades...

You say, "one would realize that none of the players here are any better than each other."

So, if a fight breaks out, all are always equally to blame? I disagree.

When the Blacks marched in Selma Mississippi for civil rights and were attacked by the government of Mississippi, they were not both equally to blame. One side was asking for civil rights and the other side was denying them those rights.

Here in Thailand, the reds are asking for basic civil rights that are recognized in Europe, and North America, Australia, New Zealand and even Japan.

While none of these nations is perfect, they do attempt to allow for real democratic rule. Thailand clearly does not.

My opinion

Is my opinion illegal in Thailand? Point made.