madi

Why is it any farang care?

It is none of their business.

You are all just visitors here in case you did not know it.

You cannot vote.

You cannot own property.

No one gives a rat's what you think about their politics here in Thailand.

The Reds and Yellows both agree on these things.

Party

Enjoy

But leave the politics to Thais when in Thailand.

The first three years involved lots of drinking, bars and going out with Friends.

The last two years have involved exercising and enjoying my cats and dogs.

How times have changed,,,

Most people go home.

But if you like the quiet of being in another land where you are always an outsider, Thailand is good for that.

I have lived in a few nations and Thailand is alright. But--it is not home is it.

Still, it is one of my homes.

What I like about being in my native nation is being able to joke with almost any man on the street and to get a nice response.

Of course your money does go further here in Thailand so that is a positive for most people if they are retired.

It all just depends.

If you already have a woman you like and money, 99% of people are better off in their home where ever that might be.

Here in Thailand Non Thais are and always will be foreigners and outsiders.

I bet most all will go home if they can.

That said--for some it is a great home away from home and a place that makes them happy.

It all depends. HAAA HAAA

Just viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

You are funny. How sulpher fumes rise. HAAAA AAAAAA

Maybe you know when you heat air you can put it in a balloon and it goes up. Oil is very very heavy but when the oil fires were burning in Kuwait, the air did go up a few thousand feet. So much for my basic physics for children.

Here it is for kids.

http://www.historyforkids.org/scienceforki...hotairrises.htm

Slam dunk. Madi. You spotted the troll.

I was just thinking that smoke from the sparklers drifts in the air so how can the fumes be ruled out as a contributing factor?

Clearly some people have no moral credibility if they are willing to troll on this topic.

I think the people who are talking about the fumes igniting are likely correct.

The little New years toys give off a gas. It was very warm and did rise to the ceiling. That much is KNOW DOUBT true. It is extremely likely that something ignited the fumes at the ceiling and the disaster then occurred.

Take to mind people that a fireman who is experienced will be able to tell if the fire started on the outside of the roof or in the inside of the roof. They will be able to tell where the hottest burn area was. They also will be able to tell where the fire began. They can tell this from examination.

If the fire started inside or out will be clear.

What started the fire is still not clear but what fueled the fire is. The fumes from the hundreds of little fireworks flames gave the fuel. Did an electrical wire start the fire or did a fireworks? it does not matter much since without the fuel stuck on top of the inside of the roof, the same little Spark would have done no damage.

Letting 1000 people use the flames giving off a hot gas was the disaster.

Once the fumes were ignited, they spread with the hot gas fumes. That is why the entire place seemed to catch fire all at once.

A normal fire would have started in just one area slowly and then increased and spread. But as we all know a fire based on a gas explodes.

You play with your gas stove and you know that.

The little burning toys in their hands caused the disaster and this will likely be the report.

I am a father of two and this story is sad. The young kids were just having fun and this terrible thing happened.

I agree that the building was unsafe without the needed fire exits. Look how many died in the basement trying to get out. Yet most did get out and for that I am thankful.

My feelings go out to all who lost so much.

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

You are funny. How sulpher fumes rise. HAAAA AAAAAA

Maybe you know when you heat air you can put it in a balloon and it goes up. Oil is very very heavy but when the oil fires were burning in Kuwait, the air did go up a few thousand feet. So much for my basic physics for children.

Here it is for kids.

http://www.historyforkids.org/scienceforki...hotairrises.htm

Sad

This kind of thing can and does happen in every nation so I am not one who looks to bash Thailand over this. It is not nice to kick people when they are down.

But of course all nations can do more with safety in places where so many people are crowded together. A good sprinkler system could have helped in this case. More exits also would have saved lives. If the political leaders would listen to the fireman, this kind of thing could be made far less likely to happen.

But again, this thing happens in every nation.

My thoughts go out to the Mom's and Dads who have lost the most important thing in their lives.

Instead of we all calling people names in anger we should all push for better laws on fire prevention and for strong enforcement for such laws. I think it is something that can be done to make this tragedy at least worth something. Listen to the Fireman and they can tell us all what is needed.

So sorry

So India, the Middle East (think falling oil prices) and Asia are immune from this. Sure glad they can put a positive spin on things.

I have no doubt that Thailand will continue to attract tourists, however, I would tend to think it might be a good time to start treating them a little better.

but its not just Thailand not attracting tourists, globally tourism is on the way to the bottom along with the car industry

I an living here in Bangkok.

I have never in my 10 years here seen the town so empty of tourists.

Maybe you did not read this but as you can see, the new PM says that Thailand has already begun a recession. He says we have negative growth this quarter and will have it again next. That is a recession and historically this Q4 will be the start when listed. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Lots of world leaders have tried to put a good face on it but when it is all said and done likely pretty much every nation on the planet will suffer a recession this time.

Europe is down.

North America is down.

Japan and Korea are down.

China will be the last nation to go down but it will go down as well.

No man is an island is the old saying.

Well in terms of economics it can be said that no nation is an island.

This will last a few years so watch and learn. Very few of us can remember the 1930s so very few of us have ever seen what is going to happen.

Difference is unlike last time, this time the governments are trying to print and borrow like madmen to keep unemployment from going to 23% as it did in the 1930s. No one knows what will happen as they do this. Could we end up with our money worth nothing?

Could happen.

That is why people are buying gold.

My guess is that this could last many years.

The Party in Thailand is over.

Time to grow up and go to work all.

Good luck

Indian democracy????

Thai politicians would look like angels over there.

Patronage means you have to go alone with your patron's choices of ideology. When the boss changes party affiliation, so do you.

Now that the Americans paid homage to democracy by electing Obama, their politicians can resume life as they know it until when? Next eight years under the likes of GWB? One Obama doesn't make up for the lunacy of the past decade or so.

It was 8 years although it did seem like 10. HAA HAA

GW was a jerkoff but compared to Hitler, he was an angel. How many people died from Hitlers wars?

Was it 25 million or so?

GW has not even gotten close to the idiot from Germany but as soon as Hitler was gone, Americans were ready to make peace with them.

I think the same will be true as bush leaves.

Democracy is not perfect. But look at the alternatives.

Can you imagine if America was not a democracy and GW could stay in power like Hitler did?

I think Thai politicians looking like angels is a sign you are indeed unaware of how smart Thai politicians are and how nasty they can be in holding power. Angles? HAAA HAAA

The Thais in power do everything that idiot in Illinois did as governor and then some. Difference is they do not get caught or even if they do get caught, they use power and money to get out of it.

The corruption in Thailand is so common place that we are all shocked when it does not appear.

tell me what politician is in jail here for taking bribes?

illinois has one ex governor in prison now and another will soon join.

Obviously the Thais are superior in the corruption game.

A coup is when a government is over thrown. It has never hap[pend in America. Only a child would say that one person is a party.

I'm going to take this quote away form the Lincoln discussion and apply it to Thailand.

In Western-type democracies, there are political parties that have relatively cohesive ideological platforms. The platforms are fluild, but generally one knows the idealogical and policy leanings of Democrats v Republicans or Conservative/Christian Democrat v Social Democrat and so on.

In Thailand, political parties are simply groups of people that band together because they view it as a way to gain power/help business interests, etc.

The problem with the TRT/PPP/PTP is that it increasingly seemed to be about one Person, and not about any actual long-term policies.

The Democrats? Not sure what they're long-term policies are either. Most of their last platform didn't really differ much from the PPP, particularly regarding social/rural development (which apparently was the reason rural northern/Issan supported the PPP).

As long as Thai politics are only about People, we are are continuously going to experience these same problems.

Ideology vrs Patronage is the biggest difference between political party systems in the "West" vrs the "East". Which is why applying concepts of "western style" democracy are doomed to fail. Each country needs to find its own way.

Actually the whole experience of the last few months will, I believe, turn out to be a great moment of growth for the country, when we look back on it many years from now.

Wow

Talk about trying to put the best face on a bad situation.

Funny how Japan can do democracy.

India can do it too.

I think they are in what you would call 'THE EAST".

So that seems to make that argument pretty lame. (Weak)

The military and the Police refusing to protect an elected government is a High point? How about a court put in by the last military junta using its power under a constitution put in by the same military junta, to over throw a democratically elected government. You see that as a move toward democracy? I think it was just a new way to do a coup that would make the world not notice as much.

But ok--we can all disagree. I am sure you wanted the old style government here and sure do not want people in Issan taking control. Why is it you in bangkok use secret codes for what you really think and want. You do not want people in Issan to have a strong say in who runs Thailand and you do not care how many votes they cast or how many elections their people win.

I would respect your view a lot more if you were honest and told us why it is that your view is best for Thailand. I am sure you might have an argument there. But this nonsense about Thai style democracy and East and West is laughable.

Korea has a democracy. Japan, India, and so on and so on also have democracy and they are Asian nations.

Why is the Elite in Bangkok care so little for the poor of Issan? You are making them very very angry. It would be best to stop ruling them as if they are all peasants to work for you like slaves.

Time to leave the 19th century behind and move forward Thailand.

Is it just me, or does this get more pathetic everyday?

I agree. I think it's disgusting that a mob of anti government protestors should be allowed to hold the country to ransom the way they did.

Democracy my a*se! This is no way to behave in a Democratic society. All you yellow shirts should be ashamed of how you have behaved. You behaved like the baby who never got his chocolate!

When a government is voted in Democratically then you should abide by this government and accept that your side lost. Next election time you make a better case for your party and try and win.

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

I think I speak for a lot of the democratic countries across the world when I say that we look upon your actions with shame and disgust. There is no glory in the way you have (and are) behaved.

You missed that TRT AND PPP were dissolved for vote buying???

Civilized countries don't have vote buying, so they don't need the PAD.

Your examples USA and Great Britain say it all. Most Europeans don't see the USA as a democracy. You can only select one of two parties with almost the same ideas. That's an even worse democracy than Thailand.

Factually you are of course wrong.

Americans have over a dozen parties on the ballot.

Any party can run and qualify in America.

And there has never been a coup in America throwing out the elected government.

Presidents can be removed but they are then replaced by their own VP from their own party in America.

You are either uneducated or untruthful or both.

A coup is not what a democracy allows.

A place that has endless coups is certainly not a functioning democracy.

Let us all start with the obvious points that we all understand as facts.

Thailand is a nation and can do what ever it pleases as far as immigration goes. It is their home and they not apologize for changes. not that they ever would. HAA HAA

If tomorrow it said all people from a particular nation could not enter, it would be perfectly in its rights as a sovereign nation to do so.

Let me start back around 1998.

Thailand had been devastated by an economic collapse. It was in desperate need of cash and so it opened up to foreigners from the west to come and stay. Thailand turned its head to immigration laws and allowed people to over stay, work, and what have you.

Then the economy started to recover and the laws and rules started to tighten.

Currently it is hard for me to understand those who argue and complain about what we can do nothing about. Thailand is closing the door slowly on western foreigners who want to live here unless you happen to be 50 and older or if you are married.

Is it so different in other nations?

Well yes it is.

You see, here, even you married and retired must report every 90 days and you are not residents under Thai law. You have no right here to own property. You cannot vote. You are shut out of most jobs even if you do work here under a valid work permit. Even married people are treated like crap.

Compare this to a very difficult nation to get into--America. if you are married to an American you can get in and work immediately. You can vote in local elections but not the national ones. You can hold the vast majority of jobs other than the ones which require national security Clarence. You can own all the property you wish to. All of this is true for most of western Europe as well.

Not only all this but after 2 years and 9 months on a green card, you can apply and easily get Citizenship in America.

Just imagine you can be a fireman, a cop, a worker at a tech company or whatever. A Farang cannot do that here. Land of smile? maybe they are smiling because we are so so stupid to be here.

We are just visitors.

That is what the Thai law says.

Likely they will shut the door more and more as time goes by.

We all say the Green and Red fighting and they hate each other here. But--they both agree that they want to push farangs out.

That smile you get here is meaningless.

The hardcore bar nuts will stay. This is funny because these are the people that Thailand would most like to get rid of is it not? yes

But the hard working family people that would be a positive for Thai communities are all forced to leave. I agree this is a stupid policy Thailand has but I do respect their right to be xenophobic nuts. it is their funeral.

Just give it up people and follow the rules. if the rules seem unacceptable to you, go home or to another nation of choice. Thailand clearly does not care.

Why is it you people are so desperate to say here?

it is nicer to live in Paris, London, Tokyo, new York, and on and on and on.

Funny thing is there you can drink beer too.

The people actually might like you.

Conclusion.

Thailand wants you to leave.

Are you waiting for the foot to kick you in the ass before you leave?

Good luck

First--Of course Thailand can and will do what ever it wants about immigration. It is perfectly in its rights to do so.

Does Thailand want people from Europe, the Americas, and Africa to live here? NO

Thus we see the facts.

A legally married man under 50 cannot stay here based upon that marriage. He must be working or have another way to get his stay. Funny thing is that most jobs here are illegal for him to do. So in essence, almost all foreigners here are treated as temporary. GO HOME says Thailand.

I do not care but this is the way it is.

Now for those of you uneducated dweebs who say that Europe and North Americas do the same. That simply is not true. If you are married you can and will get in to those nations unless you have some listed disease or a criminal record. You will be able to work legally at almost all jobs. After you stay a few years, you will be able to become a citizen in most. The USA says 2 years and 9 months after you get your green card, you can apply for citizenship.

Of course Thailand does NOT treat people from Europe and the rest equally.

That is a fact.

Now if you want to retire, OK--you can report every 90 days and re-new your stay each year while still staying in Thailand but you are still not a resident are you. You cannot own land. You are a second class citizen here. All this for what? Fun? Fare enough but fun gets old after a time.

I am surprised that so many people want to stay here and suffer economical. The jobs, most, pay very low.

There are other nations.

There is always your home nation.

Most all of you will end up going home.

Thailand will never be your home. They do not want you.

I respect Thailand and their rights here. It IS their nation and when in Rome, we must accept the Roman rules. of course we all have the right to leave. if you leave, most Thais are happy to see us all go.

The political act here in Thailand is a joke.

You bringing up GW does not change that fact does it.. By the way, America just had an election and elected a Black man. No coup there. In fact your Bush bashing, well deserved by GW, only shows how solid the American system is. He was and is very unpopular in America but there is NO coup.

I could say the same about the political act in America.

One president starts a war on false pretences that has left 10's of thousands of people dead, and gets 2 terms in office. Even after all his justifications for starting the war were proven false, no attempt was made to remove him from office (can't impeach a president during a war ! Even if it's one he started for suspect reasons and has lead to more American deaths than 9/11.)

Another president gets a BJ in the White House and has to face impeachment hearings. Guess old Billy should have invaded another country too.

So, to sum up those two examples.

Start a war - Get a 2nd term in office.

Get a BJ - Get Impeached (or nearly so).

Yes, there hasn't been a coup in America (yet). But then again, GW and others haven't (openly) changed laws for their personal benefit. GW and others haven't tried amending the constitution to save their own necks. GW and company haven't tried (or threatened) to impeach the Supreme Court to prevent a ruling that was unfavourable to them.

And do you think that the American people would just sit back in their easy chairs sipping their ice tea, if their government had tried doing all that ?

Do you think that if a few years down the road, GW is found charged with a crime, found guilty, sentenced to prison, flees the country, and then (openly) exerts control of the government through proxies and fomenting unrest, that the American people would just sit back and say

"Gosh golly darn Martha, I really don't like what is happening, our country is in trouble and our democracy is threatened, but I'll just sit here and watch it go down the tubes, and hope that it all sorts itself out. After all, I wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone by trying to defend my country."

Hmmm, during the "Kent State Massacre" who were the terrorists, the students protesting America's invasion of Cambodia, or the Ohio National Guard that opened fire on them ?

It seems a lot of people here, from older, more established democracies, really wanted to see blood flowing in the streets.

Gees, too bad you guys weren't around during the American Revolution ! You could have jumped up, grabbed your trusty musket and shot those pesky upstart colonials that wanted to throw out the ruling British. Can you imagine the nerve of those colonials, inconveniencing a large part of the country (at the time) by dumping huge quantities of tea into the harbour !

Thailand's democracy is in it's infancy compared to America's and (most) of Europe's. There has been a lot of turmoil over the 70+ years since they started out, and they have a ways to go yet.

How it gets played out in the end depends on the Thai people.

Madi, the fact that Obama was elected doesn't have anything to do with "media - truth" relation.

No thanks for going off point.

Nixon resigned, he didn't wait for the coup. None of the Thai PMs resigned volunarily - so here for your comparison between Thai and US politics.

Actually Chuan I resigned after a land scandal, and Chavalit resigned after mishandling 1997 crisis - prior to TRT/PPP politicians felt responsible before the people. That has clearly changed.

Some people do not like to be told the truth.

Why say something that all educated people know is nonsense?

You said this. "Nixon resigned, he didn't wait for the coup. None of the Thai PMs resigned volunarily - so here for your comparison between Thai and US politics."

Nixon resigned before being removed under the Constitution in America by the US Congress. His party was NOT removed. It was not outlawed. No court can remove a president in a real democracy and you know it. Only the Congress or Parliment can do that.

He was not thrown out for being on a cooking show. HAAA HAAA

You remind me of someone who sees a mass murderer and defends him by saying we all make mistakes.

HAAAA HAAA

Keep it up because it makes me laugh.

HAAAAA

Trade tariffs are coming and then you will of course call everyone in the world names.

Bangkok correspondents are first class with excellent networks and comprehension.

Yeah, right.

There are plenty of news stories from international agencies posted here - at best they translate reports in Thai media, and editorials and opinions always look like written for imbeciles.

Apologists for the PAD will always find a reason to question reports on Thailand in the Western press, some through bizarre conspiracy theories, some through ignorance and denial and some because they cannot bear to hear the truth.

Western media and the truth... Everyone apparently forgot WMD fiasco as if it had never happened.

The political act here in Thailand is a joke.

You bringing up GW does not change that fact does it.. By the way, America just had an election and elected a Black man. No coup there. In fact your Bush bashing, well deserved by GW, only shows how solid the American system is. He was and is very unpopular in America but there is NO coup.

Thanks for making the point.

They have never had a coup.

Even when a president like Nixon was forced to resign, he was replaced by his own VP from his own party. That is the system there.

When the economy looks a lot more like Burma here, maybe you will see that the coup idea is a a bad one.

Trade tariffs will hit here in time.

Oh well

The end of that Coup and we will await the new election where the same oh same oh will start all over again.

It goes like this.

The courts, appointed very undemocratically, do everything possible to lean the election towards its choices. But, the Issan people and the suburbs of bangkok elect another party that wants to help poor people a little. The Elite say they buy votes even though its own party it backes buys the same votes and even tries to pay more.

This outrages the elite of Bangkok and soon they start attacking this newly elected group using the same bought and owned puppet court system that was put in by the last Coup government.

The baht by this time will be over 45 to the dollar which tourists like but this time will be different. The crime will be all over the place and the tourists, still angry about the airport thing, will go other places.

Another coup will come.

By this time the international democratic nations will have had it from the Thai elite. Trade sanctions just like the ones put on Burma will hit Thailand driving it into an economic disaster.

But still no new elections since every-time they have them, the poor people just North and North east of Bangkok continue to elect the same kinds of candidates.

When the baht hits 80 the crime will be unbearable here for the tourists left and all will run home. That will please the radical Elite political groups but anger businesses greatly.

3 years go by and Thailand will start to look very much the same as Myanmar. Many many of the educated and rich Thais will have run to live in other nations. Poor people all run home to the countryside and Bangkok looks like a bunch of empty buildings.

Good thing is there will be no traffic.

Air pollution will be better.

HAAA HAAAA

Can't we all just get along.

Rodney King

We won't get fooled again.

The Who

This is just round 2 of the fight.

Funny that the elite think this will work.

The elite won round 2 using its own hand picked court again. Maybe you do not remember but this court was picked out by the last Coup government. HAAA HAAA

Problem is that it must again have a fair election and then the same people will elect their favorites again.

If it does not hold elections it will face world trade sanctions from most modern nations.

if it does hold elections, it will lose again.

Then we have the possibility of a split in the military.

Chaos.

Meltdown to continue

quote from today's editorial in the Nation newspaper:

"Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has no sense of the damage being done to the country. He is like Humpty Dumpty, sitting on the fence as if nothing has happened. He was shown on TV visiting a temple in Nakhon Phanom while the country collapses around us. He has showed no leadership because he has no leadership qualities at all."

So do you agree with that statement or disagree with it?

The PM ordered the Police to empty the airports and they refused to do so.

He likely has ordered the military to do so and they of course also say no.

Now that might seem like a failure on his part but back in our own nations the military generals would be prosecuted for treason. They certainly would be fired. The Police chiefs would also all be removed.

But of course we are from democracies where the loyalty is to the nation and not the army or its bosses.

So I do not blame the PM.

The economy is in meltdown.

Take a look at those crowded streets full of cars now. Most of those cars will be off the streets just as they were in 1998 when the economy here crashed. but this time it will be far worse.

This time Thai people are fighting. There is near chaos. How long before the little law and order we have breaks completely down here?

How can a court remove a government? That cannot happen in any real democracy can it. Only the Congress can remove an American president. Only the Parliament can remove a PM in other democracies. How many coups has Thailand had/s it 20 or more? I think so.

Can you imagine your head of government telling your police or military to remove a small mob and the same refusing to do so? HAAA HAAA No chance

Of course Thailand is not now nor has it ever been a democracy. it has tried to make the world believe it is one but that game is now over.

It is just a matter of time now before the world hits Thailand with trade sanctions and this place becomes like Burma.

All because the rich upper class here want the under classes on their knees. They are not happy unless they have the majority of Thais uneducated and crawling on the ground. This is what makes the upper class happy here.

Those trade tariffs to come will make Thailand a wreck.

Hey Thai people. I might be stupid and all we farangs are stupid. That makes you happy to say and think that right. But I know when someone is robbing me and when my life in my home nation is wrecked, it is not someone in another nation that did this to me. It is people in my home that did it to me.

Look at your homes here. You have barbed wire fences all around all of them. Why is that/ because Thai people rob you for sure if you do not do so. Your Thai brothers are the problem and you scream at people on vacation. Pathetic.

Good luck

Grow up Thailand

If this thing in Thailand turns violent, hardly any of the fa-rang will still be here after. They can and will run home or to another place. It is the Thais that are stuck in the mess.

i'm not Thai, nor married to a Thai woman. and i don't live here for the tits and ass. i won't "run home" or "to another place". people, we really need to stop talking out of our asses!

Name calling?

HAAA HAAA

So you are here for the big money you make here?

HAAAA HAAAAA

Learn to read. I said, "Hardly any". That is not me saying no fa-rang is it.

What job do you do here where you make more money then you would make in your home nation?

You love the clean air here?

maybe it is the smooth flow of traffic you enjoy.

The safety of having to have barbed wire fences over your home might be what you love here.

Yeah sure--

HAAAA HAAAA

5th of DEC they`ll leave right???.....for majesty`s birthday??

No reason to assume so. It depends on events between now and then.

I was curious about this too. A lot of Thais I talk to seem to assume so.

The good news for you Yanks is that you have a new president that most like and the rest of the world is still filled with chaos.

WOW

You hold an election and the winner takes office and no one tries to over-throw the government?

Amazing.

The English of course got this idea going first before the Yanks. A good idea English.

Most of the world is still not quite up to speed on the idea of law and order and fair elections.

If this thing in Thailand turns violent, hardly any of the fa-rang will still be here after. They can and will run home or to another place. It is the Thais that are stuck in the mess.

Too bad for them.

Condo-bk...

regarding the 'creative thinking' comment do you have any facts to call upon that show corruption was higher under Thaksin? Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the guy, but so far we've just got that corruption index and that goes contrary to what you're saying. Obviously if you've nothing concrete to call upon your comment holds no weight whatsoever.

Do you really asking for corruption statistics?

"we've just got that corruption index" - come on, be real. How many PMs were convicted on corruption charges?

Well ........ not Thaksin actually ---- do you really imagine he was????

Thaksin was convicted (5 for -- 4 against) for signing a document acknowledging his wife's purchase of land (as must all Thai husbands)

Thus allowing a charge of conflict of interest to be brought against him --- as he was a government member.

The crime of the century!!! ..... I love it when the calls go out for INTERPOL ---- track this man down before he does it again !!!!!

No matter what side, if any, you are on, you all know this airport thing has Thailand looking like a complete joke to the rest of the world.

The BBC spends a lot of time on the topic too.

Now that the India thing is fading away, Thailand can go back to the front page again for the international news.

OK--a Supreme court put into office by an illegal-unelected Coup, will throw out an elected government? I know ,most of you here are unaware of how a democracy works but NO COURT can remove a leader in a real democracy. Only the congress in America can do that and only the Parliament can do it in most others.

Who elected the court?

HAAAA HAAAA

Comical here.

Well anyway--Thailand is in meltdown and most of you, even the hardcore bar lovers, will leave if the shooting gets to your area.

Can we say MELTDOWN?

The PPP will be dissolved 100% on Tuesday ,and under Thai law the Judges desicion cannot be questioned ,the PPP will

be forced to accept and dissolve the party , funny how the PAD do not accet the descion ageist them to leave the airport

but want the PPP to accept the desicion against them , The PAD are hypocrites of the highest nature ,and have no respect for

any law , also the PAD agenda about the poor not being allowed to vote as they are not educated enougth , there is a word for that

it,s called RACISM, just as the world is trying to stop it ,these guys want to introduce it as democracy

On Dec. 2. the hearing is the last chance for the Party Leader to voice their statements. The decision will be after that, maybe NOT on the same day.

According the Court Order against the PAD: that's different because that Court order was done by an Civil Court and there is an 15 days period for to appeal. The PAD did NOT need to follow that order immediatly and the PAD has announced that they will appeal against that order! Just as the aw told!

If you and others writing statements like you did, better get informed before and don't just repeat the rumors!

Cheers.

Since when do Thai people care what the court says?

By the way--isn't this the court that was put in my a military government that also did a coup and was not elected?

Seems to me that you have to start with a constitution put in my a democratic people.

The current set up was put in my a coup.

It is too too funny hearing people refer to this piece of rag paper as if it means something.

I have every confidence in the Police to handle this situation.

[/quote

Homer needs to come here and rung the show.

Just some quick thoughts.

Maybe we have a power vacuum causing this or at least adding to the trouble.

While most of the generals, but not all would back the red, the vast majority of the foot solders back the red.

The police too are split.

This is not a joke and the disagreements are real and profound.

Joking about this would make you feel bad if you woke up to Find a thousand dead in a fight in the future.

If Thailand rejects democracy it will for sure be hit with huge trade tariffs from nations.

The economy is imploding.

I hope for the best but fear from the worst.

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, .....

he did, and he did do many good things for Thailand and the sad thing is that he of all people had the chance to really lead and carry Thailand into its next era. To be the Lee Kwan Yew of the 21st Century. Unfortunately his shortsight destroyed him , where instead of focusing on Thailand, he only focused on himself. with great power comes greater responsibility. for this reason he is a failure and disgrace - the one who could have made changes, but was blinded by petty greed.

Final battle in Bangkok a Pyrrhic victory

By Awzar Thi

Column: Rule of LordsPublished: November 27, 2008

People’s Alliance for Democracy members camp out at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport on Nov. 25, 2008. The group has forced the airport to close, stranding hundreds of travelers. (Photo/PAD)

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Hong Kong, China — Organizers of the prolonged raid on the Bangkok international airport have insisted that they will bring down the government at any cost. In targeting the airport they have taken a dramatic strategic step and have also made a move of enormous symbolic importance.

Suvarnabhumi Airport represents modern Thailand. The new airport was a huge project aimed not only at cementing the country’s commercial place in Asia but also at demonstrating how far it has come by comparison to most of its immediate neighbors.

Under normal circumstances, legions of security personnel would have protected the terminal, accompanied by the dire warnings of senior officers about anyone thinking to damage national prestige with funny business that might upset foreign tourists and businesspeople. Under normal circumstances, the police would have quickly moved to prevent or end any seizure, just as they did when protests occurred on government premises against the interim military regime last year.

But these are not normal circumstances. Crowds have already spent months occupying Government House, defying court orders to vacate, as well as one attempt to forcibly dislodge them. Now they are seemingly also at liberty to camp out in Thailand’s showpiece airport, with the expectancy that another military putsch will bump both them and the incumbent government out.

All these events speak to the complex interests that are at work behind and through the cynically named People’s Alliance for Democracy.

The alliance has been operating an armed and dangerous security force with impunity, yet its leaders have over the last few months moved around freely, apparently without fear that any of Thailand’s quarter-of-a-million police officers will make an arrest. They have refused investigators access to crime scenes in premises that they have occupied. They have illegally detained other citizens, and have declined to negotiate for the return of public utilities and facilities. Yet they have been permitted to carry on.

Although both the alliance and its nemesis, the ousted Thai Rak Thai government, share contempt for democratic life, the contrasts between them in many respects could not be sharper. Whereas the former prime minister and his party twisted the electoral process for personal and political advantage, the people behind the current events are inimical to electoral politics.

Whereas the former government played with institutions to obtain its objectives, this group is hel_l bent upon laying waste to them. Whereas the Thaksin regime had some image of the future, the alliance leaders conceive of their country only with reference to an imagined past.

The irony is that while the alliance has emerged as the greatest threat to Thailand’s institutional order in modern times, it is a threat that is coming not from without but from within that order. While other countries are concerned with the danger of terrorist attack or political violence orchestrated against the state from outside, it is the super-conservative elements at the heart of the state that are responsible for the havoc being wreaked in Bangkok today.

Irrespective of what happens next, all Thailand’s core institutions have without exception suffered losses. Globally, their credibility has plummeted. It will not easily be recovered.

Domestically, they have lost authority. This loss is grievous and lasting. Active and engaged public life depends upon durable institutions. Where government and non-government agencies alike are working reasonably well, spaces exist to propose improvements, defend rights and redress wrongs. Where reactionary forces cut them down for fear of losing their status and out of misguided ideas about lineage and tradition, social life gets much more basic, much more ugly.

Thailand’s political parties and politicians have proven incapable of leading their country out of this morass. Its senior courts have encouraged conflict at the behest of interested parties, out of political rather than legal imperatives. The police force has again shown itself to be a tool of vested interests rather than a criminal justice agency of any sort. And the army too has once again demonstrated that it acts for its interests, and its interests alone.

The “final battle” unfolding in Bangkok can only end in a Pyrrhic victory. The attack on Suvarnabhumi Airport has struck at the authority and credibility of all institutions in Thailand. Whatever happens, the damage has been done. The 2006 coup pushed Thailand to the brink. The airport takeover has decidedly pushed it over.

--

(Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma

Tropo

If hoping for a peaceful outcome, and not holding ill feeling towards either side, regardless of what colour shirt they are wearing, or what they believe in, what they have done or may do. If not wanting to see more violence, Thai's attacking each other, injuring and killing each other, is bitching, then yes, I am bitching.

This is the attitude I am referring to within this thread however, and frankly, it sucks.

Taking over an international airport and closing it down is not a "peaceful protest". It's not even a protest.

I don't care how many PAD "protestors" are hurt or killed. They know the risks they are taking by doing what they are doing. In my world if you play with fire you'll get burned, and they are knowingly playing with fire.

They must be taken out asap.

Ok, it wasn't my post you were referring to, however I do agree that any PAD protestor willing to use another person as a human shield is as good as "terrorist scum"...and that's coming from a non-American. Surprised?

Me too! Whatever it takes to extract those fools from the airport is fine by me. It should have happened on Tuesday evening.

Why should we have sympathy for fools who put themselves in harm's way? If it takes a few deaths to get the airport running again, then so be it.

It's not my plan and whatever happens will happen irrespective of my own opinion. If people want to take risks with their lives by doing stupid things, then that is their decision. No sympathy from me watsoever will they get.

Most imporatantly, the show much go on, and that means your beloved PAD members must be extracted by whatever means it takes.

So with an attitude like this, why exactly are you living in Thailand, amongst Thai people, who are struggling to solve a huge rift that has been created by the ex PM, and is still carrying on through the now proxy PM brother in-law.

Too many people seem to forget, this is Thailand, it belongs to Thai people, they will deal with it the Thai way, not the European or American or whatever way, and how dare any arse hole imply that Thailand should adopt another country's way of doing things, just take a look at what other country's have done to the financial market……. And what they have done to the freedom of their citizens.

The Thai way?

Do you mena the Red or the yellow way?

Maybe you do not like the fact that your nation is in meltdown now and looking like a joke, but it is.

If we all said wonderful things about Thailand, the meltdown would still be well under way. if you do not like people talking, then do not listen.