MyPenRye

A BBQ party! What a FANTASTIC idea!

Count me in! Anytime in August!

I think weekends are best for the majority of people!

I have no suggestions to make in terms of venues,... not being that familiar with CM.

I have no doubt that it will be a resounding success wherever it is held!

Great initiative!

Cheers to all!

Hello!

I have the impression that postings in connection with visas are mostly from people who do not qualify for longer stays/residence permits etc.?

You are definitely no tourists, but people who want to live in Thailand because you don't get that much sunshine, girls or cheap living in your own countries.

Each one of you (and there is a huge majority) who comes from a western, developed (or G8) country, should ask yourself: "Why couldn't I make enough money back home to live a comfortable life (as investor, businessman or else) over here?

Now, without wanting to offend anybody, the correct answer is: "Because I am an incapable, lazy, uneducated or whatsoever person!"

Exactly the category, Thailand doesn't want to be it's residents.

You couldn't make it in developed countries with lots of oportunities so, just face it, you are losers.

I am entering Thailand as a tourist.

Most girls in my home country wouldn't touch me with a 50 cm pole (is it my fault that my "good" genes are all concentrated inside my heart and brain?): most women --in spite of what they claim-- are just as interested in the superficial good-looking guys claiming that this is all about love, where it is all about infatuation, lust, chemistry, ... (add the plethora of euphemisms most women use here). (BTW, guys are the same, but at least they tell the truth, most of the time.)

And, I am far from lazy: I almost died a few years ago for working a bit too hard,... so ... perhaps you should rethink your generalizations because I think I am far from an anomaly.

And I agree with another poster,... we are not all born into money (or with dads with networks of friends,...) like some people, in which case,... I would not have to count my pennies ... beside are you going to help me if I don't have enough money to pay for a life-saving surgery?

I did not think so.

So, ... I rest my case.

Troll or not.

If I can add my 2 Bahts in ...

1) PLease be aware of the nasty AC on the VIP bus on the way back (or take a sweater or something) ... Am I the only one who gets cold on these VIP buses. I have rationalized that they either they are not able to turn it off, they do not understand, they do not make the connection between the 20 or so people who cover themselves from head to toe, or there is no way that it can be done! Perhaps someone knows something about this.

2) About the 10,000 to 20,000 Bahts that you might need to show:

You can either get a Traveller's Cheque for that amount or use an ATM slip that shows that you have that amount (and hopefully more ). I have never tried the slip, but I was told that it does work. Same for the TC, but I would be flabbergasted if they would refuse it.

I don't know about the onward airplane ticket deal as I always buy return tickets. However, I would like to explore the possibility to have an open date for the trip back as one never knows what can happen. Is there anyway to get such a deal using Expedia? And, BTW, is Expedia a good deal? Would customs officers accept this?

Thanks and regards.

Anyway I still say it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to disolve a political party in a democratic society because some of it's leaders are corrupt - the only valid reason for banning a political party in my view is that they stand for something unacceptable to the world community - such as racism, geonocide and going against demorcracy - its fine to ban the guilty people from entering politics or even holding office (providing they are proven guilty) but disenfranchising millions of voters by removing heir party has to be wrong. Still by my reasaoning the military junta could ban themselves as what they did, and are still doing, is undemocratic.

I understand what they did, in a way, but they should have simply, ousted the government, disclosed the truth to everyone and then returned the country to the ballot box within a few months - there would have been no better way to undermine the Thai Rak Thai party than to see them suffer a humiliating defeat at the ballot box. As it is now, come the election, whenever one takes place, they can play the martyr. It is also totally undemocratic for an unelected body to be drafting a constitution - you may as well give that power back to the monarch!

Bush/Blair (and their corporate friends)

racism: check

genocide: check

anti-democratic measures: check

I agree, but it won't happen. Everyone is either working to buy that 2nd SUV or working 2 jobs to buy one or entertaining their kids or themselves after a hard day (or not so) at work. That's democracy folks!

PS: Nixon, Reagan, Bush Senior,... (to name just a few)

NEWS FLASH: Where there is money, there is usually corruption!

Hi Guys,

What would you if you (I) had a 5 months/year' job as a teacher in Canada and had a GF which might be more long-term (if we are compatible and she is a decent person)? I have a fully paid condo here in Canada, been a teacher for 20 years in Canada, been to Thailand twice now (never to work). I would like her to visit/stay in Canada for a while while I work here. If things are positive, what should I do visa-wise? Should I marry her in Thailand? In Canada (assuming a visa, of course)? She is university educated, but does not work now (was working as a tour guide), but should be soon. She does not have much money I believe. I am 46.

Thanks for the advice.

It seems all this process is sooooo complicated and a major pain in the you know what.

Why everybody is talking about doubles,if you stay in your home country anyway why not take a triple entry,makes you not having to extend anything.After the first 2 months just exit and reenter.

The OP doesn't have to worry about something.First you are a tourist,with a tourist visa,perfect.

You are not doing any visarun(3o days),you have a proper visa,you will see that they will let you pass very quickly at any border.By the way MYanmar is perfectly save,nothing wrong at the border,I know I go there regularly.To the OP,just try to get the visa with the most entries......

Incidentally, for 6 months (I know the OP wants 4 months, BTW), triple entry makes more sense financially (although not by much) ... here in Canada one entry is $40 (about 1200 bahts), so 3 entry visa (3600 B.) + 2 visa runs (about 1500 B. max by bus) = 5100 B. The other way is 2 entries (2400 B.) + 2 extensions (1900 X 2) = 6200 B. (I prefer visiting Thailand than paying for an extension twice: Mai Sai and Mae Hong Son via Pai > not sure if you can get out and re-enter and Mae Hong Son)

Note: Chiang Mai to Mai sai runs and 1st class bus +2 tuk-tuks (would be less if you can get a ride)

I like dancing sporadically, but I find that there are only 2 places I know where you can actually dance: Spicy and Bubbles, although I find the beat and the style of music too repetitive, the smoking (just as Spicy) criminal, and the DJs' interjections really bothersome. I don't go to Spicy anymore for the smoking and the obvious fasle pretenses. Are there any other places where one can actually dance. I have never been to Mandalay, Dragon, and Ban Rak. Fashion (I thought it had a different name ... behind Kad Suan Kaew) used to have a techno room, but few people went in there and danced, so they canned it. The techno was a bit much after a while, but it was a change from the hip-hop. And, most of those places are too loud. Mind you, if I keep going there, I will soon be deaf!

PS: Not sure if anyone has bothered going to the 2nd flloor of the Chiang Mai Lotus (I think that's the one or the one behind that one). The dance floor is huge, no smoking, the band sings in English, the music is varied (Latin, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's) and not too loud. The only downside is the room has not style, very few people know about it, and the food is not that great. It is too bad. Actually, the lounge at one of those 2 places has English speaking singers usually. It is a shame that people do not go there more often. Maybe we can organize a bunch of people to go there, once I get to CM (about one month).

The following was posted by thaiboxer in 2005 elsewhere.

I am not too sure if this doctor still does surgeries or does a good job. Have you had a surgery by him or know of someone who did?

Maybe you know of some other surgeon.

Thanks for your help.

Here's some actual useful info that u requested :

I just had the nose fixed and decided to do a chin augmentation as well 2gether..

did it last month on Mar. 1st, so my info is up to date..

Dr. Kampanart ... Bangkok Pattaya Hospital

038-427-751

cell : 01-9797576

I'm not too sure how much for just chin augmentation but 2gether w/rhinoplasty, it cost me $39, 476 THB. Price included all medication and aftercare. Full recovery in 7 7 days for myself.

Excellent surgeon, speaks good english and was a fast job...only 30min. needed for augmentation and u are awake the whole time under local anathesia...only pain was minor when at first they inject the needles into your lip to freeze and numb...

Fast and very routine operation...I even rode my motorcycle back home from the hospital...piece of cake and only 1 day of swelling and by the 3rd day, u couldn't even tell....

Yahnee Hospital in Bangkok gave me the price of $36000 baht but I opted for Pattaya as i live here.

If u have anyother questions and need actual info, instead of some mindless filler comments ...look me up!

Cheers,

Thaiboxer1

PTE has a point: the OP may be journalism tainted by Aussie surgeons who are losing patients to Asian surgeons.

He has a huge point.

The Australian college of sergeons is basically a union for doctors and lobby group rolled into one. In Australia, they and the AMA are basically the most protected and pampered interest group in Australia - scared sh!tless of competition. What they are doing is no different to unions in other industries whining about foreingers taking their jobs.

The ACS and the AMA have been at the forefront of keeping medical costs in Australia unreasonably high, by effectively controlling the supply of doctors (who qualifies and for what) and the role of nurses who could do more - if they were only allowed. They are one the last unreformed industries in Australia - along with the Pharmacists who make ownership restrictions in Thailand look like a liberal wet dream when you compare how hard it is to own a pharmacy business in Australia.

Any thing that comes out of their mouth I'd view with a massive, actually, an iceberg sized 'grain' of salt.

Same in Canada (and I suspect in many countries). However, Canada is known around the world for accepting immigrants. Immigration Canada accepts their credentials, then the local/provincial medical associations deny the foreign credentials and asks them to redo their training (this is also done in teaching,...). The colleges are happy. The doctors are happy (supply and demand). Canada does not mind becasuse they get a good number of cheap, well educated immigrants,... Capitalism and some human beings are disgusting, when you think of families and children being affected.

Bangkok 3rd in the world? Ya! Sure! Something is fishy there! Not Paris? Not Vienna? Not London? Not Barcelona or Madrid? Come on! I question this survey. I would like to know more about the question, the sample, the criteria,...

Trust me when i say , Thailand hab dbeen KIND to Everyone of us .

...And their LAW and RULE is to be respected...

Not trying to defend this fellow. Don't know him and don't know the details. I cannot say whether he is illogical or not based on the limited information given.

In a more general way, a few things about laws:

1) It is not because there is a law that it is a good law. Laws are arbitrary and sometimes illogical. (Women were prohibited by law to vote. Was that a good law? Alcohol/tobacco are drugs, but are legal; other drugs are not?)

2) It is not because there is a law that you have to obey it religiously. We are all individuals with different abilities. Why do the 70 year old man or woman can drive as fast as me? Why do I have to drive as slow as him or her? Do you wait for the red light to turn green in an unfrequented intersection in the early hours of the morning?

3) Laws can be badly written (and often are). (Why are speed limits the same at 12 noon and 12 midnight? ... just to name one).

4) Laws do not often address the issue. There are laws against panhandling in many countries, but if there was a law that would limit the kinds of money/assets people have (and allow a more equitable distribution of wealth amongst all citizens and/or a better education system designed to provide more help for the poorest and less educated and more suitable jobs for all students), there would not be less panhandling and crime in general.

5) Laws sometimes are counterproductive, as laws against drugs. Drugs are legal. Alcohol and tobacco are drugs. Yet, alcohol and tobacco are legal. (Why? Because governments can tax them). If we were to legalize all drugs, would all people become addicts? Are all people alcoholics? Cigarette smokers? Given the proper educational systems and advertising campaigns (and legalization to reduce profit, traficking, incentives, etc), we know that there would be fewer people using drugs. Not all people would be, but more people would be and more money and resources used to fight "illegal" drug business could be used to prevent addiction or use/abuse. (I have never smoked one cigarette or used any drugs, except for the occasional alcholic drinks, BTW.)

6) Some laws (see above) are designed to help tacitly or not crime organizations (and the civil servants whose hands are getting greased).

7) HOWEVER, many laws are generally useful, especially when they protect people from danger or abuse.

Like with everything, the middle of the road is usually the best path to take (except during rush hour ).

(In general, I make up my own rules and laws. If it is not bothering ANYONE [within reasons], I do it.)

Agreed in terms of background and such. It is difficult to judge. However, assuming the best scenario, it is strange.

I understand that soldiers/policemen have to obey the rules and laws, but what happens if the law is borderline ... unmanageable or plain illogical! For instance, we are all familiar with filling those dreaded visa applications. Not too sure if it is everywhere the same, but in my country/city, it asks to specify the airline company, flight number, and date. However, why would I buy a ticket BEFORE being given the right to enter a country? What if they refuse the visa? Then what? $1000 gone? And, if I don't put anything down? Will they refuse my visa application on the basis of not being completed? This question was asked in writing and they told me to leave it blank. Now I am 99% sure that I will get the visa, but weirder things have happened. For instance, what if I am a victim of identity theft or the girl at the counter does not like my blue eyes? (in the past, I made assumptions that they would accept both my visa app. and my visa run, setting in stone my flight's dates).

Of course, the same issue applies when you are doing visa runs. Any solutions for this dilemma? For instance, what if you want to have an open ticket (a ticket that you can set a date at a later time ... not sure of the jargon here). All this is very confusing. Am I the only one confused?

Yes im sure you are correct, the unfair things are usually but not always that the farang has supplied the funds (im talking after marriage and registered)and though I accept if we split I will lose the land I can still keep half of the property ???? Its all very complicated, I do think they should make an allowance for marriages that last more than 8 years, only been married a short time now ,myself mind.In the west though after both have signed one does not end up losing the land and if Im married I accept its 50% each

I agree its their country and they make the rules and I abide by them when I can and when they dont twist them round to make it impossible. Its a difficult line to walk as some of us want a nice cheap country to live in but have to accept the downsides. It has taught me to be patient.

I didnt come here looking to live I came just for a holiday I have never been in a bar or met a bar girl somthing I must do ahhahaha I think my wife is curious too about bar girls. We must go to the areas farang swarm too as I have never been there and it looks interesting and the wife wants to see it too.

So, if I am reading well, the land cannot be owned by foreigners (I thought it was the king, but my pen rai ... pun intended). In any case, to make it a bit safer, wouldn't it be a good idea to make the wife look as if she is "carrying" the mortgage and the Thai terms (which must be more reasonable than for foreigners) then, keeping the mortage as big as possible (put as little down as possible and replay slowly, so that if the woman is really interested in the money more than the guy, then she will not make much and the guy will not lose much). Do they accept 5% down for Thais? It was stated that 20,000 Bath salary/month would be ok for a 2 million baths mortage (but the Japanese husband put a large downpayment),... and to qualify ... is it like in the west 33% of your income? I hope this has not been asnwered before. If not, my apologies.

I think it is not our place to judge this fellow. He is not even here to defend himself.

I think he did it because he no longer could bear it. Period! We are all different and we all act differently. We do not all have the same lives and the same circumstances, the same capacity to deal with pain, grief, abuse, hurt,... Could it be that we could be selfish to ask him to stay alive? Maybe he needed more help that we could give? In any case, it is his life. It was. Yet, it is too bad that he is gone!

Guys, why not check out the numerous web based FREE tutorials, you both obviously have web access. How about the 2 of you meeting up, you both live in or can get to CM, and organising a study session if there is a particular area you are stuck on. Just an idea.

THanks for the thread and the info!

I would like to know more about possible get-togethers or courses being offered. I have built a few simple wesbites using FrontPage, can add java scripts (taken, not created) to websites. I would like to know more about advanced programming language (for database) ... especially interested in making a multi-lingual, interactive, anti-racism website for children and adults (using my expertise in teaching), exploring cultural rigidity and dynamics.

I like the idea of a study group!

Has anyone found courses given in English? Are there any Englsih-Speaking programmers willing to part with some money in exchange for some instruction? Of course, everything would be hush ... hush!

Thanks.

Sometime i don't get the statment ,

" looking for girl who is not after your money ."

are you really that rich ? or you felt that you are rich ?

are you really that much a lady killer and expect to be laid once you are in a club ?

or is it cos you watch so much asian porn that you feel that all asian girl is really after a trail test of farang exp ?

- when i was staying in japan . most girl avoid farang . for one reason there feel that is not safe -

and go whom go with farang . in term of at a club as branded as working girl .

in the older days . japanese girl is the most sexually advanture asian around , there are the huntress and trust me man at the club are their rabbit .

[...]*

I am with Ta22 on this one. As I said Bubbles and Spices ... are meat market for sure.

I also cannot stand the interruptions within songs. A song is a piece of art! It is to be listen to or dance to,... ! Anyway, I guess Thai are used to it ... and I guess if I could understand Thai it would be not as bad, I suppose!

.

* abbreviated (no offense Ta22)

Forget all that,. get down to the nana hotel disco . marvellous !

Mike, what is the ratio of loose women to normal Thai women at the Nana Hotel? Now, don't use this as a reason to find out empirically, unless you are done with the experiment, of course! What is the music like? Do I have to wear a gas mask? (Hey! I think I will do this once for Halloween! Sort of killing 2 birds with one stone! ... a stone or a cigarette!

I agree with most of what was said above, but all is not doom and gloom out there!

NOT all!

Most is ! :D

Anyway, I met this most one wonderful Thai woman at the place I would least recommend anyone to go meet a "good" girl/woman: Bubbles. It was New Year's eve (for sure a better time to meet good women at Bubbles, although the ratio was still 1/10 from what I could gather), I had nothing to do, ... a friend phones me, and we ended up at Bubbles (first time for me). I avoid those places like the plague (or HIV, if you get my drift). Anyway, the lady I am with now was definitely NOT into me at first. Paradoxically, that is a good sign because many women with dubious motives were, ... body massaging me on the dance floor, asking for drinks ot be paid to them,... Anyway, that did not last very long and the good woman which I happened to be sitting beside warmed up to me and my great personality . She did mention to me,... after ... that she thought I was one of those crazy foreigners (the ones who think all Thai women sleep for money), but that I was too well behaved to be a crazy guy!* This woman has a decent job and speaks decent English. She has never asked me for anything (even though I do offer to/ pay for dinner together. She is always trying to get a good deal for dinner (not that I am, but that's definitely nice of her and telling). So, here you go, guys. Just use you head and be patient. It took me 3 months to find a decent woman who was into me and I was into her, metaphorically speaking, that is! To be fair, there were other women that I thought could have done, but no mutual attraction, physical AND emotional AND intellectual. By the way, I am not counting my chicken before they hatch,... time will tell if this can be a long term deal.

BTW, beside all the Nimmi. places and Bubbles (which has dancing, but the smoke), there is Spices near Thaepae Gate, but the odds are --I think-- even worse than Bubbles for good women. There is Western type of dancing, but the usual smoking.

Mike, what is the ratio of loose women to normal Thai women at the Nana Hotel? Now, don't use this as a reason to find out empirically, unless you are done with the experiment, of course! What is the music like? Do I have to wear a gas mask? (Hey! I think I will do this once for Halloween! Sort of killing 2 birds with one stone! ... a stone or a cigarette!

* Hopefully ... this is not a line that they all use to fool the guys like me looking for something long term and real (or close enough)!

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I think you'll find that spousal abuse is not limited to only Thailand, so I doubt it is solely a cultural issue. Abusive people (men and women) exist in all countries and all cultures. It is a human issue and luckily for your gf, she managed to escape. Alot of women don't.

From Canada:

[...]*

With all due respect, what most people might not know is that these stats and others do not represent often the full story. Is jealousy a form of abuse? Are men really more abusive than women?

The following research proves that women are just as abusive as men. Many women know this, but do not talk about it. Why? Women and girls know that women and girls are abusive amongst themselves, as the following will prove. Now, I am not saying at all (nor does the following) that men are not abusive. Men abusers exist. The point is that female abusers exist too. The issue is that women use psychological means, means which are subversive and hard to "punish". More often than not, women will get away with it. Who can say what effect can unpunished female abuse have on a boy who, for instance, might get punished for reacting to something nasty that was said or done by a girl? Have we not just taught this girl that she was victimized for apparently no reason where in fact she was the perpetrator? Given repetive incidents like these, what is the effect on women and men as they grow up? Of course, it could be argued that hitting someone is much more abusive than demeaning or humiliating someone. Some people say that words are just as hurtful. It is my experience that more often than not disputes are often a case of misunderstanding, highlighting the dire need to teach women and men proper ways to manage conflicts effectively, fairly. Of course, there are other issues between men and women. I think also there are issues relaed to the institution of marriage. For instance, men tend to be more polygamous in their thinking and women more monogamous. In view of alarming divorce and infidelity stats, one wonders if the institution of marriage is a good one for all people, for men, for women, for children. But, let's go back to the notion that women are just as abuive as men.

Recent research says that:

#1

Girls more abusive with dates than boys, study says

(One in four teenage girls admitted using 'dating violence' toward their

partner compared to one in five boys) (from the Vancouver Sun)

Even though it looks like the Sun messed up the info on its online intro,

I read the article and the actual findings of the research conducted by 3

women PhD profs (Heather Sears, Sandra Byers, Lisa Price). They found

that 25% of girls and 20% of boys use dating violence. In the article it

states that women use psychological abuse methods and boys, mostly physical

(predictably), but what it not is that women/girls are more abusive than

boys/men (and not way less [1/2] as other research had pointed out.).

Now, most of the authors of this study --up until that time-- had been

publishing research pointing out how men abused women, but rarely

providing counter-research to show that women abused men too (for instance,

http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/datingfs.html) (1). I applaud the

researchers for exposing the flip side of this issue. Finally!

What is profoundly disturbing in this new research is that I think that

this is just the tip of the iceberg. How many more times is the physical abuse

from the boy related to the emotional abuse of the --or a-- girl(s)? In

other words, how many times is it retaliatory? If some girls/women are

using emotional abuse amongst themselves (more than boys), it is easy to

hypothesize that they are better equipped than boys/men to deal with any

and girls/women probably don't fully understand the effect of these

techniques on boys/men. In fact girls/women might think that the way

they act is the norm and is acceptable. After all, isn't it this ubiquitous

in many movies? How many times is a delayed response from

a boy or a man directed to "girls/women" in general in a way to respond to

a particular event or a number of events that was not dealt fairly? What

are the implication of this type of early abuse in forming healthy and

functional men (and women) in terms of distrust of men for women, in

terms of pathological abuse condoned by the police/courts? Is this a new trend

or has it always been like this? If this takes place in dating, isn't it

natural to think that this takes place outside of dating as well?

Keep in mind that women's groups receive funding from governments

($15.3 millions and nothing for men) and have a vested interest in writing

history (or hers) so that they will keep being funded. What happens thus

is that we are bombarded by research made by women, for women, to paint

women as being always worst off than men. Not to say that women,

sometimes, do not have legitimate issues, but it is sad that they have not

learned to be a bit more balanced.

#2

Here is just a sample of AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY examining ASSAULTS

BY WOMEN ON THEIR SPOUSES OR MALE PARTNERS written by Martin S.

Fiebert, Department of Psychology, California State University, Long

Beach (The full bibliography can be found at

http://www.fathers.bc.ca/assaults_by_women.htm)

SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 95 scholarly investigations, 79

empirical studies and 16 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate

that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men

in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The

aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 60,000.

(I would add that, considering research taking into account emotional

or social bullying, we can extrapolate that women are definitively

more violent than males.)

Aizenman, M., & Kelley, G. (1988). The incidence of violence and

acquaintance rape in dating relationships among college men and women.

Journal of College Student Development, 29, 305-311. (A sample of

actively dating college students <204 women and 140 men> responded to

a survey examining courtship violence. Authors report that there were

no significant differences between the sexes in self reported

perpetration of physical abuse.)

Archer, J., & Ray, N. (1989). Dating violence in the United Kingdom: a

preliminary study. Aggressive Behavior, 15, 337-343. (Twenty three

dating couples completed the Conflict Tactics scale. Results indicate

that women were significantly more likely than their male partners to

express physical violence. Authors also report that, "measures of

partner agreement were high" and that the correlation between past and

present violence was low.)

Arias, I., Samios, M., & O'Leary, K. D. (1987). Prevalence and

correlates of physical aggression during courtship. Journal of

Interpersonal Violence, 2, 82-90. (Used Conflict Tactics Scale with a

sample of 270 undergraduates <95 men, 175 women> and found 30% of men

and 49% of women reported using some form of aggression in their

dating histories with a greater percentage of women engaging in severe

physical aggression.)

* Shortened due to space contraints. Please refer to the whole post for more information. Thanks.

The hippie (Carl something) who wrote the guide to travelling around Mexico in a VW microbus, told how he went out the back door of a Mexcan cantina (pub) with a Mexican guy, to urinate. As they stood in the dark alley peeing on a pile of rubbish, Carl told the local man how this would be illegal back in the USA. That was the funniest joke Carl told all night!

Oh! Well! Guess what? It IS illegal in Vancouver! I guess, enough people were ... pissed off (or is it that the Olympics are coming and Vancouver has to be the epitomy of the best cities in the world ) that, now, one can be fined if caught in the act! $50 to $150. No joke! Article from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

We once walked down a big mountain to say farewell to the bishop who'd been in office 40 years, in Chiapas, Mexico. Every time the parade stopped, some of the local natives would take a toilet break - men to the left side, women (who wore big skirts without underwear) to the right, into the bushes. Quite normal.

The best fertilizer, I guess!

If I recall correctly, a score of six on the IELTS is higher than what is required in the graduate programs at Thailand's best English programs at Thai universities.

Do such places exist?

I thought they were all as corrupt as each other

You would need to speak far better English to suceed in the Oz workfoce than you would need to suceed in ANY degree program in ANY Thai Uni.

C'mon now, we're talking about Chulalongkorn, Ramkamhaeng, CMU, Tammasat - surely you remember the thread on that topic in the teaching forum.

Now, whether they really, truly require a high score, remains to be seen.

But my Chinese mate who scored half a standard deviation above the mean on the verbal score of the SAT, managed fine in engineering school in the USA, and as a professional engineer. Hey, you just reminded me of the Indian manager I had.....we never knew half of what he said!

The reason I doubt the credentials of Thai Universities is because of past work experience in Oz. I use to be a supermarket manager for a masive retail chain and many Thai students would work as night fillers. Anyway, one day I asked a few of them (including the filippinos and indians who were there for the same reason ) was how did you end up packing the shelves at night? All the responses were "We have to pay to study our bachelors degree again in your country" I thought to myself I feel sorry for yall for wasting years studying in your home country to only have to re-do everything again. It was then that I learnt than 6 of the 10 workers had PHDs as well! I thought &lt;deleted&gt;! I then asked, "Why didn't our Unis' at least give you Bachelor Degree status? You have BAs' MAs' and PHDs' and now you have to do it all again, that sux!" Anyway, they said my country thinks the Unis' in their countries are corrupt and anyone can buy a degree from them so no credit can be given. After hearing all the sad sotries, especially about the PHD graduates being forced to study BA again in Oz, I have now always doubted the education system in India, Philippines and here in LOS, and after living here and teaching for 2 years, I now know why. You can walk into 20% of the Unis' here and buy a degree! No fail policy ETC Now, I know this does not exist everywhere, but, while its know common practise in some places, it will always be an issue, So yeah, even the names such as Chula, Kasetsart, thammasat, etc don't ring alarm bell's as being "quality institutions" the ring warning bells being "thai institutions"

It is not because certain institutions (who have a vested interested in keeping foreign professionals or trade people out of their country or fields) determine that one's knowledge of English or one's knowledge of their profession or trade is not up to their standards that it is. For instance, not many people could pass the tests that they took years ago (without rereading notes or the book). Not many specialist doctors could pass their medical exam. Tests can be made by anyone to prove anything. Let's be fair. Give those tests (same tests) to working Australians every 5 years to see if they can pass them. If 90% of them can, then we could say that this is probably a fair test. Also, let's make sure that there are no cultural biases in them, which could impact a migrant's results. Believe me! Professional associations and unions want their members (and their members want them to do this) to keep their jobs. Competition drives wages down.All capitalists need cheap labour. So, they ask governments to open the gates, admitting people at first and then close the doors once they are in the country by not accepting their credentials. How convenient! Many countries do this BTW.

"Increasing the English language threshold requirement" sounds like a good policy. However, I have not seen the test, so it is difficult for me to judge whether or not the questions are picky grammatical, spelling idiosyncracies of English (although it is probably that) or it is really a test designed to evaluate objectively and accurately the reading, speaking, written, listening ability in English. Are those tests given to Australains? Would they pass them? In other words, do they have a control group to evaluate the validity of this test.

From my limited encounters with OZies, I would say that understanding them is more of an issue for me, as a quasi native English speaker. I think that the Australian accent is such that even many English-speakers from other countries have a difficult time understanding what is being communicated. Of course, I am sure that after a while one gets used to the differences. However, what would be more difficult (if one is not taught this) is to understand typical Australian slang, especially if it is used ubiquitously. I doubt that these tests can accurately test the proficiency of migrants to understand Australian English, unless the test is made by an Australian. I also doubt that language schools would cater their lessons to prepare migrants for the targeted language. Can a native speaker of the USA go by in Australia with just a knowledge base of North-American English? Would there be deemed "proficient" enough to be employable?

Let's understand that this issue is not as simple as it is made to be.

Cracked me up, George!

Speaking of which, I heard that a feminist group from North-America has contacted the ministry to have the whole landing "strip" at the new airport covered. They think it is so obscene ... especially with all those cracks showing!

Again, George, well done!

Never mind. Neither post has anything new to say.

I am not going to get into an argument with you about your appalling lack of understanding of being female, so lets just leave it at that, shall we? And I do use the word "you" to mean you specifically since you are the only one who managed to bring up the point that women enjoy being leered at or stared at. Please look up the dictionary definition of " staring" before posting again, thanks.

Number of years in Thailand certainly does have bearing as I have far more experience of what is and isn't acceptable behavior than someone living in Canada. And if you had bothered to read my original post about what Thai women would do, I've already answered that question.

And just for your edification, my husband is Thai and when asked what his opinion of a Thai man staring in such a way is, he said, he would get very upset if someone stared at his wife, sister, cousin etc in that way and would most likely go ask him what his problem was. He also stated that it is not acceptable behavior for a Thai man.

So, unless you, as a farang man, are also going to negate my Thai husband's opinion of male behavior in his own country, I suggest you keep your peace

You can shout and scream all you want, lady, I caught you at least twice with an illogical statement. Draw the conclusions, ... if you can!

It sounds as you want to win the argument no matter what because it does not appear you read or understood what I wrote.

Your arguments make sense only as far as they relate that this did not used to happen. But, guess what? It is happening now! So, I provided you with an explanation. Live with it! What are you going to do about it, take pictures of the guys and tell the police? Tell your husband? Hire a hitman?

And, by the way, rules and customs do change over time. Women did not used to be allowed to vote. I bet you are not opposed to that change.

Thai men can do whatever they want with their breath and eyes. Do you like Singapore?

Look! If you want to keep your eyes in your pocket (or look hypocritically), fine! Guess what? Some of us like to be stared at and like to stare! Live with it!