MyPenRye

"In Thailand, asbestos has been imported for more than 30 years. It is used in several industries throughout the country. For example, 90 % of imported raw materials are used in cement manufacture, i.e., roof tile and cement pipe. The others are found in production of brake and clutch (8 %) and in production of vinyl floor tile, gasket, or heat insulating materials (2 %)."

reference

Sadly, Canada (and Russia), even though it (not sure for Russia) is banned here, is the main exporter of asbestos. I guess the owners must be well networked in the government. This is the other reason why we need more global watch organizations like greenpeace.

Sorry about the two posts. Editing time had elapsed, I guess.

The last one is the most complete one.

Just curious MyPenRye, where do you live and how long have you lived in Thailand? The Thai culture I am aware of, after 18 years of living here, does not find it acceptable for men to stare long and hard at a woman. It is not considered flirting. And no Thai woman I know of would tolerate it.

And sir, I don't hate men, I've been happily married for 17 years. What I do dislike is a man telling me what I should and should not appreciate as a woman. Until you can live life as a woman you have no clue what it is like, OK?

Exactly! But, you are telling Thai men what they should or should not appreciate! Until you are a man, you have no clue what it is like to live as one. OK? Sounds familiar!

I rest my case!

Ahahahah! Tolerate it! You hit on the nail there, lady! Men (Thai or not) tolerate women's (Thai or not) constant strutting too. Men are constantly bombarded by sexual images day in and day out, but --of course-- have to show restraint at all time, unless one woman wants some attention that day. I wonder how women would think if we were to show of our stuff constantly? I wonder how poor people would feel if others were shwing off their money, their expensive cars,...? I still think that this lady could look at it in a positive way. I am not dismissing that this is an odd behaviour for Thai men (Asian men), but this could be explained in many ways. Maybe they are bored. Like I said, they do this for guys too. Maybe they like what they see. Maybe they don't. In any case, I have expressed my point of view. Read it again!

In view of what I said, number of years in Thailand is irrelevant here. Even though this is not part of Thai culture, men change. Watching TV and how farang men acts do have an effect on some. Cultures change. Beside, you are trying to interpret Thai men behaviour, but you are neither a man or Thai, as far as I know.

I rest my case.

I am glad to hear that you SAY that you don't hate men. It sounds though you would prefer men to do as you wish or as Thai women wish or else. Like I said, I would rather not have women showing their breasts off, but a lot of them do. Sometimes, you have to accept things as they are.

I am sure it is extremely hard to be a woman. But, most women do NOT get injured or die while working. I wonder how many Thai men die because of the pesticide he sprays, because of the asbestos he breaths in, because he gets killed by a jealous man/woman who hires a hitman, because he gets killed as a policeman, firefighter, soldier, miner, farmer, builder. It is true that there is no chance he will die of a pregnancy. It is, however, safe to say that things are not as good as they appear to be, if one looks objectively at things. In any case, this is not the topic.

If you were to go easy with the "you" statements, but acknowledge more someone else's point of view, I think conversations would be a bit more postive.

Peace.

Just curious MyPenRye, where do you live and how long have you lived in Thailand? The Thai culture I am aware of, after 18 years of living here, does not find it acceptable for men to stare long and hard at a woman. It is not considered flirting. And no Thai woman I know of would tolerate it.

And sir, I don't hate men, I've been happily married for 17 years. What I do dislike is a man telling me what I should and should not appreciate as a woman. Until you can live life as a woman you have no clue what it is like, OK?

Ahahahah! Tolerate it! You hit on the nail there, lady! And, what are they going to do? Call the Thai police? YOU women really think you can get it both ways. Dress like arabs and there won't be a chance that will happen.

I am not dismissing that this is an odd behaviour for Thai men (Asian men), but this could be explained in many ways. Maybe they are bored. Like I said, they do this for guys too. In any case, I have expressed my point of view.

In view of what I said, number of years in Thailand is irrelevant here. You are trying to interpret Thai men behaviour and you are neither a man or Thai.

I rest my case.

Actually, MyPenRye, your comment is not only wrong but completely out of context compared to the original post. We are not talking about being looked at but are discussing persistent staring in a culture where it is not acceptable for a man to stare at a woman in such a way.

As for the idea that women like to be stared at, catcalled at etc etc. Well, most women find those who do so in an aggressive manner to be off putting and, in some cases, downright scary.

Wrong? Completely? Ahahahaha! Who are you? The queen? God? Jeesh! Go easy with the hyperbolae, sbk! Methink you could be a bit more sensitive when you respond to people! But, I am a man and you probably hate men, so I take it with a grain of salt!

Anyway, who is we? Unless you think you are the queen, I am responding to the original poster, sbk.

The poster is asking if she is too sensitive or paranoid. I am responding.

So what whether or not it is acceptable for a man to stare at a woman in such a way? There is not one country I know that has laws against that. Of course, going to Afghanistan might resolve that issue. Anyway, culture evolves. Men change. We have eyes and we are allowed to use them. And before we go for the "kill" (I am sure that with some there is a lot of killing going on there*), we like to know what are our chances. In any case, I find women who show off their breast to be totally inappropriate, especially in front of children, and many do. However, I do understand that this is the way they advertise themselves and attract men (and then tells us that's the only think we look at). I wish they could advertise their emotional or intellectual IQs, but evolution has not gone that far yet. I cannot wait because it sucks the way things are. Maybe it is that these guys have never seen unattractive ladies like that, or maybe it is that what ladies wear is totally ugly, does not fit them, reveals way too much,... Would you walk with a Rolex in the middle of Bogota notion?

The bottom line is I (men) get stared at too by ... men and they don't make a big deal out of it because they don't see any maliciousness into it. And, by the way, in a few years, women who complain about men staring will complain about not being stared at at all!

Anyway, all of this makes me think of this neat little video: Ah, l'amour !

* Kill as women killing men, metaphorically speaking, of course! Jeesh!

On the subject of dressing properly. I recently had a close friend come from Europe on holiday. When he flew back, I suggested he wear one of HM's yellow shirts with a (quality) suit jacket and trousers, socks and polished shoes completed the ensemble. Lo and behold, he was upgraded to first from economy.

This has happened to me too, on more than one occasion. Amazing the effect a bit of care can have.

? How does that happen? Do you ask? Is it a free upgrade?

And, if I dress in a tuxedo, does that mean that I can take the captain's seat?

Not sure I'm the best person to ask. Many, many other ladies on the forum have relationships/marriages with Thai men (sbk, Boo, meme, bina, the list goes on & on....). Also, my relationship is finished (he died a year ago) although I do take care of his son.

What attracted me initially? His music. He was a rock musician & played in a band that I used to go & see every time I was out (at that time about 2 or 3 times a week). The hardest part of the relationship initially was the language barrier, neither of us spoke each others' languages. We used to sit on the beach & point to things & say the words in our own language ("nok a jok" "sparrow"). There were a lot of cultural differences, but he never expected me to be like a Thai. He accepted me for who I am.

I don't think this is typical of Thais, from what I've heard, but he was very touchy & affectionate, even in public. I don't mean sexually, I mean holding hands, sniff-kissing, that sort of thing.

We did have a lot of problems, but mostly those were due to alcoholism (his) which got worse after we'd been together for about a year. When he wasn't blotto (& he did stay sober for months on end, sometimes. He really did try) he was the kindest, most considerate, sweetest guy I've ever known. I don't think many of our problems were related to the Thai/farang thing.

I'm not sure how to answer about how the relationship was better than with a farang. All of my other relationships were with farangs, but based on this one relationship, I don't know whether things I liked were Thai or whether they were just him. If and when I do have another relationship, I haven't got a preconceived notion of who (or what race) they would/should be. That doesn't matter; who they are inside does. Sorry, if that sounds muddled. Maybe one of the other ladies can give you a better answer.

Edit - apologies leisurely & all others, I've just realised this is dreadfully "off topic!"

Thanks for the honest answer.

You do not state if and how you were attracted to him physically. Was he that ugly?

So, if you could not discuss things, are you suggesting that for you (many women, in general), exchanging views about things is not important?

Finally, do you think that this was love or infatuation?

If you see yourself as an attractive woman, this extra attention should be to your liking, as --from a male's perspective-- it is a way to make contact (flirting). I understand that you might not be used to it, but I am not too sure what is the difference between the quick, side stare and a direct stare. Some women would kill to have that kind of attention. I agree that this would be more acceptable to you if the guy is a hot movie star look -alike! Ugly and old guys are human beings too, just not as attractive and lovable, that's all! Ahhhh! Love! Or should I say ... infatuation!

I agree a degree of protest is worthy, but Frang and environmentally concerned Thais have been running articles and studies on the situation for years. The BKK Post just had an article ont he improved BKK situation with regards to smog because of better vehicle regulations -very interesting if you google it.

As for Chiang Mai and vicinity which is in a huge river basin without the benefit of trade winds, the air is trapped with all of the vehicle smoke and the burning of trash and rice chaff, and empty fields. I think the best solution is to work with the Thais for education, and not to promote protests which = loss of face for somebody.

The tremendous amount of trash and vegetation burning could be reduced by educating the youth on the one hand, and then by working with government, CMU, or The Royal Project to fund better trash pickup systems, and to promote composting and even vermiculture - slow composting via worms. Both forms of composting improve soil while having no ill effects towards the air we breathe. I think there is alot of room to work toward this. You essentially need a lot to compost on a community scale, a tractor to trun it, and some water. From there, the compost must be monitored for composition with the right proportions of carbon, nitrogen, and sulfur to keep it cooking at the most efficient rate. Perhaps this natural fertilizer can then be truned around and sold, thus supplementing the city's costs to promote the program.

That's how it's gonna need to be done. Other communities are doing it. Have heard of vermiculture being big in Mexico. They do community composting of green waste in LA county, where the fertilizer is for sale. Of course, we'd need to see a huge - and much welcomed - improvement on trash can disbursement, availability, pick up and maintainance. Then a little community awareness that this can work and benefits us all, and we're off to a great start. Believe me, I have already met some Royal Project people, and hope to speak with government people again soon. This kind of project could be a souce of pride for the community that goes for it and succeeds, not to mention the immiediate direct benefits of the composting.

I applaud you for tackling the problem diplomatically and rationally. I agree that this is the way to go. Maybe the empty Tuktuks could help out in transporting the trash. While I know that they are contributing to the problem, maybe if we provide them with some other means of making money, they might be willing to clean up their acts (pun intended) and buy cleaner vehicles (with government incentives maybe). Heck! Why stop there and urge them to drive new buses or vans that burn fuel cleaner? For those who talk about vehicles being a huge hazard, I would remind you that things were not too, too bad before the fires (local) started. But, I agree with you that all of those motorcycles and tuktuks do not help the situation. A cleaner public transportation system would go a long way in helping the situation.

What do you think?

They will ask you too keep your passport in custody for the rental period though (unfortunately, that's always been the case in all my rental experience around Thailand)

I've seen quite a few posts on motorbike rentals and I'm curious about a few things. I hope someone here can help out.

It seems customary for the business to keep your passport. Has anyone had problems with this? Are there any who will accept a copy of your passport in lieu of the actual passport?

From what I've read, it seems that you don't need an international driver license to rent a motorbike. If the business requires an IDL, do they require a motorcycle endorsement? If you're in an accident with an endorsed IDL, what sort of problems can one expect? Would insurance be a problem if you're riding a rented motorbike without an endorsed IDL?

Just curious as we're planning our trip for later this year. Thanks in advance for your help.

I carry a used passport and Buddy accepted it. Are they fooled or don't care, I don't know?

I think you need an international driving licence, but they took my word for it. However, I am sure the man in brown might not.

BTW, buddy showed me that they are insured, but I am not too sure if this is useful if anything happens to the bike. I had an extensive travelling insurance, which I thought at the time would be covering me for most things. I wonder now if asphyxiation is, but I die ... gress!

BTW, take a few pics of the bike with a date stamp in case they are trying to bill you for old damages. They did not, but the picture taking might be enough of a deterrent to not try anything stupid.

Buddy has been good to me: 15 days/100 Bath/day (high-season) ... 110/115 ccm I think (Honda), but not too sure. I have not tried any other places.

Thank you for the post on medical insurance, but can you tell me more about this "instance" insurance. I am thinking of going to be operated on an operation that is not covered by insurance. So, not all hospital carry this insurance? Where do you find it? What is the exact name? Is it ok for farangs? Is it for any insurance? The hospital I am thinking off is Vanhee International in BKK. Thank you.

My GF states (I guess from Thai news) that "last weekend at Mea Hongson fire in forest { a lot }[sic]" ... and if we add all the other forest fire's smoke (alleged, of course), then this might explains that.

Thanks for the link to the picture.

PS: "sic" should really be "sick", but how lame is that pun! (Ok! I'll answer that one ...as lame as this response!"

Actually, recent research seems to indicate that obesity --and weight gain of any kind-- might be associated with other factors that have not been looked at before.

Read/listen to these scientists and their interesting research in this program Quirks and and quarks on the cbc (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation):

quirks (http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/06-07/feb17.html)

Intro:

Obesity rates around the world have risen dramatically over the last 25 years. In fact, obesity is now considered a worldwide epidemic. Diseases like diabetes, heart disease and other illnesses that are a direct result of weight gain are costing the health care system millions of dollars. The standard argument is that obesity is a disease of affluence -- too much food, and not enough exercise are behind the problem. But there are researchers who argue that the story is more complicated than that; that lifestyles haven't changed enough to explain the big picture.

One of these researchers is Dr. Richard Atkinson. Dr. Atkinson is a clinical professor of pathology at Virginia Commonwealth University. He's seen patients who are morbidly obese, yet eat very little. He's also seen other people who can consume huge numbers of calories without gaining significant amounts of weight. He thinks there are a number of factors we haven't really considered when it comes to understanding obesity. As the editor of the International Journal of Obesity, he recently reviewed a paper that listed birth weight, reduction in smoking, increased age of the mother at a baby's birth and air-conditioning as reasons why obesity levels are on the rise.

Dr. Jeffrey Gordon, from the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, is also looking for factors that contribute to obesity. He's been studying microbes that live in the gut, and has found that the types of bacteria found in the stomach vary between obese and lean mice. Not only that, but by transferring these bacteria into other mice, he can influence whether they'll turn out skinny or fat.

In a similar vein, Dr. Nikhil Dhurandhar is also looking at microbes. But he's studying viruses. He's found a virus that infects chickens, and makes them gain weight. He's tested humans and found that some obese people carry the same virus, suggesting it may be infecting us, too.

All these different factors may be making us fatter, but Dr. Dianne Finegood, Director of the Institute of Nutrition, Metabolism and Diabetes at the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, thinks this is only of limited value to the public. She argues that we also need to come up with solutions for solving the obesity epidemic, regardless of whether we understand all the mechanisms.

Other topics that Kate --and her Christian organisations-- should be interested in answering, above and beyond the ones related to the extreme differences of wealth in Thailand (and in many countries, including the USA, Canada and ,...).

Why did Pim get a baby so young, as this would certainly make her life more difficult if the husband would leave?

Did she do it because:

1) she loved her husband or because she really loved the idea of having a baby, or

2) she loved her husband, but does not have a clue what a stable husband is?

Why do many Thai men get to be alcoholics? Is it just men?

Why is it that many Thai husbands use prositutes, if mariage is supposed to be so blissful?

Why are the customers (Thai and foreigners) always the target of those kinds of articles whereas the pimps are not?

Why is the village and its government not concerned about the real causes of this?

Why is it that many Westerm men come to Thailand for this? (Clue ... interview them! But I doubt we will ever see an article about that. Or will we?)

Is never nice to bad mouth anyone especially when there don't know you are talking bad about them . ( THat what i call SERIOUSLY TWO FACE whahah maybe THREE FACE OR FOUR FACE > )

Wahahahhahahah - what a joke . reading some of the post .

As if these guys did not badmouth me amongst themselves. You cannot be that gullible!

Please! Spare me the nonsense and the lesson of morality! Methink the guard does not have any. The gloves are off because he did not use any!

Your sense of morality --as your logic-- has/have always baffled me, but this tops that.

In our culture we value ethics and manners. Maybe you don't! Maybe in your culture, it does not matter! It is whoever has the biggest gun that matters. It is whoever uses a situation to its advantage even though someone extends his hand and a friendship, makes himself vulnerable. So, let me enlighten you on the way we deal with things in Western cultures. Since not all citizens have good morals or ethics, most stable citizens try to sanction their behaviour in whatever legal means possible so that they might think twice about doing it again. Considering he (and his sister and friend) did not steal (technically speaking) anything from me, there is little I can do legally. In this case, considering the guard had the upper hand --and probably used it to get as much as he could-- it is only fitting that I use this way to get back at him. Ditto for the restaurant and the shop owners who acted disfunctionally. I would not write this or do this had they acted without any reproach. There are consequences to all actions and negative consequences to negative behaviour.

Now, I know in Thai culture, because he made me lose face, I should stab the guard (they do that all the time apparently). Considering what they would do and what I am doing, I would describe my behaviour moderate ... My PHET.

Good point. ^

I would like Marco to remove his reply and I will remove mine.

The fact that you have never had any problems with the people mentioned is important just like my comment about these people.

You have to know that I wanted to take the brother of the lady owner of the store (older woman) and she decided to come with us (or he brought her along) and brought another lady and a kid. I was at the beginning of my trip and they showed me the bill. SInce they were driving, I had to pay, if not they could have made me walk! The 500 baths were not too high for me, of course, but for them it was a big deal. So, I don't trust the guard and the sister. And the guy who is in the office are good friends with them. In fact, I think they all hire their friends,... Put yourself in my shoes. I extent an arm to them and they screw me.

You have to admit that this is really bad. I have never had this happened to me in my life. For people who shouts and screams that they don't want to lose face, it is paradoxical that they would have no problem whatsoever to make other lose face.

For the 2 great minds above ...

Mamma mia, reading some stuff, I guess I'm living on the moon.

Besides two faced people and all that trash (man get a life and leave people alone) , who in his right mind spends his nights in the court yard of a condo?

What the hel_l did you expect, champagne and tuxedos?

Yah 40 baht for the pool is way too much expecially because it's always empty and I don't have to fight with 2000 kids for a swim or take the car and fight with 2000000 bastards to get to the freaking stadium.

Adsl is really a pain sometimes, but lately (1 week) it's seems they changed something ( iknow 'caues I had a chat with the internet guy...no he is no 2 faced ...) and it's much better ( I'm actually downloading at 45 kb lately), crossing fingers.

Man they overcharged you 2 calls , wow 30 baht and 2 times, let me think that is ...oh yeah about .60 euro cents, man surely a dent in your account....

<deleted>, things you'll tell to your grandsons one day...

edit:

I almost forgot, last year , one of the girls at the office found out my bill for the electricity was a bit too high, so she sent a guy to read again and indeed there was a mistake and she gave me back 300 baht. yeah watch your back..they gonna get you..shhishh

Khunmarco

I am really confused and stupefied by your attitude. You do make a few valid points, but I am sad that you would feel the need to belittle my comments. What really irks me though is that ... you are criticizing me for criticizing!

Now, you are right! On the surface, the items mentioned are petty, but if 20,000 people experience this or that, then it is not anymore, is it? Beside, it is possible that it could get worse. Beside, the employees could be lining their pockets. That money could be small change for us, but it (if repeated) could mean a lot at the end of the month for the Thais. After all, there was a change of employees at HK res. I had absolutely no issues last year and I related this (on a different thread).

Also, I believe that what I view as unethical and/or disfunctional behaviour need(s) to be highlighted, if not it/they'll continue(s) to take place. I think it is important for non-informed people to know if they are going to be taken advantage of. Sure! The pool is empty, which makes the entrance price much more palatable, but it is also true that people might enjoy the 50 m. size pool at 700 k stadium. I have always seen the parking lot empty and the pool too.

So, I wonder why are you defending what appears to be disfunctional people or unethical actions? This is very strange behaviour. Do you defend criminals for a living? And, I could have done without the sarcasm,... which is disfunctional, BTW.

BTW, I never said that all of the people there were two-faced. I only mentioned a few people. Remember: a Thai smile does not necessarily means "I am happy!" Expats who have been here for a while know this, I think, but I grant you that it could be hard to understand this if one is a newcomer or unaware.

I have included a picture of the 50 m. pool taken in the afternoon ... but on a week day, mind you.

See above (Al Jazeera interview):

"You really have to sit down with the leaders who create the problem [...]"

Leaders ... "who CREATE problems",... there is a slip of the tongue!

Yes! Of course! When problems are solved there might not be so much of a need for them! Right? So, sometimes, it is good to make it appear as it is the other side that's doing something wrong to make the problem continue. Leaders --in general-- are the scum of the earth. Most of them have to do dirty business to get there. Nixon is good example, but there are countless examples. Just check your boss.

As I said earlier, Thailand wants to hang on to something that was given to them in a past treaty. However, the British should not have offered this in the first place. The leader of the time did accept it though (with some money in his bank account, no doubt, but I digress).

It is going to take someone very ... functional to do what is right here and give back to Malaysia what belongs to Malaysia (since those people are from there).

I think that, initially, we were dealing with a separatist movement (that had some form of legitimacy, considering that these provinces are not real Thai provinces,...), but I think that Al Qaeda has infiltrated the movement or is using the situation. YOu would think that the movement leaders would have used T.'s departure as a way to resolve this issue. Al Qaeda wan't to keep the fire alive, just like some extremists want. What wold hey be doing if this was resolved? Just like in Palestine, whenever there is a glimmer of hope, more bombings take place. If Thailand was smart, they would talk with Malaysia and make a treaty to give them back what belonged to them. Of course, greed has to be set aside. As if that's going to happen!

How about a LIST of Bars and restaurants in CM that have a COMPLETE Ban on the <deleted>**g Stinking Rotten Smelly Puk inducing habit....mai chooooorp....so Where? ...eh...yes..chai....u tee nai...

Get your forks and knives out .... (I mean spoons) and dig in ... or dig out rather!

Hey if the place does not survive, you could always stay home and have your own party, just think your own no smoking venue and your choice of music and you have the whole dance floor to yourself. your dreams have come true and the added bonus your living in cm.

Survive? Heck! YOU might be on to something!

Methink that places like bubbles and Spciy will soon be filled with non-smokers, as smokers instead of dropping by will be soon be ... dropping ... like flies! I am a bit jealous though that they will be dropping by hospitals too and be taking care of by gorgeous Thai nurses !

pardon just too lazy to read all your reply . only reach the part you think i was giving you sarcasm

dude - you should relax . you assume too much , and think too much about what people said . just relax ok .

and is not that nice to assume what you said either . have a nice day saving the world ok i will go enjoy myself the way i like

what nuclear ? there are not much nuclear in thailand i hope whahhahahah

is that why you come thailand ? is there nuclear power station in your country ?

dying from stress is more sad then all the above . so i hope you cheer up soon

live and let live

Relax? ME? Are you kidding me?

I just recommend a place for non-smokers to go dance and you go ballistic ... as in nuclear ballistic!

Something does not quite jive here (pun intended)!

I am guessing this is www.huaykeawresidence.com

I stayed there for 4 months.

TINY apartment, rock hard mattress, unbearable internet, and a likely chance of of riding the elevated with some gelee with a mouthful of, well you get the picture and YES this is a true story, along with the drunk 50 year old thai lady stripping for me and asking me if I thought "mama" looked fat...

The furniture is decent, the shower is good, the TV is ok too, the security is nice, but if you lock yourself out past 6pm you are spending the night elsewhere. Lucky for me I crashed at a friend's dorm at CMU, though I had to go to work wearing the same clothes the next day since they don't open til 9am...

With the aircon set at 24-26 and off from 6:30am to 3:30pm, long showers, and a laptop in constant use I ended up seeing about 5,500B per month while I was there. They were really nice to me when i left and I didn't get my room scanned with a white glove. I can't talk about the pool or fitness since I left prior, but there is a cute pair of sisters whose parents own the laundry store there. Amost went somewhere till something seemed a miss and got a Thai friend involved who gave me the prompt advice of "run far away"

Ok that's it for my novel...

I stayed there too twice.

I got my room scanned the 2nd time I left ... Thanks to some digital pictures I took they did not charge me for anything, but they were going to. Be careful when --initially-- they tell you that this or that does not matter. They overcharged me for 2 phone calls (40 Baths VS 10 baths) ... not huge, but it could add up.

The head guard is a 2-faced Thai guy whom I tried to befriend and he took advantage. Careful, his older sister runs the grocery store and she seems in cahoots with some of the office guys/girls. Basically, they all protect each other.

The corner restaurant is run by a weird guy who does not appear to smile or appreciate customers. His GF is a 2-faced woman, in my experience.

The side cafe's food is ok and priced right, but the ones who run have left their smiles at home (but then at least they are not the fake-smiles type).

The laundry room is useful. The internet is erratic, but not bad.

The pool is expensive. Go to 700 y. stadium > 50 m. for 20 baths with a membership.

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

Yes, petrol and diesel exhaust fumes quietly go unmentioned in all this fuss about air quality and smoking. But they contain just as bad, if not worse carcinogenic compounds.

On the subject of passive smoking, a few years back they did a test on TV where they took a swab from the inside of the mouth of a non-smoking barmaid in a London pub. They evaluated the levels of nicotine and pronounced that she was running a 50% greater risk of contracting lung cancer

than if she worked in a non-smoking atmosphere.

OH MY GOD! SHOCK HORROR! We're all going to die, the sky is falling in!

What never got analysed, nor mentioned, was that OK she has a 50% greater chance of going down with the big C. But this means that non-smokers working in an entirely non-smoking atmosphere still run the risk of lung cancer. So what is that risk? It has to be pretty small otherwise the decreased risk associated with not smoking is not worth worrying about. So let's pick a number, one in a million? No let's go silly, one in a hundred thousand. So in two hundred thousand non's in a non-smoking atmosphere two will get it against three in a smoking atmosphere.

So to return to MyPenRye's analogy with a guy shooting him being equal to a smoker, the gunman is a pretty lousy shot eh?

Mmmm! I must agree with you! The risk of being killed by a gunman is much higher than by a cigarette smoker! However, the point is that a cigarette still can kill people (and smoking is a pretty darn nuisance). I would prefer to LIMIT my risks rather than adding all of them! That just me! Now, if I liked the smell, you might have an argument as it might make my life more pleasurable and I might be more relaxed and happier,... However, smoking dries my eyes. BTW, I never stated that I was in favour of cars spewing mercury in the air either! So, you and Ta22 should go smoking near a nuclear waste disposal! I assume that you know something about probability! The sum of all of those small risks might --I would think, at the end-- amount to something pretty significant! No? And, BTW, cancer is not the only way 2nd-hand and first-hand smoke can kill you. Please read on.

Here are stats from the American Cancer Association which should be a pretty reliable source of information. http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/..._Indoor_Air.asp

Secondhand smoke is classified as a "known human carcinogen" (cancer-causing agent) by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the US National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), a branch of the World Health Organization.

Tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds. More than 60 of these are known or suspected to cause cancer.

Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

an estimated 35,000 deaths from heart disease in people who live with smokers but are not current smokers

about 3,400 lung cancer deaths in nonsmoking adults

other respiratory problems in nonsmokers, including coughing, phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function

150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations

increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million asthmatic children

increased incidence of middle ear infections in young children

Pregnant women exposed to ETS are also at increased risk of having low birth weight babies.

An issue that continues to be an active focus of scientific research is whether secondhand smoke may increase the risk of breast cancer. Both mainstream and secondhand smoke contain about 20 chemicals that, in high concentrations, cause breast cancer in rodents. Chemicals in tobacco smoke reach breast tissue and are found in breast milk.

The evidence regarding secondhand smoke and breast cancer risk in human studies is controversial, at least in part because the risk has not been shown to be increased in active smokers. One possible explanation for this is that tobacco smoke may have different effects on breast cancer risk in smokers and in those who are just exposed to smoke.

A report from the California Environmental Protection Agency in 2005 concluded that the evidence regarding secondhand smoke and breast cancer is "consistent with a causal association" in younger, mainly premenopausal women. The 2006 US Surgeon General's report, The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke, concluded that there is "suggestive but not sufficient" evidence of a link at this point. In any case, women should be told that this possible link to breast cancer is yet another reason to avoid contact with secondhand smoke.

The 2006 US Surgeon General's report reached several important conclusions:

Secondhand smoke causes premature death and disease in children and in adults who do not smoke.

Children exposed to secondhand smoke are at an increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), acute respiratory infections, ear problems, and more severe asthma. Smoking by parents causes respiratory symptoms and slows lung growth in their children.

Exposure of adults to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system and causes coronary heart disease and lung cancer.

The scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

Many millions of Americans, both children and adults, are still exposed to secondhand smoke in their homes and workplaces despite substantial progress in tobacco control.

Eliminating smoking in indoor spaces fully protects nonsmokers from exposure to secondhand smoke. Separating smokers from nonsmokers, cleaning the air, and ventilating buildings cannot eliminate exposures of nonsmokers to secondhand smoke.

>> I guess you and Ta22 like to live dangerously. Good! Like I said, ... eat radioactive, dioxin-filled, moldy food in a smoky place surrounded with mines! I dare you!

>> What I am trying to state is that I try to reduce my chance of someone or something killing me, in the short-term or long-term. If you want to take risks, go ahead, but --FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE-- don't force others to take the same risks! Have you ever tried to cross the road without looking first?

So to return to an earlier comment of mine, it's the management who makes the rules based on attracting a certain type/class of customer and if they don't get the custom they consider a change to the rules. I've never been to a bar/pub/nightclub or anywhere where the customers make the rules. If anyone knows of such a place please let me know (PM preferrably, we don't want anyone else learning of this eutopia).

>> You are partly wrong here, I think. While customers don't make the rules, government agencies do as much as owners. I suspect you are for free-enterprise, in which case I would hope that you would be the one carrying the biggest gun! Darn! I love guns!

PS just in case accusations are gonna fly, I've never smoked a cigarette or cigar or pipe in my life so I don't have any kind of vested interest in the subject. I just use that old fashioned thing called personal choice, try it you never know you might just lighten up and enjoy life a bit more.

we have one world -

as much as we alway try to change others , sometime is better to look into oneself.

>> Mmmm! We have one world! Yes! Not an Earth shattering (excuse the pun) revelation, but we do! (In fact, it is likely that there are many planets that have earth-like conditions, but I think I might be accuse of digression). I feel I am given a lesson here! I am not sure that I need it, however! I am not too sure that then one who is giving it has earned the right to give it! DUDE (to use your condescending way of communicating), it is the essence of human beings to change, to improve, to make things better! Are you suggesting that we all go back to a cave and blow on pieces of wood? Maybe you are a proponent of censorship? Maybe you are a proponent of forbidding constructive criticism? And, BTW, since when criticising others is mutually exclusive with a healthy dose of introspection?

i don't think is nice to call others idiot . - no matter which country there are from .

maybe a different in idea and thinking .

>> This was sarcasm! I am Canadian, ... DUDE!

eg. smoking . i personally don't smoke . for your info .. the exhust flame from cars kill you the same way smoke kill you ,

why not you stay in the room or suggest people to stop driving ?

>> So, to follow your argument, we should accept everything the way it is. Who cares about the Tchernobyl inhabitants who died of cancer after the nuclear catastrophe? Hey! Let's build another of those somewhere else. Would you be interested in heeding your advice and live nearby? Mmm! I dooubt it! Who cares about the Bhopal inhabitants who died? In fact who cares about the untouchables in India? Hey! Life is te way it is? You are either f*cked or you are not! Of course, the ones who have $3 million do not have to beg for money, do not have to live near a nuclear power plant, do not have to live at Bhopal. Honestly, people like you are an embarrassment to the human race. Is there a difference between you and a psychopath?

there are many thing that kill you . and to make it simple we all die sooner or later . is nto how safe you walk your path in life is how much had you enjoy it .

>> Let's copy and past that last argument. Maybe you might understand its content te second time around. ... So, to follow your argument, we should accept everything the way they are. Who cares about the Tchernobyl inhabitants who died of cancer after the nuclear catastrophe? Who cares about the Bhopal inhabitants who died? In fact who cares about the untouchables in India? Hey! Life is te way it is? You are either f*cked or you are not! Of course, the ones who have $3 million do not have to beg for money, do not have to live near a nuclear power plant, do not have to live at Bhopal. Honestly, people like you are an embarrassment to the human race. Is there a difference between you and a psychopath?

lighten up dude you need to cheer up .

when respect is given to other i am sure respect will be granted back .

many problem start from oneself and the simple idea of how you see this world .

>> I have got news for you. I should not (and in fact,... no one) should respect others who do not respect me or do not respect other people. When you smoke in someone else's face or fail to follow proper safety measures because you want that extra one million, or you want to show off your macho car, you are not showing respect for human life and you don't deserve much respect. Sorry, DUDE! I hope that no one come close to running you over, making you handicapped. Hey! DUDE! I hope you heed your advice and ... LIGHTEN UP!

i once heard someone saying . that a monk said whahahh if you find this town bad .

no matter where you go the next town is going to have the same problem .

live and let live .

>> Oh! Now we are including monks! Monks are human beings! NO MORE and NO LESS! DUDE, ... some people look to improve human condition. Of course, those who were born --like you-- with money, I am sure that you do not CARE to have others get a better life. (I have met this guy and I know his background!)