Maizefarmer

Think I’ll wade in here - I know the c/f market and how it works better than most.

Firstly – for the benefit of the OP, nearly all genuine brand name articles such as clothing like Nike, Puma, Levi ect ect ect ….. are more expensive in Thailand than in Western countries. There is little to no cost advantage purchasing them here.

This is in part due to the pricing policy of the brand name owner – who knows that the products made for the Western market are in any event only going to appeal to that portion of the Thai market with disposable income.

And it’s part due to the BOI rules and regs surrounding the selling in Thailand of branded products earmarked for the export market – selling them in Thailand, despite the fact that they are manufactured here, does not exempt them from duties that would apply if they were imported to sell in Thailand. It’s a BOI rule/regulation, and it’s deliberately put there.

Okay – that deals with the OP’s original question: let’s deal with the counterfeiting (C/F) and brand names – and some of the comments so far on this thread.

An established brand name is a product from a manufacturer who understands consumer psychology, not necessarily a manufacturer who makes a good quality product. The idea that because the brand name is famous and well established should not imply that it is necessarily a better product. After all, how do you measure the quality of jeans?

Is it in thread count per inch, weight per bolt yard, colour, pattern & cut, how long they last, how they hang ect ect etc ……… ?

Sorry, I don’t know – but I can tell you that one thing is certain: Levi got the product right for the market it was aimed at – which originally, was ironically not a “designer” market, but a working man/labourers market (hence the use of rivets – Clue 1 to C/F 501's: look closely at genuine 501 rivets versus – C/F rivets – that’s usually one give away). The result: the product Levi made appealed well to the market and the brand name owner has since built on that very well to establish the brand name.

There are a whole bunch of characteristics about the 501 that the punter in the street has no knowledge about when it comes to recognising genuine from C/F – and it can take an expert to recognise a C/F from a genuine. Believe me, folk who say they can tell a genuine pair of 501’s from a C/F pair, may well be able to when dealing with poor quality 501’s, but unless you have been trained by 501 to recognise certain of characteristics, you may not be able to recognise a well made pair of C/F’s – and Levi do not advertise or share with law enforcement all of the unique characteristics - not least of which is, if the jeans say “Made in Thailand” they are not genuine – because Levi’s 501 and the cloth used in Levi’s 501 comes from 1 of only 2 or 3 factories world wide – and Thailand ain’t any of them.

Clue 2: look very closely at the registered “Two Horse” leather patch – firstly, thats on genuine leather, but also at the fine embossed graphics detail – C/F producers more often than not make mistakes here.

Clue 3: look carefully at the printed markings inside the cloth of the 501 jeans: they are unique and provide quite a bit of information, which C/F producers often don’t understand the significance of, or bank on the ignorance purchaser not understanding the significance of - and believ me, 99% of 501 purchasers do not understand the siginficane of the inside markings.

Clues 4 ... thru to 501 ... I don;t even know them myself, but there are lots and lots ......

You can buy genuine smuggled 501 imports, I know 2 shops in Bkk that sell genuine smuggled imports – one of them, looking from the front of MBK on the ground floor far end, left hand side (on your way now).

The whole point of all this has little to do with quality, although it’s undoubted that prominent brand name owners do make and effort to set quality standards, whats more important to them is maintaining an image and understanding consumer psychology – that is largerly what establishing and maintaining a brand name image is all about.

On the subject of – does the brand name owner own the factory or not, as someone ahs asked?

Very good question – in fact understanding the issues surrounding factory ownership goes along way to understanding the problems that brand name owners themselves have in dealing with a lot of the C/F that turns up on the Thai and South East Asian market. The answer is, no - many brand name owners have nothing to do with factories and own none: I’ll explain.

Odd as it may be, a lot of C/F actually comes out of factories where the genuine product is made.

Lets take 2 examples: Tommy Hillfiger and Nike – both these brand names own NO factories of their own: they sub contract production to 3rd party manufacturers, and there has been a big stink in the past with TH 3rd party production, and the conditions workers in some of the 3rd party TH factories live and work in – and there was also an IRS investigation into old man Hillfiger himself, and his “alleged” shareholding in some of the factories in Thailand, which he swore he was not a shareholder of – but neither of these points have much to do with the subject matter at hand, I just mention them in case there is someone out there who comes back ands says, “well, TH himself does own factories” – he doesn’t believe me, he doesn’t.

Both Nike and TH (and many other brand name owners) are designers first and foremost who own the intellectual property associated with their products, and who run business models that avoid ownership and management of the production facilities. The issue gets complicated at times – especially in the production of shoes – and this is where/how you get so-called “genuine counterfeits”.

Take a look at the sole on your Nike (or Puma or whatever else) – it tends to be quite unique.

For each new shoe that Nike makes, it has to have a set of sole molds made up for the left & right hand shoe, and for each children’s and each adult size and half size a separate set of molds need to be made. Then, all these molds need to be repeated for each factory commissioned to manufacture the shoes. These molds cost a whacking lot of money to produce – not far off $25K for each pair size, which adds up to quite a bit for each new shoe model.

These molds are the key to manufacturing the shoe – and C/F or genuine, the mold is key.

Keeping control over the molds and how they are used in 3rd party factories/production facilties is the problem for brand name owners – loose control of the mold and you loose control of production.

Typically what happens, is that unethical licensed producers will get a set of molds and an order from the brand name owner for x amount of pairs of a shoe type, but secretly they will run off 2 x the contract amount - but hide the extra soles. They then pass on the extra soles to another factory which has spare production capacity, along with the shoe upper pattern. That factory will then get its staff to quite innocently and unknowlingly produce the shoe. But the key to this is the shoe sole mold – without that there would be no feasibility in making counterfeits, because C/F’ing shoes to sell on the cheap SEA markets does not justify the manufacture of molds.

That genuine Nike or Puma you purchase for $100 - $150 costs no more than $10 – 20 to produce in terms of labour and material costs. As such there is enourmous profit to be made by C/F producers.

… and the problem is similar in respect of Levi 501’s – except that the uniqueness lies in the weight and thread count of the denim and understanding the small markings that separate the genuines from the C/F’s – which most folk can’t notice – only the true fanatics will be able to pick out 501 denim long side non-501 denim – and that is exactly what the C/F producer is relying on: so long as it looks good enough to the buyer, they are good enough.

Lacoste – Thailand is a huge manufacturing base for C/F Lacoste, and one time a year guys from Lacoste come out to Thailand and do a walk around all the markets. It’s then followed up with a serious of raids.

The easy thing about C/F'ing shirts, is that, unlike shoes, they don’t need a mold – at worst they need some fancy silk-screening and lable making.

It’s interesting to note an earlier member making the observation with respect to c/f branded leather: the product and the lable are kept apart until the last moment….

And that is exactly the issue that makes confiscating branded clothing so difficult - the timing of the raid has to be spot on. The law that applies to branded clothing is brand name (versus copy right or trade mark – although these to latter laws can be applied, in Thailand it’s mostly brand name).

The labels will be made and kept at one location, and the actual article of clothing at a second location. The two will only come together when the c/f producer has his order and has been paid – he will then as quick as possible put the label on and get the goods to the buyer. As soon as they are off his hands he’s got rid of the “problem”.

So – is the fake gear good quality or not?

It may not be, it may be – remember fakes can oddly enough be genuine, but unauthorised production, so they will be at least as good as the genuine article.

Fakes can also come from factories that have no connection at all to genuine production, but they may or may not use comparable materials, and what determines that is how good the C/F’er wants the fake to look. The quality of a C/F product is as much about how much the C/F is willing to spend in production as it is in the market he wants to sell the product on: if it’s targeted at the SEA market then generally the quality of the material is lower than those fakes which are manufactured for smuggling to and distribution in Europe.

So fakes can be as good as the genuine product, but as a rule they tend not to be.

I’ve mentioned a couple of brand names here, but the problems described are not exclusive to these brand name owners – they are across the board and all brand name owners suffer from the same set of problems ... and the problems mentioned are but a small example of the issues asscoaited with genuine versus C/F .

billd766

The weight of the water should not be an issue: using a large diameter pipe to reduce friction losses is always a good idea on long run with limited pump power, but at the start and the end of the run you can insert a "choke" - effectively a reducer, which will off-set the weight in the large diameter run to that consistant with the diameter of the choke. Weight is static - its backpressure and nothing more, and proportional to the surface area.

So don;t let the water weight compound the calc's for you.

If you share with me your ideal flow rate and the actual rise, I'll be happy to reply with a power/ setup opinion - and for what it worth, pumps/irrigation/hydraulics (fluid dynamics) is actually my speciality within ag engineering - ironically, although I've done a lot of courses and attended a lot of tarining modules over the years, I never actually trained as a dairy farmer (thats all self taught over the last 2 decades).

Yes - there are a few, but its very few.

Khao Yai is one area - a woman collecting wild mushrooms was attacked about 18months ago by a tiger that bit her on the shoulder quite badly, but then ran off. The boarder area between Thailand and Cambodia is another area where wild tigers are still seen from time to time and paw prints are still found.

The problem is, because of expanding human habitation, the roaming area of the few reamining wild animals has become so large that it's now near on impossible to work out just how many there are, who's who and where any one animal is at any time. One tiger that was caught and tagged in the Khao Yai area in the mid-90's was then found again a couple years later up on the border area of Cambodia/Thailand.

Thailand is the Switzerland of Asia. Where you think all that Golden Triangle drug money has been laundered from these last 40 years? You've got Laos which when I went there in 2005 didn't have ATMs, Myanmar and Vietnam (which has been a part of the civilized world for an entire 10 years now)... Gotta clean that money.

No surprise that people like Mr. Bout end up in Thailand to conduct business.

On the issue of Bout ... lets not forget it was Uncle Sam who enticed Viktor Bout to Thailand i.e. it was the Amercian's in this case who setteled on Thailand as been the ideal location for conducting dodgey business.

Ironically, as it has nowed turned out, it's a Thai judge who has ruled against the USA's extradition request, stating that, the issue of whether or not FARC is a terrorist organisation is esentialy a politicaly motivated decision, and that as Thailand has no ruling or policy one way or the other on the status of FARC in this regard, an extradition request based on a 3rd parties political motives/grounds/reasons cannot be upheld in a jurisdiction (meaning: Thailand) which adopts a neutral standpoint.

I kinda like that, and it's an argument not without merit - the judge has made it clear because the USA subscribes to an opinion about FARC, should not automaticaly imply everyone else has to go along with that opinion.

As another member notes - the USA's involvement with and business in supporting the School of the America's is not politicaly dissimilar to what Viktor Bout is accused of with respect to his willingness to do business with FARC.

Funny, isn't it, that if it doesn't suit Uncle Sam's foreign policy, then it should be "illegal".

I sincerely hope that Uncle Sam looses this battle.

Bout was in court today - and looks like he has beat Uncle Sam (for the time been at least).

Judge apparently has said that Thailand does not recognise FARC as a terrorist group, and therefore the extradition asked for by the USA is politicaly based, and therefore there are no grounds for Thailand to agree to the extradition!!

Does anyone know of a trusted company that could ship 2 or 3 gearboxes(and a few other random parts) on a pallet,i expect the max weight to be 250kg.Doesn't need to arrive particulaly fast.Any ideas would be great,thanks

I ship in used tractors and used tractor parts, and other used ag equip on a quaterly basis from Southampton and/or Rotterdam - on containers which attracts duties of around 5%. If we can come to an agreement I'd be happy to include your gearbox (pretty sure we can bget it through as some tractor part).

Next lot coming through end September.

Are these parts UK based - where in the UK?

JW Red and Gold are the "Coca Cola" of the whiskey world - very good marketing and sales which has established the name world wide (especialy in the Far East - big in Japan), but its a very average product quality wise.

Real whiskies (and dam_n good whiskies) - Laphroaig, Lagavulin and some old Springbank's - now JW starts to look like a cheap brandname cola alternative alongside genuine Coke.

By the way:

- Thailand is JW's 3rd largest market in the world

- the "Keep Walking" campaign, which has turned out to be JW's most successful marketing campaing ever, was launched in Thailand.

- JW Blue (JW's rarest whiskey) comes in various guises - top of which is the "King George V" crystal decantered edition - I have one (un-opened) engraved with a picture of His Majesty the King. Got to be worth something to a Thai whiskey collector. Any offers?

Knowing something is one thing - proving it is another - and one thing the West likes to make sure of (or at least portray its self as liking to make sure of) is that due process is undertaken correctly - not in the way it is often carried out in Thailand.

That means a formal accusation being made, then the accusation been investigated, statements been taken, then charges been defined, then an arrest warrent been issued ect ect ect ...... er, quite unlike how one is accustomed to such matters been done in Thailand - and that means time - lot's and lot's of time - it takes years.

If its mean't to happen, it wil happen in due course - though I suspect you may well be a little hard pressed to find enough folk living in Thailand who would a) be willing to make the accusation formally and give a statement (considering the risk they would in turn face), and be able to prove it.

I told the missus I want to get a cow and get the dudes that live on the famr to milk it each morning, giving us fresh milk and most of all....my favourite, cream.

Just like i remember on my grandparents farm, it would go straight in the fridge and be consumed, any left given to the cats.

Missus said we would have to buy a pastueriser to treat it before we could drink it cos of all the bacteriea and shit.....I laughed, quietly.

Raw milk .... the best milk.

Experiance experiance and more experiance ..... it's a cut throat market in Thailand, with a lot of backhanders taking place to get access to seats at decent prices - haulers don't cut agents much slack when it comes to margins on seats - they are awful in Thailand, so do a lot of homework. I trust you understand Amadeus and Gallilao, and you have entertained the man from mastercard, and from Visa and from Amex - they too don;t cut travel agents much slack when it comes to margins.

Thats airfares out the way - what about hotels, elephant trips, tickets fro the waterpark and the 1001 other things that agents sell tickets for in Thailand.... it's a lot of marketing expense.

Personally, I know nothing about travel agents - except I know 2 expats got into the business a few years back. One lasted about 18 months and the other about 3 years, but at the end of the day they both had the same thing to say: too many "mom & pop" travel agents in town which resulted in too small margins to make the business vaible for the amount of paperwork and hours involved.

The formality side of it I guess wouldn't be much different to setting up any other Thai business - get your directors, get your sharholders (and if you're an American citizen look into using the Treaty of Amity rules & regs to set the business up), but it will be the easy part, that you can be sure of.

All the best.

Personaly, I have never believed that organic food is better food. From a nutrional perspective there is nothing in it that makes much diff to one's health, and from a health and safety persepective, the reg's in place nowadays with respect to just about all food marketed/sold are so stringent that any pesticide residue (the major diff between non-organic and organic) is quickly picked up in random testing.

But, to limit the debate on organic versus non-organic to it's "quality! from a consumption perspective only, is to miss a very important point about organic food production - and that is it's impact on the enviroment, and on that very point if there is a country in SEA (South East Asia) where this could not be more relivant if we wanted it to be, it's Thailand.

The big plus point with organic food is the reduction in pesticides/herbicides and other processed chemical additives that are used in production, in many cases (depending on how "organic" is defined and used) complete emilination.

Here in Thailand we have rampant abuse of herbicides and pesticides. Compounding the problem is the wide avalibility of counterfeited brandname pesticides and herbicides - usualy offered somewhat cheaper than the genuine product but with active ingredient and other additives that far exceed that on the label or that permitted.

The result: Thailand has some of the highest ag chemical run off into streams and underground aquifers that occurs in SEA. The long term legacy, both in terms of human health (and many of these chemicals take a generation or 2 before they manifest themselves in human health as chronic conditions) and impact on the enviroment has yet to properly understood, but make no mistake about it, as the SEA population continues to gow expontentialy with the accompanying demand for food production, so too will the long term impact of chemical residue in the enviroment.

So: is organic food better?

You bet it is - you just know where and how to take the measurment and make the assessement.

Let me make sure I understand this correctly ...... after what they done to Dale, they then used the acces they had to his bank account (through his partner) to pay for bail - is that correct?

The child is automatically a UK citizen? - are we sure about this?

My understanding is that the child may well qualify for citizenship, but an application has to be made first before the citizenship is granted. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

As for "dual nationality" issues (which I am sure about): in respect of Thailand its a non-issue nowadays - Thailand doesn;t object to Thai's having another citizenship, but what dual nationals need to keep in mind (yes - I know its not part of the original question, but it always comes up) is that, not withstanding their other citizenship they are legally Thai citizens if/when in Thailand - and the old trick of entering into Thailand using the other citizenship passport/ID is firstly illegal and secondly, offers the individual no "protection" or "right" to claim or use that other citizenship.

Yeap...Child concerned is a British citizen, The Childs Children may or may not qualify for British citizenship, dependent on the circumstances..

Yup - you are correct: it is indeed automatic - "by decent". ..... but that their children would not automatically be a UK citizen? - can someone explain.

UHT - Ultra High Temp: steam is used to steralise the milk, and kill off most of the natural bacteria. Takes palce at around 130 - 140degree C. The milk then has to be sealed in whatever container its put into.

The result: while it messes up the natural taste, it is then able to last for months and months and doesn't need to be refrigerated. Popular in rural areas all over the world for obvious regions.

There's been a bit of talk about pond liners, so I thought I'd post the info I've found.

Ideally we wanted EPDM liner, however we've been unsuccessful. So it looks like we'll have to settle for UV treated PVC with a 5 year guarantee. After hunting around for prices, the best we've got is 30 x 2m rolls for:

1mm = B135 per meter (although I have to confirm this price)

1.5mm = B185 per meter

We'll be raising fish to eat in the pond, so I was a bit worried about nasties leeching from PVC, however it seems the stuff is commonly used for prawns etc., so I figure I'm already getting my fair share.

To be on the safe side, I will probably go for the 1.5mm. If anyone has comments on additional info, pls post.

Smithson - some more detail please: take a piece of the 1mm think film measuring around 20cm by around 5cm - stretch it, and tell me how far it stretches before it tears. ... I'm trying to get an idea of just what type of film you have there.

Test 2: light a piece with a cig lighter - is the smoke white or black?

Those 2 basic tests will be a good indicator of the compound used in this film, and I'll then offer a comment regards what "nasties" are likely to leak out opver time.

Bentonite, Gary - excellent stuff, but on the scale the Op is wanting to do it on, me thinks the cost would be prohibitive. Now that billd766 has laid out the detail a bit more, I am even more inclide to think that a plastic lining is his only viable option.

Billd766 - nice to see someone who has got to grips with the cost of moving water - its what I'm afraid a lot of folk don't do in Thailand, and moving water, wheather its through a sprinkler (always the most expensive), through a long pipe, up a hill ... or whatever, is always least expensive at low flow & pressure rates - and using ac electricity - think you could get that down to around Baht 10 p/cube (meter) - but as I said, it will be a low flow rate (meaning: what you are now moving over say a couple hours will take maybe 6 -7hrs. Still, if collectively, that is sufficient on a daily, or whatever basis, it would be worth doing, wouldn't it?

Does anybody know where I can buy a small egg incubator in Thailand? Siitable for hatching duck or turkey eggs. Have tried Google withot success.

Thanks.

At Sa Too Jak Market (the new Sanamluang Weekends Market) near Bkk?

Can someone tells me the price of a manual chicken eggs incubator in Thailand? Thanks: [email protected]

Incubator and egg turner is no more than a 555 IC timer chip (about Baht 100 at MBK shopping center), a small dc motor from any scrapyard (voltage not important 6vdc - 48vdc - youre running it from a 555 chip so its going to be pulse width modulated), a couple of infra-red lights (from your local hardware store) a few pieces of timber, some dowling, foam rubber, a bicycle chain and front & rear cogs, and lastly any old 12vdc transformer with around 500milliAmp to 1 Amp output ..... some running around to get the parts (all the electronic parts you can get from radio Shack in Bkk) and your time, half a day to a day to knock together.

... oh, and some srcap wire, a soldering iron, saw, hammer and screws or nails.

Total? - I guess around baht 2k or so ... and it will last 4ever.

rethaired

You realise that 30K puts her in the top 10% or so of income earners in Thailand?

If this was a European girl asking you for a similar monthly stipend back home, and/or getting upset when you offered to buy a car for her to use, but then got upset when you expressed releuctance to put it in her name - how would you re-act?

You'd be pretty taken aback wouldn't - you'd think she had a bloody cheek - chances are its not the sort of partner you'd want.

Well, hel_l - just why should it be any more "acceptable" for a Thai girl to behave like that. It's not and don't for one moment think it is because it isn't - it's as much an "abuse" happening in Thailand, as it would be if it happened back home.

Thai girls/partners are no different to partners elswhere in the world - she understands for well that what she is asking of you is no more proper or acceptable than a European partner asking the same of you in similar circumstances back home - what she is relieing on, is a practise that small group of Thai girls in the so-called "bright lights" industry become expert at, and that is getting their ex-pat partner to think and accept that their relationship revolves around a set of values associated with "money". It's abusive and they know it.

Don't get sucked into belieiving that managing a successfull long term relationship here in Thailand is any different to how you'd manage it back home. If its not something you'd be comfortable doing back home with a European partner, why be any more comfortable with it, or think it any more acceptable here in Thailand?

All these posts and still nobody answered this question: wouldn't "auto-erotic asphyxiation" leave very visible marks on your neck the next day? David Carradine was scheduled to begin shooting for his next film the very next day!

Please tell me how it makes sense that he would hang himself in a closet with every risk of passing out and dying, or at the very least having alarming strangulation marks all around his neck the next day when he was to begin filming?

Keep in mind - all those around him said he was in great spirits, happy to be alive, and eager to begin his next film. His family and director immediately ruled out any possibility of suicide because they knew his mental state just prior to his death - he was anything but depressed or suicidal.

Furthermore, other accounts have him flirting with a couple of lady boys in the hotel bar that night just prior to his death.

I'm sorry guys, but the official story just doesn't make sense in light of all these other facts. And it's shocking to me that so many supposedly intelligent people are so willing to buy some disgusting story and just forget about it when it's clearly possible and even likely that he was murdered instead, and his murder is now being covered up.

What this means is that anyone could come into your hotel room, rob you, torture you to death, and then tie your naked corpse up in a closet in embarrassing position and the whole world will now say "oh yeah, he must've been some freak like that David Carradine".

No - not neccasserily: folk into the practise get very good at going about it in such a way so as to avoid obvious marking. When things go wrong though, and they kill themselves accidently, you can be pretty sure the preceeding struggle is going to involve sufficient force to leave marks - just as murder would, granted.

But "murder" which involves sufficient physical force to leave marks on the body, tends to also result in a lot of other "things" also been left behind: like additional evidence and motive - and there is neither of either in this case to the best of my knowledge.

No one saw anyone go to Carradines' room - in fact staff say he went up to his room alone. No one saw anyone leave the hotel early in the morning (meaning around 3am give or take a couple hours - estimated time of David's death. )

So we have a couple of lady boys (or someone else), who had no motive to murder him, who went up to his room without been seen, who had the knowldege to kill him, strip the body, physically move it into the position it was found, who had the knowledge and exeperiance to make it look like one of rarest types of accidental death that it looked to be - and do all this, take nothing from the room, and depart un-noticed, leaving no evidence of 3rd party participation!

We are talking about professional murderers here aren't we - so professional that they were willing to committ this murder with no motive (nothing was missing from his room), so good at their business that they have outwitted the police and lead the forensic examanier complelty off track?

Sorry - but I see no evidence to support a murder allegation, let alone evidence of a murder or is it that there is evidence of all the above, but that all involved are participating to suppress the evidence.

Well well ... there you go rethaired, pretty conclusive isn't it: time to move on - actually, come to think of it you didn't really need forum members to tell you that, now did you.

Yes - most defienatly so: wild flora in that area is a significant contributor to honey yields, but if you know that area you will know that come the dry season each year all that lush green flora goes brown and paper dry - it really is quite a contrast, more so than many other parts of Thailand if only because of how lush and green it is in the rainy season - and then the bees are reduced to surviving of what they have collected over the rainy season.

Stripping out the honey at the end of the rainy season will split the colony at some point in the dry season - about half the colony will swarm and fly off to find somewhere else to live because of the food shortage.

Anyone shipped a vehicle from the States to Muang Thai?

I'm assuming it's exorbitant but maybe less than selling here and buying there.

Input appreciated.

Thanks

BULL

Expensive is an understatement - it is exhaubitant! - and the moment you go over the 3litre or 200hp mark (or thereabouts) it goes from exhaubitant to around 216% in duties & taxes on the CIF value of the car!

Yer - its that bad, but hang on a sec, thats only half the story: the paperwork run-around, with the unavoidable "tea-money" requests that will accompany paperwork processing, will have you tearing our hair out.

As Pattay_girl says - a large botle of Paracetamol (and debifralator) will be essential "equipment" should you wish to pursure the matter .... and one more thing: please do keep the forum updated!!

I have no doubt its the same place -but for what it worth I have heard seperately as well over the last 24hrs that the place has all but been abandoned by the Department of Ag and that other than for a small budget to maintain the place, most research is now taking place up in Chang Rai.

Oh well, it was try ........

Detail on the location? - I was trying to picture how good my memory was/was not thats all.

I think he done a brilliant job: its no secret that the "Dear leader" gets great kudos (if only in the DPKR - which is where he needs to show it after all) from high profile visits. Afterall, its not as if Western leaders are linning up to meet the guy - he's pretty much rejected, and presented with the oppurtunity of meeting a person of BC's prominence, with the international credit the guy has, the Dear Leader grabbed it with both hands.

In return Clinton no doubt got a commentry from the horses mouth that would probably not have been given to the "Great Satan" (there'll be a lot that was said between the 2 that wil not see the light of day/media for a long time to come).

Diplomats ofetn comment that it is so-called "side-line" meetings like these during which the real progress in problem solving is made.

We will of course have to wait and see - but one thing we can be sure of: there's going to be no shortage of speculation from social/economic and political commentators........

I trust the preceeding few contributions to the thread are not referance to what I posted (?) - it was to present some fact on the subject - to end speculative commentry and conspiracy.

What sort of people read (or comment on) subjects like this(?): like or not, fact is this thread has attracted close on a 1000 views since yesterday - which ranks it in the top single percentage of "viewed threads" for the time frame. Likewise, overall the Carradine subject has attracted close on 10 000 views (if viewing from all the sperate threads is added up) to date.

It's clearly a topical subject of interest - if sadly so in part because many of the replies & contributions are not far short of inuendo/rumour and speculation ....