Maizefarmer

I was told there is Bank called the Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Co-operative that lends to farmers. I think it's government sponsored and they have a website.

They were quoting loans for co-ops for 4.5%. Anyone know anything more about using this Bank or had any experiences with them. Of course, since only Thai's can own land, it's for loans to Thai's only.

You are correct, mailman - and that is exactly what BAAC is there for, but like all banks it still has to run on commercial principals - even if those principals are relaxed somewhat to take into consideration the nature of the loan and the purpose they are designed to serve, they still have to be commercialy vaible.

The low interest rates at the moment reflect market conditions. The success of unregulated money lending and the high interest rates that go with, reflect the high number of farmers who do not, or cannot satisfy the min requirements laid down by BAAC to borrow - and the lending risk they represent - and the greater the risk, the greater the interest rate charged.

Of course that doesn't justify extortionist interest rates, but thats the reality and nature of unregulated high risk lending beast.

While land has traditionaly been the form of security put up by borrows, most banks are now sitting on so much land asset they don;t know what to do with it. Collectively if the banks had to dump all the land they currently hold as a result of poor lending, the market impact would drop land prices even further - so they are inclined to hold onto it and wait for the market to rise again (which it will do in due course when the cycle swings round).

So what are some of the banks now doing? - allowing farmers to use forecasted crop/harvest as security - irrespective of who owns the land, or what the land title is - they've started futures trading, and its turned to be a rather successful way of lending. Doesn't matter if the yields are low, or damaged/lost - borrows have to take out loan/crop insurance, and guess who sells that to them? - I'll give you one guess.. Crop insurance is compulsury, so it's a win win situation - they make on that as well.

With the government garunteeing a min crop price the banks know exactly where they stand risk wise in terms of what/what not to lend farmers.

........ and in terms of quality, or actual gold content, "Thai gold" officialy should hover around 96,5%. This is 23karat - but be cautious: multiple test purchases over the last 10years or so have repeatedly found as much as 86,5% of gold jewelry described to buyers as been "Thai Gold" or "23karat", which has such should contain a min of 96,5% gold, has been found to contain as little as 90% - 92%, and in around 10% of cases, to contain as little as 85% - 89% gold!!

.......... do the words Caveat Emptor sound appropriate!?

They are inded (in debt) ........ and that is the problem with the small Thai farmer: he lives in a never ending circle of seasonal debt.

The problem is multi-facited, but eductaion, or lack of it to be exact, and size of farm (scales of economy) are common problems.

Micro financing? your golden rule has to be loan security - which means been able to "attach" land titleship to the loan. The problem here is that I would think you will find on closer investigation that much of the land that is farmed on in rural areas is Sor Por Gor titleship i.e. the farmer doesn;t own it - it is on perpetual lease to him from the goverment, and as such its use as security is not possible - and while some folk wil tell you there are many ways to skin a cat, believe me, if it's about manipulatig the SPG land titleship rules & regs for lending, the only one at the end of the day to get skinned will be you!

Privately owned land - yes, so long as there are no pre-exissting charges registered, you get given the original titleship doc's in your hand, and you go to the trouble of regsitering the "charge" down at the land reg office. To have any chance of this succeding, you will have to offer terms that beat commercial lending & Thai libor (i.e. interbank lending) rates - and as they currently stand, the banks are not lending much more than around 30% - 40% max of land asset value!! So, the market is pretty much stretched to its limit as it stands at the moment.

But all that said, loans by themselves I do not believe personally are the way out of the problem in the long run - if anything, it perpetuates the cycle , just at slightly better terms. What the Thai ag industry needs even if you can find a way to lend successfully (and successfully means : securely and at rates that make it attractive to borrow from you), there has to be a plan in place that changes the status quo of the farmers lot in life i.e. the loan should be to facilitate actions that lead to a better set of cirucmstances for the farmer. Here's an over-simplified example of what I mean:

10 farmers - who between them own say 200rai (whatever the crop/animal maybe). Individualy their net incomes are typical of small farms - but if they were to work collectively, the scale of economies could be changed quite significantly.

If they purchased their seasonal fertilser requirements collectively the dealer would get a bigger order and could offer a bigger discount, if they purchased their seed crop collectively - same as above, individualy they would never be able to afford to buy a tractor, but if could get an agreement between them, collectively they may well be able to share the expense of purchasing a tractor that they then make availible to each other to use.

The tractor example is actually quite a good one, because it will mean working together. It will mean crop cultivation and harvest planning so that their respective needs for land prep (i.e. ploughing) and harvesting do not conflict, it will mean entering into agreements amongst themselves to allow farmer A to plough over days 1-3, farmer B over days 4 -6, farmer C over days 7 -10 ect ect ect ......... so that when harvest time comes they don;t all need the tractor on the same day.

If irrigation is an issue, the tractor can also be used as a power source to drive a pump - so now instead of everyone having to buy there own pump and engine, the have one now that can be shared.

The point of all this is: if you want to get into micro-financing, it's my humble opinion that, not withstanding the market conditions, potential exists to do so successfully by identifying common needs amongst small groups of farmers in close geographical relation to each other. This allows them to work collectively as much of the crop type and requirments will be common to all them. It allows the risk they take in taking out finance to be split amongst all those in the "co-op" structure that is formed around the micro-financing you are willing to offer, and it exponentialy reeduces the risk you are exposed to from one person to a group of people - in short: it reduces the amount each member has to borrow, and it reduces your expose to default.

Its schemes like these I think have potential to change the circumstances for the better - the tractor example is just one of many types of collectively lending that could increase efficiency amongst a group of farmers - and better efficiency mean greater net profit at the end of the season. It could be towed behind grass cutter/forage chopper, it could be a pump or irrigation tubing, it could be a common milking parlor, bulk purchase of fertilser, animal feed, crop seed ......

What ever you micro-finance plan is about I think it should be against the background of understanding what the problems are, and not the typical type of lending that is so common in Thailand i.e. that lending which is handed out to farmers to carry them over from season to season. Nope – as I said earlier, this type of lending does little (if anything at all) to resolve problems in the long run.

Resolving problems for the long run means addressing the problems that farmers face. Granted, not all can be solved by way of micro-financing, at least not through the life of the loan – but some can, and some of those that can, can make a substantial difference in the long run. The example above is all about increasing efficiency through changing “economies of scale” by way of reducing cultivation costs.

I have touched here on a subject that can be discussed for hours, a subject that would require 100’s of pages to be written up and debated on, before even the basics were addressed, let alone covered. I think your gesture and sense of social conscience is very honourable – but, and it’s a fairly large but: for it to succeed for both you and the farmers who make use of any loan provided, it will need to be secure (for you) and it will need to contribute in some way to addressing the long terms problems farmers in Thailand encounter – not merely serve to carry them over form one season to another.

I wish you luck

Your family is starting a farming business – fair enough, but is that what you want to do as a career? You don’t say anything about that, your motivation or enthusiasm and I can assure about of thing: while a formal education is a very big plus point if you intend to run a farm on a commercial basis and make a financial success of it, farming is a 24/7/365 career, which will not work out unless one is totally committed to it. So education is one part of it, commitment is the other – and speaking for myself, I think it’s the more important part.

So what should you study? Well, its like running any business – if you are going to be desk bound in a management position, counting the money, developing startergy and all the sort of management side of stuff – yes, go for something “management orientated”, but if you are the hands on type, do agriculture engineering, anaimal husbandry, crop science … or any one of the other half dozen or so science orientated courses – and to that end, Thailands’ agriculture training (at both tech & uni level) is actually very good.

Khon Khaen Uni runs some top shelf ag courses – some of the best in South East Asia – both animal and crop science courses.

In Pak Chong there are 2 separate facilities (actually one is just outside PC): there is the crop research station in Pak Chong, and a little way out heading towards Bangkok, there is another crop science facility which is more an ag college than a research station. This latter facility is one of the biggest in the Thailand – located about 5kms past Chok Chai Dairy, on the same side of the main road. The area is called Klang Dong and has students at form all over Asia – if you go to www.thaiflyingclub.com/linkairportklangdong.html you will see pictures of lots of flat fields – that’s all part of the college grounds.

Where to study?

The great thing about studying in Thailand is that much of the training and education will be against the background of circumstances and conditions you will experience when farming here - so I think Thailand has to be a first choice (it will also be a dam_n side cheaper!)

Out of curiosity - you sound like a Thai ex-pat who has been living outside of Thailand - Correct?

Good luck

Yup - it will drop in due course, around 3% or so, once run in.

It's hard to evaluate fuel consumption without knowing just what type of work is been done - is it ploughing work, is it roto-tiller work on soil, or in wet paddy fields? - and tool set-up.

What gear is the machine been worked in, and at what rpm - Thai drivers love running tractors at full power rpm (with the M5000 thats around 2600 - 2700rpm) and quite often in a gear or so below what it should be working in - so the engine runs fast and the tractor runs slow[er]. They do to avoid stalling or getting stuck - it's a bad practise.

Watch the tractor at work - especially in a wet paddy field, but also on land, with a digital watch for 5 minutes - and keep a record of the total time working, distance covered, and gear/rpm the tractor is been used in - versus the total time of wheel slip - convert that to a percentage: that percentage will convert to anything between 5% - 15% of total fuel consumed wasted.

Tractors are best run at max torque rpm - which is almost always slower than max hp rpm - in the case of the M5000 I think its around 2200 - 2300rpm, and avoid high range setting on the transfer box

So thats about tractor usage - the other part of the equation which potentialy has an even bigger impact on fuel consumption, and if anything is probably even more of a "fault" in Thailand is tool setting e.g. setting the plough up incorrectly, or setting the tiller up at the incorrect "attack" angle - both will see fuel consumption go up as much as 50% - if not more.

I have witten up detailed notes in the past (more than once) regards both setting up ploughs and setting up tillers correctly, so that they do what they are designed to do, and do not result in excess fuel consumption - I'll look around and see if I can find those links.

Lastly - follow the daily maintenence schedule - religously, especially (but not only) the airfilter when used in dry/dusty conditions - air filters clog up at a rapid rate in Thailand and I know Thai tractor drivers are not too good at keeping them clean.

If you post a couple of pictures - straight on from the rear of the tractor - with the tool(s) fully raised on the 3point hitch, and with the tool(s) then let down to just just touch the ground - I'll give you a heads up regards what i think about its setting on the hitch, and how to correct the settings - if they need corerecting.

Most is called off...so go and figure!

Correct - BBC Wolrd Service (radio) is reporting this morning that His Majesty will not be attending any of the key events in recognition of his brithday this year, and will also not be giving his address to the nation. His Majesty remains in hospital - since been admitted in September.

I'm sure all on THai Visa will share with me in wishing His Majesty a speedy recovery and return good health.

Scubabuddha - you done the right thing, and as another member rightly stated, the chances of the other person having a gun, been a copper or the mafia coming to his aid are non greater in Thailand than they are anywhere else. It's another of the stereotypical myths about Thai's. Chances are the abuser is a "nothing" and a coward with low self esteem - as are most males who pick on woman.

Sadly though, despite the high incidence of domestic violence (and child abuse) in Thailand, like everywhere else most of it takes place behind closed doors and its only over the last few years or so that moves have started to address it - one of those been to get the police to take the matter and respond to it.

The problem the police have when it comes to prosecuting is much the same as the problem associated when prosecuting when an ex-ppat complains about something: couples make up and "forgive" each other - and don;t want to follow through with the legal process - so the cops go to all the paperwork effort wondering where the matter ultimately is going ... just like the ex-pat who files a complaint about his bsuiness partner, then gets tired of ahnging round waiting for the ever so slow wheels of Thai justice to grind into action, so pushes off home: and the cops sit with a pile of paperwork and time spend on something thats ultimately going no-where (why start the ball rolling in the first place they ask themeselves). That really is a large part of why the cops don;t like to get involved, but there are also the old fashioned social attitudes to such matters, and they will take more time to break down - but well done for standing up and taking notice: it would have been a very different story if you had driven off, only to come back half an hour later to find a group of people standing around a body lying at the side of the road (and that has happened before).

TT

Just what is your status in Thailand (pm me if you prefer)?

NH - is franchised out by Anglo Thai and I would reccomend you buy directly from Anglo Thai in Thailand, but to answer you question, I am a NH dealer (yes - I am, but truth be told I only sell parts and used machines - I haven't the time to get tied into the terms & conditions of been a NH new product retailer) - and I'm nowhere near Surin. I think your dealer in Surin is a company called Mathawee Tractors - ask around, and go check them out - they could be no more than a parts delear operating from a small shop, and with little facilties to offer maintencne and service backup.

Khun Seri the MD at AT in Bangkok shakes his head when ex-pats want finance - unlike Kubota, he really enforces all the fine print and takes no hostages: I think he's had problems in the past and as he's already the market leader by far, he's not concerned about the fraction of a single percent the ex-pat market could offer his brandname. NH products carry a premium of around 30% over and above Kubota, so god only knows what it would cost to buy a new NH!

.......... yup, had a feeling this was coming. Can I try and tempt you away from Kubota finance: it's not cheap in the long run - it will add up and cost you, and if and when you sell the tractor, even within the first year of ownership - you will loose a large amount of money through the depreciation. I know 3 ex-pats who have been 100% happy with the Kubota tractor, but far from happy with what it ultimately cost to buy it on Kubota Finance. One of those 3 ex-pats was trying to sell his Kubota financed tractor on this forum about a year back.

Some points:

1) are you proposing to to take out the finance in your name, or your partners name - very important because this will determine ownership of the tractor - although strictly speaking the tractor remains the property of Kubota untill it's paid off, there is nothing to stop you from selling it if you wish, except that Kubota will then want to be paid the reamining balance immediatly - and the sale price will not cover the remaining balance. This is a rhetorical question - no need to answer

2) over what period of time are you proposing to take out the finance - 12 - 24 or 36 months (or longer)?

3) remember as I said in an earlier note - you are tied into the Kubota servicing plan - and it is EXPENSIVE, you'll get a shocker when you get the first service bill - they will load it up.

If in your name - you will need the deposit, which will vary dpeending on the time period over which the finance is taking out over. You will need you house doc's, bank statement, and visa (type) - anything but a tourist visa will normally do. The alternative is to take the finance out in your partners name - then her id is needed, house odc's again, and bank statement/details - but chances are understanding that it wil be you in the background paying the deposit and monthly instalments (although not on Kf contract), they wil not process a credit check on her to see if she can afford it. The larger the deposit you can pay, so much the better - soooo much the better!!

And thats about it really - and it's what makes the K/finance so "attractive" - they make it easy. They will try and sel lyou extended maintenence plan(s) and all sorts of add-ons like ploughs and other tractor extra's like option diff speed, higher rate hydrualic pump, and there are some other "performance" extras - stay away, these will add hugely to the finance bill. Buy the plough, the trailer, the front end blade (they salesman will be reccomending the front end blade very enthusiastically!) - but it all privately!

Ask to see the full terms of the contract - before committing yourself: if in Thai scan it in and send to my message box - I haven't seen one now for a few years. I'll read through it and give you a heads up on any fine print point I think you should be aware of.

Thanks to all. My biggest concern is a Harmon Kardon Citation 16 power amp - circa 1975. 150-W per channel. Can't seem to get any info from the manufacturer - probably the techs there were not even born when this amp was made. Can a person change transformers - as Jdietz pointed out they may overheat ?

Your issue here seedy - and taking into consideration what you said in your 2nd posting about overheating - has nothing to do with frequency - it's about the power reserve, and if you are saying that there is that much avalible in reserve (i.e. around 150watts), my guess is, is you whip off the cover of the Amp you will find exactly what I reffered to in my earlier comments i.e. some very big capacitors, and quite possibly as much as 4 to 6 of them - they'll look like huge big aluminim tubes usualy blue or black in colour.

Thats's where all this reserve power is kept till it is needed, at which point it is dumped very fast into the final stage of amplification. Been an old HK amp it's probebrly all Class A, with a bit of Class B - running in Class A mode most of the time, then when that 150watt or so is needed for the brief moment of a second or so, all that power reserve in the cap's gets dumped into the circuit and it works as a Class B. I'm guessing - check the size of the heatsinks on the amp - they'll nice and big with lots of big tin trannies poking out of them if it's primary Class A with Class B hanging in the background to help out when needed.

Heat - Class A is the most inefficient conversion form in amp circuits - all amp circuits, not just audio amp circuits, anything that requires power reserves - in terms of thermal management A runs far hotter than class B, or C or D ect ect ...... thats the nature of the beast, but engineers love using class A in audio amps because it is so fast/quick to respond to transients and as such offers the best sound repro' quality (though trannie developements since the 70's has seen class B and C devises now starting to catch up in both terms of speed and quality - and not suffering the large loss in heat output that comes with A).

Anyway, enough about the amp theory lecture, the point is your ac frequency is not going to be an issue for you here - all that heat here is a function of the dc side of the circuits in your amp - mainly the final stage transisitors and the speaker load they are driving: 4 Ohms and more and things will be fine - just try driving a pair of old Quad electrostatic speakers - they can drop down to less than 1 ohm when certain types of music is played through them - then you'll see just how hot your amp gets and what its capable of!!!.

Nope, ac input frequency is a non-issue in this type of application - you'll be just fine - garuntee you enjoy the music!

I have quite a few USA manufactured products in the house - to include both AC and DC "white goods" and entertainment hardware - and have never experienced any running/reliability/thermal or heating problems associated with running them here in Thailand @ 50Hz (although I should add that all my domestic AC is 50Hz gennie generated - not AC mains), versus at/on their design spec @60Hertz - and this includes the washing machine, which is specifically spec'd to run @ 60hz and not as is common with many white goods nowadays "50Hz - 60hz".

Manufacturers centralise much of their "white goods" production in plants that cover worldwide geographical regions - the goods come off the same production line and they do not as rule substitute components for 50Hz versus 60Hz depending on retail destination - its far cheaper to use components that run equaly comfortably at both ends of the internationaly used AC freq's (which are to the best of my knowledge either 50Hz or 60Hz - irrespective of voltage).

Yes, comments regards over heating of certain ac motor designs are quite true, in practise though the incidence of such problems are really quite small with modern "white goods", mainly because of what I said above, but also because of poor regulation of national frequency outputs. Measure the variation in the Thai ac system - I have on a couple occassions. I remember one occassion quite well - I was helping a Thai farmer address a problem with a milking system which used a rather large vacuum pump - the motor kept burning out - and the reason we ultimately discovered? huge flucuation in ac frequency, I mean really big - as much as 43Hz on the low side and as much as 67 on the high side (the standard in Thailand is 50). So we got the official electricity man out - who told us that actaully in Thailand if you measure flucuation over a period of say a week or so, it is not uncommon to find in rural areas inparticular, regional circuits running for extended periods as low as 42Hz - 43Hz, or as high as 58Hz - 60Hz! It's not unusual, and manufacturers aware of this issue and factor for it as a tolerence in the design spec of "white goods".

Against the background of the OP's question, which was in respect of "hardware" that is primarily dc driven - it is even les of an issue: it takes a far greater flucuation in AC frequency then the figures above to start upsetting things like tellies, hi-fi's, cd's players, amps dvd's ... and whatever else one can think of. As you will undoubtably know, they all have ac/dc circuits, rectification and regulation, and by and large ample cap reserve's - although I do often wonder how a lot of the cheap Asain made consumer type audio/Tv equeipment lasts as long as it does, bearing in mind the tolerences in many of the circuit board components used, but that on the other hand illustrates even more so the durability and tolerence in ac/dc electrical goods - which is primarily what the OP was asking about. Run some basic electrical calc's - off the top of my head, I would think you'd need something like 35Hz - 40Hz over an extended period of time before the transformer in your average TV or Hi-Fi started playing up to the point where the rectification/bridge circuits that are in just about every domestic box that produces a "noise" or a "picture", were unable to keep the regulators going properly or the cap's smoothing out correctly ........

Yes - the potential exsists, in practise though - [very] unusual/unlikely with domestic white goods - and even more unusual with domestic ac/dc type products ..... I just don't belive its the problem many of the replies to the OP's question presented it as been (against the background the OP was reffering to).

Baan Kiki

Thanx for sharing the detail with us - my take on the situation: while we can wonder about all the issues that have been raised regards the status of the bike, and young lady e.g. was it at the time officialy a stolen bike, what was the young lady doing in Phuket, has the bike been examined i.e. were the lights on the bike working, was the tyre tread up to spec, were the brakes working as they should, was she sober (okay - she's dead sadly, but where did she work - in a bar or some similar place - have her buddies been interviewed about that evening?), did she have moped license ..... there are so many things that can be considered, but at the end of the day I still think a major point in your defense is going to come down to whether or not the car was parked legally or illegaly?

To the best of my knowledge a solid white line - normally about 1,3m - 1,5m from the side of the road, has nothing to do with parking reg's, or parking restrictions: it defines the area that is reserved for 2 wheeled vechiles e.g. mopeds, bicycles ect ...... Were you aware of this point and the relivance of the solid white line in this context?

Does this mean you were parked illegaly?

I simply don't know, and I really think your brief needs to get this point established - one way or the other - as well as weather or not it amounts to illegal parking. I have a gut feeling that a car parked here is not neccessarily parked illegaly, and if you were not parked illegaly, I really cant see where the case is going to go ultimately.

Thanx for the detail.

Before it becomes DC it must pass through a built in transformer. That transformer on US items is likely to be rated for 60Hz power only (as construction is cheaper). In such a case it is likely to overheat when run on 50Hz even if the voltage has been reduced to its rated input. Old audio equipment often did have well over rated transformers so do not believe it will be an issue in this case (if not running full power) - but for most things sold at low price the transformer will overheat.

oh what complete twaddle....................... some absolute crap has been written on this thread.

None whatsoever - all ac current that goes into domestic entertainment hardware gets rectified into dc, then smoothed through a bunch of cap's, and then regulated - so the ac input component ibecomes a non-issue - unless in the unlikely event you're running some entertainment hardware that was designed to work on a plane - where all the ac circuits are designed to run at/off 420Hertz!!!!!!

So try plugging 110V equipment into a 220V socket and see what happens!!

If your reply is in relation to my comment regards "ac input becomes a non-issue" - that is in respect of the frequency the ac input becomes a non-issue (i.e. 50Hz versus 60Hz) - for the reasons I gave. The OP's question was about frequency - not current or voltage(?)

I've often wondered myself ........ you are aware that they are based on the single cylinder "iron buffalo" type engines?

Personally, would opt for a used small Yanmar, Iseki, Kubota or similar, only because to me they're a known quantity and after 20years experience I understand what they are capable of - and over 50rai or so, I think a 4WD 14hp - 24hp Iseki, Yanmar .. or whatever is going to be able to offer a lot more for a lot less cost, but that said - to answer your questions: yes, the machine you have in mind has plentyplenty torque (you'll be suprized just how much luggin power it has - loaaaaadsss!), will quite adequetly be able to handle the tasks you have in mind - withotu any problems at all.

Can I ask what this model is going for?

Aaaah, anthoma, you have invested in some used fire hoses (10 meter lengths - black or red rubber linings inside, or no rubber lining inside?) ... yes, they 're great - yes, that should be fine over 60meters lying on the ground - and if you have sufficient lengths consider running 2 hosepipe lines i.e. take the water out of the pump with 45degree split, not a 90% t-piece, and then split the 45degrees to run down 2 lengths of hose.

You can buy blue plastic pvc fittings from most hadrware stores to make up this arrangement for I wouldn;t have thought much more than a few hundred Baht - and if you post up a picture on ther forum of exactly what the ouput connection on the pump looks like and what size it is in inches (or mm/cm's) I will be able to tel you exatcly what fittings to get and how to make this "split" up.

Whats important here is to keep the pump suction/input as close to water level as you can - and I mean real real close - as real close to the water level as you can - meaning: the water level that you are pumping from/out of - suction affects pump output flow substantialy more so than does pump head (head - meaning the height above the pump output to which the water is been pumped to).

In short: reduce suction at the expense of head - always your first choice and a much more efficient way to setup a pump to pump, than to increase the suction tas as to reduce the heigth above the pump to which the water is going to be pumped to. Another way of putting all this: looked at from a vertical perspective - the closer the pump is to the source it is taking the water from, as opposed to the destination to which the pump i pumping the water to, the more water you will pump for any given time period.

One more tip: where the fire hose outputs its water into the rice paddy - place a large piece of 4 x 8 plyboard weighted down by some stones/ash blocks, or pile up some stones on the paddy floor - either method will be just fine - this will protect the pond bottom from getting badly erroded by the water as it flows out of the firehose - and believ me, a 1000 litres a minute following from a 3" - 4" hose, its going to errode a nice big trench into the base of the rice paddy over a few hours.

Hope this goes well - and please do take some pictures of the pump setup/frame will you - I'm keen to see just what your man puts together for you.

To the OP:

In cases of debt, this is classified under civil law and not criminal law.

Your only option is to take the guy to the civil court which under Thailand’s antiquated legal system can take several years and be a very costly experience, legal fees in which maybe you cant get back.

If the guy does not have the available funds or assets to pay back the loan, than all the court can do is make an order for the guy to pay any amount he can afford in instalments or write the debt off all together. In over words, you can’t squeeze blood out of a stone.

Be careful about naming and shaming anyone in Thailand. There are strict defamatory laws here and you could be in big trouble under the criminal Acts.

Very valid points - thsi si a civil matter in upper case letters - and it has the potential to draw out through the courts over a long long time. To pursue the matter in the courts is to hope the debtor doesn't turn up at a hearing and challenge the creditors claims - things can actually move quite fast if the debtor doesn't turn up to challenge anything in a hearing - but otherwise, there will be a lot of yawning taking place ....................

TV (Thaivisa) has its fair share of these stories ..... and they all to often kick off thick on detail about what has happend or occured, but very thin on detail regards the legal situation - against the background of Thai law.

So-and-so was bailed - fair enough, but what were they bailed for, and/or what are the bail terms, or so-and-so was put into the cells for an amount of time, then charged - but little or not detail is shared regards the actual charge e.g. the Charge pertained to what section of the Thai legal code?

Or, in the case of RTA's (road traffic accident), the thread will kick off with some comments about the fact that the deceased's relative(s) are banging on the door with a demand for x amount of money - fair enough, but what is the demand based on (from a Thai legal persepective) - is the equivilant of reckless driving, Section x,y,z sub section blah blah balh been alleged ... and just who is making the allegation? Is it the police taking the action, or are the relatives taking the action, or over and above any police action, are relatives pursuing with their own personal claim - is it a civil or criminal claim ..... and a whole bunch of other relivant points need to be understood, without which no-one can really offer much in the way of advice or help.

What this all to often illustrates is exactly where the problem lies when ex-pats run into legal problems: a poor understanding of the actual situation one is in from a Thai law/legal point of view - and without that understanding as it applies to whatever is been claimed or alleged aginst you, one cannot hope, firstly to get much in the way of anything usefull from folk (however good intentioned comments maybe), but secondly and probably more importantly, one cannot hope to be able to defend themselves with any degree of success.

If you find yourself in one of these situations, other than keeping your mouth shut and saying the absolute min - top of your list of things to do is to get INDEPENDENT legal advise, and to make sure that you understand top to bottom what is been alleged against you, and how it ties into the Thai legal code. The quicker you get an understanding of this, the less vunerable you will feel, the better placed you will be to defend yourself, and the better placed folk will be to offer advise, as folk can now understand exactly what is been alleged.

Let me understand this correctly - you hold 49%, and the company is structered so that the other 51% shareholding is held by a single person (a Thai national?)?

Actually two other thai national. On only has 3% and the other has 48% total of 51%

Givenall - thanks for the clarification - it's important, but the point aside for the timebeing, note that shares are considered assets - personal assets when in the name of a juristic person/individual ect ect ..... or company assets, if the shareholder has the shares registered in the name of another company he may own or be a sharehoder of.

With that in mind (i.e. the defineation of shares as an "assets"), what kicks into play upon the individuals death is their Last Will & Testament ... and I don;t think all that needs explaing, however - there are 2 Issues which you are going to have to look into and take professional legal advice on - I am not a lawyer (I'm a dairy farmer!!), and I can only comment against the background of a very similar experience a few years back, and secondly, against the background of my understanding of the subject - so read through my comments, take them for what you think them worth - in principal I believe them fairly accurately reflect the situation [you will be in], and to cover the points that you should give consideration to - but do follw them up with professional legal advice, which I am not qualified to give.

ISSUE(s) 1

1) with respect to your specifica question - yes, you guys can draw a document/agreement up. Keep in mind though that it has nothing to do with the company per say - it would be a private agreement between you and the deceased.

2) for it to be legally binding it will have to satisfy all the rules & regs that pertain to distrabution of assets upon death ... and I do not know what those rules and regs are, you are best advised to take advice form an estate type lawyer for that.

3) heres the important part: if you guys do draw up any agreement, ensure that:

- it is up to date.

- that any wish laid out in the deceaseds Last Will & Testament will have precedence over any seperately entered into agreement - so ensure that if their is a seperate doc drawn up, what it contains with respect to any agreement between you guys, is consistant with what is laid out in the LW&T.

There remains one outstanding consideration here Givenall: what if there is no final will & testament, and there is no executor?

In the case where assets do not amount to much such matters are usualy deal't with informaly, and little problem arises, but if assets (in this case the shares and there value) are substantial, and you wish to secure your interest, backed up by the agreement that you guys entered into - then, if I was you in such a situation, I would make haste (with my appointed legal council in tow) down to the Law Courts, and ask the "beak" (it's an old English colloquil term for a judge) to appoint an estate executor - and I'd make sure that the agreement you guys signed up to, is top of the pile of documents he is given , and which he will take into consideration when assessing and distributing the assets.

What if there is both a LW&T as well as seperate agreement, and what if the LW&T says "you get nothing", but the agreement says "all yours"? - and the answer is, I simply don't know - except to say, in ending these few notes off.

1) shares are assets and will be treated as such (i.e. part of the personal estate) in any LW&T

2) LW&T's tend to carry precedence over any [other] agreement - it would almost certainly be the claimants duty/obligation to demonstrate to the court otherwsie if they wanted any agreement to carry precendence over a LW&T.

ISSUE 2(s)

Rules & Regs pertaining to foreign national shareholding in a Thai reg'd company - you are not by chance an American citizen? If you are I suggest you study the shareholding regs as they relate to The Treaty of Amity - under which rules & reg's, subject to conditions &requirments, a USA citizen can be a majoirty shareholder in a Thai company - but don't take my word for it i.e. while in principal that is correct, it really is a specialist area and you will best off taking specialist advise.

...... so, how can a sharholder leave you shares if those shares take you over the permitted 49%/51% shareholding limitations? Good question, and while I don;t know the exact answer, and why you willneed to take professional legal advise, in principal I know it can be done - and done with the agrement of the courts. I don;t have experience of this sort of situation with respect to shares, but I have this experience with respect to a house and the land on which it stood. In short I lent a sum of money to a 3rd party, and secured that money against their house and land. To ensure that such an agreement was allowed, bearing in mind that as a foreign national there are all sorts of rules & regs related to foreigners and owning land (in short - we can;t) my legal man went to court to see if he could get the court to agree to such an arrangement. As was expected, the judge said - yes, no prob's, an allowed "a charge" to be registered against the house & land, on the district property register

In due course, as was expected the debtor defaulted and I sent my lawyer back to court to get a pocession order - which he got. The pocession order laid out just one stipulation: that I was permitted to sell the "asset" at market value, but that any sum of money received through the sale, which was over and above the amount in the original laon, plus interest, had to be returned to the debtor. That was fine by me, and in due ourse the house was sold - I got my money (plus interest) back, and the debtor got some cash.

How does this tie in with your situation?

In principal it's much the same - I would think yes, you could be legally left the shares, even if this temporily took you over the max 49% shareholding limit, but the court would want you to take whatever action was appropriate to bring things back in line with the law e.g. sell the shares, restructure the company and/or it's shareholding, or whatever else may have to be done ... and woul dgive you reasonable time to do so.

Do I know this for a fact? No - I don;t, but againstthe background of my experience with the house & land, to me the principal is much the same and I am sure that faced with the scenario of been left shares that took your shareholding over and above the 49% max limit, the courts would grant you the oppurtunity to restructure or sell, or do whatever was required i.e. I doubt very much you would be penalised for breaing some or other rule/reg related to shareholding, orhave the shares confiscated.

Thats my take on the situation - but whatever you do, do get professional legal advice

None whatsoever - all ac current that goes into domestic entertainment hardware gets rectified into dc, then smoothed through a bunch of cap's, and then regulated - so the ac input component ibecomes a non-issue - unless in the unlikely event you're running some entertainment hardware that was designed to work on a plane - where all the ac circuits are designed to run at/off 420Hertz!!!!!!

Let me understand this correctly - you hold 49%, and the company is structered so that the other 51% shareholding is held by a single person (a Thai national?)?

Contact a loan shark. Offer him 50% of any monies collected.

Loansharking - even in Thailand - normally has a paper contract to back it up: the OP doesn't have that - yes, he has evidence that he gave x amount to his friend, but not that it was as a loan, and for a lone shark to be willing to take the debt on (and they do buy debts in Thailand - and they'll pay no more than around 30% of the loan value), they will want to see a loan contract and the terms of repayment.

The Op needs to have this debt acknowledged as a loan - he needs to get the debitor to agree to repayment terms - on paper, which with a bit of luck he agree to whether or not he intends to pay it, and hopefully he'll sign on the dotted line before realising that the repayment terms will amount to an acknowldegement of the debt.

At the moment the OP only has evidence that he gave so-and-so an amount of money - not that it was a loan, or that there are any terms attached to it - at least thats how I understand the situation(?).

Okay - what was he arrested and put in the cells for?

He will be charged - with what? Just what is the allegation - what has he been charged with, or what will he be charged with?

Bailed for Baht 200K - for what, why did he have to pay bail?

Was this car parked illegally - was there a solid orange/yellow line, or a No Parking @ 3:30am in the morning, or some similar sign?

I am trying to work out what he could have done wrong, and other than for been illegaly parked (which I am sure he would know - even if only after the incident, and would have shared with you by now).

I can't see what he has done wrong....... is any of the above applicable?

Thats exactly what we are doing now. My GF found a guy at a local workshop that is a "spesialist" on this she said. He knows exactly what to do according to here. He's building everything into a frame that we then connect to the tractor. The only thing i'm worried about is the size of the weel connected to the shaft that goes into the pto. I told my GF to explain to him about the 960 rpm on the pto against the 4000 rpm on the pump. The looks on the guy when my GF explained this to him did not make me confedent, but maybe he was bothered by beeing explained thing that he already know. Well we have to see what we get.

Yes - agreed: a 3point hitch mounted frame is your best option - but are you sure about that pump speed - 4000rpm(??), and I hope you are not running a pump that requires x hp from a tractor engine that produces x hp(?). Thats okay if you are running in direct drive (i.e. no gears or pulleys), but it won't work if you are having to increase the pto shaft speed through pulleys to bring it up to the pump rpm speed - the torque required is not going to be avaliable from the tractors engine to turn the pump efficiently.

Remember - if you multiply your pto shaft speed 4 x, you are going to have significant impact on the torque required e.g. if the pump requires x amount of hp to turn at 4000rpm (and I'd check that speed again to make sure), and the tractor engine speed has to be multiplied 4 x's through a 1:4 ratio primary/secondary pulley arrangement, you'd better check a number of things:

1) engine torque output i.e. you are almost certainly going to have to run the tractor not at max engine hp rpm, but at max engine torque rpm - which is usualy around 25% less than max hp rpm on small/medium sized tractors.

2) your tractor hp output is going to have to be around double the hp requirement of the pump.

3) you are going to almost certainly have to use 2, and better still 3 belts - and ensure the belt profile is the correct profile for the pulley groove profile - else you are going to suffer from slip (10% slip will equal 10% more fuel consumed - in simple terms), excessive heat build up and quick belt breakdown also results when the belt/pulley profiles don't match.

Belt & pulley arrangements can be very efficient drive transfer and multiplication set-ups, but if not set up PROPERLY they become very in-efficient.

Comments

- PTO shaft power is normally around 10% - 15% less than the tractor engine rated output power.

- if you have a 540 rpm option on the pto - use this speed (much better torque output characteristics) and set the primary/secondary pulley ratio for 1:8

- check the pump rpm/volume/pressure graph - there may be some benefit to running this pump at one or other end of the graph to get the best efficiency.

- chance of a picture of the pump and some info regards its rpm/flow/pressure outputs (graph)?

- you are worried about the size of the pulley? - the pulley on the pto side, whatever size it is, should have a circumference of around 4 times longer than the circumference of the pulley on the pump side (for a 1 turn to 4 turn ratio) - take a piece of string and wrap it around the wheel/pulley groove, and use this to compare the 2 - will give you a fairly accurate indication of the relationship between the 2.

I been to the workshop again and checked the pump he is using. Its the same pump that they use in these Honda gasolinpumps.

There are two spesifications on the pump. One for pumping capasity 900 l/m and one for 1100 l/m.

For 900 l/m it says rpm 3600, hp 5 and max head 30m.

For 1100 l/m it says rpm 4000, hp 6 and max head 38m.

On the rpm-meter on the tractor there is a red mark on 2500 rpm and under its written in red: pto 540 so now i know how much speed i have to have on the tractor to get 540 rpm on the pto. The tractor has 24 hp.

His not started to make anything yet because he had to order a shaft from Ubon city so i dont know excactly what his plan is but i just have to hope that he knows what his doing.

Okay - thats all in order, understood - last couple points: these Honda pumps are fine - so long as the NPSH is close to zero i.e. so long as the pump is not having to lift the water any more than a meter or so to get it into the pump - if the pump is any higher than that above the water, the output rate plummets like a stone.

Lastly, keep in mind that those flow figures are not for max head - at max head, again like having to lift the water to the pump, the output rate will fall quite dramatically - so keep the output nice and big and as low as possible and things should be fine.

macanello - what were the repayment terms?

Well, you need now to get a repayment plan re-instated and on paper - thats your starting point as it will also amount to an acknowledgement of the debt on paper. Now wait for him to default, follow through with a formal demand (registered post) and indication that legal process will follow if he doesn't ful fill his side of the deal - and carry on like this for a few months .... now you have an undisputable situation evidencing both the loan and failure to repay by the agreed terms.

Do a bit of background digging into his fiancnial affairs - what he has and where its kept so you know what is worth chasing and where it's kept. take the evidence to a lawyer and ask him to ask the court to "attach" the assets - if you have all the evidence as described above good chance the judge will give you a court ordered final demand - failure to follow through with that will upset the judge - "attaching" his assets with a court order will now be a formality.

It all really rests on wheather the guy has anything or not - so get a plan worked out, keep your cool, follow the rules, and act on the evidence avalible - don't throw good money at bad: you don't want to be paying a lawyer for endless letter writing and time spent - have a plan and stick to it.