checkered flag

3 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

As a "tourist" that has lived here for 15 years with my wife and son ,in our own home ,if next year i go back to the UK for a holiday ,wonder if i will be expected to get insurance on coming back?

Maybe, if on a 3+3+3 visa.

15 years on a tourist visa is a long time.

41 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

My fortune teller said today in the late evening. 

 

   

Probably on Sept 28th in front of a judge.

2 minutes ago, Daithi85 said:

What's your problem?it seems to be upsetting you at the thought of people staying here.luckily your opinion means nothing.

Getting a tourist visa only admits one for a specific time, and not an indefinite period. Those that want to stay need an immigrant visa. This is how it's done everywhere not just Thailand. Although some feel entitled (it's my right) they really are not.

13 minutes ago, ehgnyc said:

Do you include expats who live and work in other Asian countries and can't return as "legitimate tourists" or "hangers on"? Maybe your "reports" don't include the fact that borders are closed.

Flights out have been available for months. It's the flights in that are restricted. Those who live and work in other Asian countries need to contact the respective embassies advice. It's been 6 months already so plans should have been made long ago. 

All or almost all legitimate tourist seem to be gone. Only the "hangers on" for other reasons are left. I base this on reports from Pattaya, Phuket, and Chiang Mai that have very low hotel occupancy rates and tourist areas are "ghost towns". Those that were continuing to stay by renewing in neighboring countries are out of luck  and only a few options exist. Waiting for the last minute is a problem, IMO and risks am overstay. 

12 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Well it does rather look as if this scheme ( the whole quality tourists scheme) is being created to serve those "of influence" who have interests in insurance, upmarket resort and quarantine provision. Maybe they think that they have identified a "cash cow" in those 1200 potential visitors a month, and intend to milk it.

 

It will have no effect whatsoever in recreating any sort of tourist industry from the debris that are left. But then, they are not interested in that.

It seems that every few months the insurance thing comes up and creates panic. Maybe it's the SOP for insurance companies to drive up business. I'm not against insurance but suspect there business plan to get new clients.

Sorry, but that's not what I've seen at immigration. I've seen several people denied for legitimate reasons because they aren't following the rules. One had his money in his home country bank and tried to argue with the IO that it was permitted. The TI office was very patient and polite but wouldn't give in. I was impressed with her demeanor. Others didn't have there paper work in order and the IO patiently told the person what to do. 

I've noticed the difficulty some have when apply for marriage visas but these need to be passed along to HQs for approval, so the offices needs to assure nothing is missing.

Those wanting to bend the rules might get away with it at some offices, with a brown envelop but I haven't seen it.

12 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Not much of interest then

Best that you stay in Pattaya then. Right now there are a lot of available bar stools.

On 9/12/2020 at 2:03 PM, ourmanflint said:

Thankfully there aren’t any bars in Phrae so pesky farangs can’t survive there very long. 
better go to Chiang Mai instead. 

Great, so the rift raft stays in Pattaya and Hua Hin.

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes - why I provided evidence it has nothing to do with our 'work arounds', at all. 
 

They did change how non-formal school ED visas were processed.  Yet, as with other extension-types, "language tests," etc are skipped for "extra fees" to immigration.  The outcome was to increase those "extra fees," paid by the student, for honest applicants who really are attending - which was the goal. 

The solution is easy - ban "fixers" - yet that is never done - and each "crackdown" we have seen only increases fixer-envelope revenues. 

The reports here on TVF have indicated that ED visas have refused, but I haven't heard of extra fees required. Applications of those attending regular academic programs at Thai universities seem OK and in most cases handled through the university.  

Why not open the bottle and drink the contents? Then wash it good and mail the empty bottle. I'm sure Switzerland has some equivalent to replace contents. 

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Immigration had a meeting with some embassy officials, and that resulted in some embassies (you correctly listed) not providing the letters any more.  But others still do stat-declarations (France, etc), and those holding those passports are still required to get those letters.

Note that those lying on a stat-dec could face serious charges both Thailand and their home country, and I am not aware of any reports of anyone being charged with this.

 

The good thing about the current USA letters for 30-day extensions -  there is no lying involved.  It makes no false claims.
 

It was previously 3 months before.  Now, it is not just 800K 3 mo after, but 400K year-round.

 

Yet to spite the feigned concern about schemes, it is seems to only be a concern that some were Not Paying Immigration Through Agents, as that business never stopped; all the "seasoning" checks never and still do not apply to agent-envelope-money applications - including those distributed from the main office.
 

It's not about what we do.  Whenever they want more agent-money, they change the rules to force more people to agents - honest folks who could qualify under the previous rules.  The dishonest people have used agents throughout - and received VIP treatment for doing so.
 

Few foreigners "tricked" immigration regarding their applications - that would be dangerous.  The "abuses" were commited in direct-coordinaton with Immigration - via their agent-parners, including school-personnel acting as agents. 

Those using Tourist Visas frequently weren't abusing anything - they were simply "non-agent-envelope" visitors, whom Immigration resented for maintaining legal-stays an honest, way via the MFA.  Immigration have never tried to 'clean up' things - just increase their pocket-money by making things more 'dirty'.

I was just trying to explain what caused the present situation, that is a direct response to those seeking work around solutions. If people tried to direct their efforts straight on and meet the financial requirements, I can see little problems. If they can not they have few options, because the borders are still closed. Maybe consider a agent, but I have no experience.

BTW, I consider getting new visas yearly outside Thailand as a legal workaround but it was becoming increasingly difficult to do (from previous reports).

Some people on Ed visa studying in degree programs at Thai universities were always OK. However, multiple Ed visas for Muay Thai or stand alone language schools are suspect. That's why MFA staff sometimes tests applicant on their Thai language skills.

Sorry but I'm getting tired going back and forth on this issue. Best of luck with your problem and hope you are prepared for the consequences.

12 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Why should the IO want to see your 12-month bank-statement?  Such statement is not required when applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of marriage, as that only requires 2 months of seasoning of the 400K on your personal thai bank-account when applying.  So the 3-month bank statement that any Bank branch can provide you will suffice, in combination with the 'new' bank-book showing the 400K being maintained for at least 2 months at the moment of application.

The actual 400K must not be touched until the visa is finally approved in Bangkok which takes about another month. Then , as I understand, the money is available. The 2 month before and 3 months after is for retirement visas.

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

What previous embassy letters, and what do those have to do with "2 months before and 3 months after"?

The previous embassy letter to verify income seem to have been widely used by those lacking resources. This ended when TI said the embassies needed income verification, instead of a statutory statement sworn in front of the embassy official. That left those of us from the US, UK and Australia with a choice to show verified foreign transfers monthly of 40 or 65K to meet the obligation or to show either 400K or 800K in a Thai bank account. At the time many schemes to bypass this obligation so TI instigated requirement for 2 months before and 3 months after for retirement visa.

My comments were based on whenever TI tried to make a clear fair system, some people keep looking for ways around it. As a result the rules keep getting tighter.

If you remember back a few months people were getting turned down for "staying too long in Thailand" on a tourist visa and/or being denied repeat ED visas.

I think this is the start of cleaning up past abuses.

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

The only relevant thing is what decision the Cabinet makes , rumours count for nothing

I think you are continuing  to pick the bones clean. Their doesn't seem to be any meat left. Time to give it up.

6 minutes ago, chippendale said:

What happens once those 60 days are up?

 

Presuming there is no further amnesty, what do we do after 60 days?

If your visa extension expires you need to meet the requirements for a new visa (takes time) or leave. 

14 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

As you Said Australia has been limiting returns. Most bookings are cancelled.Unlike USA Australian Embassy are playing it hard on giving out letters. Thailand is only 6 hours flight from Australia- less to Phuket. In March Australian Government recommended that people stay where they are.

IMO most tourist visit for 2-4 weeks and return home. Most probably have jobs and can't stay forever. Since it's been 6 months of extensions, I don't see why they haven't returned by now and should be quite low.

Frankly, I think most desire to stay long term and don't qualify and can't do border runs to extend. If the Australian embassy were to give them a letter stating that returning to Australia at this time was not possible, then TI might cut them some slack. I would assume this would include an agreement to leave as soon as return flights could be booked.

One would think citizens returning from Thailand with low Covid 19 would be welcomed first back home.

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When borders are open again, there is also the option of doing a border-run and either

- returning Visa exempt and re-apply for a new 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement;

- applying at the Thai consulate in Savannakhet for a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, and apply for the 1-year extension of stay from that one.  Note that the ME Non Imm O retirement Visa would skip the need for parking/transferring funds on a Thai bank-account, with NO need to visit IO during the 15 months it can provide you.

>> The above is actually often suggested by IO to those whose application is refused because not fully meeting the financial requirements (e.g. a blooper they made and slipping below the 800K/400K treshold). 

OK I get it that you're a fan of border runs and not keeping money in a Thai bank, but what do you do now that the borders are closed. Are you going home and wait for things to change?

Since some Thai consulates have stricter rules, I would be willing to guess those with relaxed rules will be told to tighten up their practices. If this happens then the practice of yearly border runs for new visa might be over. They've already done this with Non O Ed visas. 

7 hours ago, scotsman said:

I am sure the OP has fixed this problem by changing to marriage extension, but If he had used the visa Agent to fix it, then he would have been stuck with a visa Agent the next time if the borders are not open by then.  My reasoning for this is that you get a retirement extension only from using the visa Agent you don't have to go back in 3 or 4 months to prove you have the 400k left or anything like that. But come the next year's extension and you try to do it by yourself they will also refuse you as you can't show the money was in your bank for the one you got from the visa Agent the year before, that will go for the Marriage one as well.  As they will want to see the money did not dip below the 800k and you had 400k at that time. 

So you would have to always use a Visa Agent until the Borders are open again to go and get a new Category O from outside Thailand to start again.    

Correct me if my thinking is wrong.

regards 

Scotsman 

The starting over with a new Non O from outside the country was a way to avoid the financial requirement for Thai bank deposits for those who couldn't or for whatever reason refused to but the required deposits in a Thai bank.

For those with limited resources the Non O marriage would seem better because, I don't believe, the money needs to stay in the account after the visa is approved (by HQs). That said Non O marriage is more complex and approval needs to be sent to HQs for final approval and usually requires a second trip to the immigration office after a month or so. 

I'm having a little trouble understanding why so many Australians are stuck. Thailand has had about zero new Australian tourist coming in for almost 6 months and many must have already left on their own. The TI offices have repeatedly told those on tourist visa to convert to long term visa or move on. I would assume the numbers have been dwindling down over time and only the hard core who want to stay long term are left. Since border runs are not possible these people have few options. 

Maybe this is a unique Australian problem, because I think they closed their borders (or limited numbers) to returning Australians. If I were an Australian I'd immediately register at the Australian Embassy for a return flight and get a letter saying I did so. I would assume that TI would give you some time to get your flight, if done immediately. If one waits until Sept 26 TI probably wont be as understanding. 

I've had some friends go to Switzerland and the US recently on commercial flights without issue. The US embassy has said for months they can assist with travel back plans if necessary and have encourage citizens to act sooner than later. 

5 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

I'm sure most don't have any issues at all like yourself. I do believe an agent makes the process more smooth for a few dollars more,  even if one has all his documents in order and required funds.   

Visa agent are a legitimate way to go for those who can't understand the rules and the agent can take the time to make sure everything is properly done. The fact that the OP stated that he and the GF took copious notes tells a lot. For me the process has always been very simple and I have no need to make a lot of notes. Sounds to me the OP isn't well organized or is making a story to gain sympathy/attention. 

Maybe not having access to the 800K deposit for 5-6 months,the OP was having money problems. Anyway I fell sorry for the guy and hope he can solve his problem.

This is also a good heads up to others on Non O retirement visa who use the 800K in the bank for financials. 

5 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Any particular rat poison you'd recommend? Yes, the ongoing war on drugs is an epic fail! 

Rat poison is commonly used as a blood thinner (dose dependent).

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't recall any reports of the 800k baht and then 400k baht being enforced until a person went to apply for their new extension this year.

My friend was asked this year, at his 90 day report. He doesn't touch his 800K so was fine. It's the first time they asked. 

I prove 65K+ monthly transfers and wasn't asked, but why would they. 

35 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

There are thousands here that have made bad choices. When I'm gone my wife will have more from me than she could ever have here in a million years. If she decides to stay for the journey. If not,she will go back to a lifestyle of being used and abused ,neglected and taken for granted, just like she had before.  My daughter will have the love of God, animals, respect for elders, love of good food, how to exercise and eat right to stay healthy, and know what to look for in a man because she sees me treat my wife well. And money has nothing to do with that.

I don't know about thousands, but definitely some. Moving to Thailand to retire cheaply is not a good move and their is no safety net. Hope you make it OK but your way is not for me. 

44 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

no need to blame the guy

 

farangs do not need to be a member of TV when living in thailand

 

immigration should have made him sign a paper that 800k should remain for 3 months

Sorry, it's called personal responsibility. I agree that there is no need to read or be amember of TVF, but putting the responsibility of the TI officer is wrong. 

He probably got away with it last year and got burned this year.