Hi from France
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Posts posted by Hi from France
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2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:
Actually, don't bother.
Riddle
How do you call a country why has 17 deaths / day and "demands" that we ship the vaccines we produce (while we have 3000+ deaths every day in Europe).
Given that you take our vaccines while giving nothing in return, I'm tempted to use the word "parasite".
Anyway "demand" what you want, but in the meantime I think you'd better rely on you ex-colony, India or your "special relationship" the USA they have the 30 million doses you need stored and unused.
And of course use your own production which you never cared to share anyway.
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1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:
Do I have to repeat this again? It would require a change in the law for the UK to either block or restrict exports from the UK.
sure: you know about the Internal Market Bill, don't you ?
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8 hours ago, sandyf said:
Britain on Monday demanded the European Union
intriguing :
- India cancelled the UK's order and the UK does not "demand" anything from them
- the US is sitting on a 30 millions doses stockpile of AZ vaccines, that is not even approved for use in the USA and it's just allright for the UK
- the EU has delivered 21 million doses to the UK .... and the UK "demands"
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a study of the real impact of covid = analyzing excess mortality data around the world
just one figure called excess mortality march 2020 until feb 2021 (behind a paywall)
for those few who can read french, the the article is very interesting (pm me if you want access)
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40 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:
FT articles are free to read without a paywall if they’re posted on Facebook.
event better than that an open source web browser extension
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29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:
Is the UK Culture Secretary good enough for you? https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/moderna-vaccine-arrive-uk-imminently-20272449
A few doses?
17 million in total to be exact.
what I read here is
QuoteThe UK has ordered 17 million jabs of the Moderna vaccine.
17 million is the total order, you have to look at the delivery schedule and as we learned, at the fact that someone might sign a contract after you but get priority
for what it's worth, for the ModeRNA, we have ordered
- initial purchase of 80 million doses
- plus an option to request up to a further 80 million doses
- On 15 December , the Commission decided to purchase 80 million additional doses .
- On 17 February 300 million doses (150+150)
as I remember total EU orders are 2 billions+
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4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:
Why don't you direct your energy towards your own country's failure to get its vaccine programme working earlier? I believe they did much better yesterday though - which is great news.
not a failure, but instead of being naive and producing for the world, the EU should have done the same as the UK and the USA and demand to be served first and export zero until we are protected. The 40 millions doses we exported (half of them to the UK) are causing problems
I find that sad, but here we are. Being the only ones to act cooperatively now is just being idiots.
now I heard that the EU will soon produce more vaccines than the USA and we'll be the first producers in the world (need to source that)
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4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:
Why must you be so negative? Of course its not a game changer, it would be hard to improve on the success the UK has had already.
I'm positive, just not too much ????
also vaccine production will pick up very quickly in the coming weeks and months (and the very fact we have vaccines is remarkable)
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7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:
Could you point us to a good source?
If I remember well modeRNA represent "few" doses compared to the other vaccines
This is what I 'm reading now
QuoteModerna doses unlikely to be 'game-changer' to UK rollout, JCVI members says
The Moderna vaccine’s arrival is not expected to be a “game-changer” to the UK’s rollout, a member of joint committee on vaccination and immunisation (JCVI) has said, explaining that the quantities are expected to be smaller than those delivered by AstraZeneca and Pfizer. -
4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:
Great news for UK, the Moderna vaccine manufactured in the US will start being administered in the UK to the under 50's by the end of April. A real boost for for the UK vaccination plan.
Could you point us to a good source?
If I remember well modeRNA represent "few" doses compared to the other vaccines
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52 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:
No, I don't get your point.
well OK that's it for me then
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4 hours ago, Victornoir said:
Bof, the old tales of the old on distant times.
On the same note, it should be unbearable to have dominated the world and to find yourself a second-class divided country with a nationalist leader reduced to petty contractual shenanigans to try to exist.keep in mind this is the extremist fringe of the Brits, but also that they are bound to stay in power in the years to come.
so this situation which is exacerbated by the vaccine dispute, is likely continue to spiral down in the future.
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1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:
Since when did vaccines become part of the withdrawal agreement?
what? I'm just reminding you Boris Johnson doesn't give a damn for the treaties he signed.
got the point?
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4 hours ago, polpott said:
Its a purely hypothetical question.
this is how EU leaders think, and this is largely how it works with the UK: if it goes the way Boris wants, it's fine "better contract let's respect it", you sent vaccines from the EU plants to us.
If it was the opposite, the UK would keep the vaccines produced in Britain. Even when Boris signs a treaty he does not respect it, how do you expect him to have the UK sending 21 millions vaccines to the EU in the midst of a pandemic ?
seriously
What most in the the EU think is that contracts and treaties do not matter to Boris Johnson. There is a double standard by which we'd loose anyway.
now event if it's "purely hypothetical" it just tells us that we are the fall guy in this farce
QuoteLove it. the EU reliant on the UK. How the mighty have fallen!
Reliant : I'm not so sure of this, actually. But that was discussed with these Lipids issue. I think the supply chain situation is complex, overlapping because of the (former) single market including the UK.
but yes you just love it obviously, and that's one more problem - some would say Russia is a more reliable partner than the UK there.
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1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:Personally I'd feel very uncomfortable
Fine but the question you two are avoiding is what would be the measures taken by the national - populist government of the UK.
As I said, It's a mere thought experiment.
I'm going to suggest whatever contract would have been signed between the EU and AstraZeneca, Johnson would not let the UK vaccine production go to the EU first. He would never send 21 millions vaccines to the EU getting zero in return.
He already disrespect twice a treaty with his own signature on it, do you really claim he would
- let a private contract that he did not even sign...
- ... send lifesaving vaccines to the the EU first?
(same thing in the future: the only way for Europeans to be safe is no longer to be reliant on the UK).
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8 minutes ago, polpott said:
I wasn't a brexiteer, I was a remainer.
Oh sorry I forgot
8 minutes ago, polpott said:As I said a contract is a contract, I would be peed if the situation was reversed. However, I wouldn't be peed at the EU or AZ I'd be peed at my country for making a lousy contract and leaving it to the last minute.
Sure a contract is a contract, and your word is you bond...
But I 'm not asking about you: we know Johnson and Frost, we have seen them in action these last months.
You claim that right now if there was a private contract between the European Union and AstraZeneca, they would make sure that the UK send its own vaccine production to the EU (and get zero in exchange?).
21 million doses
Seriously?
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7 minutes ago, polpott said:
No we need to honour the contracts already made. In contract law, the contract AZ made with the UK trumps the contract that the EU made with AZ.
again : I assume that as a Brexiteer you have monitored the situation these last months and you have basic knowledge of the Brexiteers motivations and Brexiteer doctrine.
Just put yourself in our shoes : lf the situation was reversed, and a private contract between AZ and the EU said the UK plants must send all their vaccines to the EU
...do you believe Frost and Johnson would be OK to deliver 21 million vaccines to the EU before Britain was served?
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3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:
The UK is a 'free country'
and If you want we can have a thought experiment
If the situation was reversed, do you believe Frost and Johnson would deliver 21 million vaccine to the EU first? Or would they keep the UK's vaccine production for themselves?
Can you look me in the eyes ???? and tell me that Boris Johnson would deliver 21 million vaccine to the EU in this situation ?
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2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:
At the moment it would require a change in the law to restrict vaccine exports - that is not impossible but Boris Johnson has already said he doesn't want to see any controls/restrictions on vaccines.
Johnson wants to see this contract respected because it allowed him to receive 21 million vaccines from the EU giving zero in return and he wants things to stay that way.
If you look at the Withdrawal Agreement treaty we signed, when Johnson does not like "this or that" , the signature of the UK suddenly becomes void.
What we need to set up there is a balanced, reciprocal relationship.
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Good récap of
https://www.politico.eu/article/new-global-vaccine-fight-follows-old-diplomatic-playbook/
- all foreign affairs are “transactional
- Autocratic states are doing extremely well
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2 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:
The "best effort term" is worldwide used, but it's meaning seems to be unknown to the EU amateurs.
There's no question the EU team which was rookie, had furthermore been given the wrong brief...
They insisted on health guarantees in case they were problems, and on bulk buying and fair price (we pay up to 1/3 of the UK price apparently).
The UK was simply ready to pay any price to be served first, and of course the UK serves 64 millions while the EU serves 447 millions. So while production is scarce, we need 7 doses when the UK needs one.
I do not think anyone disagree there?
The point of discussion now is not that we failed on private contracts, but sovereignty and reciprocity as we exported 21 millions vaccines to the UK and got none.
Maybe it is a contract but as you know the UK does not even care for the treaties they sign why should we?
Moreover AstraZeneca explains the UK has a priority contract, but the EU didn't sign on that in the first place. So we are not breaking a contract, just demanding they deliver our contract now using legal means, article 122 namely.
Granted: the UK is in the supply chain so we are mutually dependant, but no one in 2016 anticipated that a national-populist government would come to power and that our relationship would become so excecrable.
In the future, we have stop relying on the UK for critical goods, but this will take years to achieve that. Right now we just do not have the time.
But seriously do you think for one second that if the situation was reversed, Frost and Johnson would hesitate one second to requisition the UK's vaccine production?
Can you look me in the eyes ???? and tell me that Boris Johnson would deliver the EU first?
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2 hours ago, ourmanflint said:
Not to be picky but that was not the case when this started, Pfizer orders were missing 30% (10 million orders) and moderna were down 20%
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-pfizer-exclusiv-idUSKBN2AH1E3
Yeah I have no source handy, but I read lately that Pfizer was now delivering according to its promises and like 10% more.
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anyone can check that ?
Quote“The UK is proud to have vaccinated many people with the first dose, but they will have a problem with the second dose,” Le Drian said. “And we are fully vaccinated with two doses, not one. Today we have the same number of fully vaccinated people in France and the United Kingdom.
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17 hours ago, ourmanflint said:
What I don't understand is why the EU are apparently singling out AZ, as all vaccine manufacturers have been beset by delays and false dawns.
Pfizer is delivering according to contract, even a bit faster it seems. And the German/US vaccine is very very officient (like the ModeRNA)
Astrazeneca signed first a contrat with the EU, then a priority contract with the UK (note the UK did help a lot a early stages).
Month later, it turned out that Astrazeneca could deliver 100 of the UK order but only 30% of the EU order.
overall Astrazeneca has both
- considerable credibility problems
- huge delivery problems.
Some will tell you it's because of the "evil EU", some other simply note that they botched their tests which slowed dows approval by health agencies and the product is not as efficient than Pfizer and with a series of adverse reactions.
Right now the USA still doesn't want to use it on its own population, accused AZ of data manipulation ... while sitting on a huge stockpile.
Now of course Brexiteers will criticize the EU and compliment the USA, go figure...
you can read :
make me sorry especially the part where
Quotemorale at AstraZeneca is plummeting and that it had never received due credit for its decision to take no profit
I hope AZ can improve their vaccine and make it active against the South African Variant
personally, if an AstraZeneca shot is available, I take it. Given the situation we cannot afford to be choosy. And risks seem to be an infinitesimal fraction of benefits
All elders in my family had the Pfizer shot already, we have one friend who had the AZ.
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EU blames AstraZeneca as vaccine battle with UK deepens
in World News
Posted · Edited by Hi from France
I'd say the contribution is interesting (it'd be better not to have a tabloid for a main source, though), but should be transferred to the "brexit/city of London" thread, preferably before the moderation wipes it out.