Hi from France

3 minutes ago, candide said:

as the article say

3 minutes ago, candide said:

Former EU member Britain has so far administered many more vaccines than EU countries in proportion to the population.

 

"The Brits are insisting that the Halix plant in the Netherlands must deliver the drug substance produced there to them. That doesn't work," the official told Reuters.

yeah "That doesn't work", dear national-populist politicians????

and with your own British vaccine production, please now supply the people in the world that really need it

in Thailand even ????

instead of keeping it for yourselves like you have been doing.

"Global Britain" uh

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Why shouldn't  the entire population of the UK

Do you really need an explanation for prioritization? Herd immunity? % of kids dying from covid (close to zero) compared the % of 75+ dying 

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

ttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/21/eu-export-ban-would-delay-uk-covid-vaccine-drive-by-two-months

Read that 

Quote

About 10m vaccine doses have been exported from plants in EU member states to the UK, largely by Pfizer/BioNTech. The UK is waiting on around 30m more Pfizer doses and 30m from Johnson & Johnson – although only some of those had been expected to be delivered by the end of the summer.

The UK government was until the last fortnight on course to beat its target of delivering a first vaccine dose to every adult in the UK by the end of July by over six weeks, according to Airfinity.

The UK doesn't need to vaccine 100% of its population, they should be giving all those doses to save lives elsewhere. 

This is petty national-populist selfishness.

I feel we are completely legitimate. The EU has already started to share its production from the beginning and should continue to do so. But we are done with sending vaccines to the UK, in this situation, this is just stupid.

Doses bound for the UK should go where they are needed.

In the meantime the UK has its own AZ production and they will selfishly keep it anyway even though they would be more useful elsewhere. 

34 minutes ago, candide said:

AZ is currently running a large scale trial meeting all statistical requirements in order to make sure it satisfies the FDA, so we will soon have more reliable data.

So vinny41 will acknowledge previous data was not reliable then? 

.. and the FDA is right to demand scientific evidence before injecting US citizens with AstraZeneca? 

48 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It would seem that Ireland and 13 other European countries will have less money for recovery if France gets its way

I suggest you transfer this info to the appropriate thread for discussion with interested parties 

I do not mean the AstraZeneca was completely untested with 65+, I mean it might have been OK for British standards but as you know Scientists have raised questions about the representative value of AstraZeneca’s trial design.

So in Europe they were doubts. As a whole the testing of AstraZeneca has been riddled with multiple problems: bad testing design, inefficient against the south African variant.. Hence his bad reputation. 

Remember AstraZeneca is an Anglo-Swedish firm? Another proof of this mess: As of today Sweden, Norway, Denmark are still holding the AstraZeneca jabs. 

Now for your other post, I  100% approve our ambassador Catherine Colonna, she is doing a fine job as a diplomat there, well done.

I wish the UK ambassador in Brussels would do such fine diplomatic moves

... wait there is no UK ambassador, only a "head of the UK Mission to the European Union" 

4 hours ago, david555 said:

it is still in your PM box ????

Thanks for telling me there, I have no proper pm notifications so I just caught back on several messages. 

And to answer one of them publicly, I'm very much pro-vaccine

So even if now the AZ does not have the green light for 55- in France pending investigation of several issues, I'd have it anyway. 

Of course I'd prefer the German Pfizer or the US modeRNA, but I'm not top of the waiting list (and as of last week 66% of the French public didn't trust the AZ, albeit the prime minister's AZ jab yesterday will help). 

RNA vaccines are new technology, but quite easy to scale up at the manufacturing stage. In June our production output will be 6 times February's. 

We have a difficult few weeks ahead of us, but the end of the tunnel is in sight ????

4 hours ago, candide said:

There are rational motives behind this situation:

- vaccination centres have been priorily used  for people aged  75 year  and +, who have been vaccinated only with the Pfizer jab. Now this capacity is starting to be available for other categories

- AZ is also being distributed by Practitioners and Pharmacies, and it has been a bit long to organise

- due to reduced and somehow uncertain supply, it is necessary to store jabs for the second dose (unlike UK, it's 3 weeks after the first one) for both vaccine brands. From what I understand, UK is starting to be confronted with the same problem as there is a large number of people who will need their second jab.

Yes 

The AZ was untested with 65+ but the Brits injected it nonetheless starting with their 65+

So the blood clot problems were not discovered before the European and the UK started injecting their younger citizens

In the EU, the oldest got the Pfizer, (I'm just back from the 1st jab of my aunt btw, and it was a Pfizer) 

13 minutes ago, david555 said:

i know you don't like them ???? , but they just bring what they catch up

I know you know I know...

still just try to read reputable source first. The guardian is incredibly good and free (though it dedicates less paper to the Sussexes :)

For example we complain about the AZ vaccine being inferior to the German/Pfizer vaccine, but we forget some Chinese vaccines is probably ... much worst

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/20/chinas-first-local-covid-case-since-february-had-been-vaccinated-state-media

23 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1412737/eu-news-covid-vaccine-export-ban-uk-boris-johnson-von-der-leyen-merkel-macron-ont

EU starts all-out vaccine war: Merkel and Macron back UK export ban - major supplies alert
BORIS JOHNSON and the EU appear to be heading for an all out vaccine war, as European leaders are on the brink of imposing a punitive export ban on the UK.

Careful with tabloids it's just a collage of pictures and quotes, not real information. 

It's just the best way for selling paper. 

Wether its the reality of the economic consequences of Brexit or the idea that the UK being out of the EU changed something to vaccine procurement..

tabloids are masquerading the situation 

Quote

The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph barely cover the EU trade fiascos, says Dr Andrew Jones, part of an Exeter University team monitoring Brexit media stories since the referendum. Currently, Jones says, those papers’ main Brexit story is Britain’s triumph over the EU on vaccines. That trope always omits the fact the UK could have purchased the same volume while in the EU, but it has become the Brexiters’ clinching case.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/16/brexit-deal-bad-evidence-trade

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

just for you I will amended my claim.

Fine but why "just for me?" why not just rescind it and admit it was just false? 

We also need to study the "supply chain retaliation claim" but this is going to be more complicated 

First a recap of the supply chain 

I also listened to a very interesting podcast but it's in French. https://pca.st/b6qe9bak

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EU member states have received 62.2 million vaccines under the joint procurement scheme run by Brussels and administered 77 per cent of those – about 48 million shots. About 14.8 million AstraZeneca vaccines have been delivered to EU countries, with less than half, 7.3 million, being used.

Fine 

Now you are supposed to back your claim

Quote

they appear to be the only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling vaccines, 

Please use your own claim and back it up without skipping the question. 

Thanks

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

Good long read. 

The EU had zero competence on buying vaccine a few months ago, so on the plus side, we have made considerable progress. On the minus side there is much to say... 

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

It would appear its the EU countries that are selfish, they appear to be the only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling vaccines, how many million of doses are being stored unused in each EU country.

Any proof of this? 

The biggest stockpile is AZ in the USA. They still have not approved the vaccine yet while they have tens of millions of unused doses of the vaccine in storage. Some have been sent to Mexico and Canada lately. 

They have so many that they could end up expiring?

Now about your claim, about "only countries in the world that are currently stockpiling" please back it up now

Here is my source Feel free to share yours with me 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/543661-fda-official-us-astrazeneca-stockpile-not-in-danger-of-expiring

As for stockpiles in the EU countries, AFAIK, they are due to the precautions and the 72h delay last week in most EU countries.

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I have no issue with the EU using article 122 if they so wish but it wouldn't solve the issue of how they can produced vaccines if vaccine components from other countries are blocked in a retaliation move.

This is what we need to analyse. 

But the (partial) infos I have on the supply chain is that the biggest key ARN provider is in Switzerland. So although disrupting could be a loose-loose like Brexit, we are probably in the same situation, when "we loose 1, you loose 6". 

Now this is not just the question of the % of population protected. The first injection goes to the ones who are most vulnerable and I think the UK is close to 100% there. 

And we are not in the usual petty UK gestures like giving an inferior position to our ambassador. There are people dying here. 

So although I understand that there might be a private (probably secret btw?) contract saying one UK life is worth more than 10 EU lives, we must do everything in our power to prevent more deaths. 

That probably includes asking big pharma to stop exporting doses to the UK at the moment, regardless of contracts they have.

That does not mean that we should not export to countries that need help more than we do, just to the UK at the moment, considering their current selfish behaviour. 

Ironically, the UK (more than Russia, the USA or China) is our most important threat there. 

I have to find it again, but I read a paper mentioning liberal democracies should work together. This is not the present situation. 

53 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its simple the UK Goverment added an addittional clause into the UK AZ agreement that states the first 100 million doses goes to the UK market

As explained, I'm not sure we care about private contract clauses saying "UK first and you can go to hell"

All we see is we have delivered millions vaccines to the UK while getting none from the UK

• we can also take note that 40% of the population is vaccinated in the UK versus 13% in Europe
• we should finally realize the UK can make a lot of promises, only not respect them afterward

in the future, the best way to go is to reduce any critical dependence of our Union to the UK, but that will take time

in the present we can act now and legally, by using article 122

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As far as I am aware the UK hasn't threaten to block anything, Its only the EU that is talking about banning exports to certain countries

Indeed, the least we can do is realise we are being taken for a ride! 

I'd say there are two types of contracts and treaties : those we put the UK national-populist government at an advantage and those who do not. Some are respected, some are not. 

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

But the UK does export to the EU the essential ingredients that allows the EU to produce their own vaccines

I'm not sure about that, you've seen the post saying otherwise on this thread. 

Now the problem is we have no reliable exhaustive source on the supply chains for each vaccine. 

What I suppose is: the supply chain situation is just complicated we are still in a single market pre-brexit configuration even though 1/there is no single market anymore and 2/relations have turned more and more execrable. 

So we have mutual dependency, the EU realize it's being taken for a ride, the UK threatens to block whatever they can in the supply chain instead of reciprocating.. we are more into asymmetrical warfare than cooperation. 

I just read that Mark's and Spencer stores in France are still quite empty, even though we are in the third month after the supposed EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement. 

Now of course there is a worldwide supply chain as we see with India missing US sourcing. 

But all in all, its a simple calculation.

• India delivers to UK : 5 millions vaccines dises
• EU delivers to UK : 9 million doses
• UK delivers to the EU/India : nothing

Brexiteer or not, this is simple maths. 

We are simply being taken for a ride, this is quite often the case when dealing with the UK

15 hours ago, vinny41 said:

UK put a UK first clause in their contract with AZ to prevent EU bully boys 

Quote

It Crystal clear there

Quote

Its Clear 

Do not forget to give reliable sources: this post looks like pure speculation 

To me what is interesting is to see how "vaccine diplomacy" has emerged. 

What we have here is another occurrence of how Europe - UK relations turn more and more ugly 

Quote

Boris Johnson went out of his way this week not to blame Delhi for the later-than-expected arrival of 5m doses of the Oxford vaccine from India, which is contributing to a significant dip in supplies in April.

While 

Quote

Johnson’s remarks were in stark contrast to the robust response from the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, when the president of the European commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, threatened to slap an export ban on vaccines due to leave the EU.

Raab and Johnson show two faces of UK's vaccine diplomacy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/19/raab-and-johnson-show-two-faces-of-uks-vaccine-diplomacy

The UK prefers the India authoritarian regime to Europe, the only thing holding them back is 

Quote

He won’t want to fall out too badly with the EU either, however. Weighing on the prime minister’s mind will be the fact that he is due to host leaders of the G7 nations in Cornwall in June (travel restrictions allowing), and will not want to do so against the backdrop of a vicious diplomatic spat.

In a few hours 

Quote

Jean Castex annonce qu’il se fera vacciner en public par une dose d’AstraZeneca

https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/france/jean-castex-annonce-qu-il-se-fera-vacciner-en-public-par-une-dose-d-astrazeneca-7191263

Translation  

Jean Castex announces that he will be vaccinated in public with a dose of AstraZeneca

5 hours ago, cocoonclub said:

The EU doesn’t have a vaccination program. It only has a joint procurement of vaccines and that it certainly didn’t mess up. 

Good point : the procurement is not the same as the rollout and the jabs.

The EU does not take part in the jabs, which is why there are AZ stocks waiting. 

Quote

On Tuesday, Brussels criticised member states for having "unused reservoirs" of vaccines. EU member states have received 62.2 million vaccines under the bloc's joint procurement and administered 77 percent of those, which is about 48 million shots. About 14.8 million of those are AstraZeneca vaccines, with less than half – 7.3 million – being used.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/17/eu-may-trigger-little-used-emergency-article-122-clause-force/

All EU countries have to put all these stocks to good use and fast it is a prerequisite before activating article 122, we should definitely not behave like the US: keeping AZ stocks while not using it.