jbhh

My wife told me that according to the TV news they have now asked Interpol to arrest him. Are there any news/confirmation of this in English?

(I must admit I did not go through the past 15 pages....)

Some clips I took today.

(52 seconds into the clip the military storms Victory monument).

Yes, I know it's shaky...

Thanks for that!

Must have been scary hearing them shoot and being in the middle of it.

UN refers to Thai police as the biggest organized criminal gang on the planet.

Where was this?

One-click away on google......

http://ratchasima.net/2008/03/30/thailands...als-are-police/

http://www.uncjin.org/Documents/Convention...vention_eng.pdf

Shhhh dont tell my Thai Police friends I told you

Rgds,

Andy McNabb

The UN never said the Thai Police is the biggest organized criminal gang on the planet. It is a conclusion drawn from what the UN considers organized crime.

Conclusion: the yellows can stay in Government House 3 months and stayed in 2 airports 8 days when State of Emergency was announced. The reds cannot protest on the street.

It's called oppression of the poor.

We've seen what happened to the governments around the world that tried it in the past.

They are not "opressing the poor" they are finally starting to do their job, infact the same job you were ranting and raving about them not doing back when it was the voilent PAD....

Now that its the voilent REDS and the army is starting to do its job you are on here posting its wrong, its oppression.... give it a break, they are acting voilent and the army/police need to step in and stop them.

I agree! But, does this mean yellow criminal leaders will still be walking free? If army is doing their jobs, then, it seems they only do when they want to.

In a State of Emergency the Army's duty is to get the situation under control, not to go around and arrest people for something that happened in the past. I agree that the leaders of the PAD should be prosecuted just like the Leaders from the reds have to be, however that is the duty of the law enforcement agencies and not the army.

I am not sure if someone posted this site already, but it is the TV station I am watching via cable.

Very good source of news about the current situation in ENGLISH LANGUAGE

Live video on the site (right click on video -> zoom -> full screen)

www.tannetwork.tv

I have posted it numerous times, but only a few of us seem to be really interested. I am glad you have found it. From what I can see, it is the best source of info in English.

Why are you guys promoting this website over and over again? Is it not the same as ASTV, which is backed by yellows?

Give me a link to a website or TV station that reports in ENGLISH and backs the red shirts, and I will be happy to watch it as well.

This is like watching a comedy of errors.

Total and utter nonsense. A government totally out of control. A country out of control.

Now they are fighting in Bangkok, when thats finished are the government going to fight to win back all the northern citiies now in the throws of red protests.

The only solution is for them to stop being so greedy and wanting the power in their hands, and dissolve the House and give the power back to the people. I mean, its not as if they have paid millions of dollars to various people to get into power is it ? or is it ?

lol, another classic... you and rainman must be sitting int he same internet cafe... (bookmarked)

Another update from tannetwork.tv in about 1/2 hour.

Brief update given: Reds have set fire to a bus near the Pullman hotel. Tourists are warned to stay in hotels near Rangnam and Pratunam areas. Reds throwing molotov cocktails can be seen on the video.

The military is gaining control of the tourist areas slowly, and then will head on to Victory Monument to gain control. Following this, they will liberate Government House and arrest the 5 Red leaders who are at Government House.

This from OMR who this morning at 6am said that the military were now clubbing reds all over Bangkok.

When in fact they were having a tussle at Din Daeng only.

OMR - you really do lie do you not ?

uhm, I must have missed him saying it... why are you not replying to the post where he said it, the quote you put in doesn't say anything about clubbing all over Bangkok, unless you are reading it somewhere between the lines...

you really don't reply to a quote do you?

I am not sure if someone posted this site already, but it is the TV station I am watching via cable.

Very good source of news about the current situation in ENGLISH LANGUAGE

Live video on the site (right click on video -> zoom -> full screen)

www.tannetwork.tv

Conclusion: the yellows can stay in Government House 3 months and stayed in 2 airports 8 days when State of Emergency was announced. The reds cannot protest on the street.

It's called oppression of the poor.

We've seen what happened to the governments around the world that tried it in the past.

lol, you comments are just classic... I got to bookmark some.

unbelievable that from all places possible, they have to make problems in places like apartment buildings (the gas truck) or hospitals... this is just sad, and shows how little they care about anyone but themselves (or not, as they might have supporters in those places).

"This is about sharing not just the power but the money and the prestige as well," says Mr Thitinan. "The elites are facing a choice: lose some now and keep a lot or keep it all now and risk losing the lot."

That sums up everything. And it seems like they've placed their bets on keeping it all.

And it seems like they've placed their bets on taking it all.

"The deposed prime minister said he will return to lead his supporters, if a coup takes place."

That sounds a lot like a Dictator to me...

From The Nation:

Jatuporn calls red-shirts to descend on Bangkok to bring down Govt

.

.

.

Jatuporn urged red-shirted protesters to travel to Bangkok or seize provincial halls.

The Nation

Time for the army to crush the red shirts now, they are no longer able to claim to be pro-democractic, they are just a mob intent on cause murder and mayhem now. The true colours of the reds are comming out now.

Agreed... the government has more lead to instigate violence now. The Reds are angry because they insist the blues attacked them in Pattaya and the soldiers shot them today. They have seen the one-sided news coverage and their words have become more hostile. Government will cut the UDD media feed in 30 minutes according to their TV station. It's amazing this mob (yes, it's a mob) has been out for so long peacefully while receiving biased media attention and has only now come to issuing verbal threats.

BTW... check out Thai TV. They are ignoring the whole thing!

My guess is that they "ignore" it, so that the rest of the miss leaded Thais don't get the idea of going to Bangkok.

They are not for democracy, they are the manifestation of the anger/frustration of those that got kicked out of the government for braking the law. The P.P.P. knew of the penalty of vote-buying and still did so (in key positions of the party), then they tried to change the constitution after being in power to keep them from being dissolves, unfortunately the PAD ruined that plan, then they tried to buy the members of the democrats to elect the PM they wanted but failed, and now they use the red shirts to try and get back what they have rightful lost. It's a real pity that so many foreigners here are unable to figure this out IMHO.

From The Nation:

Jatuporn calls red-shirts to descend on Bangkok to bring down Govt

Jatuporn Promphan Sunday urged red-shirted protesters to rise up against the government and attack Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban as first sight.

He said there was no longer rule of law so the red-shirted people would attack the government.

He claimed that he had been arrested by the military to the Naresuan base in Prachuap Khiri Khan but red-shirted supporters in the base secured his release and sent him to the rally site at the Government House again.

Jatuporn urged red-shirted protesters to travel to Bangkok or seize provincial halls.

The Nation

Reds believe that the air force has been issued red shirts and will attempt to infiltrate the BKK protests and foment violence so that the crackdown can begin while saving the government face.

ok, is it just me or are these two (news/rumors/reports) just totally contradictory

The current government is illegitimate.

The PAD LOST the last election.

Do they think they can ride rough shod over democracy and expect the voices of the people to be silent?

There will be blood............................

Sorry but you need to get your facts straight.

PAD is not a party, it has never been in an ellection and is not (part of) the government.

The current government is 100% legitimate. The current prime minister has been democratically elected by the Parliament.

The current government (as it is now) is not the one that was elected, as the P.P.P and it's coalition partners were ALL dissolved BY LAW because of vote buying

i have said in another forum that aphisit was weak, etc. but upon reading this thread i guess i now think that aphisit and the democrats are actually clever enough to have thaksin fall in their trap...

and so, i was discussing with my wife why the summit was organised in pattaya which is just 1.5 hours away from bangkok and that it is easily to mobilised the protesters, why not kho samui?

the thread above is the answer...

They could have just continued having them in Hua Hin, it's not far away from Bangkok and I very much doubt the reds would have dared to pull that stunt here. We just had an Asean summit a couple of weeks ago, there is still signs up from it... the only "demonstration" that took place here was a pretty big crowed of people wearing the kings and queens shirts with big banner saying something along the lines of "Red Shirts stay away from the Asean Summit in Hua Hin", first I thought they were yellow shirts, until I noticed all the blue and pink shirts as well.

The Asean leaders do not care about Thaksin. They were TOLD IT WAS SAFE AND THE SUMMIT WOULD HAPPEN AND ABHISIT AND THE DEMOCRATS PROMISED THAT. They will now not be thinking about Thaksin, but thinking that Abhisit and the Democrats are not going to be around long, so ignore them from now on, and they cannot organise anything.

I take it that you have direct knowledge of this. I don't, so I'm glad to become informed.

But if I were one of the ASEAN leaders, and listened to Mr. Abhisit's statement tonight, I would be anxiously awaiting his decision, perhaps as early as tomorrow night, as to how he will put an end to this unpleasantness.

Exactly what I am thinking, Abhisit may have lost face today, but he can make it all good by taking firm actions to pretect the country's stability against a group of people who are "out of control". and thanks to what happened today he has all the right to do so.

I find it amusing how people only look at the event itself and only at what the immediate reaction to it is, without looking into the future and what the current government "is forced" to do now to keep on being a government and maintaining peace and order... this whole thing is almost like a game of chess, and I think the reds are just a couple of steps away from losing this match by making such dumb moves like they did today.

Did anyone hear the latest "news", that the reds now claim that they FLED into the hotel because they were attacked outside... this is almost to weird to be true, what did someone call it "they live in lalaland"

Anyways, lets see what happens next in this exciting chess game, the next move will be Abhisit's.

... while the red shirts are trying to overthrow a legitimate government. This gives the government the right to pretty do whatever is necessary to restore peace, and after today we can expect pretty serious actions.

What are u talking about?the only legitiomate and free elected government in Thailand was TRT with Mr,toxin as PM?Everything what came after are not legitimate governments

Sorry but you need to get your facts straight. The current government is 100% legitimate. The current prime minister has been democratically elected by the Parliament.

I think what you mean is that the current government is not the one that was elected, as the P.P.P and it's coalition partners were ALL dissolved BY LAW because of vote buying.

The last legitimate and free elected government was in fact the one under the P.P.P. until the court ruling I just mentioned a couple of times.

The Yellows were :

Trying to stop the changing of the new constitution, the unwanted one that went through just by way of what is potentially a very rigged referendum held under martial law in places.

Trying to remove democracy totally, and having an appointed government, so that peoples votes mean nothing, only the Elite would ever rule and they would never have to be subject to "peoples votes".

Do not see how that is "enforcing the law".

The Asean leaders do not care about Thaksin. They were TOLD IT WAS SAFE AND THE SUMMIT WOULD HAPPEN AND ABHISIT AND THE DEMOCRATS PROMISED THAT. They will now not be thinking about Thaksin, but thinking that Abhisit and the Democrats are not going to be around long, so ignore them from now on, and they cannot organise anything.

The people did not demonstrate because they wanted the total agenda of the PAD to be fulfilled, part of it was not even voiced until MONTHS after the demonstrations started.

What they were demonstrating for was for the courts to act upon the vote buying which would (did) mean a dissolution of the P.P.P. and they stepped up the over 6 months long peaceful demonstrations after it was clear that the government was about to change the constitution to have this particular dissolution clause removed to save their owns necks.

Also you completely took "enforcing the law" out of the context, as I was not saying that the PAD was enforcing the law, the demonstration were trying to get the courts to do so.

I put the question up before and I say it again, can't anyone image that Aphisit let it come to this on purpose?

The difference between the criminal behavior by the red shirts and the criminal one last year by the yellow shirts is, that the yellow shirts were actually trying to force the courts to enforce the law while the red shirts are trying to overthrow a legitimate government. This gives the government the right to pretty do whatever is necessary to restore peace, and after today we can expect pretty serious actions.

I also said before, that the Leaders from the different countries who were attending the now canceled summit know very well about the Thai political situation and who is pulling whose strings and is acting upon whose interests.

sinewave said it quite well

Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.

ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.

No disregard for anyone but himself.

There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.

Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.

If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?

you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.

They know Thaksin is the one behind the red shirts actions and they know that he is the one to blame for what happened at the summit today. You might all say Aphisit is weak or doesn't know what to do, I think he knows very well what he is doing or what will (did) happen if he is in fact not doing anything...

Would anyone agree with me that the PM let it come to this on purpose?

He's a very intelligent person and he had enough time to prepare for the events in Pattaya, it make me think he wanted the reds to cross the line so he has the right to stop them from doing anything stupid in the future. If he would have acted before and called enough security to make sure they can't interrupt the summit, none of this would have happened and he in return would have no reason to take action against the red.

I would call it a smart move, however the reds will most likely say he got lucky when looking at the outcome of today's events in a couple of days or so.

Being the PM hosting Asean plus CHINA, KOREA and JAPAN, and having them helicoptered out to safety because your country is apparently beyond your control wouldn't seem like a very smart move to me. I would imagine all the delegates reckon they won't be seeing Abhisit at too many more meetings in the future. He will have lost massive credibility in the eyes of his fellow delegates.

This also presumes that he can and will take action. Right now, I don't think that there is much HE can do. The people (and in that I don't mean the PAD but the 30mn un-decided or uncommitted) can rise up against the reds and show their dissatisfaction with the situation. That I think is his only hope. I can't realistically see that if the protests can keep continuing he has any way out other than to hold elections. The army might make the decision for him of course, and then Thailand is straight back to square one.

If he sends in the police to break up the protests, he is doing precisely what Samak and Somchai did and look how far that got them. The factionalised nature of the police mean that there is no guarantee that they would act effectively on his orders anyway. The army might do it for him, but does Thailand want it's name on the front page of the worlds press again having the army march on it's own countrymen?

The PAD got treated with kid gloves, and the Dems often open support means that they can't really do much without the situation spiralling even further out of control and making him appear like a complete hypocrite.

we'll see... I think these leaders very much understand and grasp the total picture of the situation, and that this may well have been the right thing to do, as the reds now look as total idiots and "everyone" agrees that the PM "had to act now"...

I agree totally and the longer he sits there like a schoolboy waiting for a phone call from his mum the longer the country will go down. Whichever side you support, the impasse is wrong and just dragging out the inevitable. Call a fair election overseen buy the UN as we are in a banana republic now by all accounts and in western eyes...

That may be the solution to the symptom but not the solution of the cause. I don't see any "democratic" government succeed (in Thailand) as long as there are the "ruling elites" that want a piece of the action.

The 'logic' used for the yellow shirts was that they had the 'right' to protest. That included taking over public buildings, public places, closing public roads. If the gov't considered this legal--or legal enough not to pursue legal action against those involved, then they need to do the same for the red shirts.

In both cases it's a wrong approach and in most places wouldn't be tolerated. The amount of force used to stop them would be the amount necessary. Lots of back up troops and you keep uping the force until they disperse or head for an area where they are not a threat. You don't let them take over international airports or international meetings. In both cases the security of a lot of people was and is being ignored.

Demonstrations. Yes. Expression of views. Yes. Disruption and potential danger to both civilians and leaders of foreign nations. No.

4 questions?

1. How many months did the PAD demonstrate peacefully?

2. Why did they see it was necessary to take drastic actions at the end?

3. How many months have the red shirts demonstrated peacefully?

4. Why do they see it necessary to take drastic actions?

How much time did Thaksin have to do "good" and how much of that time did he use to exploit the country for his own good? It's a bit ridiculous to try and compare Thaksin with the PAD me thinks. And to to good is to give people a couple of thousand baht to buy their loyalty... well, I would call that pure exploitation of people who have no education and can't see further than their nose.

Millions - thats millions - of Thai people can now afford healthcare thanks to Thaksin Shinawatra. Before he was Prime Minister Thailand had no national healthcare program. If you couldn't afford healthcare - you died - simple as that. Now the hospitals are overflowing by people many of whom earn less than 300 baht a day but have enough to get treatment for medical conditions minor and serious.

Thaksins supporters are loyal to him and will remain loyal to him not because you naively think he's paying them - they're loyal to him because they look on him as a champion of the poor - a man who stands up for rights of the people of Thailand you condescendinlgy dismiss.

All Thai politicians are corrupt - do you think people of Thailand give a rats ass if Thaksin is?

They dont.

They do care that they can take their children and parents for life saving operations that were previously out of reach.

Pure nonsense. Before was a program and noone got rejected. But it didn't work perfect.

This health care was designed in the CHUAN Government but lack of money not yet implemented.

Lack of money because the former government (member Thaksin) lead Thailand to the 1997 crises.

Tell your wife she should not believe everything DTV tells her....

What's wrong with carrying a program from former government?

In fact, the program is up and running now.

I am wondering if you have sufficient knowledge on how government from developing countries work i.e. They may make good program but fail in the execution for certain reason (named corruption)

So... basically you are saying THAKSIN did good by taking an idea he did not come up with and implemented it half ass. I would say that pretty much any government/PM could have done that.

Just an info here, minimum income in Prachuap Khiri Khan is 4444 Baht a months, so that's about 150 baht a day, which again means the POOR can't afford health insurance. The sister of a friend had an accident recently, first she was refused by 2 hospitals because she was unfortunate not to have a health insurance, the 3rd hospital said: You got money and you can keep your leg - you got no money we have to amputate it. We had to take a drive all they way up to Bangkok and guarantee for her so she could keep her leg. In my point of view the Health Care System in Thailand is inhumane and sucks.

T.R.T. were foul

P.P.P were foul

so did the PAD not have the right do demonstrate and pressure the courts into making a decision, before the government was able to change the law/constitution preventing the court ruling (removing the dissolution penalty for vote buying)?

The reds want new elections, but I think everyone knows who would be elected - a Thaksin puppet government that later will be found guilty (again) of buying votes... at which point PAD will cal foul and go on the streets again.

Does anyone here have a solution to this never ending circle?!

That's the crux of the issue, there's no end in sight to the cycle of election, protest, coup etc under the current system

The PAD did offer a way to break the cycle in the New Politics, which were widely misunderstood by those who never bothered to study the points in their later, more detailed versions, and which was endorsed by top Thai law theorists and political scientists. Now that the PAD have largely discredited themselves through tactics much like those we now see among the reds, unfortunately the baby went out with the bathwater.

Thailand needs an electoral system that uses proportional voting and a bicameral structure that gives all major sectors of society a say, so that it's not just villagers (who respond to populist rhetoric that the elite have exploited them, even coming from the number-one elite personality in Thailand) vs urban-dwellers (who view village votes as bought votes, and who view the monarchy and military as less corruptible than the police and plutocrats). As it stands the various sectors of society have no way but protest to voice their frustration at being dominated by majoritarian politics.

Without some sort of proportional system, we'll see red vs yellow vs blue vs the latest colour of the month, interrupted by the occasional election and coup, ad infinitum. The conflicts we see in the streets now may appear to be new in form, but they're part of a political tradition that extends back to the 1930s and 40s Thailand.

The reds are an inextricable link in the cycle, as was Thaksin and as are the Democrats; none of them can break the cycle without forging an entirely different system. The leadership on either side is not likely to challenge the system, as every current party is deeply mired in the patronage system.

well said , but question is how does "forging an entirely different system" look like? Do you think the "proportional system" would work? I kinda like the idea, but it could backfire big time as the "losers" would most likely get the people whose votes they bought to demonstrate as they think they got screwed.

For the life of me I can't understand what the problem is here!

Just hold fresh elections and let the majority rule!

That's democracy.

What is the problem?

a Thaksin puppet government will be voted for and later it will be found guilty (again) of buying votes... at which point PAD will cal foul and go on the streets again.