Morch

Ah, so you read tidbits, but no real idea what you're talking about - the usual. There was no 'agreement' with the Palestinians in 1967. There were ceasefire agreements with Jordan and Egypt. Israel retained control of the territory. The lines mentioned are those relevant to the international borders between the countries, not quite what you thought. The Palestinians were not really involved in these agreements. So, apart from this nonsense, it still doesn't answer the rest - when you say 'their land' does it mean Hamas gets both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip? Kinda doubt the PA will be thrilled. Is the Gaza Strip Hamas land or Palestinian land - same issue. Moreover, why do you insist that Hamas is into peace, or a two-state solution?

When did that happen? Did Hamas embrace this? Is this what Hamas ideology and policies are about?

Here is the line quoted: What land it 'their land'? Is this Hamas land? Palestinian land? What are you on about, exactly? I guess you didn't have a clear idea, just posted away. As for 'agree to a 2 state solution' - that's not even a Hamas demand, or goal. Hamas itself rejects the notion.

Yes, there were mobs of civilians crossing from the Gaza Strip on 7/10, coming on the heels of Hamas. Some of the kidnapped were taken by them, some of the atrocities were carried out by them. Hamas initially tried to make them solely responsible for all the gruesome parts, even.

Palestinian civilians, Gazans, did participate in the 7/10 attack and the related atrocities. Some of the kidnapped Israelis were apparently taken by such. As for 'no justification' - that's your opinion. I'd say that butchering over a thousand Israelis, kidnapping a couple of hundred, make for a good justification. Whining about the bombs is nonsense. Compare figures of bombs/munitions dropped vs. casualties. Almost on par, last time I checked. One bomb per casualty. If you know anything about that, then you must know that if Israel wanted to simply flatten the Gaza Strip and kill everyone - it would be long over by now. You haven no idea what the coming years will bring. Netanyahu did not actually say what you claim, as far as I recall. Ministers and politicians, yes. What you believe, considering your obvious bias is neither interesting nor material. If it's a 'genocide' it's a very lame one. And, oh - people could leave, if Egypt opened the border. Your ROE comment is off mark. The incident happened in Northern Gaza, and the area was designated a battle zone. Apparently not all units were alerted to the the signs being spotted a day earlier, and the soldier that shot the last guy did so against express orders, on the scene. Got to love posters who 'have no time' then go on making lengthy tirades, one after another.

Putting up a contrived, loaded question is not asking for an opinion, it's framing the discussion and broadcasting yours.

Because there are no frictions, no rogue statements by politicians elsewhere? That's a very weak argument. Anyone who followed Israeli politics for the last year would tell you this how the current government rolls. In contrast, Hamas ideology and policy appear in both their Charters.

I think constantly posting nonsense on these topics is rude, yes.

There is no consistent, serious element within Hamas leadership openly advocating a two-state solution, peace and so on. There's one specific leader which makes such comments from time to time (not going the full distance, more along the lines of advocating making up with the PA, which implies accepting the PA's position and obligations). Again, there is no such policy - there are politicians saying things, which they thing they can get away with because Netanyahu is weak. Not denouncing them is exactly because of that - but neither is there any government decision about it, nor was it brought to a vote as far as I'm aware. There is no such policy, and there is no massive support for such policy. You're grasping at straws.

No, it will actually highlight it. There are right wing elements in the current government. They sense Netanyahu's weakness and they say whatever they like. It does not make it policy, it does not imply it's a general Israeli ideology. The mainstream of Israeli politics and society doesn't really want anything to do with the Gaza Strip. As pointed out, Israel withdrew form the Gaza Strip long ago - under a government headed by a right-wing/militaristic leader. You can compare Hamas ideology with that of (some) right wing/religious parties - that's about it.

No, that would be you displaying your ignorance, again. Note that I specified Hamas? OK. Not all the Palestinians (although I think many share this notion, to varying degrees), not the PA's official policy. Hamas. You, on the other hand pit Hamas vs. Israel on this. Israel as a whole, does not have such a policy or ideology. There are political elements within Israel (mostly right wing religious ones) which hold such views. If it was Israel's ideology in the way you (falsely) imply, Israel would have never withdrew from the Gaza Strip to begin with. Spin it as much as you like there are pro-peace elements in Israel, there are those who'll go for peace not for love of the Palestinians, and then there are them 20% of the Israelis which are Arab (or rather, Palestinian). You're welcome to own up to your nonsense at any time.

Hamas ideology holds that all the land comprising the West Bank, Israel, and the Gaza Strip is 'Palestine'. They are not about sharing, co-existing or the rest of this stuff.

Cry me a river.....

Strange how some who have no clue what they post about, constantly troll and spam feel strongly about their nonsense being pointed out. All the more strange is how these posters manage to partake in these topics and still misrepresent views of others.

It is not 'arrogant' to expect posters to be able to formulate their own ideas and thoughts, without constantly relying on long clips (which it is doubtful they themselves bother to watch). Then there's that gap between 'expertise' and 'nonsense', 'trolling' and the rest of what some offer, day in day out.

See, the problem with you pontificating about 'rational', is that your posts do not convey much of that. So taking your comments on rationality as some expert (or even, rational) opinion, is a tall order.

Got to love poster's with mind reading skills. I doubt they have much clue as to what they post about, or even watch the clips they post on here. If that was so, they could articulate their views on the forum. Alas..... Even more amusing, a poster whining about personal attacks, going on a string of personal attacks. That logic...

No, you made a strong claim about another member. You cannot back it up, so you start with the huffing and puffing again. Same old. And you are, of course, misrepresenting what I post and posted.

You can't even follow your own posts.....

Sanctioned? You're just dodging things, restarting your own 'arguments' (such as they are) afresh whenever you can't answer.

Got to love posters who have little idea of their own about things, posting long clips and asking for other posters' views.

Cyprus says a joint operation with Mossad has foiled a suspected Iranian plot to kill Israelis https://apnews.com/article/cyprus-israel-iran-mossad-plot-5f390cc785900f3f6600042779d54868 At least no trees were hit with hand grenades this time.

Not all Hamas how? The Israeli government does have extremist ministers, that was never denied. You do not know what most Palestinians would agree to, and things are never as simple as your one liner statements. Regardless, the comments above were about Hamas, not all or most Palestinians. Hamas official policy = 'a few intransigent extremists'? Really?

Relying on dodgy sources, and being unable to articulate ideas independently is a hallmark of some posters on here. Many of share your 'views'.

Chomsky is not 'regarded as THE expert on the Middle East' other than in nonsense posts.