Morch

Is there a precedent for the entire chain of command stepping down over an incident like this? Not interested in your hollow generalizations. Asked a specific question in response to a rather specific comment.

You're responding to the wrong post. And what you 'believe' does not turn this into a fact. Try as you may HRW does not decide these things.

@billd766 I doubt millions care, that's your opinion, and you do tend to get carried away. As you say, a soldier either made a mistake, or acted against orders, or whatever - how does that turn the incident into something that implies all the chain of command should step down? Is there any precedent to something like you prescribe?

Authoritative? That's a choice. Was addressed on post on several topics already. Guess you didn't bother, naturally. That there are 'others' is not surprising, nor very interesting - the point was that you announced it like it was a fact, settled, a done deal. It is not.

To a Human Rights Watch piece. As far as I'm aware HRW does not actually decide these things. Comments about HRW's reliability and stance were made several times on these topics.

Not your opinion how?

There were reports about Hamas trying to lure IDF soldiers into ambush by calling out in Hebrew. Links were provided in the past, and earlier today on a parallel topic. Hamas men tried something similar on 7/10, trying to convince holed up Israelis to come out saying they were IDF/Police.

Crimes Against Humanity, Says A Wannabe Legal Expert

There was no such claim, though. As for the causes for the attack - this was discussed all over these topics, in detail. That you can't be bothered reading them is your own choice.

What kind of 'third party or neutral involvement' are you on about?

Since when does the poster replied to care about what Biden says....?

Being Jewish can mean either/and/or/whatever one practicing the faith, or a member of an ethnic/cultural group. For example, not all Israelis are into religion, and not all religious Jews are into Israel, Zionism etc.

Well, so far those doing most of the paying are the Gazans.

Oh, I'm sure they will. My point was about how they'll deal with Israel on related issues. I think we had some miscommunication on this matter.

Can always try to self medicate with Adam Sandler's Hanukkah songs....

Yes. Because of two reasons: (a) Apart from the propaganda angle, the combatant: civilian ratio is not, I think, atrocious given the circumstances, and would be something most defense ministries/armies can convey to respective governments. (b) The above said, there will be a time (if casualties continue to mount at the same pace) where things could no longer be framed in any reasonable or digestible context. Meaning, it will just be too many dead people for governments to stomach - politically, for sure. Obviously, not there yet.

Yeah, I didn't say that, though....you got you quotes mixed.

I don't mind Christmas. The music in the shopping malls is annoying, but that's about it. No disgusting holiday food, though. Kids in Mrs. Morch's family love it, so put it a bit of effort for them, if they show up. Lights on the Jack-fruit tree (naturally shaped like a proper Christmas tree), I let my beard grow some (so the fake beard incident from the mall won't be repeated), and they get presents. Dog does her bit too, though under protest - hat/antlers until she decides it's enough and destroys them. Also 'camping' in the garden, staying up late and we build a fire (sometimes). All good.

Is that the best you can come up with? The first link does not actually go the full distance on your own assertions. The second link was addressed numerous times by now - kinda doubt you missed that. Not government policy, not a ministry with any authority, and the paper was not embraced by the government. As for the last point, I beg to differ - I think many on the current Israeli government are thick as bricks, ignorant and/or victims of religious set of mind which hampers logical thought processes. They have smarts, sort of, on the domestic political level - and even that's debatable. Nice try.

@thaibeachlovers Is there any country you see as closer to your ideal democracy? Or is this just yet another pointless rant?

You manage not to hum Christmas songs after an hour at a mall?!

I agree that there are vile comments, or at the very least 'unhelpful' ones coming from Israeli politicians (mostly right wing). And sure, they are doing their best to exploit the situation in order to further their agenda. Not denying that there's a backdrop to this as well. As said on many posts on this forum - both sides have a long lasting leadership crisis, and both display a split society. This makes it easy for extreme views to be promoted, and harder for moderate ones to gain purchase. Looking at the potential replacements, not a whole lot of hope things will improve on this score (but maybe not get worse, which is something). Internationally as well, by the way - no one of the caliber required to force or pull this through. What this implies is that the level in which things are addressed is the operational, middle management level, technical - whatever term fits. Bigger issues will not (and maybe, cannot) be addressed. The rhetoric either repeats on loop, or gets more extreme, doing it's bit for the scene. If it wasn't for the extreme religious elements in both sides, I'd say leave them to it, and they'll tire and sort it out eventually. But religion is a powerful motivator, so leaving them to it can have even worse consequences. I think everyone knows the score, what ought to be done, what can and cannot be negotiated, and all the rest.

Why did you edit out the posts (your own posts...) that I was replying to? And as said, you've got nothing but a bunch of assumptions and opinions, some of which are on less than solid ground. The main thrust of your edited out comments was an implication of an ethnic cleansing intent/effort by Israel. You have not produced anything serious as support on the previous posts, you do not present such now. The bombing seen as excessive? That's not by itself a support for what you allege. You can pin in on a whole lot of other reasons, issues, agendas. And 'moderates' participation in government helping their future political prospects? Very debatable. There are views that this may actually harm them, and serve Netanyahu. Asserting 'overwhelmingly likely that their thinking has changed' - carries little weight, just your opinion. Current polls continue to be very much negative to Netnayahu and the right in general. Considering the votes were almost evenly split last time, there isn't such a huge gap to close or anything. People stayed on in the North of the Gaza Strip. There is no further attempt to dislodge them, even as sporadic fighting is still going on there. If this was about what you allege, there would be efforts to do exactly that. With regard to the Central areas of the Gaza Strip, they were basically hopped over after the hostage exchanges and the collapse of the 'ceasefire'/'pause'. The reason being that the clock started to tick (or seemed to, whatever) with regard to USA support and time left to operate. A move in the south of the Gaza Strip, where more Hamas forces are located was prioritized. If what you allege was a main concern it would make very little sense leaving a mass of population at the center of the Gaza Strip. Doesn't add up. Rafah is on the border with Egypt. If Israel wanted to do as you claim, they'd have to 'motivate' people who escaped there to leave and cross over. That did not happen. To clarify, Rafah is a town/city - it's not just the border pass. Sending in ground troops implies Israeli casualties. Israelis are kinda soft on that. If the only purpose was to drive away the Palestinians, it would not have required a ground operation, or rather, troops could have moved in at a much later stage - thus avoiding casualties. Your 'vengeance' point is, again, a matter of opinion you inject to the argument, nothing more. Given that this is about policy, not very convincing. Your last point is nonsense. The more destruction the more effort it would be to rule and manage the Gaza Strip. The more death, the less cooperation from international community. The government's lack of end-game plan, or even clear goals for this war is one of the major topics discussed on Israeli and international media. That you allege that there is, in fact, something of the sort, runs counter to reality and general view. There are columns detailing how Netanyahu dodges and refuses to discuss this, about various ministers and politicians airing all sort of comments (sometime contradictory) and about the IDF complaints that the lack of direction makes the war effort troublesome. So back to square one - your opinions, beliefs and conjecture - nothing more.

Or that the rise in support is the product of them children being killed. Whatever. The point about this 'support' is that people tend to interpret it according to current events and their own agenda. The question is whether it will persist, and whether it will be translated to something more. I doubt both.

It can be said, but it would be wrong. Israel does have an opposition, a pro-peace camp, and a 20% Arab minority. None of them are into what you allege.