Orac

That's a couple of sad lies. The PAD only reacted with violence after some people thrown grenades at their rallies at the Govt House. And those incidents which ended up killing a few people still have not been pursued by the police to this day. The PAD never instigated the violence unlike the UDD or the red shirts. If you have evidence indicating otherwise, show it to everyone here. Don't just say it.

I think that it's fair to say that the PAD instigated mob rule. After all, they were the first group to take to the streets. Now history shows us that mob rule often escalates into violence as people become angry at having their lives and livelihoods disrupted, and we saw this happen on occasions when both the PAD and then the Reds were causing chaos. I am condemning violence on both sides, as I have already said.

The fact that the PAD ignored democratic principles and took to the streets, causing disruption, was an open invitation for the other side to counter and do exactly the same thing, which is exactly what happened.

Why didn't the PAD simply beat Thaksin at the ballot box? Then there would be concrete and irrefutable evidence that they had popular support. Why did they have to take to the streets in the first place?

Though I agree with most of what you have posted so far I would disagree that PAD ignored democratic principals when they took to the streets - in a free society people should be able to PEACEFULLY demonstrate and express there opinions.

The problem was that they overstepped the mark when the took over GH and the airport and basically disregarded the law. This escalation was then followed by the 'red' protest which was also wrong.

What I'm tired of is the ongoing statements that the TRT, TTT (thaksin, Samak, Somchai) governments were democratically elected.

They were not democatically elected, they came to power through massise rampant vote buying. And there's lots of evidence.

vote buying, whether direct or indirect, exists worldwide. always has, always will be. you think people in western countries vote for someone if there wasn't some sort of economic incentive to do so?

think of all the "let's vote for change" americans that chose obama. if you don't think vote buying was involved (i.e., massive campaigning, advertising, etc. promising a better economy, more jobs, monetary bailouts, etc. in return) isn't vote buying you're fooling yourself.

Wrong again. One is vote buying which is illegal , the other is called pork barreling which is not illegal.

Since pork barreling seems to mean "I will vote for you if you give me something in return" there seems to be a very fine line between the two.

The principal seems to be the linking of airline systems with immigration systems so whilst the Thai immigration system is not linked in there should not be a problem - all airline transactions can be done using a uk passport but thai passports can be presented to Thai immigration who sit outside the system on arrival/departure.

Thjough not relevant to this forum I would be more interested in how travel between countries that both have integrated systems ie. us to uk, would happen as all parties would be tied into the same system.

Surely your wife should book the ticket using her UK passport and check in with the airline using it then present her Thai passport to immigration on the way out.

maybe that would be the answer, do airlines look for visas when flying out of thailand?

anybody know when this system comes into operation?

Not sure why there would be a visa if she has dual nationality???

What I'm tired of is the ongoing statements that the TRT, TTT (thaksin, Samak, Somchai) governments were democratically elected.

They were not democatically elected, they came to power through massise rampant vote buying. And there's lots of evidence.

vote buying, whether direct or indirect, exists worldwide. always has, always will be. you think people in western countries vote for someone if there wasn't some sort of economic incentive to do so?

think of all the "let's vote for change" americans that chose obama. if you don't think vote buying was involved (i.e., massive campaigning, advertising, etc. promising a better economy, more jobs, monetary bailouts, etc. in return) isn't vote buying you're fooling yourself.

Very good point which many people seem to miss when claiming votes were bought.

Essentially every vote is 'bought', whether it be with promise of a cash "bung" now, or the promise of Tax breaks, putting money towards your health care, or into your schools....

Why would you vote for a party which was going to give you nothing in return?

I've argued several times that i don't see the problem with vote buying, it's your vote, and if you think that getting cash now from a party is worth it then so be it.

Absolutely true. All politicians the world over buy votes in one way or another. By way of example, look at how much the Americans just spent on marketing their politicians to the general public. At the end of the day. it's your vote to do what you like with.

Also look at the subsidies that are paid to farmers in US and EU because they are powerful voting lobbies. These have come about because those working in agriculture tend to be very poorly paid and incomes can flucuate wildly. Looking at figures only 0.6% of working population in US are in Farming, fisheries and forestry and 1.4% in agriculture in the UK. Thailand has 42.6% working in agriculture (figures from cia factbook and are a few years old but the principle is there). It is one of the main tasks of any government to look after the poorest in society, especially when there is a large accumulation of wealth at the top. I think Thailand has a very long way to go to deal with this disparity and the the poorer elements are now developing into a strong lobbying group that didn't exist before. There seems very little difference to me between vote buying (illegal) and redistribution of wealth (worthy aim) apart from one being done before voting and the other after power has been gained - if the poor were promised money AFTER power had been gain how would it be viewed???

Internet records to be stored for a year

The “e-borders” system will log passenger information according to the data provided by the airline, which in most cases will be from the non-British passport used for the outbound journey. As a result, a dual national – even if readmitted to Britain by an immigration officer on showing a British passport – could be registered as an alien with no more rights than any other tourist, and limited to six months in the country.

On a subsequent trip, such a person attempting to return to Britain could be recorded as having broken immigration law. An airline, under the “e-borders” system, would be denied permission to carry the passenger home. Even if a British passport were presented, it would have to be verified by the nearest consulate or by the Passport Agency in the UK.

Australians, Americans, New Zealanders, Canadians and South Africans who have adopted British nationality are among those likely to be affected. There are more than half a million people born in these countries in the UK.

Airlines are concerned about the “e-borders” system. “It was not designed for dual nationals,” an industry source said. “This really will create a challenge for the authorities. As things stand [people] will not be able to leave Britain on one passport and come back on another.”

A UK Border Agency spokesman said: “With dual passports, you need to use the passport you bought the ticket with; that is the passport that is registered with Advance Passenger Information. If you don’t use that passport, then you will not be able to travel.”

my understanding is that if say, my wife(thai with both a uk passport and a thai passport) leaves thailand to travel to the uk, normally she would book the ticket under her thai passport, leave thailand on her thai passport and enter the uk on her uk passport. but seeing as the ticket, and the advance passenger info. is under the thai passport then that would cause a problem when she tries to enter the uk by showing her uk passport.

the same problem would occur when returning to thailand.

to travel on her thai passport, and enter the uk on that passport would necessitate getting a visa for the uk.

am i the one who is missing something here?

Surely your wife should book the ticket using her UK passport and check in with the airline using it then present her Thai passport to immigration on the way out.

The problem here would be if Thai immigration are also linked into the airline systems and adopt a system similar to the UK/US ones.

New video op for Al Gore to discuss how Songkran is dehydrating the planet......and were were all worried about rising bl**dy sea levels!......get the antiglobalization protesters on this one..... URGENT!

What a ridiculous post - surely everyone now realises it is Thaksins fault

I was near the bridge today and nothing was going on. In Nongkhai things always happen 50 years later...... Even the "coup" came to Nongkhai a few days later. The 2. day there finally was more police in town (on bicycle since their budget is low....) and the 3. day the marine police were at the bridge. No, in Nongkhai it is always quiet. And in my little village 4 km from the city there was even no songkran...... That's why I like it here.

I was out with the family for 2 days in the pickup for Songkran and thought we managed to cover every village in the area! Looks like we missed one.

If you let me know where you are I can ensure you a good soaking next year

With the numbers of ex special forces soldiers in Thailand, particularly Pattaya, he probably didn't have to look very far!

If you want reasonable replies I suggest you try a less inflamatory title.

I see nothing inflammatory in that at all. Please explain your comments

I agree. Sit down, take a valium before you make another response

Don't worry - I am well chilled out at the moment

All I am saying is that there is no evidence to back up the OPs claim that there is rioting in Nong Khai - all I can find on the internet are a couple of reports that protesters had blocked the friendship bridge (there is another post already about this). IMHO the term rioting is a bit over the top.

OK, maybe I am wrong here, but the title is not posed as a question but as a statement then requests evidence to back it up. The term rioting is used as opposed to protesting or even gathering which are far more neutral terms that would fit better with the OPs request - by requesting non-political and factual evidence the less emotive terms would be more relevant.

I opened the thread expecting to find details of rioting in Nong Khai, where I visit 2-3 times a week, as this is what is explicitly stated in the title however there is nothing to back this up and, judging from the lack of responses since the original post was made, is a major exageration of the facts. There has been enough damage done to Thailand over the last few months without any extra fuel being added to the flames.

I am not sure how closely related the 'village culture' we have in our village is in comparison to the rest of thailand but there certainly is a big requirement to drink if the is an excuse. I was woken this morning by what sounded like gunshots and my wife explained it was becuase a man had died in the night a few doors down (apparently he was old and had been ill for some time so it was no surprise). All evening people have been heading down to his house and my wife tells me it is 'traditional' that everyone will drink and play cards and 'roulelle' all night and all day tomorrow now.

Having a new baby has given us the excuse to get out of going but so far 3 people have called round to see where we are.

My understanding was it was a broad based coalition of supporters of chickens everywhere. Unfortunately due to 24 hr rolling news and the need for immediate opinions of TV pundits there will clearly be a need to pidgeon-hole and stereotype by place of origin, level of education, amount of hair and waistsize so as to trivialise the whole issue.

My wife kept chickens once (though she assures me she never worked in KFC despite many of her friends doing so) and therefore I feel confident I am an expert on chicken culture and all things chicken.

You are way ahead of the game here - I am still waiting for shirt selection to be sorted out.

If you want reasonable replies I suggest you try a less inflamatory title.

At least he didn't ask whether the bars would have to close early.

I don't care about the bars, but I do care about the ongoing changes to the vistors visa requirements! The old rule was a waste of time, and a pain in the arse. New rules are fine as I always fly in.

If you are in my situation with a Thai wife and son who frequently travel with me in and out of Thailand, any military rule and possible changes to who can enter and leave is a very serious concern.

Why don't you get an O visa if you have a Thai wife?

After reading all the above crap, it would seem you have all passed the test necessary to become "Redshirts".

I expect to see you all departing on the Bangkok bound bus within the next hour!

Shame on you for suggesting we farangs join the protests. Please can you go and find people for your little bangkok event elsewhere as we have more important things to do here fighting the evil KFC empire run by the shadowy figure Colonel Sanders.

ps. How much are you paying - I could be turned

Anyone have an update on the situation at the Friendship bridge???

I'm seeing gunfire on TV now....around Victory I have Star Channel 6 TPBS

Just watching the same and at least one of the soldiers was not firing into the air though for some reason they seem to be reluctant to show what is being shot at.

I would wait and see whats left of Bangkok before you rush to any decision!

If you are joining me on the side of the chickens it is unlikely that you will be entitled to a zinger burger - my personal fight is to get the flavouring changed in the zinger as the Thais seem to make it a bit too dry.

Can you keep us informed of this major political event - it was obviously planned to happen while everyone is busy with the Songkran celibrations in Bangkok.

Just off to buy a new shirt - can you confirm which one I need to be against KFC as it isn't clear in you initial post.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your spouse or significant other is not a source that should be posted on TV, unless they are in the Military High Command, the Cabinet, or a member of Parliament.

I would have thought that in the majority of cases peoples spouses or significant others would be Thai and therefore have a better understanding of what is actually happenning than a lot of posters on here who seem to be arguing over the minutae of the law or demanding a heavy handed crackdown.

Much to do about nothing compared with the riots at a G20 meeting.

In Pattaye its just a rumble of a few hooligans, there is more disruption after a European cup football.

Do you honestly believe that the participants of the ASEAN meeting are bothered with it? Its just some sideshow for them, that's all, they have seen much more worse.

This article I wrote yesterday, and nothing has changed my opinion yet.

Lets call a spade a spade.

The red shirts failed completely to organize a mass demonstration, and they did not succeeded any of their goals or targets

First they announced 1 million people, they could hardly get 100 000 and even that number came down rapidly after a few hours.

They proclaimed that they will demonstrate all over the country, also this failed.

They announced they will block the traffic in Bangkok completely by 20 000 taxis, also this failed, even that much that by standers pushed away the blocking taxis and burned red flags while the crowd was cheering GO AWAY. Did you see in YouTube how the taxis drove away to escape from the anger of the public. And I wrote PUBLIC not yellow shirts.

They announced that they will block the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya, they failed. I just saw some news covering on TV that the participants of the meeting where joking on the terrace of the hotel about the pathetic attempt of the red shirts to enter the hotel.

My wife is in Chiang Mai on a family visit, she did not see any demonstration, and not even see a red shirt. And this is in a so called stronghold of the red's.

They announced that ten thousands demonstrators from issan will come to Bangkok, where are they?

Its very clear that you didn't have the support from the Thai public nationwide, even worse they start to dislike you and showed it very clear on a few occasions.

So all red shirts fan in this forum accept your defeat with grace, lick your wounds of your shattered dreams and ego and move on. Don't blame others for your defeat, because you created your defeat by yourself.

And if you are genuine to the reforms you demanded, get rid of Thaksin and his cronies and start to work on new party with new young politicians and distance yourself from nitwits like Chalerm and Samak and do what any opposition party is doing in a democracy, oppose in the parliament and not on the streets. And use the time to the next election to reform your movement and make a decent political plan with a better future for the country you claim to love.

You learned a hard lesson so you should learn from it. And maybe this can even benefit you in the future not making the same mistakes.

So we can conclude that besides a few thousands hardcore red shirts, the public did not support you at all.

Even Thaksin, at last start to understand that his game is over, that's why he stopped his phone-ins and let his family flee the country.

THE GAME IS OVER, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED WITH THE WRONG CARDS AND LOST.

Kind regards and wish you the best

henry

Errr - not sure what channel you are watching but you seem to be a bit behind!

I wrote that comment yesterday April 10th.

Fair enough. In the light of recent events would you like to update it?