khunjamespittman

I calmly read your post. It said nothing.

Facts which I included:

1. The Thai people had no voice in the election of Abhisit.

2. April 10, 2010 will be a day of infamy in Thailand as the The government ordered its soldiers to fire on their friends and neighbors and fellow Thai citizens. Hopefully there will be time for a trial in the Hague sometime in the future.

3. Uk has demonstated how a civilized nation transitions peacefully to a new leadership. They showed real class while Thai goverment only showed contempt for its citizens.

4. The current government has made many public requests of other nations to help them which have been ignored and have made no diplomatic requests that have been acknowledged. This speaks loudly about the pitiful reputation of the current Thai government.

Sorry you were unable to rebut anything.

Fact and opinion are not the same thing, you bring the second not the first.

Please enlighten me. Exactly what is not fact?

The rest of the world has observed as the UK has now installed a new PM after holding their election in a civilized manner while the Thai government has continued to delay the disolution of the parliment and hold a new election. The rest of the civilized world has watched as the Thai governement has used lethal force on Thai citizens and refused to respect the claims of Thai citizens for a legitimate election. The Thai government continues to threaten Thai citizens to try to coerce them into allowing the current government to treat them as inferior people without the human rights that should be accorded to all Thai citizens.

The current Thai government has irreparably damaged the reputation of Thailand in the community of soverign nations. They may hang on for a while but they will always be remembered for their disenfranchisement of many Thai citizens and the use of the Thai military to kill their friends and neighbors.

yawnnnnnnnn

when are you red sympathizers going to come up with some new material?

please give us some sort of challenge and not just post the same dribble that has been shot down so many times here.

I calmly read your post. It said nothing.

Facts which I included:

1. The Thai people had no voice in the election of Abhisit.

2. April 10, 2010 will be a day of infamy in Thailand as the The government ordered its soldiers to fire on their friends and neighbors and fellow Thai citizens. Hopefully there will be time for a trial in the Hague sometime in the future.

3. Uk has demonstated how a civilized nation transitions peacefully to a new leadership. They showed real class while Thai goverment only showed contempt for its citizens.

4. The current government has made many public requests of other nations to help them which have been ignored and have made no diplomatic requests that have been acknowledged. This speaks loudly about the pitiful reputation of the current Thai government.

Sorry you were unable to rebut anything.

The rest of the world has observed as the UK has now installed a new PM after holding their election in a civilized manner while the Thai government has continued to delay the disolution of the parliment and hold a new election. The rest of the civilized world has watched as the Thai governement has used lethal force on Thai citizens and refused to respect the claims of Thai citizens for a legitimate election. The Thai government continues to threaten Thai citizens to try to coerce them into allowing the current government to treat them as inferior people without the human rights that should be accorded to all Thai citizens.

The current Thai government has irreparably damaged the reputation of Thailand in the community of soverign nations. They may hang on for a while but they will always be remembered for their disenfranchisement of many Thai citizens and the use of the Thai military to kill their friends and neighbors.

Even as an American, I am shocked that this ill-informed bureaucrat sticks his nose in something that is none of his business, and probably nothing he really knows about... I am sure he got a heavy briefing before he met with the red shirts, but still, that was not enough. His statements to the effect that he supported the UDD are shocking.

I am deeply disappointed in an uninformed government clone trying to saddle up next to the red shirts in an effort to come across as some hero.

Shame, shame...

Mayebe it might help if you got a briefing.

engineer -----

I assume you may be quoting Wiki ..... fair usage rules require you to cite your sources. I also assume that you have never read ANYTHING that Thaksin has said and done.

You have no idea who your talking to.....

Be careful there! jdinasia never posts one liners and all his posts are considered. Just ask him. He'll tell you so. LOL

Ah the accuracy of kjp --- I did recently say that I rarely post one liners (not that I never do.)

The above is really a three liner

1)I assume you are quoting wiki

2)I informed him of fair usage (quoting uncited sources that are published on the internet.)

3) I made an observation about his comments based upon his holding Thaksin up as a model for democracy

On the other hand you paraphrased me in a way that was not factual Some people might consider that flaming

Funny that you make such a claim. I recall someone unnamed who several weeks ago accused me of actually wanting to see people killed. thats's a pretty disgraceful accusation. Don't you think?

engineer -----

I assume you may be quoting Wiki ..... fair usage rules require you to cite your sources. I also assume that you have never read ANYTHING that Thaksin has said and done.

You have no idea who your talking to.....

Huh? Please inform me, who am I "talking to"?

You have made comments about Abhisit after he resigns. You have quoted some random internet article without citing the source. You have not mentioned anything about Thaksin's statements about Democracy; such as, "Democracy is not my goal"

Jdinasia It's midnight there in CM and 81 degrees F. You should get a life.

engineer -----

I assume you may be quoting Wiki ..... fair usage rules require you to cite your sources. I also assume that you have never read ANYTHING that Thaksin has said and done.

You have no idea who your talking to.....

Be careful there! jdinasia never posts one liners and all his posts are considered. Just ask him. He'll tell you so. LOL

Brit knows the violence of the reds and has always known it. His one-liners are meant to inflame readers and nothing else.

Me thinks I hear a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black from jdinasia! Take a look at his past posts.

As a general rule I do not write one-liners and I do provide context and factual information. On the other hand some posters post one-liners and add no factual content, or repeat the same disproven rants over and over Who was it that was talking about the court putting out a 'no-confidence vote'?

I do not pretend that my views are not controversial at times but (mostly!) they are considered and based upon reality, history, and facts. I do make errors and am happy to be corrected

Maybe you should look out the back door of your room there in CM see what kind of demonstration is going on. LOL

It all depends on what color shirt you have if it is yellow free press your own TV station. If it is red your TV station is blocked.

Or you could say if the TV Station is broadcasting lies, advocating violence and inciting people to break the law it is being blocked.

But I will be honest, I have never seen Red TV but if it is anything like what is being said on the red stage and other red internet outlets than I do believe shutting them down is only the first step. They need to be prosecuted as would happen in most any other country that claims freedom of the press.

In fact, in most other countries stations like this would not even be allowed to get a license. The problem we have here is the timing in which the PM took action against theses stations. They should have been held accountable before they helped incite the current lawless mob holding the country hostage.

Keep in mind that there are MANY restrictions to the press in EVERY country and censorship is very standard in most of Asia with things those of us in the west are not used to. However, there are also things shown in the UK that would not be shown on broadcast TV in the US and vice versa.

The FCC in the use is the governing body over what can be said on the airwaves as well as who can own a radio or TV station. The FCC is a gov't body. We would not have this kind of problem in the US because these channels would never make in on the air to begin with. Fox is an example I'm sure people would use to say you can get away with hateful and bias reporting but they are very careful not to incite violence and condemn it. However, the do spend most of their time actually doing commentary and not news but many people think it is actually news. That is where the confusion comes from.

I never read so much crap in my life.What do you think,what this government and TV stations and this paper sad is the truth?Ask any Human right group what they think about this government. The next disaster comes when they start killing there own people.How do you call that in Western democracies.....a civil war!!!!!

I have never seen a Tuk-Tuk but they are the most clean burning machine in Thailand.

In any conflict, propaganda is always used by both sides. It's up to the intelligent(not 'poor' Northern people) to decide what's the truth and what's propaganda.

The shutdown of these Red Shirt 'media' was for the fact that they INCITED VIOLENCE. People like to talk about free speech and all that but there's a limit to what you should be able to say and getting other people to INCITE VIOLENCE and OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT merits a shutdown don't you think?

I am extremely happy and exicted that we have your intelligence here to help us understand what YOU think.

It is somewhat confusing why a person with your exceptional intelligence has to resort to such contorted rationale to justify your beliefs or is it fantacies.

I agree, and your point is well taken. Perhaps they have learned from the great mistake that Dr Weng made when he out of hand, rejected an offer at the negotiation table. There was not only no democracy in that, there was not even consultation with the other red shirt leaders.

But a reasonable person would expect to see the proposals in writing, go through them, develop questions and rebuttals, and then go through back-channels to express their concerns. Most negotiations are not done under the spectre of the tv camera. All of this takes time, and no doubt the government, by NOT setting a required date of response, is giving the red shirts time to discuss and either agree or disagree. I feel Mr Abhisit did not do himself a service by not giving a drop-dead date (affirm or the offer drops dead at a certain date). A reasonable date might have been one or two weeks hence.

The carrot and the stick: the carrot is compromise, reconciliation, and candid addressing of the valid points that the red shirts brought up.

The stick is the IF - if they don't go along, meaning either continue negotiation or accept, then the big stick will come out.

I think Mr Abhisit has done a fine job of weathering the storms of criticism due to his **perceived** inaction. It will be interesting, again, to see how this all plays out.

The drop-dead date was announced earlier today. You have until Thursday or possibly Friday of this week, after the Coronation Day celebrations. We will disperse you at the end of the week.

Some compromise! Take it or else. Abhisit doesn't have a good trak record for keeping promises or for that matter tell the truth.

Quite a cmpromising technique he has. A lesson in How NOT TO win friends and influence enemies.

THE NATION: PM: I have heard you fully. I just can't accept the 15-day House dissolution demand.

Is this guy serious? The red shirts have been offering 90 days (3 months) for over 2 weeks now. But Abhisit is still twisting it down to 15 days?

Abhisit is obviously a little more serious about solving problems than you snoopy.

Geez give a dog a bone and he tries and takes your hand!

Why can't you just sit down, be quiet and wait till the Elections?

How is it possible for this guy to sayehe has "heard you fully" and the a sentence later make a false statement. Nobody can terust this guy!

How is it possible for any reputable new organization to say that the government has not interfered with the media. What does The Nation say shutting down a TV station, radio statiosn and anti-government bloggers is. That is the ultimate of interference.

This statement clearly demonstrates that they have no idea what the job of professional journalists is (to record the facts).

I venture to say that The Nation would have had a much different editorial if it was their media operations that were shut down by the government.

After this editorial it should be abundantly clear to everyone that The Nation is a propaganda organization and not a news organizaqtion.

Red Shirt movement is about peace/love , unfortunately the government likes to kill/maim innocents.

which planet are you referring to? which country?! peace and love from red shirt people?

watch the youtube video above... lots of peace and love....

Brit knows the violence of the reds and has always known it. His one-liners are meant to inflame readers and nothing else.

Me thinks I hear a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black from jdinasia! Take a look at his past posts.

This sounds very nice and finally unlock the situation. Also it makes really govt look like the good guys willing to compromise while the other side... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 points program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Where's the compromise?

This sounds just government BS "we're here to help you"

Abhisit is going to have to get real and act like a real leader!

I ask all TV viewers to read the closed forum that is dominated by The Nation.

This forum is clearly not a news forum anymore. It is an editorial forum for The Nation and should be designated as such. There is not longer any need to keep this forum closed under the guise of news.

I find very little news there now. It is full of opinions and rumors from the Nation Reporters and government propaganda..

Further I hope that when this conflict is resolved and a legitimate government comes to power that appropriate action will be taken to denounce the The Nation as a propaganda arm of the existing government and consideration be given th revoke their right to operate a public broadcast organization via licensing restrictions. I further hope that invsetigation of the reporters postings be examined for violation of Thai laws. It appears to me that several of The Nations postings in recent days of rumors and false statements may very well be in violation of the current operating Thai law at the present.

In earlier postings I have consistently requested that TV rein in these renegade reporters and remove all editorial and opinion postings from the "Closed News Forum". The question must be asked. Is TV in a conspiracy with the Nation by permitting this postings. Under Thai internet precedence is would appear that they are at least culpable. These postings remove any sembance of neutrality.

Please let me correct your statement. Three independent studies analized the Gore/Bush results and all determined that Bush was the clear winner. Repeating a false rumor can never make it fact.

I ask all TV viewers to read the closed forum that is dominated by The Nation.

This forum is clearly not a news forum anymore. It is an editorial forum for The Nation and should be designated as such. There is not longer any need to keep this forum closed under the guise of news.

I find very little news there now. It is full of opinions and rumors from the Nation Reporters and government propaganda..

Further I hope that when this conflict is resolved and a legitimate government comes to power that appropriate action will be taken to denounce the The Nation as a propaganda arm of the existing government and consideration be given th revoke their right to operate a public broadcast organization via licensing restrictions. I further hope that invsetigation of the reporters postings be examined for violation of Thai laws. It appears to me that several of The Nations postings in recent days of rumors and false statements may very well be in violation of the current operating Thai law at the present.

In earlier postings I have consistently requested that TV rein in these renegade reporters and remove all editorial and opinion postings from the "Closed News Forum". The question must be asked. Is TV in a conspiracy with the Nation by permitting this postings. Under Thai internet precedence is would appear that they are at least culpable. These postings remove any sembance of neutrality.

..........

Abhisit gives no sign of folding.

Nor should he.

from Webfact

"Gen Prayuth, tipped to become army commander-in-chief in October upon the compulsory retirement of the current army chief, said he could not tolerate any longer as the 'Red Shirt' people break the law. He vowed to adopt every measure to bring back peace to the country as soon as possible. (TNA)"

I am afraid the Falcons have the majority above the doves... Peace seems not on the agenda

Keeping a functional civil government is only in the country's best interest. If the government caves immediately then out come the yellows, then the reds, then the yellows. then the reds......

According to a Poll published in a Website we cannot named 92% of Thais people put PEACE as the first priority.

I expect that a Government of National Unity will take over next week in order to clean the deck of this successions of Coups, dismisses of PM (some under the funny pretext cooking in a TV show), all this successions of events are a stain on the credibility of Abhisit and throws a doubt on his legitimacy (wrongly or truly, it is not the question- It is an endless debate). On the other side, you have a Northern population who is over-exploited and needs urgent measures. I do agree with some of you that Thaksin must not come back and I will be on your side if it happens.

Urgently the Thai system needs amendments, those amendments have to be endorsed by the Parliament which can be dissolved only when the amendments to Charter have been implemented. Then, Elections can be set up. How long it will take? We have to be serious, to consider the time to pass the amendments through the parliament and to set up the Elections. To throw figures without reality is meaningless. It has to be discussed by Responsible and experiienced People. I hope -I repeat myself- that the 4 Ex PMs (Anand, Chavalit,Banharm and Chuan Leekpai) will arrive to set a proposal and the roadmap to Elections.

One Personnality above any Parties must manage this period in order to re-establish Peace and confidence between Thais to overpass this current division. Abhisit because he is too much engaged on one side cannot embody this third way. but he can come back in few months through the elections.

This is my hope.

A third way, a Charter corrected of its major flaws, Peace and Harmony in Thailand.

I agree with your suggestions that a group of men of good will and trust need to meet and define an solution for this problem.

I don't restrict the list to any specific names, only men of good will and trust. This elimanted mr. Abhisit and the commanding generals who killed the Thai citizens. Their fate should ultimately be prison after a legitimate investigation and fair trials.

I disagree with you about delaying an election until this faulty government make changes. They could never be trusted to do anything other than feather their bed and how can any one trust someone who changes the agreement made at Thaicom and proposes 9 months to perform a a 1 month job of an election. Thailand is at least as good as the UK.

Stop all these silly excuses andf get on with a legitimate election.

I'm confused. Earlier I saw on TV news a report that the military said they were not shooting at other Thais. When confronted with TV footage showing weapons being fire parallel to the ground, they story changed. Then it was they only fired rubber bullets at Thais. They had real bullets were firing into the air. Now on the closed new forum I The Nation saying the government is saying that they will prove the government did not use live rounds.

It can't be all of that. They either did or did not use live rounds. If they shot rubber bullets at Thais and live round into the air then they used live rounds. Please pick one story and stay with it.

Otherwise you sound like Baghdad Bob.

Let's don't lose site of the fact the government and opposition need to negotiate to resolve this problem for the good of Thailand.

It's time for some trusted person from the government should figure out the real amount of time it takes to hold an election and then work with a trusted opposition negotiator get the process started. No more of the hardline 9 month timeframe. It should be somewhere around a month timeframe. Put these stubborn politicians ou to pasture.

Honestly... I've read several editorials and articles pleading for the red-shirts and government to stop fighting because "We are all Thais".

Is that really necessary? Is that the real solution, or merely a cry for help?

The real TEMPORARY solution is for Abhisit to resign. I know it might not help long term, but he is the epicenter of violence now. We need to stop the blood flow now, we need to do something practical.

Asking Thaksin to stop is like asking a wild boar to think..... that route is useless....telling Thais to stop killing each other because "we are all Thais" works as well as a water pistol at the Chicago Fire.

Abhisit, you must resign.

This is not Abhisits' fault so why should he resign? As far as I can see, he is the only one (or at least one of the few people) who is still thinking clearly. No other government in the world would have tolerated protests for such a long period of time. I think he is doing a good job under the circumstances.

How about I try to add a little context. The honorable US patroit General Honore told his soldiers who pointed their weapons toward other US citizens that they would be court martialed if they ever pointed their weapon at a US citizen again.

Abhisit to his Generals to fire at other Thais and the Generals told their soldiers to fire at other Thais.

That sounds like a whole lot of reason to me.

khunjamespittman

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together

.

Khunjamessptittman

Congratulations

Your rhetoric is changing, perhaps there may be some sanity, compassion and indeed common sense creeping into some minds at last.

Let's see if the message spreads to the top of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership thus stopping the needless loss of lives on all sides in the pursuit of one persons money and personal megalomania aims

Please refrain from distorting what I said. I have been consistent from the beginning and I see that you see insist on calling people names. Please stop.

From the beginning I have saidd that a 9 month timeframe until an election is ridiculous and the rationale given is plain crap. I have continuously said the correct timefame is in the range of 1 month. I have also said that 15 day is probably to short for the mechanics (organizing, ballot printing, distribution).

I have continuously said that both sides need to back off to a realistic timeframe and men of trust and good will should start to negotiate the scheduling. There is no possibility for a negotiation if people of good will don't look for common ground and not differences. The governments uses of soldiers was an national disgrace and I believe Abhisit use as has no value since he overode th Thaicom agreemane and orderes his Generals to order their soldiers to fire weapons at other Thai citizens.

If you want to spin then please spin someone else and please stop quoting me out of context.

Let me say again this is the exact position I have maintained from the beginning.

I hope that both the government and the opposition will find men of good will defuse this problem.

Interesting how most people are behaving as if it's all over by now. The government has shown its mighty military power and defended democracy and the lesson should have been that the anarchists cannot get away with their crimes. As if it were as simple as that...

What happened is that the army tried to restore order. The result is that by now already 18 people are dead and more than 800 injured - the army retreated but the Reds Shirts are still occupying Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong - anything but order is restored. The only tangible result of that operation might be that now both parties agreed to talk again.

If the level of pressure and violence was not enough to restore order how many lives will be lost once the army increases pressure to finally clear Phan Fah and Ratchaprasong? Is that the only solution?

Give peace a chance again and let's hope that the talks will finally end in an acceptable compromise.

I agree. For weeks now radicals have been calling people they don't even know vile names. There has been talk about winners and losers. There have been no winners. Many families have lost loved ones and many others have been injured. I hardly call that winning.

Forgetting the disgrace of politicians and Generals using soldiers to fire at other Thais, It has to stop and negotiations must start.

Neither side can be stubborn. Both have to give. It is ridiculous to demand 9 months when the rest of the world knows it only take a couple months at the very extreme. The opposition knows also that the mechanics of holding a national election takes more that 15 days. Why don't persons of good will from the government and the opposition begin negotiations to define the framework for a dissolution and election determining exactly how much time is required for the mechanics of an election. Then go to their respective groups and convince them that's the best that both sides can achieve.

I, for one, am tired of hearing propaganda and spin everyday and think it is time for all people to check thir egos and work together.

When I watched the attack on the opposition demonstrators by the soldiers, I recalled when the US National Guard General arrived in New Orleans with the National Guard soldiers after the hurricane disaster. The National Guard is usually is commanded in each of the states by the Govenors. By this time the Govenor had authorized the activation of the National Guard into the US Army.

The soldiers came riding in on trucks with their weapons pointed outward.

General Honore saw that immediately stopped the trucks and ordered the soldiers to point their guns at the ground and never again point them at an American. If they did they were told that they could face a courts martial (a military tiral). That was the sign of a General who knows that a national Army is to protect the country and its people, not to fight its people.

Unfortunately what we saw yesterday was politicians who chose to order Thai soldiers to fire their guns at other Thai citizens.

We also saw Thai military leaders who, unlike General Honore in New Orleans, ordered their subordinates to fire their weapons at other Thais. It was a disgraceful day for country of Thailand.

It was a dark day for a great country. The fact that soldiers that are supposed to protect the country and its people were ordered fire the guns at other Thais and to trample their fellow Thais ( family, friends, and neighbors) by a politician trying to hold on his power by disenfranchising a segment of the population who disagrees with the way the sitting government came to power without giving the poor, in fact all Thais and opportunity to elect the government they want to represent them and the way they are being treated and are asking for redress of the situation by holding an early independently monitored national election so their will can be voiced with their votes.

We were close to a solution before yesterday when the politicians chose to order the Thai soldiers to take down the opposition using guns.

The way out of this is to have new men of good will in the government to address the problems the the opposition by calling for an early national election with a realistic time schedule for disolving the Parliment and holding an internationally monitored national election (stop demanding a silly 9 month schedule). The opposition should also signal their willingness to agree on a schedule that based on the ability to hold the national referendum. The negotiation then should proceed the mechanics of holding the election. The time for excuses and delays is over.

surely they are selling more guns and ammunition to the thai army right now, same as the UK government and armament companies - the more war around the world the more money they are making.

they do regret what happened in bangkok, because they are responsible for leaking tapped thaksin phone calls to the thai government about alleged planned assassinations and violence a month ago - that's why protesters were marching to the usa and uk embassies

Look! I don't know if it happened or not, but What I know with certainty is if it did happen you would not have any way of gaining access to the information. Repeating rumors before is dangerous for everybody.

It does no good to spread rumors. If you have a "source" please tell us so we can evaluate its credibility and report the leak to intelligence personnel if it is verified.