happydreamer

Longwood, some of what you say has a lot of merit. But this argument that it's not tangible and doesn't exist doesn't hold a lot of water in a digital realm. All we have in a digital realm are representations of things. Files on your computer...dont exist. Representations of them do, you can print one but thats relatively intangible. If your hard drive crashes you can't open it up and take out the files. You can "move" them...but what are you really moving? A bunch of 1s and 0s and hoping that they all make it to their new destination otherwise...the somewhat tangible has evaporated into ether. Wi-Fi..isn't tangible. You can't hold it, touch it, feel it, etc. But you can see the output of it. You use it every day. Fiber optic cable is tangible...but it's merely the vessel that delivers electronic impulses that are assembled through 7 layers of topology (otherwise known as the OSI model) starting at that little black box called a router and ending at your computer screen. As a matter of fact, pretty much anything that has to do with the digital realm, including numbers themselves, are intangible. You can't own a number nine. You can own nine candles, nine rocks, nine pork bellies, or nine pesos. But the actual number nine is about abstract as anything else. If you were to show an alien the number nine...what would you show them? C'mon man...you make some good points but seriously...just concede a little bit and try to see past years of doing things one way. Be open to a world of new possibilities and new ways of doing things. With quantum computing and everything that has emerged in tech within the past 10-15 years and how small the world has gotten, is it too far-fetched to believe we're at the dawn of a new era? Be excited man. Have hope. If currency didn't evolve we'd still be using rocks to pay for stuff ????

We're flying this morning boys. Enjoy for the next hour ????

I don't know that the dollar is history, or that I want it to be. However alternative forms of currency are definitely intriguing.

Just adding that Ebay is set to accept Crypto starting in March.

Ive done well in the past with Vanguard and Blackrock as my basis for the majority of investments. For those I just let em run and adjust per sector depending on whats hot at the time. In 2020 tech was on fire so I adjusted and earned. Now it's energy. Not so concerned with the investment so much anymore. Trading is making me a decent side hustle, SPY puts as of late. I hate betting against the market but right now it seems the only way to make money trading. Crypto is crypto...its a speculation and something Im interested in the same way I used to be interested in gold and silver.

Just chill dude...it'll bounce and come back. Might take a hot minute but you'll be ok. All markets are difficult to earn in right now. Guys are scalping sh!t at bell every morning because the major indices are al over the place. No predictability and no trends. And everything except energy is bearish right now

I kinda started learning investing / trading like I learned everything else in life by trial and fire and by doing.....having no formal education stuff like this fills in the blanks and provides a good foundation fr future investments and trades.

A few weeks before I took my first payout in 2017. Shoulda HODL'd.

Good explanation. And people buying stocks on projected earnings for a company? Speculation too?

Was never an expert, just an adopter and enthusiast. I personally don't stake or lend because I don't completely understand it....hence "supposedly". I also don't trade crypto options or futures or use leverage because I don't understand how it works even though I've been trading options and futures on the NYSE for the past three years.. I keep my assets in cold storage (Nano X) and mitigate risk along the way. To each their own. Everyone here is entitled to that. Ive made good dough off it over the past 8 -9 years...I believe in it, I believe in it's uses, I like the idea of blockchain technologies, and I see the writing on the wall as far as tech and energy companies buying into it. My strategies are unconventional in every aspect of life and somehow Im here, making gains off my business, investing, and trading. The biggest loss financially in life was living off my savings for 5 years while I traveled the world and figured out what came next. None of my loses have ever come from bad investments...just from spending.....and buying cars when I was a young man in my 20s and 30s Sh!t I even made money off that whole Gamestop fiasco. If it's not for you its not for you. Real estate isn't for me, people have made a mint off of it. Doesn't mean its not real or its a sham. Pravda ...good luck dude. Let us know how it plays out for ya

Good perspective and breakdown. Much appreciated

Thats a good point on rents. I never considered that, probably because I wouldn't want to rent a property. Thats just me though. Supposedly, the interest is paid for staking (loaning as you referred to) because your assets (read as crypto) contribute to blockchain and provide processing power for transactions to occur. The interest thats being paid (crypto) is the by-product of more transactions completing blocks on the blockchain. I don't know what your background is on understanding how blockchain works so I'm not sure if thats going to make sense or not. As I mentioned before, not all crypto is meant to be used as currency, however part of the value of it is it's contributions to the network as a whole, so there is the intrinsic value within it's network, the same way other assets have intrinsic value within their given markets separate from supply and demand. (intrinsic) I think for the most part this is where it falls apart for non technical people because this is very abstract to understand Hope this makes sense.

Good points. Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, by this logic investors in real estate are included in the greater fool theory? Real estate in and of itself doesn't own anything and it doesn't produce anything. It incurs expenses throughout it's debt ownership and you pay taxes on it along the way. Unless you outrightly hold the deed to a piece of property then all you actually own is the debt to it. And at the end of the interest bearing loan terms, you may, or may not get back what you originally paid for said asset, depending on what anyone within that market is willing pay for it. And finally , buyers in the real estate market are basing their perceptions of property value on historical and trending data. Am I understanding and applying the theory correctly? Not being sarcastic, just trying to understand a point of view that seems a bit oversimplified....

Appreciate your feedback and your position on the topic. You're right in that Crypto is abstract. A lot of things dealing with complex technology are like that. I wish I had a bitcoin for every time I tried to explain The Cloud to folks with a limited technical background. It goes like this.... "Where are my files at if they're not on my computer?" They're in the cloud. "Where's the cloud?" The cloud isn't a thing you can see. Well it is a thing...but you can't really see it....you just see your files. "So they ARE on my computer?" No, you use your computer to access your allocated space on the cloud. "So, why can't I see the cloud if it's a thing?" And this goes on for a very long time. It's abstract. I get it. And it's difficult to grasp if you're not somewhat of a techy person. Thats what explaining crypto is like to those with a limited understanding of the technology that surrounds it . Im not trying to insult you either....please excuse me if it sounds like that. Crypto...as a broad sweeping term encompasses an entire gamut, some of which is used as currency, some of which is used as fuel for projects and development some of which is used as plain ol digital currency. Stable coins are this, 1:1 digital assets that a re equal in value to a USD. Crypto does make money but not in a conventional understanding. Take ETH for example. ETH (Ethereum) is a platform of decentralized applications. So think of an app, that runs on a computer or a phone or thats part of a network of other apps that validate transactions across it's network. This network full of apps has the intrinsic value of the apps and services that run on it. ETH is just a reward thats given to components that participate on that network to validate the transactions. So in that sense...the value is in the network itself. Note that this is a stark contrast to Bitcoin which is solely meant to be used as currency. Here's a quick read that goes a bit into some of the stuff that I don't want to clutter my response with https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ethereum.asp To to speak to your point about perceived value...there's a finite number of bitcoins that can be produced. It's not like paper money that can be printed by institutions when there's the perception that there's not enough. Wanna talk about inflated value? I think they actually named it...thats right......Inflation Your position is well founded and is a good guiding principle for those wishing to understand investing at it's very core. However, investing in crypto is a lot more than the FOMO effect. The tangible value is the value of the projects it fuels, supports, computes and executes. Within the next year or so you will certainly see the large cap tech giants adding their 2 bits to the blockchain with tokenized applications. Facebook's Meta is designed based on this. Blockchain is here to stay...and crypto is just the tip of the iceberg Cheers

You're about 10 years early with the dot com boom sir. The internet didn't become widespread enough for a boom until the mid 90s. Bubbles happen with everything, right after dot com popped we had good ol real estate hot on its tail. "You're gonna get priced out , you gotta get in now." Thanks 2008 for fixing that for everyone. I think the crypto bubble popped already. The rates at which it was growing last year had all the signs of a bubble. It's in a consolidation phase now which can go either way although I do believe that with the higher regulations surrounding it you will see less market fluctuation and more stabilization. People who bought in at 60k may not see gains for a long time if ever. However to think that it's going to lose it's entire value because you don't understand blockchain and the intrinsic value of cryptocurrency and it's ecosystem is just naive. Just like trees, BTC doesn't grow in the sky...it's generated by converting energy (read as oil) into hashing power of which BTC is a by-product. So to your point of investing in a company that makes a tangible product, it may be worth researching who is manufacturing the processors and the energy supplies that the mining facilities use. Keyword...ConocoPhillips. You're welcome.

This is really good input and I respect your position on it. I see where you're coming from and the points you make about interest are spot on. I'm comfortable with the level of risk associated at this point as the interest is really kinda free money. On other credit cards I'd be collecting airline miles or points but since no one is traveling now thats useless to me and this is a better value given the fact that I use the card as my daily spend. Although this being said...I was also the guy who was comfortable with the risks associated with bungee jumping and skydiving while I lived in Falang-land and I also was comfortable with the risks associated with holding a gold / silver IRA from 2008-2015. I used to bet on sports, and I quit a 6 figure corporate job to travel professionally as a fashion photographer in 2015. So in the big picture collecting interest on a crypto credit card is the least of what I've risked in life. To be transparent my interest earning account is through a company I've done pretty extensive research on. One of their investors is Fidelity and their custodian is Gemini Trust who's regulated by New York Dept of Finance. I'm actually a proponent of crypto regulation. I want to see it widely used and developed. Technology is a passion of mine and to me crypto, the tech behind it, and the possibilities of it are really exciting. Thanks for the input, I really do appreciate it. I always enjoy chatting with the guys who were lifers in the money game. They have the best stories. The world was such a different place then, but some things remain the same. Take Care Walker ????

I have no degrees. I have a high school education that I completed in 1993. Why wouldn't I continue to work? I enjoy tech and I enjoy consulting and getting paid for what I've spent years learning and building. How do you figure on tens of millions off of a handful of BTC at 14K? And for the record...I didn't "buy" bitcoin early. I mined it. Do you know what ASIC miners are? You're making money trading and investing right now? Really? Right before a recession? Ok, bro. Buddha bless

He's got the chart upside down dude. LOL.

I own a tech consulting company that specializes in web design and designing cloud-based solutions and infrastructure for fintech, insure tech, and global wealth mangers. You're missing my point completely on whats driving the current trend. 400% returns. Impressive. What made you that money? Ive been trading options and futures for 3 years. Early bitcoin adopter, 2013, 2 ASIC miners attached to laptop in a closet hashing on Slushpool when it was $80/ Unit. Cashed out a handful in 2017 when it topped 17K, sold at 14K, financed two years in Asia, traveled, traded, took photos, made Vogue, started a consulting business. So...ya.

It's probably best for you.

No ones talking about bonds and gold right now. We're talking about the current situation and the direct correlation of the crypto market to the stock market at the moment in particular the energy sector. Im curious to know what your background in finance is?

You honestly have no idea how this all works. There's large cap companies invested in it. What more do you need to know about how it's value is calculated. It's tied directly to market action. For clues on how it'll react...watch the major global indices

How was their bank account terminated when they tried to convert BTC into it? Crypto doesn't go into a bank. Its bought and sold on exchanges. Banks are eliminated in the process. Thats what decentralized finance is about. Unless you mean it was terminated when they tried to deposit the fiat into a bank account and they couldn't provide records from where it came. ya..red flag

The only way for there to be any sort of recognizable incentives or for it to be used as a means of currency is through regulation. There is quite a bit of control over it now. Ive been into BTC since 2013 and compared to those days, this is very regulated. Thats how things like interest and loans are able to be offered. Regardless, there's still a large majority that doesn't trust the rules and laws that govern it. Granted it's a volatile investment, but that doesn't necessarily equate to it being a scam or not paying out to it's holders whats due to them. I'm taxed on it...I'd therefore expect it to be available to me in it's advertised forms unless there's something I missed while reading and studying (key words here reading and studying) the terms of agreement surrounding the institutions acting as custodians. Like I mentioned in a previous post, do your own research and mitigate risk according to your personal goals and comfort levels. For many it's still way too risky because of it's volatility. However as I've pointed out several times in this thread crypto is highly tied to the stock market now and it has and I believe will become even more predictable as time moves on.

There most certainly is....some of it as high as 8% on stablecoins. Im earning 8% on GUSD, 5% on ETH, 4.5% on BTC, and 3.5% on LTC . Also earning rewards (in crypto currency of my choice) based on monthly spending at a rate of 1.5% - 3.5% that go directly into crypto interest earning account. Then there's staking which I think @Neeanam can explain better than me.