Atlantis

I don't even like to use "anti-vax" anymore. Not on here anyway. On forums like these, that term is bandied around so casually that it's almost lost its meaning. And the sad thing is, this abuse has so blatantly been perpetrated for the sake of their egos and to cover-up their own poor argumentation, and even to get cheap, ignorant "likes". An infamous one that comes to mind was the thread headlined 84 or (86%) of deaths being among the vaccinated that turns out to be a near useless statistic after a few seconds of reading.

Hi GrandPapillon, I think I get your general philosophical point but you can bet 1000 Baht many people on this forum will take the opportunity to jump on the generality of your statement with the worst of intentions. Let's see how they react though...

Listen, it is not my intention to trigger/ troll you, and so don't take my following comment as an attempt to rub salt in the wound: The very thread was about forced vaccinations. Mandates, coercion, force, okay? Besides the 30-or so pages of back-and-forth on this topic was clearly in response to others who had said people who don't want the vaccines should be forced to get them. Which IMO, is absurd, for so so many reasons. Take your faux outrage home with you. You are not going to distract from the painfully embarrassing fact that those who shout "misinformation!" the loudest are often the one's who have a double-standard for themselves.

Hello Chomper Thank you for your often long and detailed posts, often with decent sources. I note that you're one of the less hysterical people on here and I've read from beginning to end a few of your very long exchanges with other posters. Your post above is very problematic and I'm glad that you included: This last part in bold is the blind spot of so many people all-too-happy to screech "misinformation!" "conspiracy theorist!". More often than not, it is an issue of the reasoning around facts fairly uncontroversial and neutral facts, and the language used, rather than any false underlying statistics or factoid. We're all prone to it, including me, and you. I would point others to your mega back-and-fro with another user (begins with T) on a recent tread about mandatory vaccination. But the biggest blind spot of those criticizing misinformation online is that so many people forget that misinformation, as it it properly defined, cuts both ways. Yes the most prominent examples may come from easily verifiable junk - but that is no excuse to conveniently abuse that term, misinformation, to actually refer to "anything that is novel to me", "an interpretation that I think is silly" or simply, as you imply, any view that you judge to be based on "misinformation". Misinformation from reputable press outlets and those in positions of power are huge part of the problem. But to you, misinformation can only ever come 'in support of' those with anything negative to say about the status quo in any way. Knee-jerk reaction: "misinformation".

Salerno, you probably should learn the difference between Disinformation and Misinformation. Both are bad, but are completely different in nature and intent. You and so many others on here casually switch between the two. It betrays a very shallow understanding of what is actually going on in the breakdown of information dissemination. Misinformation goes both ways. Some sources are considerably worse than others.

I think I know the post you are referring to thank you for reminding me to give him a trophy emoticon right now; his underappreciated sarcasm was only spoiled by his explanation a short while after. WhiteBuffalo, its a little ironic how you are almost deliberately misconstruing (I'm going to be kind and presume you're not that dumb) mockery and contempt for pro-mandate folk when the context was all too clear to see. Misinformation cuts both ways, and you may be a bigger part of the problem than you realize.

YouTube Channels: Daniel LaBelle - the most intense, thought-provoking content known to mankind. https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielLaBelle DUST - short but decent sci-fi movies when you just don't have the time or patience to watch a full-length https://www.youtube.com/c/watchdust Websites: Only one unfortunately. Ever since I subscribed to aseannow.com, my browser automatically directs me to it no matter what I try. Tried unsubscribing from the newsletter, but all that happened was an extra quick load of the homepage + auto login to the website. I tried complaining but that just blue-screened my PC for three days.

I think you probably need to email [email protected] Even then, I'm not sure if they'd be willing to delete your details (for cost or commercial reasons?) Would be nice to hear back from any Admin staff if OP does get his away.

No, Danderman123. People who pretend to know what they're talking about get it exactly the wrong way round. Constant, open dissent and debate is what makes science, science. There's no place for frigging censorship in scientific debate. There's no room in the scientific method for personality smears, ignorant cries of "misinformation!", bone-headed cancel culture, willful misrepresentation in the media, willful conflation of political decisions and policy with raw data. As for what you claim to be the medical consensus I'd refer you to a post by Danderman123 above unironically asking why Doctors shouldn't be reminded "not to spread misinformation" during a pandemic.

Look back at the original meaningless article and headline, and remind yourself of the triumphantly innumerate response of "Anti-vaxxers are you listening!!!" patman30 is directly responding to the confident ignorance of people who apparently don't understand how percentages work.

Lol, you mean the poster should consider being forced to make a decision himself rather than demanding hundreds and thousands of others, whose individual circumstances he does not have a clue about listen to his demands for vaccination? Come on now! How unreasonable. Have you seen some of the people on this forum? Toxic combination of painfully ill-informed and over-confident on the correct behavior of others.

https://mb.com.ph/2021/09/13/thailand-administers-over-40-million-doses-of-covid-19-vaccines/ Nearly 40 percent of the country’s population have received their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, while 18 percent have been fully vaccinated, data from the Center for COVID-19 Administration (CCSA) showed. So let me get this straight: OP news story suggests around 9% of deaths are from double-vaxxed. Out of 18 percent of the population. Assuming there has been ZERO under-counting by this government. Utterly. Underwhelming. And you jump in with "Anti-vaxxers, are you listening?" Well I sure as <deleted> hope not as you'd only be encouraging them with figures like these - together with a boatload of vaccine skeptics and undecideds. And over 30 people on this forum gave positive feedback to this mindless populist drivel? If you actually want to help the vaccine drive, please think before you post and come across as mindless sheep. How <deleted> sad.

Richard, thank you for your detailed and patient response. If more people responded like this, I'm sure that many on-the-fence skeptics would go ahead and take one of the vaccines. Just a couple of points. I see these often and it seems people don't quite get the point of the other side. 1. It is often the lazy, sensationalist media trying to stir up angst among viewers who love to report certain groups as thinking Covid-19 isless serious than the cold (or more commonly the flu). No, a much more accurate sentiment would be the correct belief that, on a statistical basis, certain demographic groups do in fact experience very mild symptoms or are virtually asymptomatic. This is too often deliberately misconstrued as "Covid = Cold", probably as a strawman tactic. 2. I don't think the numbers you cite yourself form a persuasive argument for forcing every single school kid to get vaxxed. Even with the recent acceleration in the spread of the Delta variant, school-age children - especially younger ones are extremely unlikely to suffer from serious consequences. The arguments for forcibly vaccinating them all revolves around an incoherent mish-mash of protecting adults and "just in case" for youngsters. Except you're chasing for minute upside gains with virtually unknown downside risks - even in the short-run. Vaccine supplies are limited - prioritize offline classroom teachers and those living in close-quarters with school-age children, even giving them boosters when there's enough.

At the risk of being pranked, I'll take your post seriously... 2. Championship Point = the point that will win the player the entire tournament (the US Open) 3. BP = Break Point, refers to the when your are serving in the game and you are one point away from losing that game (being "broken") e.g. down 30-40 ... since the server usually has the advantage.

cclub75: I feel for you. I really do. You made a genuine attempt to answer a goading question by a poster who (apparently) couldn't even think of one obvious answer to "Why now". "Almost all of us were vaccinated as children. Why such a Fight now? Bizarre. " Instead of realizing his blatantly embarrassing oversight, he tries to pivot immediately because - you know - only *he* is aware we're in the middle of a pandemic. (Please everyone! quickly forget his silly question you just answered!). There's no point in engaging with such dug-in narrow-minded posters. He has zero interest in actually asking questions and learning. It can't ever be about downside risks you see - unless, of course, its the downsides of not getting the vaccine. There's too many of these sycophantic sheep online who are incapable of synthesizing any data or analysis, no matter how obvious, that undermines their unshakeable worldview. So confident in their pronouncements that they feel entitled to opine on what newly developed drugs should be forced onto your children.

Lurker, you need to take into account the absolute number of people who have been been vaccinated (larger base). So that 536 would look more like 2000 if you adjusted for the relative population sizes (4x) HST, a mere halving of a low death rate when concentrating on the over-50s is still pretty pathetic. It's a badly written article, and giving just one aggregate 546 figure for under-50s is just negligent or willfully deceptive. By itself, it adds no extra information about whether young healthy adults should be taking getting vaccinated or not.

Robblok: what on earth are you talking about? 1. Where are his other posts? Is there a function on here that I haven't found yet - I see he has posted just about this topic. 2. Do you know the difference between anti-vaccine mandate for Covid-19 and outright anti-vaccine for everything?

Jesus. Stop it. This is far too nuanced and subtle for this forum.

"OP has been mislead to think root canals are usually painful" - What? No Sheryl, not even close. Try again. Not unless OP has a deleted a series of posts that are now not visible to me. As it is clearly visible to everyone, OP merely said: "Well that has made up my mind as I don't like bad experiences, thanks. " Don't conflate people making their own choices with people being 'misled' when they make one of two binary choices that doesn't fit with your own implied advice. You have no idea on his how much risk he is willing to take, his pain tolerance or anything else for that matter. Saying it went okay for you is almost useless if what he really cares about is avoiding a total <deleted>-up when he clearly has alternatives. I would presume that people would know that most medical procedures are just fine. Not everyone is aware of the very real and unpleasant downsides of when procedures don't 'go well' i.e. horrific, yes, horrific, pain.

Hi OP, you may* have dodged a bullet. *I choose my model verb carefully lest it attract unwanted attention from the statistics police. My (very experienced and well-known) dentist over-sold it just a little when he continually promised during consultation that everything will be okay, he would be gentle etc. It wasn't until just before the first surgery that he quickly and nonchalantly mentioned "over 80%" of people don't have any problems, when I very clearly communicated to him that my personal decision regarding root-canal vs. extraction was very much based on likelihood of problems. The initial multiple injections into the gum below the molar wasn't pleasant but hardly a problem. Most of the drilling wasn't a problem. The problem came with 'mechanical cleaning' and when a piece of metal is inserted right through into the root of the tooth. You can literally feel nerves being pulled out. It mattered ZERO that he commented I had "sensitive" this and that. It mattered nothing that he hypothesized that it was something to do with the pH (acidity) affecting the anesthetic. For some bizarre reason, he intimated that most of the ordeal was over / the nerves were gone after the first visit. When the less frequent but nevertheless fugging intense pain happened the second time, he bizarrely blamed it on the "trauma" of the first time i.e. should have waited longer between the first and second visit that the clinic had scheduled. Just Brilliant. TBF, It's quite naive of me to put so much trust into a medical professional, but equally foolish of me not to have done a little research online beforehand. A post like Tanomazu's (had I been fortunate to have seen it) including the links would have easily persuaded me to go with the much cheaper and straight-forward extraction. Some of the vivid descriptions in the link were written as if someone had read my mind. Hope your extraction goes well.

"world-wide the number of successful root canal treatments far outnumber the problem cases." You know that's kinda funny to read. I somehow doubt my dentist will be entering the details of discomfort into a Global Database of Root Canals, assuming I actually follow through with the third and final dose of torture. But hey, I'll feel so much better knowing that some other people somewhere else in the world didn't go through this unnecessary experience.

"You can post as many negative comments as you like" - Well he shouldn't even HAVE TO should he? The very fact that such occurrences do happen, and often enough for a fellow poster to see and comment on within a short time seems to be valuable in of itself. How do you even presume to know that the OP was already aware that root canals can be so horrifically painful? - especially when he has valid alternatives. -----But, but, but, MOST of the time, it doesn't feel like someone is drilling straight onto your nerve?----- Oh okay then Doc, thank you so much for that. Shame I can't translate that claimed statistic into an effective anesthetic.

Thank you for sharing. And I would note that nowhere did you try to claim that your experience is the most common. Those commenters who've never felt the kind of pain that you and others have felt really need to think twice before downplaying your experiences. One horrific experience does not and should not hold the same weight as many more supposedly "usual" experiences. That's not how it works. It's incredible that this even needs to be said.