vermin on arrival

Extremely violent? How many drive-by shootings do they average per day? How about car-jackings? Interesting you advise going there at night, which implies that they must not be so bad during the day. If that is the case it tells me right off the bat that they can't be anywhere near as bad as the areas I mentioned in my post. Without any stats to back it up I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Even the really bad neighborhoods in the states can be walked about in the daytime. When I was younger and still lived in the States(NYC), my work took me to Harlem, the South Bronx and ,yipes, the worst place I've ever been to, East New York. I went in the daytime, and eveytime this white boy had no problem. It was when the sun went down that you needed to make yourself scarce.

You can DIE for embarrassing someone or making them feel insulted! The one thing I try to avoid AT ALL COSTS in this country is to embarass a Thai guy that is with his friends

Yes, Damien, I too would do anything in my power to avoid this. I think the results would be disastrous.

My impression is that there is less casual violence than you might get in the US, but much more serious violence over politics and business. However, ColPyat does make a good point when mentioning the nationmaster statistics on violence. If these stats are in fact true, it does paint a pretty bad picture of the levels of violence here.

If you are around some of these strong men when they are drinking their whiskey or lao kaao, however, you might find yourself embroiled in something very bad if you don't mind your p's and q's. I would make it a point to make myself scarce if they were deep in their cups. Unfortunately, it seems that they are drinking most every night. At least, that was how it was on my soi.

gburns,

I think I wouldn't want to get into a pub fight in Britain either. I missed some of the more offensive posts which were deleted by the mods. Please don't paint mine with the same brush.

Just because you chose to live somewhere doesn't mean you have to like everything, does it?

gburns,

To say that it is more prevalent here is not to stereotype. Are you saying that making any kind of generalization about how things happen is wrong?

I don't think that the many people who are disagreeing with you are doing it based on this one incident. Most of the people who are making these comments have lived in Thailand for a great deal of time. It is not based on the fact that we are superior "farangs"; it is based on our observations and contact with Thais or other long term expats. This is not a knee jerk reaction to one incident.

I also feel much safer walking in Bangkok than I would in my home town of NYC(to be honest after so many years abroad the place gives me bad vibes), that doesn't invalidate what has been said about how violence is when it occurs here, which is certainly much more frequent than the powers that be want foreigners to know. I make it a point to avoid any conflict here because I know how badly it will turn out for me. This does not mean that the people who are pointing this out think that everything is best in the west. Now who is the one jumping to conclusions?

I live in BKK so for me getting on plane is only what I do when I'm going back to the US to visit my parents or when I'm coming home. Please spare me reading another post telling people who notice something that they find disagreeable about Thailand should go home. I'm just as sick about reading posts such as this.

For one who is criticizing others for acting "superior", you sure seem to take similar tone in your posts on this thread. It is true that I haven't taken note of any prior posting pattern of yours, and was not blanket criticizing everything you said, but I do really disagree with your viewpoint on this.

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Yes, it happens elsewhere, but it doesn't take too much time observing events in the land of smiles to realize that this pattern of violence is indeed more prevalent here.

I don't understand why people seem to bend over backwards to say that Thailand is just like everywhere else in the world when it in fact is not. Asia and the west are different. Then, within these groups their are local patterns of behavior which set that culture's behavior apart from another's. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad, and sometimes it just is. To deny these differences seems silly.

I think its just a defence mechanismamong some posters who have to defend all things Thai right or wrong and if something bad happens immediately reach for the but it hapens elsewhere button.

Just discussing this with Thai colleagues - well travelled Thai colleagues - guess what they say?

They do not try to deny it and defend it or blame the victim!

Of course, Prakanong. I would expect them to confirm what you and many other posters have been saying. It's for a very simple reason-because what you are saying is true.

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Yes, it happens elsewhere, but it doesn't take too much time observing events in the land of smiles to realize that this pattern of violence is indeed more prevalent here.

I don't understand why people seem to bend over backwards to say that Thailand is just like everywhere else in the world when it in fact is not. Asia and the west are different. Then, within these groups their are local patterns of behavior which set that culture's behavior apart from another's. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad, and sometimes it just is. To deny these differences seems silly.

ColPyat,

Good to see you posting again. Where you been?

Yes, but his comments about the new law concerning the Burmese in Phang Nga aren't discussed in that thread. Maybe this post should have its title changed.

Sounds pretty repugnant, but sadly, it is not very surprising at all.

Sbk,

Again, as I said before there is mob violence everywhere, but I believe it is much more prevalent here(and in other more group oriented asian societies) than in the west. I really think that you are downplaying this too much. I understand that you are trying to provide some balance.

Someone brought up the Rodney King beating before where 5 cops got nailed beating up an african american(by a bystander with a hidden video camera). Yes, it happened, but did the cops then go to the hospital and beat him up some more afterwards? Those cops also all ended up in the middle of a s*** storm.

Maybe the 3 British tourists did something bad, but 30 vs 3 is a bit much, don't you think? I'm really surprised that your Thai paper's report was so different from the one posted by mid. A cracked skull is certainly not a minor injury. Why do you think that is the case?

Mob beatings can happen anywhere, but anyone who thinks he will get into a one on one fight here is deluding himself. You will find yourself under a pile of Thai men, kicking the c#$@ out of you. I believe this would be the case in other more group oriented cultures as well, such as Korea.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to offer than a broad generalization. Apologies, sbk. It would be nice if someone were to come up with a translation of one of the Thai newspaper articles.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I've lived here for 10 years, but I would never rate it so highly.

We never appreciate what we have

That may be true, but I've seen this city decline in many ways over the past decade. The main way in which it has improved is in the introduction of the skytrain and MTR, and better internet service. I believe it has declined in every other way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I’m with Mid, this is a fairly sinister situation creeping up here. Sonthi uses military power to overthrow the government, just prior to an election. He then has the courts disqualify the leaders of the countries most popular party. Then he has adjusts the rules of government to include his appointed military officials as voting members in parliament. And now he is maneuvering to become the legitimately elected leader. Talk about setting the rules of the game. This guy is smart and once he’s in the election, I have no doubt it will roll his direction, he knows how to stack the deck.

This dictatorship may take decades to fall.

Yeah, this is exactly the take you should have on it if Sonthi were to run and absolutely why it would be a travesty if he did.

I might have this wrong, but I believe that TRT meant that they welcome the General into the race, so they can enjoy watching him being eviscerated by all the citizens who will not be amused that he wants to hang on to power.

That would make more sense wouldn't it, and that was what I was expecting them to say. Maybe the person who wrote the article did not specify things correctly. The alternative just seems too absurd.

Anyway who has lived in BKK would find it stange for the city to be listed as one of the world's top cities. I could only see someone who has come here for a holiday rating it so highly.

The nuts and bolts of living here if you are not loaded is not pleasant. It used to have a good nightlife, but that went by the wayside years ago. Also, with the large amount of inflation over the past decade it is no longer nearly as inexpensive as it used to be. Only someone who is used to a much more expensive economy would find BKK to be a cheap anymore.

They must not have asked anyone who has lived here.

This thread should be merged with the thread in general topics.

Yes, I think it does reflect the level of reporting that we are seeing in both English language dailies at the present time. Now all the Thais can clap themselves on the back because their capital is seen by the world as the world's 3rd best.

I live in BKK when I'm not doing my work in Taiwan, and all I'm thinking about is getting out of the place.

Wow and now the former TRT want Sonthi in their party if he enters politics I guess they just always want the most powerful person in their corner so that they can carve up the pie amongst themselves, whether it is Thaskin or his main political enemy.

Maybe choking fumes, gridlock, and dull urban landscapes are in style.

Or more likely, the Travel and Leisure readers assume Bangkok is exotic and exciting but have never actually been there.

Absolutely!

BKK above Rome? Get real!

Yeah, unbelieveable. Who did they have to bribe to get that in? Rome is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, an art mecca, with excellent food and wine, and excellent mass transit. Certainly it is a bit pricey. Maybe the cost of living had an impact.

As for nightlife, BKK's nightlife is dead compared to what it used to be 10 years ago.

I hope not Lao Po, but it looks like the case. I was one of those who was in favor of the coup, but it now looks as if we will have something just as bad as what was gotten rid of. I hope that the Thai people can somehow resist this. It looks like they are stuck with a choice between 2 really bad ruling elites-Thaksin and his cronies or the military.

Aaaaah ok... So, in your opinion, only the TV members should have the privilege to "brush" the TE members with basic, wrong, useless - and often offensive - comments?

It seems that any sensible, well explained and structured reply from TE members can't fight with the frustration of many. Too bad dry.gif

Respect should be going both sides. But basic nasty useless comments seem to work better. That's a pity indeed

Gerry,

I did make a couple of posts that were guilty of that and I did and do once again apologize to TE holders for that. I hope you saw that earlier post.

I understand that TE holders are satisfied with their benefits. Certainly, it would not be such a wise decision for me to make, and it is not really the lifestyle I prefer to live anyway. I guess if I had loads more money, I might be willing to do that( in a way this is a silly speculation because who knows what would happen if one's financial resources were to change dramatically-some people change loads and others don't)

I'm still curious though. Do you really think that you have a lifetime visa here(the reason you said that you got it)? Do you really trust the TAT(or what any official body says here)? I'm skeptical that it will last. If the program end up closing down, will you think it was still a good decision to get it?

Hampstead,

Thank you for the apology, and dealing with me on an individual basis rather than as one of the amorphous blob of people you may have disagreed with in the past, which is how it felt before. Graciously accepted.

I've seen some of your posts before and have noticed the pleasure you take in poking fun at people you think are whinging. If you do so with me, please just make sure it is with something I've said/whinged about . I'm by no means perfect and think that I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. I was kind of surprised when you took issue with a post of mine when I was backtracking and apologizing for some more extreme statements I had made rather than whacking me on one of my earlier posts from last night.

You present some interesting information which I have not read previously. They certainly have set more modest goals here than the previous administration and made some effort to figure out what was wrong in the past; Thaksin was always prone to hyperbole and rushing into to his projects pell mell.

It will be interesting to see if they can make it work. I'm skeptical. I guess we will have to wait a couple of years to see the result if TAT really is in it for the long haul as your post seems to show.

I'm not sure if I feel any more confident of what TAT says to be true than I would with what the Nation or BKK Post may say. I guess you are confident that they have a good track record on this subject.

Certainly what you say of the things which the BKK Post has done seems to be endemic of much writing in Thailand, especially when you look at the vast quantity of plagiarism which goes on among university students. I'm curious as to why you would say that the BKK Post is attacking TE? What is their interest in discrediting the program?

Well, if the present government only wants 500 per year, certainly it has more moderate desires than the last one and a goal that might be achievable. Certainly to have only 2,000+ at this point I believe that has been moving along at a slower place previously. When was it officially unveiled?

What opinions did I get so horribly wrong before? Please tell me as I just posted on this subject yesterday for the first time. Or is it that I was wrong last night and am still wrong today? You must be referring to someone else's posts. Please if you must disagree with me and whinge about, do it on something I have posted and not someone else. Ok?

We shall see if it lasts or not.

God, I hope we haven't gotten rid of Thaksin only to get something worse. I wouldn't be surprised if he were to run.

As far as I am aware – the one free upgrade is part of the TG Gold card service – and thus is available every 2 years for as long as the gold card lasts.

The one free with one full fare business (on the same flight) is only a good deal if two people were going to be on the same out and inbound flight and were going to fly business TG anyway. Its available every flight.

Really? So the upgrade they give is the normal perk that you usually get with Royal Orchid Plus Gold service. I would have expected more.

“The best massage places charge 2,000. Do you get anything special with that?”

No.. If you like a Warm flavoured tea and some fruit – that’s your happy ending.

From what I gather, any ideas of that nature would be deemed as highly inappropriate.

I was even told a story by one of the TE team that a Japanese fellow has been banned from using his TE card at Spa’s for requesting that they only massaged his bottom cheeks !

Pretty funny, but not so surprising with the Japenese. 2,000 baht for a straight massage-must be a pretty ritzy place.

How about eating some humble pie!!

that would be fair, right

i mean you guys have tried your hardest to oppinionate this subject with your hilarious victor meldrew posts(old whinging negative gits)

Try as you may to pick holes in everything you hark on about, but heres the thing

The Elite Card is here to stay

Sorry,I'm not making the pie and not ready to eat thank you, and I think we are well away from believing that this card will stay. If what the papers say is true, I think it is the prelude to some change. The fact that they were projecting 1,000,000 members as the goal and got only 2,000+ means that this project has fallen flat on it's face. To think otherwise doesn't seem sensible.

Ok, maybe you like your card and think it is worth it, but that doesn't mean that it will stay in existence.

However, the one cloud that hangs over the Card is the risk that the Government may close the scheme.

In this case we are assured compensation not less than the 1MB we paid. This is Thailand so I wouldn’t hold my breath for any compensation. But after 5 years (if the scheme lasts) I’m ‘quids in’ so to speak.

So they came out and said they would pay back all, if things went sour at the beginning of the program? So maybe you do have a little hope for something back, but not holding your breath is sensible. How many years in are you?

Ah you edited it while I was posting- so you are 3 years in?

The buy one get one free Business class flights with TG is not really a bonus. The full fare flight is more expensive than 2 business class flights with the excellent quality middle eastern airlines (i.e. Emirates, Qatar etc).

The one free Upgrade to first from Business or to Business from Economy is nice though

Ahh, ok so then the free ticket is not such a deal because you must pay full fare to get it. Is it one free upgrade per year, or per flight? You can easily build up those upgrades by flying frequently on Thai. For me, I would get one roughly every 2 flights back to the US. If you normally fly business, they would even come quicker.

Sorry to hear you have to go without a beer while waiting for your luggage like us plebs

The best massage places charge 2,000. Do you get anything special with that?