MangoKorat

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas has murdered plenty of its own Palestinians in the past and is currently using them as human shields now which is also a war crime

I have no said they haven't.  Indeed, if you get to one of my later posts you will see that I mention that both sides will be the subject of an investigation by the ICC.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Next time you write a story please add some references as you've got nothing but unsubstantiated claims there.

 

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

Given that just about everything I've written has been the subject of countless news reports recently, I didn't see the need to reference what I consider to be common knowledge.  I will be leaving shortly but if there's something specific you wish to be referenced, I'd be happy to when I have time - however, I'm at work for 4 days solid now.

59 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Repeated use of the slur deviants.

Repeated suggestion that gay people are less than fully human -- faulted.

Basically hate speech.

I have already shown that deviant is not a slur - it is the correct name for homosexual sexual behaviour.

I have never suggested that gay's are less than human - just that some form of fault causes them to be attracted to the same sex.  Its not a choice, its a fault.

Nothing like hate speech - my opinion on a subject raised by the OP.  I do not have to watch gay activity on TV and I shouldn't have to, it makes me feel ill.  I believe that I have a perfect right not to be subjected to gay activity and that TV shows etc. have a duty to issue a warning as they do with other things that may offend. Yes, offend, that's the word. Gay activity offends me but I don't in any way hate gay people - I just don't want to see gay sexual activity.

You on the other hand, may wish to see such things, that is your choice. We both have choices or we should have - on the rare occasions that I watch TV these days, it seems pretty hard to avoid gay activity of some sort - its even on adverts.

So, if you have some factual comments to make, feel free to make them - don't tell me what I am based on your own deviant views. That is views that deviate from the norm by the way. Not that you even accept the existence of a norm.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Traps. They are fighting urban warfare against an enemy that knows the territory. Duh.

Remember this, many of the IDF's soldiers are conscripts and its possible that just as there are dissenting voices in the Israeli civillian population, once this is over, any potential dissenters in the armed forces may well tell the story of what actually went on.  I've heard it said that the numbers of civiallians being killed in this conflict is way out of proportion with that in other recent wars. Traps are something a soldier has to deal with and that cannot be by simply killing anyone suspected of trying to trap them - otherwise that excuse could be applied to just about any situation involving civillians.  Should they shoot and kill an apparently injured child for example, in the fear that she might be concealing an explosive device?

Whatever, there will I suggest, be an investigation into the actions of both Hamas and the IDF carried out by the International Criminal Court into war crimes.  Based on the reports that I've seen on both UK and Israeli TV, the evidence in the case of the 3 young men killed would strongly suggest that war crimes were committed - evidence that I am yet to see Israel deny, only their conclusion is different.

There is a case to answer for breaking the standard rules of engagement and for the unlawful killing of unarmed civillians. A soldier cannot engage as an enemy, anyone who does not present an immediate threat to either human life or infrastructure unless otherwise ordered to do so by an officer he is subordinate to - even then, he/she is on thin ice. In that case, responsibility for any crime committed partially passes to that officer. 

Given the reported facts, it may be possible for a soldier to claim some form of mistake for shooting the first two men (doubtful) but the third young man who went inside a building and then called out in Hebrew?? Not a hope.  The first mistake, if indeed it was a mistake, or the possibility of a mistake would by then be clear and the second man should have been told to come out with his hands up. The fundamental point here is that a white flag was being waved. That is an internationally recognised sign of surrender and I don't see how any soldier could argue his/her way out of that.  There are agreed ways of dealing with both civillians and opposing forces displaying a white flag - methods designed to give the dominant force protection.

The sheer amount of Palestinian deaths points towards an indiscriminate bombing of clearly civillian areas, schools and hospitals - again illegal. Israel's claims that Hamas hides in such places have not been backed up by convincing evidence.

From sympathy over the 7th October Massacre - support for Israel has fallen drastically across the world - if not by governments, by the people.  Here in the UK the government has failed to outrightly condemn the actions of Israel in this matter but recent polls show the public strongly against Israel's clearly indiscriminate bombing of Gaza. The place is just a wasteland - even the worst photos and videos from Ukraine don't show such utter devastation.

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No you were spreading a Jew hating trope. 

Where? Be precise.

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You clearly posted a big fat lie about the US congress. The type of lie Jew haters spread. You outed yourself dude.

OK, I was speaking figuratively but it is well known that all US governments rely heavily on the jewish vote.  This has been reported on for years by all sides and is why the US would never stop funding Israel etc etc.

That was well known before the current conflict began - all US Presidents have had to pay much attention to the jewish vote.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They felt threatened. There is zero evidence it is IDF policy to shoot surrenders. In real war real soldiers sometimes mess up.

I repeat.......the second time - after the guy had run inside? Another mistake?

Wasted enough time on you.....adios.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Half the congress is Jewish huh?

Where did you hear that, Stormfront?

Oh I got it now.

You've outed yourself big time. 

You're just another Jew hater.

Oh god, here we go again - on another thread I'm a gay hater, now I'm a jew hater.  I have no feelings either negative or positive towards jews.  I was simply pointing out the allegiance of much of the US government - which by the way is common knowledge.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No you're a disgusting propagandist if you think the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages. I get it. Propagandists like you are trying to wildly blow up that horrible mistake into something universal instead of the type of thing that happens in all wars.

Jeez, how much did they need? Civillian clothes, unarmed, waving white flags - a mistake?  Why then did they shoot the third man? 

I don't think they deliberately shot hostages - they clearly thought they 3 men were Palestinian.

The Israelis say they are systematically moving forward and show videos of the IDF checking buildings out with binoculars.  Unarmed people shouting at them in Hebrew, what more did they need to take a moment and think?

I suggest you read the reports - the reports that Israel accept!

You'd argue black's white rather than admit you're wrong.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Stop lying. 

Many were Hamas.

You're falling for their propaganda hook line and sinker.

Not their propaganda - that of the UN, Doctors Without Frontiers and many other aid groups.  Ask them how many children have died.

Where do you get your info from?  Israel? 

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's why this is called the Hamas Israel war.

BUT ITS PALESTINIAN CIVILLIANS THAT ARE BEING KILLED - AROUND 20,000 OF THEM!!!

Just now, Jingthing said:

Funny.

That's the ideology of Hamas.

Murder all Jews.

Since 1948 the population of "Palestinian" Arabs has massively ballooned.

I think we all agree Israel is technologically advanced. If their intention was genocide they are mysteriously incredibly incompetent at it.

Yes..... HAMAS!!!

Israel is constrained by its US paymasters.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Like when the Hamas terrorist scum Murdered the Thai workers?

Again and again and again...............yes HAMAS murdered Thai workers......NOT Palestinians - how can anyone be so stupid?

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

So moronic to read so much BS from a tragic incident of friendly fire. War is messy.

Tragic incident of friendly fire??  Have you read the reports?  The guys clearly were unarmed, they were also waving a white flag.  Two were shot ,one of them ran back inside the building and was heard shouting to the IDF in Hebrew - they then went in and shot him.  Friendly fire? What have you been smoking!!!!

The Israeli's don't deny any of the above by the way.

7 minutes ago, asf6 said:

who died of injuries sustained during an Israeli bombardment in Rafah,

Yes the city that late last week the Israelis told people to go to, shortly before they shelled it.

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

According to these war criminals being a "sympathizer" makes one a legitimate target. How repugnant.

Given the treatment the Palestinians have received at the hands of the Israeli's. Who do they expect them to sympathise with?    To they best of my knowledge it is not against the law to sympathise with a terrorist organisation - misguided yes but in a lot of ways, its understandable. Note: Sympathise is not the same as Support.

I support the right of all people to live - be they Israeli or Palestinian. I hate to say it but I wonder just what the Israeli's would do if they weren't under such international pressure? It seems to me that given the chance, they would simply wipe the Palestinians of the face of the earth.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To that you can add destroying infrastructure such as desalination plants and sewage systems, attacking ambulances, killing identified health staff and journalists, attacking hospitals and schools, destroying bakeries, denying fuel, water and food.

Plenty more as well.

Yes, the list is almost endless - and all blamed on the attacks of 7th October.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Anyone who isn't a bigot and/or a religious fanatic understands that being gay is not a fault. Frankly I hate your poisonous bigotry, why? It causes suicides of gay youth. They hear haters like you and question their own worth as human beings especially if their parents are anti gay bigots 

Hate on. Where have I said I hate gays?  I have nothing against gays and I've forgotten just how many times I've stated that I support gay rights such as marriage etc. but:

1. Homosexual behaviour is not normal behaviour

2. I don't want to see homosexual behaviour - it makes me puke. Others may not be bothered.

3. I do not consider hetrosexuals as having any more worth than their gay counterparts

4. If you're gay, you're gay, learn to live with it, most people don't give a damn what you do behind closed doors but don't expect hetrosexuals to accept your behaviour - some will, some won't.

5. Why should the fact that there are gay people mean that I should change my views, what right have you to ask that I do?

6. I'm a bigot? Again? I guess you want nothing less than total acceptance - never going to happen.

Overall I would defend the rights of a gay person to equal treatment as far as I possibly could. That does not normalise gay behaviour or mean that it should be imposed on others. I would also state, and I know this from having a gay brother, that in many cases, some gays are out to shock and when allowed, will engage in outrageously sexual behaviour in public - to a far greater extent than I've even seen hetrosexuals do. Its neither necessary nor acceptable. 

If you wish to call me a bigot, I'm OK with that, your entitled to your views but I consider myself far from it - a bigot would not accept gay marriage for example. 

I'm happy in my soul, its not me that's having problems with accepting who I am. Huge chip on shoulder I'd suggest you try to get over it.

I think we've both made our views plain but I find it interesting that you expect hetrosexual people to accept gay behaviour - meaning you have no respect for our rights not to accept it. Now that's biggoted.

I don't see what more there is to discuss but I have no doubt that your non-acceptance will mean that you do.  You have exceeded yourself in your attempts at baiting me - up from a bigot to a hater, I'm neither but up to you.

Can't see the point in any further discussion.

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The replies will be it was all justified because of how horrendous the Hamas attacks were and they were warned to leave anyway.

Yes, warned to leave and go to another area that will then be bombed. Nobody seems to consider that Palestinian civillians are not the ones who carried out the 7th October attacks.  Given Israel's actions though, they may very well be Hamas or some other militant group members in the future.

On 11/25/2023 at 9:13 AM, Nick Carter icp said:

Can you state the war crimes that Israel have committed 

Well I'll give it a go...........

But first I will state that the attacks on Israeli civillians on 7th October were horrific and the work of animals.  But let's be clear here, those attacks were committed by Hamas. They were not committed by Palestinian Civillians.

So, returning to war crimes committed by Israel - since the start of this war, Israel has been accused of the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians.  Israel have used as their reasoning that such civillians are actually the victims of Hamas who force 'collateral damage' through hiding amongst the population.  The Israelis also made out that Hamas sited their weapons storage and other infrastructure in public buildings and schools. Even that Hamas had a major heaquarters in the Al Shifa hospital.  The photos I've seen, provided by the Israelis after the capture the Al Shifa showed a handful of weapons, some clothing and, I think, one laptop - hardly a headqaurters.

I have never believed that the Israelis were taking much care of where they were bombing or have any particular care for Palestinian civillians.  That conviction was totally justified last week when Israeli soldiers shot dead 3 Israeli citizens who were un-armed and waving a white flag.  If they have no care for anyone waving a white flag, what hope do Palestinians have?

The Israelis actions are both indefensible and futile.  The amount of 'collateral damage' has been stated as far higher than that in any other war and what do they think they are currently creating in Gaza?  They may well defeat Hamas but just how do they think the remaining Palestinians will regard them?

Their actions are creating a force far bigger than Hamas ever was from people who won't care - what have they got to lose? Unless the rest of the world steps in they have no future.  Prior to this the Israeli right wing regarded Palestinians as little more than dogs - how will they treat them once they are defeated?  What do such actions breed?

From the start of the conflict the Israelis have ordered the Palestinians to move from one area to another and then shelled the area they told people to move to.  They did exactly that again last week when they told some Palestinians to move to Rafah City then bombed it the next day.

Although it is in no way an excuse for the 7th October attrocities, the Israeli government's behaviour over the last few years has been a huge contributory factor in the situation that lead to the current situation. Even as I write, Israeli 'settlers' are stealing Palestinian farms and land in the West Bank and shooting Palestinians.  As the UN's Anthony Guterrez said  - this situation was not created out of a vacuum.  In 2015 Netanyahu stated that there will never be a Palestinian State and has repeated that several times since - last week he said it will never happen. That cannot stand and neither can Hamas's intent to destroy Israel continue.

Like many, I have always believed that any solution to the decades old conflict in Israel/Palestine must include the disolution of groups such as Hamas but Israel must also get rid of its right wing government and stop encouraging the stealing of land. Both sides must recognise each other's right to exist.

My overall concern at the moment is the huge amount of Palestinians being killed by Israel's attacks every day. There is no and can be no - excuse for what is going on at the moment. Its not collateral damage, its slaughter.

So War Crimes:

• Indiscriminate bombing of civillian buildings/homes
• Shooting of unarmed Palestinian civillians
• Shooting of unidentified/unarmed people waving white flags
• Failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to some areas
• Failing to allow sufficient humanitarian aid overall
• Deliberate turning off of water supplies
• Carrying out military operations in refugee camps

They will, I have no doubt, add to that list as time moves on.  I am also sure that Hamas have also committed War Crimes but that wasn't your question.