Somjot

I couldn`t agree more. Peaceful is always the best way to debate and insults tell more about the person, who insulted than about those who were insulted. And I´ll respect your decision about further discussions on that topic. I hope you will not consider it rude if I make a final comment about that: I fully understand and support the urge of Jewish people to have a place for themselves, were they can live, thrive and most importantly defend themselves in case, like so many times in history, anyone intends to harm them. But what is going on right now has completely gotten out of hand and for the sake of not only the Palestinian people but also the state of Israel, it must stop. The fact that you stand for your country and your people in these difficult times speaks for you. I am just not sure if your approach to certain things is really the best way to support them. The first step to solve any problem is to acknowledge that there is a problem. I don´t expect any answer to this; I only hope you might reflect on it in a quiet moment.

You're speaking right from my heart. We talk about all these issues like climate change, ozone hole, Greenhouse gas emissions, rising global temperatures, rising sea levels, biodiversity loss, fossil fuel combustion and so on while the problem can be described with one single word: humans. Reminds me of that old joke where two planets are talking to each other. One says “Buddy you look awful what's wrong with you?” “I caught homo sapiens.” “Ouch that's bad but don't worry that always passes as fast as it came.” Who knows maybe today in a million years or so some radioactivity resistant and now evolved bugs will find fossilized humans and ask themselves “Why did they extinct? They had quite large brains.” “The last signs of human life were detected at the same time, when a lot of huge radioactive craters suddenly showed up all over the globe.” “Poor bastards, probably asteroids, they never had a chance.”

I I understand your frustration too well: You start a great thread about human behavior and psyche and ask the provoking question, why we really follow rules and orders and if there is not a little racist in all of us. This causes some of the more thoughtful BMs like @connda, @KhunLA and @spidermike007 to contribute with interesting answers but before you know it, @Nick Carter icp our famous defender of the chosen people shows up. Does he contribute intelligent and meaningful comments? No. He starts by questioning single posts, demanding the poster to explain himself “Make your mind up, is it acceptable or not?” or simply telling them that they are wrong “No, you will NOT be told that", or by making false accusations “Imagining a World without Jews and how much better the World would be , is actually anti-Semitic.” while the quote he refers to, does not include anything like that and even if the BM has ever written something similar, it is a simple thought experiment. By calling that anti-Semitic he is proving himself to be anti-intellectual. If I write “imagine a world without people.” Would that be anti-human? And he goes on with guilt shifting about giving land back to indigenous people in Australia and the US or openly accusing BMs of being ant-semitic, proving that with untrue comments like “Israelis do not think that they are above the law. Israelis actually get held accountable for their actions.” Yes, sure, last time an Israeli was held accountable, the court sentenced him, an IDF soldier, to 2 months of community service based on the substantiated guilt of killing an unarmed Palestinian child in the West Bank. And before you know it, you find yourself in a position where you have to defend yourself and your ancestors against ridiculous accusations and the whole thread is ruined. THAT is exactly his intention. He does not want to contribute; he wants to silence. Or with the words of Bassem Youssef: He is zionizing us. Zionizing is a verb which means to gaslight someone with such a shameless and narcistic audacity that you deny reality to their faces while simultaneously play the victim engaging in endless circle debates that go nowhere and display a complete loss of empathy and basic humanity. In his own reality facts are negotiable, truth is whatever serves him in the moment and when you corner him, he goes on full victimhood mode and throws accusations “Hamas, antisemite, terrorist supporter” If you want to have an interesting and intelligent conversation there is no other way than to completely ignore his posts and never react to them. Now back to topic: I think since the fall of the Third Reich threads like this have never been as important as they are now where blatant injustices and mass murder are being committed not in some dark place of our planet unreached by civilization and but by those who we call our friends and allies. We, and by we I mean the western world, think we are the best of humanity the most progressive and the most humane, with the best laws created to protect us from each other, yet since 2 1/2 years all these laws and rules have been twisted beyond recognition or were replaced by a ridiculous and easy to see through double standard. This did not happen overnight; we have been brainwashed for decades without even knowing it by many means: Entertainment. Even before September 11 the baddies were quite often middle easterners and independent from which part of the Middle East they came from they all seemed to have this fashion hype about wearing a keffiyeh like in True lies from 1995 or even Back to the future in 1985. Media: it was never as clear as now how the media is trying to influence us. Just look at the reports of the latest war and compare the different wording: “9 Israelis killed in a horrible missile attack from the evil regime in Iran.” “140 girls killed in a bomb explosion in Tehran.” Let's be honest, almost every human being has some sort of xenophobia, Which might have been useful over millennia when we lived in small groups of 10 to 30 and Being suspicious of another group, we just encountered helped surviving, as they could be dangerous to us. This group dynamic thing is also a typical human thing, for example when you go to soccer World Championships, were the fans are rooting for the team of their country but when back home they are immediately split into those groups who are rooting for the team of their city. Unfortunately this behavioral pattern of building groups is abused by powerful people with greedy interests for the resources of another country. What happens next is that the people of this country will be demonized so that the average voter supports an attack on that country, which could be seen in comments like “it's them against us”. Hitler knew that perfectly. He had two problems: he needed enough people to vote for him and side with him when he ended democracy and he needed money for his projects. Germany was horribly suffering after the Versailles treaty, so what better group to blame for that then the Jews, as quite a few of them were very successful businessmen. He came up with his race theories about Jews trying to desecrate Arian blood and take over the world, telling people not to buy in their shops and before you knew it they were arrested, deported and mass murdered. It has never been as important as now for us to see these patterns and to understand when they try to put in our brains “it's them against us” what they truly mean is: It's you against them for the benefit of me

First of all, thank you (I clicked a thanks) for your elaborate answer. Now to the points we mostly disagree: It may surprise you, that I too have my doubts about Israel committing a genocide, simply because I don´t think it´s Palestinian life they are after, it´s their land and property. But I am pretty much sure that Israel is committing war crimes; just to name a few: Indiscriminate attacks of civilians, residential buildings, schools, universities hospitals, etc. Airstrikes on refugee camps Murdering aid workers Flour massacre World Central Kitchen drone strikes Gaza aid distribution massacres intentional targeting of preteen children with gunshot wounds to the head or chest mass graves like the one with 283 bodies at Khan Younis's Nasser medical complex, some of the bodies were found with their hands and feet tied sexual violence and torture against detainees cutting off water access starvation crop destruction murder of medics in record numbers killing of journalists in record numbers Rafah paramedic massacre Forced evacuation Looting Use of white phosphorus on civilians Killing of surrendered people Use of human shields And I have asked many times before, if my neighbor comes over to my place, starts an argument and before I know it knocks me down breaking my nose and I later walk over to his place and beat him, his wife and kids including the newborn baby into coma, would any judge release me, when I state that he started the conflict and used his family as human shields? There are so called principles of distinction and proportionality in the laws of war and Israel has broken them from day 1. The situation is absolutely NOT the same: In WW II countries were fighting each other, all of them with armies, tanks, fighter planes, war ships, you name it and when civilian areas were hit, most of the time because they were next to some military facility. It was necessary to hit them in order to stop any further production of weapons and yes, collateral damage was sometimes unavoidable but the whole goal was to make the opponent defenseless and to force him to capitulate. Israel has tanks, ships, fighter jets, bombs, you name it - Hamas has none of that. They have outdated machine guns and some museum grade rockets with which from 2004 to 2014, they were only able to kill 27 Israeli civilians and 5 IDF soldiers. That´s 32 Israelis in 10 years. Israel has destroyed 92% of all buildings in Gaza and killed around 100.000 always justifying it with Hamas fighters or weapon depots among civilians yet has given almost no proof for that. I am sorry but this is not a simple disagreement between you and me; it`s a total denial of facts by you. We are both no experts on that but as a matter of facts practically ALL experts are in agreement about Israel committing war crimes. That should be a wake up call for you but instead of that you prefer to remain in your comfortable denial bubble. At least it was for me. My country committed the first genocide of the last century, the extermination of the Herero and the Nama people in German South West Africa (now Namibia). It committed the most horrific genocide in human history known as Holocaust were innocent people were murdered on an industrial level and it is accused of complicity in the first genocide of the 21century. What do you mean by "neither I nor any other living person is a Semite". If that is true why is "anti-Semitic" almost seen as a brand of Cain?

That is a really praiseworthy project. The question is, are you qualified for it? Any chance for an answer to my last post? I repeat my question to you in that post:

Why? How can you be so ignorant to the truth? Is it because it hurts too much? Or does it oppose everything you have been taught since childhood? Practically EVERY Human Rights organization states that Israel has been and is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity since it`s existence but most visibly since October 8, when Gazans documented their own mass murder supported by Tiktok videos uploaded by "brave" IDF soldiers showing their atrocities. How is ist possible that an educated person like you is still incapable of seeing the truth? Just to pick one of the worst: The IDF performed target practice with little kids, hitting different body parts depending on the day of the week. Here is a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Gaza_war Do you have children? None of us can imagine the pain and desperation of a father who found his child wounded by a sniper shot and then tried to carry it to the next hospital only to feel a sudden pull at his arm because the sniper put another bullet in that child´s head. Not accepting this to be a war crime is way more anti-whatever or racist as any anti-Semitic post. Would you say the same about Islamophobic or Anti-Arab posts? I´d like to invite you to a mind game: Why don´t we search for posts with words like "Muslim", "Islam", and similar words and then replace these words with "Jew", "Judaism" and similar words and then see how many of them are clearly anti-Semitic. And then let´s discuss double standard. Plus the fact why Members posting critical towards Israel but not anti-Semitic posts are constantly accused of being Jew haters and terrorist lovers. Antisemitism is rising and must be opposed by all means but as long as many Semites like yourself are not able or willing to see the wrongdoings of the country you so diligently support, you are part of the problem.

And you withdraw from "Let`s leave it like that." You really need that money, don`t you. Should we start a "Go fund me" for you?

Bibi is a wanted war criminal. Bibi is creating "terrorists" by murdering innocent women and children and turning the few surviving men into resistance fighters so he can label them as terrorists. Bibi must do so because it is the only way to save him from prison time as in addition to being a war criminal he is also a fraudster who took bribes and has an ongoing trial. He is sacrificing young Palestinian children to save his old ass. Bibi practically created Hamas by allowing and even supporting funds into Gaza, which were used for that. THAT is the monster you are siding with. I am not a Jew hater. You are a truth hater. And the real bigot. Because you pretend to stand with law and justice while you knowingly support lawlessness and injustice.

You support genocide committed by a war criminal. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for proving my statement. Yeah.

Funny, I commented the post of another member, and you answered with a single statement about the land belonging to the Jews and supported your statement not with facts but with an insult to me. I challenged your statement asking you on which law it is based on. No answer Instead you answered my next comment to a post from the same member I had commented previously. Are you "Nick" using different nicks or just "Nick`s" minion? In any case, you are doing your (your master`s) cause no favor. I share my opinion and the facts it is based on. You support your opinion, in case you bother to express one, by insulting, labeling and branding me, which is just a pathetic way to prove your incapability of presenting any facts as you have none.

I am German and I was raised and taught that I bear no guilt for the atrocities my ancestors committed but same any German carry the lifelong duty to do anything in my hands that abominations like the Holocaust will never happen again. NEVER AGAIN IS NOW AND FOR EVERYBODY The generation of my grandparents let a genocide happen in Germany committed by our government and my generation will be blamed to let a genocide happen elsewhere supported by our government, our weapons and our money. What you fail to understand is that by opposing the mass murder of women and children committed by Israel in Gaza, I am actually siding with Jews and trying to protect them from sharing the same horrible history I grew up with and from being despised by coming Jewish generations same as I despised the generation of my grandparents. Mass murder has NEVER been judged positively by coming generations. Not once.

Based on what law? Name it if you can. There is none. Based on history? Well, there were people there before the Jews same as after them. How can it only belong to Jews? Speaking of, who are the Jews? Those living there 3000 years ago? How can people claim to be related to them, when many other non - Jewish ancestors in the meantime got their genes into their genepool while others just converted? Based on religion? On the promises of some sky daddy when both, sky daddy and that ominous promise, were basically made up by some shepherds Thousands of years ago? And if so, why did the Jews leave "God`s promise" if it meant so much to them? The only at least for me acceptable explanation is the need of the Jews to create a safe haven for themselves after Thousands of years of being mistreated by the rest of humanity which peaked in the darkest and most shameful part of the history of my birth land, the holocaust. And which place could be better for that than the area where their whole culture and religion comes from. Again, understandable, the need for a safe place, but it comes with a high price which others, who never had harmed any Jews must pay. Even if you believe that the Palis are the real occupiers, comparable to squatters who take your home after you have left it for some holidays, that gives you no right to do to them what Israel did and keeps doing. Kill a squatter in your country and you´ll spend decades in jail as it is a serious crime. Same goes for Israel, it´s a criminal country with mostly criminal citizens, at least those who voted for the actual government and supporting it now, which is the majority. And you are a "no-got" as you got not a single argument to prove your statement so you prefer to insult.

It is interesting and even more disturbing how pro Israel Jews and Non-Jews perceive the world around themselves: On one hand side immediately and loudly accusing anything and anybody for being anti-semitic, like when some groups in Canada had send letters to camp associations demanding to close Jewish kid`s summer camps as these camps were teaching kids apartheid Zionist ideologies and even invite IDF for lectures, which is not in accordance with a democratic state like Canada, leading to the Israel supporters writing comments like "Now they are going after Jewish kids" even comparing that to the holocaust. On the other hand side completely blind for the real atrocities committed by Israel and the IDF and any reports about the newest massacre of Palestinians go in one ear and out the other. Which leads to accusations like in the post above: The thread is about dual citizens fighting for the IDF and committing war crimes in Gaza. Here are some actual numbers And in all these countries some of those nice things the most moral army in world committed are seen as war crimes and as a national of these countries you can be persecuted for example for the mass murder of children even if you performed this "act of bravery" somewhere else. Questions like these clearly show the delusion of the person and his inability or unwillingness to see the truth. What is "the real war criminals" supposed to tell us? That the IDF soldiers slaughtering 40.000 women and children are not real war criminals? Even if there are dual nationals currently fighting for Hamas in Gaza, there is not the slightest reason to persecute them, not even according to western law as they are defending their country from murderous invaders. Fighting murderous invaders in your own country is self-defense. Mass murder of the population in an occupied territory is not. And yet they have the brass neck to ask questions like this: Same as "Why just focus on Israelis?" Under given circumstances any neutral and normal person would consider a question like this as a bad joke at best, but not them. They really are incapable of seeing the truth and realizing how wrong they are.

Absolutely! As much as I personally hate those Mullah bastards and wish them to be executed for the horrendous crimes they committed, but that is their only chance of survival. Iran has never attacked another country - Israel has repeatedly attacked neighboring countries Iran has signed the Nonproliferation treaty - Israel did not. Iran has admitted to inspections - Israel has never even admitted they have nukes. Iran has no nukes - Israel has 75 to 400 nukes. Israel, the only uncontrolled nuclear power demands full control over a country which allowed inspections until Trump cancelled the contract. The brass neck. If the Mullahs learn from history and look at what happened to other dictators in the are, who trusted the West, they should hurry to get some nukes.

Real democratic states with a functioning law system put soldiers, who committed atrocities on trial no matter from which side. Terrorists or terrorist states don`t put their own terrorists on trial for committing abominations. The rather worship them as heros. Thanks for proving what Israel really is.