scott1999

Houston we are cooking!

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this little exercise. It's done now, I don't know how many (fridges) I can get on this system but I think it's quite a few.

30/100 transformer to 100 breaker, to three 63 amp breakers = POWER!!!

Cost in total 75,000 baht

Here we go! 

Swap the 50amp to a 100amp fuse and have three 63 amp breakers running from the 100 amp breaker. 3 machines = total 45 amp for each fuse breaker. 9 fridges in total LOL

The electrician came today who works for PEA. He can't speak very good English and I can't speak very good Thai so we were using translation and pictures but we did understand each other I showed him this picture and he said he could do it. But he'll make the three Breakers 100 not 60 amp. Well, he is the man that fitted it from the transformer (30/100) 3 phase, so he must know it can handle it. He said he will use copper wire as well. It's all looking good, I told him there will be three of these boxes one box for each 100 amp breaker each box will generate 45 amps which equals three machines so that's nine machines in total plus one on the old wiring system if I want to go that far. But I doubt it, nine machines will be sufficient and that is one hell of a lot of electricity to pay for every month. He didn't ask, but if he had I would've said they are fridges LOL 

On 4/3/2024 at 9:21 AM, scott1999 said:

Thank you so much for your precise and clear information I do appreciate you taking the time to do this if I could return the favour a little bit with some information I got from the PEA They said Don't go onto the TOU Without solar as it will cost more than the 2.1.2 tariff. She said many people went on to TOU And asked to come back to the flat rate because it was working out to be more expensive if you don't have the solar. Thanks again for all your help I appreciate it.   

After talking to Crossy I have made contact with the Electrician that works for PEA.  I Sent him a photo of the three phase breaker box he said that's a good one he's coming this weekend to evaluate the job. I'm sure they all do moonlighting on the side. But it really helped me starting this thread so that I had a good idea what I wanted. I.E keep the old fuse box, and a new three phase fuse box. Question should the fuse box be in the room (the machine room) or should I have it mounted outside for safety reasons? I will ask the electrician the same question but I would like to know what you think crossy? Thanks in advance

58 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

There is no flat 4 Baht / kWh rate, you will be on the tariff 2.1.2.

 

Anyway, a Schneider 3-phase board, dependent upon the number of breaker positions, is going to run to 5-10k for the board, 150 for each single-phase MCB and 3-4k for your 100A incoming MCCB.

 

Your sparks should be able to size the board for what you need and future expansion.

 

 

Thank you so much for your precise and clear information I do appreciate you taking the time to do this if I could return the favour a little bit with some information I got from the PEA They said Don't go onto the TOU Without solar as it will cost more than the 2.1.2 tariff. She said many people went on to TOU And asked to come back to the flat rate because it was working out to be more expensive if you don't have the solar. Thanks again for all your help I appreciate it.   

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

It's not been 4 Baht per unit for a good while unless you are a very low user. 

https://www.pea.co.th/en/electricity-tariffs

Note that the numbers on the above link do not include the FT (fuel tariff) which is currently 0.3972 Baht/kWh

 

I did pick the wrong tariff for the calculator but even with the correct tariff you're looking at about 11,300 Baht per month and that's only going to go up.

That's what I was quoted by PEA I could have gone TOU (Time of use)   But you pay 5 to 6 baht in the day and 2.5 Baht at night. Now this tariff would work well if you had solar but I don't have solar so I went with the flat 4 baht 

Crossy please may I ask one more question: How much should I pay for the three phase circuit breaker board?

30 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It's not been 4 Baht per unit for a good while unless you are a very low user. 

https://www.pea.co.th/en/electricity-tariffs

Note that the numbers on the above link do not include the FT (fuel tariff) which is currently 0.3972 Baht/kWh

 

I did pick the wrong tariff for the calculator but even with the correct tariff you're looking at about 11,300 Baht per month and that's only going to go up.

Solar is the way for sure but I have come to this conclusion it's just the accumulation of the coin whatever it costs because eventually the value of the coin is a lot higher than what you paid in electricity as long as I can keep paying for the electricity I can keep going when I can't I can't it's as simple as that thanks again for all your help

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I think you are under-estimating your energy cost here.

 

The S21-200TH is rated at 3010W, let's say 3kW for easy sums.

 

3 x 24 x 30days = 2,160kWh per miner/month.

 

Feeding that number into the PEA bill-estimator here https://eservice.pea.co.th/estimatebill/# gives an overall cost of 15,300Baht per miner/month.

 

Is it still viable at that level?

 

How about mining other coins?

 

By the way. Powering one miner with solar would need 70 x 340W (about 140m²) panels plus associated inverters and battery packs.

 

Hi Crossy, thanks for all your help on this subject I really appreciate it. As for the bill 3.1 times by 24 = 74 times by 30 days =  2232 times by 4 baht a unit = 8928 baht a month this is more like what my bill looks like. 7000 was under the true cost but someone just asked a question unrelated to the topic so I just gave him some numbers off the top of my head next time I'll be more careful.

As for the solar panels that is the plan after this bull run I will need 2 60 KWH systems LOL EXPENSIVE!!!

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

IMHO that should be the only comment here.

 

I find it amazing that this kind of project is discussed in a Thai farang forum.

Obviously, it's good that we have a specialist like Crossy on this board. But I thought this forum is more for questions how to wire a washing machine or something like that.

Above is about a lot of power. It's deadly when done wrong.

This is why I think the only answer should be: Find a competent sparky. 

I understand your opinion completely but I was getting some mixed messages and so I thought I would ask this community of course I'm not going to try and do anything myself nor have I done, everything's been done by the PEA and Experienced electricians so far and Crossy  Has confirmed The breaking box to use and that's the end of the story really thanks for your concern and opinion.

4 minutes ago, lom said:

A 15/45A single phase meter can withstand 15A continuously and 45A for a short time, not 45A continuously!

The same goes for a 30/100A 3-phase meter, it is 30A per phase continuously.

Interesting I can understand about the single phase wiring. But the three phase has a 50 amp fuse. Would that not be OK for a continuous draw of amps?

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Someone told me that for Bitcoin mining you had to wire an invisible bypass of your PEA meter. R U doing that? 

I'm sure there are people doing this but they will be caught eventually

1 hour ago, NativeBob said:

The only issue you might face is complete loco officer who will disconnect you from power grid and arrest your property but it is very unlikely this days. Back in early 2000-s I got 3 servers arrested in Bang Rak's Data Center. <<< Pure extorsion. 
However I got them back after good lawyer visit and request documents supporting those actions. I got my hardware back within five days, actually a week. Once in 20++ years: don't loose face and think about bribe. You got nothing to worry.
Your BTC can be cashed say in Zimbabwe and sent to you as "Nigerian inheritance" or whatever via WU. (stupidly funny, right?)

wow That is a frightening story, If there ever was a surplus of money I will just give it to my daughter anyway who lives in England there are mining pools now where the day's profits week's profits and so on can be sent automatically to another wallet anywhere in the world so I would have proof that I'm not Receiving the funds. Again thanks for your input a troubling story

2 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

 

That's assuming you actually get to mine a Bitcoin. You are up against some very big mining farms. With hundreds of miners. It is the power of these miners which assure they can actually solve the calculations to mine BTC. Dare I say if you DCA'd into BTC with your 750,000 baht and then took that 7000 baht electric cost per month and bought what you could the price would average out over time. So when, say in the next two halving's and the value is $1,000,000.00 plus. That would be a greater return I thing. 

 

You should also take into consideration that after about 18 months or so BTC enters into a bear market. So in a couple years from now the price of a Bitcoin could be 40-50% or more lower than the ATH of this cycle. Assuming History repeats itself and so far with BTC, it has. 

 

Either way it's a gamble but with Dollar Cost Averaging you are accumulating BTC. There is no guarantee you will actually mine any BTC over a 4 year period. Also your S21s maybe enough for now. But as the tech is forever moving forward will they be enough for next year or the year after?  If it was so easy, everyone would be doing it!

Thank you Charlie for your detailed reply I'm a couple years into this now, and I think you're talking about the hash rate difficulty if too many miners come online at once. and I believe you are right about just buying Bitcoin and saving the electricity and the cost of the miners. But I enjoy mining Bitcoin more than buying it, it's great fun. Also, I enjoy giving it to the banks with their Fiat currencies continually devaluing any savings you might have. So it's all a risk,

bitcoin could go to zero or it could go to 1,000,000 no one really knows.

You are correct they are bringing out more powerful miners All the time but they don't seem to be as expensive as they used to be I think they've saturated the market now with miners. PS The s21s just got a pro Version coming out in Q3 or 4 240 hash.

As for your comment about (if it was that easy everyone would be doing it) Not everyone can get three phase electricity, not everyone can put up with the noise and the heat, and not everyone has the money to set up even the smallest of farms. 

Again thank you for your opinion I've taken it under advisement, time will tell if the Gamble pays off or not.

11 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

is Mining anyhow related to Labor Department? Nope!

Any "working w/o WP" case has to go through proper investigation, facts and court. We are not living in Banana Republic after all, I witnessed few cases when "bad guy" appealed and won (in Bangkok and Pty).

Even if a <deleted>load of BiB will visit your crypto-farm just tell them it's a fridge. Think about hassle explaining how electricity will turn into money in court? 

I do have freeze drying machines which do eat a lot of electricity they  freeze dry food So that the food can be stored for up to 20 years if you like to. Thanks for the info

17 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

 

How old are your miners? If you aren't using the latest type of miner then as mentioned you are unlikely to mine much BTC. Also as the tech moves forward will you renew those miners in a year or 2. How much is each miner going to cost? I have read that the break even cost to mine 1 BTC is about $37,000!

Good question. Let's start with the miners you're gonna need S21s 200 hash,  Each miner is about 150,000 baht times 5 miners 750,000 plus the electric at 7,000 baht a month = 35,000 a month times 48 months = 1,680,000 plus the miners total 2,430,000 times 2 = 5,000,000 baht for 2 Bitcoins. Now after 4 years you can still mine and if you have solar again that's clear profit. But let's keep it to the next cycle 4 years for now. Bitcoin is $70,000 = 2,600,00 baht times 2 = 5,200,000 baht. So if Bitcoin doesn't go up in the next four years you will just about break even now here's the gamble some people (Blackrock and so on) estimate in four years time it will be between 250,000 to $1.5 million dollars. I'm taking that gamble. Conservatively let's say$300,000 each 600,000 dollars = 22,000,000 baht 

17 minutes ago, scott1999 said:

Thanks for the heads up and like most things in Thailand you have to go under the radar or around the houses to get to where you want to be. I've been a teacher for over 15 years with a work permit assisted by my ex girlfriend Who works for the Ministry of labor in the department where all the big companies get their work permits renewed. I do have one of those ladies less than 500 meter away. None of us can be truly safe but with my ex girlfriend name on the Freehold of the villa and my name on a 30 year lease. With me teaching online feeding the local dogs (I care for 12) and cows I try my best to be a positive not a negative to the village. But you are right my work permit would not cover the Bitcoin mining but I'm sure my Ex-girlfriend would say they're hers if push comes to a shove. Thanks again for the warning I couldn't agree more it's like walking on eggshells most of the time here I just had to go into Hua Hin to have the banking app put back on my new phone because I broke my old phone and foreigners can't upload the new app without the help from the bank nice.  The photo uploaded is how I feel most of the time. LOL

A great big thank you to all the people (Crossy) that took the time to reply to my need of help. The first picture is of my pack of dogs coming back from the river every morning the second photo is what I look like now after 6 years living in the jungle LOL

17 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I know you don't probably don't want to consider this, but the Labour Department will regard what you're doing as work (regardless of whether you make any money out of it). Your project is (I assume) intended to earn you money, so for that you'll need a work permit (which you won't get without employing Thai staff etc etc, so a non-starter).

 

It wouldn't be bad if you could fly under the radar, but you started this thread and detailed your plans, your PEA guy knows what you're doing and (thanks to the Thai grapevine), that old Thai lady living 500km away from you in a small village also knows exactly what you're doing.

 

It only takes one disgruntled neighbour and your Mining project will be .. er .. toast.

Thanks for the heads up and like most things in Thailand you have to go under the radar or around the houses to get to where you want to be. I've been a teacher for over 15 years with a work permit assisted by my ex girlfriend Who works for the Ministry of labor in the department where all the big companies get their work permits renewed. I do have one of those ladies less than 500 meter away. None of us can be truly safe but with my ex girlfriend name on the Freehold of the villa and my name on a 30 year lease. With me teaching online feeding the local dogs (I care for 12) and cows I try my best to be a positive not a negative to the village. But you are right my work permit would not cover the Bitcoin mining but I'm sure my Ex-girlfriend would say they're hers if push comes to a shove. Thanks again for the warning I couldn't agree more it's like walking on eggshells most of the time here I just had to go into Hua Hin to have the banking app put back on my new phone because I broke my old phone and foreigners can't upload the new app without the help from the bank nice.  The photo uploaded is how I feel most of the time. LOL

41 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

I wish you luck, But even with 10-13 miners I'm not sure if it will be enough to mine BTC successfully. With the halving of BTC supply on the 18th of April It's going to be even harder. You'll need up to date miners to even have a chance.  

Thank you, Sir, I'm all in!!! 5 miners will get me to 1 bitcoin in the next 4-year cycle. 10 miners = 2 and a bit Bitcoins. Then go for the solar panels at some point till then I can subsidize the electricity bills with 2 Kasper miners Where I will take the money out every month to help pay the electricity as well as my teaching online which I've been doing for the last 8 years 15 years total teaching in Thailand. Anyway that's the plan whether it comes to flourishing or not is up to the Gods.

Personally, I wouldn't lose the existing single-phase supply, if it has a 15/45 meter that's an additional 45A! 

Nice I'm all about the amps baby LOL😃

Again, do you have a sparks you can use (the PEA chaps could be available for some moonlighting).

Yes that man in the photo doing the piping is moonlighting from the PEA I have his number, thanks again it is more clear now. Keep old 1 phase and at new box for 3 phase

Thanks Cossy

Your 50A 3-phase incomer is good for about 8-10 miners spread across the 3-phases, so until you reach that level, I'd keep it as it is.

Do you have a pet sparky who can do your wiring? There's a lot of energy and potential death in a 3-phase supply!

So the cost of this three phase circuit breaker box is from between 5000 and 12000? I can find a sparky but needed to do homework first such as how to do and cost of breaker box and how many miners I can put on the system because I will have to buy the more expensive miners like the s21 and s21 pro. Thanks again for all your help I've been here many years but it's like trying to get blood from a stone, especially at the PEA  I Had to tell them I wanted an electric car and extra voltage ampage for some machines before they would even entertain putting in the transformer. The price wasn't too bad in total about 40,000 baht all in. But from asking them to where I am now. it has still taken just under one year they said three months but they forgot to mention three months Thai time LOL. Thanks again for your help in this matter. The photo in this post is what I would like the little piece of land to look like with all the solar panels given the plants underneath some shade but that's just a pipe dream at the moment let's get the miners in the bull run over Then I can think about the solar panels

There's a picture of the new transformer and the electrician pipe in the thicker gage wire from my pole to the carport to the 50 amp fuse. The land that the electrician is standing on is my land of which in the future I'd like to put solar panels but let's get this bull run out of the way first. 

https://shopee.co.th/product/729803485/14493322323?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYSHhhXLphYXDqI5T6ztBLrUD3Q6WZPHDbh7WwdhB1wMtcLFoX9l7ExoC_QAQAvD_BwE

11 minutes ago, Crossy said:

OK, so you have two supplies and two meters.

 

I'd leave the existing alone.

 

Your 50A 3-phase incomer is good for about 8-10 miners spread across the 3-phases, so until you reach that level, I'd keep it as it is.

 

Do you have a pet sparky who can do your wiring? There's a lot of energy and potential death in a 3-phase supply!

I have only 1 meter with old breaker box for the villa and new box in the carport for the miners but have been advised to upgrade to a new Circuit breaker  board three phase for everything. Such as air conditioners 3 freeze drawing machine one Mining machines 5 to 10 Qustion with the last photo of the Circuit breaker box everything?