Mike Lister

Not even in the same book.

Can I ask which doctor you saw?

Following is a letter I received from DWP regarding my UK residency status, it may help some better understand the DWP position on things: I am responding to the email dated X April 2019 to which included the Rt. Hon Amber Rudd MP about your UK residency status. I should explain that due to the Secretary of State’s wide ranging responsibilities, it is not always possible for her to respond to every letter personally. In this instance I have been asked to reply. I was sorry to read of your concerns and on receipt of your email I arrange for your UK residency status to be investigated. I can confirm the International Group (IG) does not undertake Statutory Residence Tests (SRT). However, they did write to you on X December 2018 asking some questions about your residential status in the UK and abroad, this was to establish whether you are a habitually resident in the UK. As you have spent a significant time abroad we needed to establish whether you are now habitually resident in the UK. I understand that you returned to the UK on X July 2018, then left for an extended stay in Thailand on X November 2018 . As this was approximately 4 months after returning to the UK and because State Pension (SP) rates can be frozen, depending on the country of residence, IG required information to establish whether your stay in Thailand was temporary and to confirm that your country of residence is the UK. IG has accepted that you are habitually resident in the UK from X June 2018. Your SP is paid up to X March 2019 at £XX per week, Increasing to £XX per week from XX April 2019. It may help if I explain that your country of habitual residence is not decided on the number of days spent in a particular country. IG considered your individual circumstances, taking into account a number of factors such as: whether you retains a residence and continues to have financial commitments in the UK, when he goes abroad is your intention to return to the UK did purchase a return ticket do you own property abroad and have financial commitments in that country There are other factors which IG will consider when making a habitual residence decision and each decision is based on that customer’s circumstances. I have asked IG to write to you to confirm they consider your country of residence to be the UK. In the meantime, should you have any further questions about this matter you can write to, Complaints Resolution Manager, The Pension Service 4, Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton. WV98 1AG or by telephoning 0191 613 8158. Once again thank you for your enquiry, I hope I have clarified the current position.

Buying gold jewellery has always been a Thai persons line of revolving credit that can get hocked and repurchased easily.

I don't agree with the DWP response in the op, I think they made that response up to stop people from trying to uprate their pension by returning home and then leaving again. ( rewritten to avoid doubt about what I mean in this sentence) I returned to live in the UK in 2018 and because I was considered to be a returning expatriate who was now fully settled in the UK, my state pension was uprated for the first time in seven years. It took four months for DWP to acknowledge that and I had to get the support of my MP to apply pressure on the then Home Secretary, Amber Rudd. Ms Rudd delegated the issue to a DWP Team who wrote to me and acknowledged my status, by that time I was, to all outward appearances, permanently UK resident again. My objective was to spend 6 months there and 6 months here but covid came along and I was in Thailand when the music stopped. Two years ago I asked DWP to deposit my pension directly to my Thai bank account and this they did, continuing at the new rate. DWP explained that it's not about the number of days a person spends here or there, it's about their permanent and settled lifestyle which can involve spending years overseas and then returning periodically for fairly short periods..

My guess is that this is the voice of business speaking that wants to increase profits and reduce loan repayments rather than any concern for the impoverished poor. If anyone really wanted to help the poor, reducing central bank interest rates from 2.50% to 2.25% is probably not the best way and certainly not the only way. And as has been said previously, many many times, only Japan and Switzerland have lower rates, the primary reason for that is because inflation is still not tamed and lowering rates only exacerbates that problem.

It might, I don't know. logically it should but I can't say, sorry. If it was me I think I would give it a try, the rationale is sound.

It's probably more difficult to make the Revenue stop enforcing rules that they chose to enforce than it is to make them enforce rules that they don't want to! Ultimately it's their decision, their rules their country, all we can do is to be aware. But ultimately, every country has laws on its books that exist but are never enforced, nobody has ever said that only actively enforced rules may exist. https://brittontime.com/2020/11/09/10-weird-uk-laws-people-break-every-day/ https://eaglewools.com.au/weird-australian-laws-you-may-not-have-heard-of/aussie-fun/ https://forestgrove.pgusd.org/documents/Computer-Lab/Strange-State-Laws.pdf

"However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules", Some of the general rules relating to gift tax are found in the following link. https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Tax Payable on Assessable Gift Income&text=or a spouse-,On the amount of the gift received in excess of,a personal income tax return.&text=tradition or custom-,On the amount of the gift received in excess of,a personal income tax return.

I've made a second update to the document, I've fixed broken links, replaced a couple of para's with different wording and links and also updated the definition of assessable income to include the legal interpretation. Some wording has been improved and a couple of points clarified. If you spot things that are unclear, wrong, broken, please say.

Everyone's situation will be different of course but I do think there's more panic about this tax residency business than is warranted. The key issue for me is whether or not tax is being paid somewhere, if it is, the reporting part is simply overhead and effort but there will not be a financial burden for most people. I file three tax returns most years, at first this was a scary thought but later it became routine and is very quick and inexpensive. I file a US return to reclaim tax withheld on SSc income, a UK return because I have UK income and some years, a Thai tax return. I'm in a routine of recording my income from different sources so I can manage and control things if I'm getting into tax territory. There's only 365 days in a year, which means that whilst I have income that arises in in various countries and have to pay tax and file a return in different places, I can only be tax resident in two countries at a time, 180 +183, for me that's Thailand and the UK where tax returns are easy. In my younger days, things were more complex when I also had accounts in HK, Lux and Sing and that required effort, if you're in that situation, a tax advisor is a good idea.

Stop Press! The Revenue has already clarified matters: 1.Taxable Person Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html#:~:text=1.Taxable Person,any tax (calendar) year.

Re. Number 1 - if it weren't for the existence of the Personal Allowance, that tax free zone, the State pension would be taxable. But because the PA does exist, the SP is taxable but effectively at a zero rated band. The net is that the SP has been thru the tax return process, if the PA were removed tomorrow, the SP would be taxed at 20%. Re. Number 2 - I'm struggling with this. That income is not taxable in HK but when it is imported here it may be, you aren't a citizen (presumably) of HK, you only have an investment there so I don't think you can invoke a DTA, even if it were favorable to you. I think bottom line may be that it is Thai taxable but I'm not certain. Re: pre 1 Jan 2024 income - correct.

Anyone who stay in the country for more than 180 days in the same calendar year, is resident for tax purposes and is obliged to pay tax, regardless of their visa type. There is no if and or but about this, unless you want to provide a conclusive link to a reliable well established source, confirming otherwise. Calling somebody a tourist, a resident, a holiday maker or any other name, doesn't change the fact of the matter. "Residents are defined as persons residing in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year. Short-term residence is not defined under Thai tax regulations". https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/residence

This is incorrect. Any one who spends more than 180 days in the country, regardless of their visa type or status, is tax resident.

Number 1, the UK State Pension, is subject to the UK tax return process and even though no tax is paid on it, that means it is free of tax here. The key is that the income is subject to the process, not necessarily that tax is paid. Number 2 is slightly more tricky, presumably this is offshore income which depending on the relevant DTA, is likely tax able here, subject to TEDA. But it depends when the income was earned, if prior to 1 January 2024, it also is free of tax in Thailand. If earned after that date, the capital and interest need to be separated such that the capital is free of tax but the income earned post 1 January 2024 is taxable.

Sure, the link is below, the tax rates are at 31 and the TEDA at 33. We're currently working to proof read and make the document easier to read so bear with us.

Hahaha....Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances.

It's just that most people don't even need to get as far as considering TEDA because if their income is already taxed overseas in the UK, there is no need to file a return in Thailand.

But then it changes yet again here: https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Yes, you have been pointing that out repeatedly over the past 24 hours and I have explained repeatedly that no connection exists, I'm not sure how many times I need to say it for you to cease and desist or whther something else needs to happen: My First Post - As you wish! It's just that in Thailand I don't pay tax on anything under 12.5k Pounds a year! The more you earn, the more you pay in Thailand, that part is true. You are talking specifically about investment income and capital gains, my quote was not discussing those things, my mention was of general tax income. You are cherry picking your arguments! My Second Post - I wanted to satisfy myself that what I said earlier was true so I ran a quick back of the fag packet comparison. Below I compared, unscientifically, tax rates against Pounds and their Baht equivalents at 44. I assumed that the Personal Allowance and TEDA were similar, in the case of the Thai side, 350k + 150k zero rated. As you can see, the Thai tax rates are lower until they reach the range shaded in yellow and the UK has a 5% advantage, after which they diverge quite significantly once again. My Third Post - My post compared tax tables between UK and Thailand, It did not compare Capital gains rates or anything else. You wrote: "Your conclusion that Thailand is cheaper the higher the capital gains income is therefore dead wrong". This is your statement, not my conclusion! My Fourth Post - It is PIT tax tables that are being compared side by side, nothing more than that. The focus of the Simple Tax guide and these discussions, from our perspective has always been the average expat but with an emphasis on retirees on a pension because they are the ones who have expressed most concern at the new rule and the group from which most personal messages have come. The thread cannot realistically be expected to cover all types of tax, it was only ever intended to cover PIT.

Stop being argumentative and trying to make connections between things where no connection was made or intended. If you wish to compare capital gains rates, please do so, if you do not, please find something else that interests you.

Not that I'm aware

You can remit the money any time you want, there is no time limit involved. Does the money have to come from the same bank account? Technically, yes, if you take it from another account and claim that it's a proxy for that money, you complicate matters unnecessarily.

It's down to you as to what you declare and. To keep track of what is assessable