Mike Lister

https://www.siam-legal.com/thai-elite-visa/legal-applications-on-the-new-thai-tax-law-and-thailand-elite-visa-holders/

This caught my eye but I have been struggling to think of good alternatives to Dr Copper. There are lots of traditional indicators such as global PMI or the Baltic Dry Exchange, the latter still being useful, but nothing on par with simplicity of Dr Copper I'm afraid. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/baltic For anyone new to this idea, the following is a reasonable place to start. https://www.thebalancemoney.com/top-economic-indicators-for-global-investors-1979208 Personally, I don't think there's any substitute to reading something specialist such as Bloomberg, which works well for me.

Pension income earned in 2023 but not remitted until 2024 will not be taxable in Thailand since income earned before 1 January 2024 is excluded from the new rule. https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

A joint account is owned by the both of you jointly, an either/or account is owned by both of you separately. When you open an either/or account you both fill out account opening forms but you leave with a single account. With a joint account you fill out one application only. We're moving so far off topic here with the inheritance question that I have to draw a line I'm afraid, sorry, you probably ought to search for threads on wills and probate to cover that point or open a topic about it specially..

A good find regarding inheritance, thank you. Perhaps a better way to manage the school fees is for the op to receive them from his mother in some way, possibly as a Gift, and to pay them directly since he will be able to make use of the tax deduction whilst the mother cannot. This is what I had suggested previously but appears to have been misunderstood. That would be the more cost effective route but as said previously, raises questions in the mothers home country.

If you have a response for the OP and can improve on the one given, please feel free to provide it and I'm sure he will be grateful.

A good question, I need to think about that. But your joint bank account idea needs some thought because joint banks accounts are closed on the death of one of the account holders and the account subject to Probate. A better approach might be to open an "either, or" account which means that both parties own the account individually and separately, both can transact on the account independent of the other and the account will remain open if one person dies. One of the two owners must be nominated to be responsible for tax on the account, that can't be split. But be aware that a joint or an either/or account will not be accepted by Immigration for visa extension purposes which must be in your name alone.

I've decluttered the thread for the reasons stated, please don't be argumentative or disrupt the thread with off topic issues. If you have concerns about my actions, please feel free to PM me or Admin. I'll cut you some slack on this occasion but am likely to declutter again in the future and remove off topic posts.

Another nice and easy one I see! :) I'll need to do some digging on this, unless others know? The bits I do know are that inheritance in Thailand is exempt up to a maximum but I don't know how that plays out with the overseas angle. School fees are also deductible but only if paid by the parents. It might be that your mother can gift you those funds and they would be tax exempt on this end but I'm unsure about how that would be handled on her end since in many countries the gifter must survive the gift date by seven years, otherwise she is taxed. I'll watch for replies from others and if nothing shows up, I'll dig into it.

We've been thru this a few times already. The fact that there is no penalty for not filing a zero return, does not override the instruction by the RD regarding who must file a return. We cannot give advice that is counter to RD rules, even if posters think their alternate approach is more logical.

I have decluttered the thread and hidden 10 posts from view, only because they didn't contain any truly relevant information and were mostly chatty, thank you's etc. I hope I haven't offended anyone, if I have and you want yours restored, please feel free to say so. It's just that I want to keep the thread easily searchable and readable for new comers.

Can I just say that now, at the end of my first 24 hours in my new role, how much I miss the dozens of confused and sad emojis I used to receive each day. If anyone wants to give me a couple, just for the sake of nostalgia, that will be great. :)) Seriously, a great job everyone, it feels like we're making progress and that more people are becoming aware.

Thank you, I appreciate your efforts and comments, I will action them this afternoon.

Can I bring everybody's attention back to the purpose of the thread, the need to complete the document in the OP. We're still looking for gaps, errors, lack of clarity etc, if anyone can contribute, that will be really appreciated. Answering individual tax questions is OK but very wearing and a completed document will mean posters can answer their own questions.

Yes I saw that and thank you for posting that link earlier. The need to post a zero or null return was always my interpretation of the rules and is indeed what I have filed previously. But there was a substantial weight of posters who argued against that in the long thread and said that was crazy. Even now, that view still exists in some quarters. I believe we should leave the recommendation the way it is and that the RD criteria set out above is what the document will recommend. In the meantime, To be clear for everyone else, Thai tax returns should be filed, as long as the assessible income level is reached, regardless of whether tax is due or not. As and when the landscape changes, we'll let everyone know.

Yes sure, that's not unreasonable, but, we can't offer up alternatives that contradict the present rules thus I'm not quite sure how best to couch those alternatives.

I said at the start of the thread that we would not try to bottom out issues that remain unknowns, instead we would flag these at the end of the document and refer back to them when new information emerges. I wrote, "B. The conflicting need to file a tax return where zero tax is due (a nil return)". As things stand presently, Para 24 in the document reads as follows, based on the latest set of RD rules: 24. Who must file a tax return? The English language translation of the RD rule says that, "You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions: (1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year. (2) You were married and your income combined with that of your spouse exceeded 220,000 baht in the tax year." This is understood to mean assessable income. Until the RD provides further guidance, the above is the recommendation that we have to give. As and when the RD clarifies matters, we will change the above . Let's please not debate matters here for which poster opinion is different from the RD instruction.

The previous poster said that his pensions were within the UK Personal Allowance hence there was no need to pay UK tax. If his pensions had been higher than the PA and UK tax was due, we would have then explored what types of pensions were involved and whether the DTA offered any respite from tax when they were remitted to Thailand but this wasn't necessary. I explained that the Thai equivalent of the UK PA is TEDA which in his case, comes to a similar amount hence no tax is due. If his UK pensions were higher than the UK PA and he had been taxed, that could be used to offset any tax due in Thailand, under the terms of a DTA. Is that more clear or does it need more explanation? As a caveat to the above: we do not know at this stage, how the Thai RD will manage this whole rule change e business which is why the imperative currently is to wait and see what happens and what news emerges. There is a range of possibilities ranging from the really good news, eg, we changed our minds, sorry for the upset, to, we're going to tax quite a few things.....and anywhere in between.

I think the point is accepted that domestic gift tax rules are potentially useful, we'll leave it to the RD and the lawyers to determine whether repetitive international transfers that are circular are the same. The question has been asked and answered, now, we will move on please!

The money will not be taxed by the bank when it is received. If anything, that money should be reported on a Thai tax return as income but that will depend on whether you are Thai tax resident in the year it is received and whether your total income exceeds the threshold for filing a return. There is a separate thread on this subject and a document at the start of it that you may wish to read:

Only Thailand tax residents have income assessed for tax, that means remaining here at least 180 days per tax year. Any income received from any source, be it payment for work, remitted funds or ATM cash withdrawals constitutes assessible income.

The number you quoted, 12,575, is the UK Personal Allowance which only applies to the UK side of taxation. Thailand has its own system which comprises Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA). People of different ages and circumstances will have different TEDA's. As an over age 65 year old you are entitled to the following: 60,000 Personal Allowance 190,000 Over age 65years 100,000 (max) or 50% of pension income remitted In addition, the first 150,000 is zero rated for tax. That gives you a total tax free income of 500,000 baht, which in UK pounds terms is 11,300 approx so it's nearly the same as the UK Personal Allowance. If you are married you can claim a further 60,000 for your wife. Other TEDA exist for additional items such as life and health insurance premiums paid in Thailand. As long as your remitted income is below the figures shown above, you should be free and clear of tax in Thailand.

Below are sample copies of the tax form showing the structure of the form and examples of the TEDA (tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances). The TEDA codes used in the earlier examples have been updated to remain consistent with the RD terminology. The purpose of posting these forms is to familiarize you with them and to show where certain information can be found. I can't help very much with further information about them because I file online and the RD staff do this for me. When I prepare my tax return I do so using a basic spreadsheet and make the computation in advance so that I know what the bottom line is. I leave the form filling to the RD staff who are most helpful. Structure of Information in PND 91: Assessable income, exemptions, deductions, allowances (Revised) Abbreviations and Acronyms TEDA = Tax Exemptions, Deductions, & Allowances OAE = 190,000 (over age 65 years exemption) PD = 50% of pension received, max 100,000 (deduction for pension income received) PA1 = 60,000 (personal allowance for the tax filer) PA2 = 60,000 (personal allowance for spouse) ZR - zero rated for tax - 150,000 (the zero rated tax band in the tax tables) (Note: there are additional TEDAs depending on your personal circumstances but these are the major ones most commonly used)

Let me come back to this, now that I've settled down a bit. :) The way in which your offshore pension in IOM was funded initially doesn't appear relevant, even if you used taxed USD from your work in Thailand. The money that was earned in Thailand was exported to the IOM so at that point the connection ends, unless the contract for the funding of your offshore pension was established using a Thai company which seems improbable. I believe that leaves you in a situation that is very similar to many others here. You are retired in Thailand married and you derive income from an overseas pension. You will be entitled to at least 560,000 in tax deductions. allowances and exemptions each year (see below), possibly more, so the question is, how much more than that will you need to import each year because that will determine how much tax you have to pay. TEDA = Tax Allowance, Deductions & Exemptions PA1 = 60,000 (personal Allowance for the tax filer) PA2 = 60,000 (deductions for spouse) OAE - 190,000 (over age 65 years exemptions) PD - 50% of pension received, max 100,000 (deductions for pension income received) ZR - zero rated for tax - 150,000 (the zero rated tax band in the tax tables) (Note: there are additional TEDA’s depending on your personal circumstances but these are the major ones most commonly used)

I just can't see a majority of average expats being taxed in any meaningful way, certainly not retirees. There are around 300,000 westerns living in Thailand and over 4 million foreigners of all nationalities living here. The 300,000 import funds from overseas which help support local economies and aid consumer spending and the government knows this. The property market in place such as Phuket are dependent on foreigners and the industry would scream if it thought people were going to be taxed on transfers to buy property because it would kill the market stone dead.