Mike Lister

Perhaps I can ask you to let me know, when you find out, in case I miss it?

Detection is a different matter from, is it regarded as income, which it is.

I'm back for an hour then out again, in the meantime, I'll try to work my way through some of the 30+ notifications received in past couple of hours! All of the material statements in the guide result from discussions with and by members, not all of them from this thread, many from other threads. I have taken a view on each and when an answer appeared conclusive I have lifted it for inclusion into the document. As we go forward, people such as yourself are free to challenge any statement but will hopefully investigate it themselves first to confirm if it is correct or if an alternative is better suited, rather than merely telling me that something is wrong and leaving it for me to research! The objective here is to compile an accurate and complete guide and this endeavor will require assistance from everyone, I am merely the instigator and one of the drivers. I will be overjoyed if anyone wants to come forward and say, para number X is wrong, this is what should be said and here's the definitive proof and a link, ecstatic. BTW I hold the master of the document and after Y number of changes have been made to it, Moderator CharlieH will update the document in the thread, that's the process.

Break time I'm afraid ......finally! Back after my appointment. :)) The document is taking shape, thanks to contributions from several posters so many thanks for your help. It's a slow and iterative process but in a few days we should have something fairly complete and robust.

Partially. The primary purpose of the DTA is to identify which state has taxation rights priority over which funds. Other reasons include avoiding double taxation etc but a DTA is about each state protecting its rights rather than helping taxpayers with double taxation. :) And in most cases I believe that tax credits are issued rather than refunds, at least that is my experience.

My only regret is calling this thread and the document anything simple! :)) Good advice about unmingling comingled funds and also, obtaining valuations on every account, as close to 1 January 2024 as possible.

Just stop and think about it for a moment, what was written is a logical explanation and a distinct probability. It doesn't mean that foreigners are being targeted. It means that the rule that requires foreigners to file a tax return and pay tax, the rule that was relaxed for many many years, is now being enforced more firmly. Of course that means that some foreigners will have to pay tax where they didn't before but everyone has an obligation to pay tax plus that's a rule of our host country. And no, this rule is NOT targeted at expats, you know that full well because you've been told many times. The rule change is and always has been targeted at Thai's with assets overseas.

Have you read the document that has been written?

US SSc is my SSc pension, TG asked about proving its source.

If the DTA doesn't specifically exclude Thailand from taxing that income and/or if the DTA specifically forbids other states from taxing that income (as does the US/Thai DTA in the case of SSc), then Thailand can tax that income.

My US SSc is paid directly into Bangkok Bank each month. In order set up that direct deposit, I had to get the bank to sign the US SSc direct deposit mandate which was copied and kept by the bank and the original returned to Wilkes Barr. There is therefore signed proof in the possession on me, the bank and US SSc that the monthly deposits I receive are indeed US SSc pension.

The poster doesn't say whether private or state pension. If state pension yes, it's below the UK tax threshold given the level of the Personal Allowance. But it may not be below the level of taxation in Thailand because it is not exempt by treaty and the poster may not have sufficient deductions.

Because your income arises in the UK, the UK has priority taxation rights, Thailand has secondary rights, even though you live here and not the UK. .

Another para that I've lifted form another thread which I think is worth including. Just so that you know, these new inclusions are open to comment and change based on the best and latest knowledge we can find. The objective here is to produce a document that is as accurate and complete as we can make it. 1. Who must file a tax return? The English language translation of the RD rule says that, "You have to file a return on the income that you received if you meet one of the following conditions: (1) Your total income exceeded 120,000 baht in the tax year. (2) You were married and your income combined with that of your spouse exceeded 220,000 baht in the tax year." This is understood to mean assessable income. https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

Yes, maximum deduction of 25k.

Yes, we already included that in the write up but it's good that you saw it for yourself.

It seems the LTV received Royal Ascent and since the BOI is a functional part of the BOT, which reports to the highest authority in the land, I suspect they do have the authority to grant the exemption.

You keep repeating the same question but refuse to ask the expert tax consultant poster, refuse to ask the Revenue Department, refuse to consult a paid for tax expert, refuse to accept answers given to you by other posters, you just keep repeating the same questions, over and over like some dyslexic child. Between you and Grump you managed to extend the previous thread with utterly useless nonsense and in doing so, confuse everyone else and turn everyone off. Now you're trying to do the same here and in other threads. GIVE IT A REST.

If you have found a link that is out of date or incorrect, somebody needs to tell me and I will change it. I am not an expert, I am merely trying to consolidate information into one place for the benefit of others and to pass on the things learned from several months of debating this subject.

Revenue and Immigration are very different departments that behave in different ways. And, what happens in your/mine home home country has no bearing on what happens here.

delete

Great, if you've lived here that long you will easily understand that Thailand doesn't operate those notification systems, especially not for foreigners.

Whatever you find will be far better than anything offered by local companies here, simply because the rules are very different.

If tax officials issue a summons and it is found that no tax form has been submitted or the tax paid is less than due, in addition to the surcharge, the individual will also be liable to pay a fine of either equal to or double the amount of tax due, depending on the case. The fine may be reduced or waived as per the director's regulations, with the Minister's approval. From the above link. As well intentioned as you may be, I would not rely on the information in either of those links.

All is revealed here, all you have to do is read! A SIMPLE GUIDE TO PERSONAL INCOME TAX IN THAILAND 9 January, 2024 Version 5, Rev C 1. This purpose of this guide is to provide foreigners living in Thailand with the simplest possible over view of Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The scope of this document is limited to PIT. 2. You may have heard that new tax laws came into effect on 1 January this year, in fact, that is not true! The old tax rules still exist and remain valid, albeit just one minor change to them was made in November last year. Previously, anyone who earned money overseas and remitted it to Thailand in a different tax year, received that money free of Thai tax. That loop hole in the Revenue Department (RD) tax code has been exploited by wealthy Thai’s and is now closed, hence, any money earned overseas and remitted to Thailand in any year, is now potentially liable to Thai tax. The purpose of the new rule is to reduce tax avoidance. Unfortunately, it now means that overseas funds transfers by foreigners living in Thailand, also have an increased risk of being taxed. 3. This guide is an overview of the core parts of the PIT system. It is not designed to be exhaustive and it doesn’t cover all aspects of PIT, nor is it intended to override anything produced by the Thai Revenue Department or specialist tax companies such as Sherrings or Mazzars. This guide also does not address all types of income or the rules relevant to people from every country. What this guide will provide is a starting point for readers to manage their own tax affairs and it will also provide most of the answers for those with simple tax affairs, especially the average pensioner. 4. There are also certain types of visa that fall outside of the RD tax code. The LTR visa for example received its tax exempt status by royal decree hence visa holders will not to be assessed for Thai tax and they are specifically excluded from this explanation. 5. Terminology: this document uses the word “assessable” often. Assessable in the context of this document means income that is liable to tax which must be included on a Thai tax return. Not all income is assessable, some is excluded from tax assessment by its very nature or because of the terms of a specific tax agreement. There is assessable income that is taxable and assessable income that is exempt from tax, but "non-assessable" income does not really exist as an entity within the Thai Revenue Code. Consequently, readers should not think that some of your income is non-assessable. Taxable income = Assessable income minus exemptions, deductions, allowances. 6. Dual Tax Agreement/Double Tax Agreement (DTA): is an agreement between two countries that sets out which of the two countries has the right to tax specific types of income and all the associated rules. It’s purpose, in part, is to ensure that the same funds are not taxed twice and provides a means by which tax that is paid twice, can be recovered, how and from where. Note: If the taxpayer income is sourced in one country but the tax payer is resident in a second country, use of a DTA can result in increased tax being paid, if the second country has a higher rate of tax on the type of income in question, than the other. 7. This document is being drafted in January 2024. Tax returns are due between now and 31 March 2024 which cover the period, 1 January 2023 and 31 December 2023. The tax changes affecting foreigners in Thailand came into effect 1 January 2024 which means this years income activity is not reportable until 181 days from the start of the year, for year round residents it will be due 1 January next year, 2025. 8. If you stay in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days, between 1 January and 31 December each year, you will be and always were considered to be Tax Resident in Thailand during that year, regardless of the type of visa you have. It doesn’t matter that you may be Tax Resident in your home country or elsewhere or that you pay tax in those countries, Thailand will still regard you as Tax Resident. Tax Residency and Immigration status (and the visa you hold) are different things. Tax residency is based solely on the number of days you spend in Thailand and where you are at midnight on each day. 9. It should be noted that there always was an obligation on the part of foreigners who were tax resident in Thailand, to report assessable income every year, provided they meet the minimum income threshold. This law was not actively enforced in the past and many remained unaware of their obligation. Very little has changed today, that obligation remains unchanged albeit the scope of income that must be reported has now increased and tax collection has taken on a higher profile. 10. Because you are Tax Resident, YOU must review your income each year to determine if it is regarded as assessable to tax in Thailand, nobody else will do this for you. If your income does not exceed 120,000 baht per year, you do not need to file a tax return (60,000 baht if your only income is bank interest paid to you by a bank in Thailand). If your income is over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a Thai tax return between 1 January and 31 March. 11. Your income in Thailand is defined as any money paid to you inside Thailand, as well as, any money you receive from overseas, both types are potentially assessable income for Tax Residents. There are many types of income that can be classed as assessable, the Thai RD lists some of them and is linked below, however, the list is not exhaustive: https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20Thailand's%20Revenue,Pensions%3B%20and 12. There are also classes or types of income that the RD regards as exempt from assessment and these are also linked below: THIS IS A PLACE HOLDER FOR THE CORRECT LINK 13. Income that is derived from within Thailand is fairly clear, if you work and have a job and you are a Tax Resident, your income is assessable for tax. Interest that is paid to you on Thai bank accounts is regarded as income, as is income from investments such as stocks and bonds within Thailand. You should note that if you are generating income by working while staying in Thailand, it is (and has always been) irrelevant where that money is paid and whether you bring the money into the country or keep it offshore. That money arises in Thailand hence it is taxable here. 14. It is not possible to give the same blanket rule to everyone to determine whether income is assessable or not because of the variable factors involved. Overseas income has to pass several tests to determine if it is assessable to Thai tax or not. It is still early days and all the rules are not yet clear. It has been said that tax residents who import funds from countries that have a DTA with Thailand, will not be effected. Exactly how that will work leaves many questions unanswered hence this document attempts to look at only the most popular types of income based on what is known at present. This document does not speculate as to what may happen in the future, other than in the segment at the end concerning likely future Immigration rules. 15. First and foremost, only income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024. 16. The way in which the income is received in Thailand does not change its definition. Bank transfers, cheques, cash, overseas ATM and credit card transactions can also be income, the last two because overseas funds were imported to pay for goods or services in Thailand. 17. Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand. 18. US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessible income in Thailand. 19. The proceeds from the sale of a capital item such as overseas property, where funds are remitted to Thailand, is one popular source of funds, the sale of some investment products such as stocks, shares and bonds is another. Those proceeds typically comprise two parts, capital and profit. If the capital was acquired before 1 January 2024, it is free of Thai tax. One way to separate capital and profit may be to have an official valuation or statement that is dated 1 January 2024 since anything earned before that date, is not assessable. Also, if the profit has been the subject of a Capital Gains return in the home country, that also may be free of Thai tax but this cannot be guaranteed at this time, until things are made more clear and are once again subject to the terms of any DTA. YOU will need to review the DTA between Thailand and your home country to fully understand what particular clauses affect you. 20. It appears as though most property rental income that is remitted to Thailand is considered to be assessable income and is taxable here, unless of course it has been taxed in the home country and/or the DTA prohibits its taxation (which seems unlikely). 21. YOU are responsible for determining if your assessable income in Thailand exceeds the threshold and means you must file a tax return. That assessable income might comprise, pension payments, investment income, rental income or any of the other types of income listed in the link above. If you have assessable income of over 120,000 baht per year, you must file a tax return (60,000 baht if your sole source of assessable income is bank interest paid in Thailand). 22. Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you need to acquire a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You will need your passport, a valid and current visa or extension and in many areas, a Certificate of Residency from the Immigration Department. 23. Completing a tax return is a simple affair for most people, if you have difficulty, the Revenue Department staff are extremely helpful. Tax returns must be filed between 1 January and 30 March each year, if you file later than that, penalties will apply. 24. Thai tax is layered in bands and is payable based on the amount of assessable income that falls within each band and are shown and linked below: Taxable Income per year(Baht) Tax rate 0 – 150,000 Exempt 150,000 – 300,000 5% 300,000 – 500,000 10% 500,000 – 750,000 15% 750,000 – 1,000,000 20% 1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25% 2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30% Over 4,000,000 35% https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax 25. The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following: a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000 b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000 c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000 d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000 e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax 26. Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html or from Sherrings below. https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html 27. The Thai Revenue tax filing system is on-line but only available in Thai language at present. The tax forms are however available in English and they can be downloaded from the link below. https://www.rd.go.th/english/63902.html 28. A simple sample completed tax form for a person aged over 65 years is shown below as a guide. 29. https://aseannow.com/topic/1312534-taxation-of-ex-pats-pensions-etc/?do=findComment&comment=18532562 30. Tax filing in Thailand is based on the honour system, it relies on you declaring all the right information every year and there are severe penalties for evading Thai tax. It would be foolish and a gross under estimation of RD capabilities to think that doing nothing and keeping a low profile means you should ignore Thai taxation. Very few sane people in the US and UK ignore the tax authorities who tend to have a long reach. It cannot be ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country but it is not being enforced currently. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US. 31. The RD tax return requires taxpayers to report assessable income, the tax rules even list some types of income that are not assessable to help in this. In addition, some types of income, from some locations, for some nationalities, are also known to be not assessable. 32. If a taxpayer is certain that some of their income is not assessable, they may not want to declare it on their Thai tax return. Alternatively they may wish to ask the RD or employ specialist tax advisor's. It should go without saying that some taxpayers may try to suggest that some of their income is not assessable when really they don’t know for sure, or, they know that it is and say it that it isn’t, a sort of, chancing your arm and hoping you wont get found out. In that situation, the RD will not look favourably on such people and penalties are likely. 33. There are several sources of detailed tax information and these web sites are linked below: https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html https://sherrings.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax *** END ***