Mike Lister

Yawn.

Traditional custom in Thai banks was, at one time, that bank managers would often allow dependent spouses of deceased customers, access to joint funds without probate, especially where both parties had been known for a long periods, in local communities. I can recall that approach still being reported as in force in rural communities, within the past decade. I imagine that, with the passage of time, traditional practise such as that one will be mostly replaced by the letter of the law but it does no harm to register your will regardless since it may help grease squeaky wheels.

Yea, that too.

Copper Market’s Biggest Whale Fuels Speculation of a Major Shift State grid has been buying more aluminum and less copper Large-scale move to substitution could have huge demand impact In China, copper is legally required for certain types of wiring or power generation usage, so traders are on high alert for any sign of a policy shift. Photographer: Qilai Shen/Bloomberg By Bloomberg News July 16, 2024 at 8:57 AM GMT+7 Save For months, as copper spiked to record levels and then fell back down again, one key question has bubbled up across the metals industry: What is China’s state grid operator up to? The world’s single biggest buyer of copper, State Grid Corp. of China, has slowed its purchases of copper wire this year, while at the same time ramping up purchases of aluminum wire, a cheaper substitute. While arguably a natural response to soaring copper prices, the change has ignited a debate over whether there’s something bigger going on — if one of the metals industry’s most important but opaque buyers might be undergoing a shift in policy that could rock the global market. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-16/copper-market-s-biggest-whale-fuels-speculation-of-a-major-shift?srnd=homepage-asia

I predict a waning interest in tax threads is imminent.

Agreed, but it's the latest semi-tangible remark we have.

Comparing the US Revenue facilities with that of a developing country that is one fifth its size, isn't helpful. Arguably, Laos, Malay and Chinese are the second most popular languages here yet none of the forms are written in those languages. Immigration forms contain some English but English is way down the priority list, other than for overseas business and tourism, neither of which impact on Revenue to a great degree.

Yes sure, you don't have to, but it helps because it lets the manager see intent.

The will is superfluous with an "either or" account, since despite being joined, the account is actually two separate ones any way. But participants in a joint account will find the lodgement of a will helpful when one of them passes. This is because technically, a joint account should be closed at that point, despite one of the parties still being alive, the existence of the will shows intent and may be sufficient to allow continued access to the account. But the law, technically speaking, says that such accounts should go through probate, regardless hence this is in one of those areas where local tradition and custom comes into play.

Member @sometimewoodworker I believe, who has arranged a meeting with Big 4 tax accountants.

Er, providing free information and fact, as a member of AN.

Go find a Thai lawyer and they will write one for you, the cost is around 6,000 baht or so. If you can't find one, try Khun Sumalee Jennepa at 19 Tanin. She is an almost retired barrister who speaks very good English and has an excellent reputation. https://29tanin.com/

You need to write a Thai will and give a copy to your bank, there is no next of kin option here without one.

As author of the thread, I think this debate should be allowed to die, it's not constructive and not conducive to the spirit or purpose of the thread.

Rubbish! The poster asked a question and I responded. We had the discussion weeks ago regarding the video above and whether or not ATM/CC transactions could be assessable income.....the devate has been held many times over the months. The TRD officer at the latest Hua Hin meeting said they were, that's what I have reported back to the poster. I do not care one iota whether anyone files a tax return or not and I care far less if anyone pays tax, what people do is their business. I'm in the business of providing information and fact, is that getting through to you yet! To be crystal, the issue is whether or not those transactions are assessable, NOT whether they will ever be detected or taxed.

ACH only.

Sorry, which one? I see a lot of videos and most seem to contain incorrect information of some sort. EDIT TO ADD: Assuming the one below? The TRD has said in a presentation in Hua Hin that ATM transactions from foreign banks, can represent assessible income, ditto credit card transactions.

Does your home country Revenue makes forms available in Thai!

I'm not certain that the identity of the remitter changes the nature of the gift, which was made outside of Thailand borders anyway.

Utter nonsense.

Can you point us to anywhere in any of your posts on tax in the past six months that has a good word or anything positive to say about Thailand?

At the risk of annoying you even further......yes, possibly! Is your missus your legal wife? Is the joint account offshore or merely a joint account in your home country? The distinction here is that offshore accounts typically exist in tax avoidance areas (Caymans, Antigua, Hong Kong etc) and transactions from them attract more attention than from say a joint account at a high street bank in your home country. If you go the Gift Tax route, you should understand the rules, the most important of which is that once the gift is made, YOU must not benefit from the gift. A second consideration is that the gift is not regarded as a conjugal asset, it belongs solely to the giftee. Documenting the gift is important, as is the date, perhaps read the following: GIFT TAX 67) First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. What the Rules Say 68) The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. 69) If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. 70) The third scenario is not agreed by everyone and is contingent upon further input from the TRD. It suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. 71) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 72) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 73) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 74) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What Some Members Think: 75) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 76) Additional points on this subject are: a) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. b) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. c) Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property. d) Gifts made outside Thailand appear to be safe. e) The Gift must be formally documented and recorded, the more documentation the better. f) No more than THB 20 mill should be remitted to Thailand per year, unless 5% Gift Tax is paid on the balance. 77) Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds. .

The new forms and the revised online system will be available by November/December.

Right, but the account is not frozen, you can go into the branch and withdraw money, which is the whole purpose of the exercise, to make sure you are still alive and it's not somebody else who is using the account. If your US SSc is deposited into your account in the US and you die, the authorities will know and your payments will cease. If your US SSc is deposited into your Thai account here, using IDD, you will receive a proof of life certificate every year which you must sign and return. But if you deposit the funds into your US account and then do an ACH transfer, that could continue indefinitely with a third party using your debit card and nobody would know.

EDIT TO ADD: Whoever declares the remitted income, must be prepared to prove the source is what they say it is.