Mike Lister

If it's assessable income, the source and nature of the income needs to be understood before it can be taxed appropriately because different types of income attract different levels of tax. It comes back to which of you will declare the income and it sounds like you want her to. Given she will declare it, how will she do so, as a gift, because it sounds like that's what it is? But if she's then going to give it back to you once it hits her Thai account, it's not longer a gift so that route is closed. It doesn't seem she can declare it as income from the sale of investments because she didn't have any, unless the investments were in joint names. Cut a long complicated story short, you're flirting with tax evasion, which is illegal.

The account is not locked, it can be accessed by visiting the branch

From what I have read about this, it seems that many members have the same problem, which only affects those SSc accounts that transfer via ACH at BBL NY. Direct Deposits of US SSc to Thai based banks is not affected.

We've already been down that road many times and have said repeatedly that everyone should consider consulting an expert in Thai tax, if they have any doubts or concerns whatsoever. In the information guide we compiled (linked below), we repeat that sentiment about half a dozen times at least. The other point to make is that many of us have tried very hard to ensure that no tax advice is given here, only information about Thai tax and the Revenue Code, in fact, we have had a number of fallings out where members have tried to give advice.

Face saving exercise.

Whatever you want it to be is fine. .

I haven't assumed anything, that poster does tell us he's a pensioner who is remitting pension hence he's over 65 years: "a British pensioner is receiving a pension of £12,000 he currently pays no tax in the U.K. and has paid no tax in Thailand due to remitting the pension in the following year. He now has a Thai tax bill of ฿17,000+".

That's not really the correct interpretation. The purpose of a DTA is to determine which country has primary taxation rights over the various types of income and to set out secondary rights or even exclusions. It's too simplistic to say that a DTA prevents double taxation, despite what the revered YouTube says! In a worst case scenario, the DTA may switch the right to tax income from one low level taxation country, to another that taxes the same income at a higher rate.

I think you may have missed two TEDA elements, see my list above.

I find it confusing to make these calculations in two currencies. If the amount is 12,000 Pounds, at 45 that equalls 540,000 baht. Deduct: 60k Personal Allowance 190k over age 65 Allowance 100k Remitted Pension Allowance 150k zero rated tax band, that totals 500,000 baht The remaining 40,000 baht is taxable at 5% so 2,000 baht in tax or at 45 per Pound, 44 Pounds. "After perosnal allowance, age allowance and zero band, remainder would be taxed at 5% - total about 7.5K. But can also make deductions for spouse, insurance premiums....so about £14 a month". I rushed that and didn't check it but I think it's right.

That's not entirely correct because the terms of a DTA over ride national tax laws. That means that whilst a pension might be considered to be income from employment, the DTA may rule it as exempt, which would take precedent.

TEDA = Tax Exemptions, Deductions & Allowances, TRD terminology.

I agree, the US/Thai DTA specifically exempts US Social Security payments made to non Thai's in Thailand. Plus the UK/Thai DTA specifically excludes government pensions from taxation by anyone other than the UK.

"a British pensioner is receiving a pension of £12,000 he currently pays no tax in the U.K. and has paid no tax in Thailand due to remitting the pension in the following year. He now has a Thai tax bill of ฿17,000+ ". That part is not fixed in stone, it depends on the prevailing exchange rate and also the TEDA of the individual. I have TEDA of 560k per year which at an ex rate of 45 equals 12.7 k Pounds.

Well, that's the way it works so good luck finding a different answer.

I really cant help you with this, I'm sorry. There have been dedicated threads on this subject and member T&G may have a view (he usually does on most things)....here's one of his posts on the same subject.

Somebody more familiar with the Oz Superannuation program will need to answer your questions with more certainty but a here's a few pointers to consider in the meantime. You say your super is not income but the TRD doesn't see it that way, pension income is still income. The fact a pension is taxed overseas, typically means the taxpayer will need to declare the income and invoke their DTA to offset any tax paid back home, against any that is due in Thailand. I don't know what your DTA says about taxation rights of your super income but that may save you, have you read the DTA to understand what it says?

It depends on whether or not you or your Mrs declare the funds as assessable income. Just sending money from one account to another, doesn't imply a tax liability, it depends on what that money is and what it represents.

Agreed

That broadly fits with what I might expect from Big 4 here. I would expect a small/medium sized local firm to be one half to two thirds of that, ergo, 7k/12K fits about right.

I also believe that to be true and always have. But let's not delve into the history of personal attacks, or letter writing, or abusive PM's, or coordinated attacks, because all of that would be very embarrassing for one or two active posters.

GIFT TAX 67) First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. What the Rules Say 68) The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. 69) If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. 70) The third scenario is not agreed by everyone and is contingent upon further input from the TRD. It suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. 71) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 72) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 73) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 74) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What Some Members Think: 75) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 76) Additional points on this subject are: a) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. b) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. c) Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property. d) Gifts made outside Thailand appear to be safe. e) The Gift must be formally documented and recorded, the more documentation the better. f) No more than THB 20 mill should be remitted to Thailand per year, unless 5% Gift Tax is paid on the balance. 77) Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds.

Sometimes you need to be firm, if you want to get something done, deliver results and not just be a talking shop about every related subject under the sun.

I'll post a link to the gift tax section of the tax guide, when I get home later today.

Agreed