Mike Lister

An exaggeration, all Thai laws and the Revenue Code, apply equally to people of all nationalities, the same way they do to Thai nationals.

Nookie would have to declare that pension as assessable income and pay tax on it. Cyril could declare the payments were a gift but the frequency of them would likely come under suspicion and the TRD will probably ask for more information. Even though the tax burden had been transferred from Cyril to Nookie, the TRD would almost certainly view it as evasion, if for no other reason than that's what it is. The TRD would question how Cyril managed to maintain his life style in the absence of any income of his own. This would result in Cyril and Nookie both being fined and sent to the big house for a period of attitude readjustment, after which Cyril would be deported, blacklisted and destined to live in Morecambe forever.

Correct, because your time spent in Thailand spanned two tax years.

Here's the list of unknowns, in case anyone is feeling brave: k) - how does the TRD distinguish between principal (funds from legacy investments, inheritance, original investment principal) versus earnings (interest, dividends, remuneration) from commingled funds, determination of applicable foreign currency exchange rates for tax assessment, etc. P) - Returned to the list: The issue of whether income earned in a year when tax resident but remitted to Thailand in a year when not tax resident………….is it taxable? Many contradictory reports on this, even from within TRD and tax consultants themselves. Q) - Does the TRD regard credit card spending in Thailand, using a foreign credit card, assessable income. The early indication from the TRD at an embassy meeting is yes, it does. R) - Is foreign loan monies remitted to Thailand, considered assessable income, eg for the purchase of a vehicles, condos, property, etc. S) - If a foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, is the foreigner required to report that income, as if they themselves had received it directly?

I updated the tax document with the new gift tax information. And I thought yesterdays discussion about Gift Tax was one of the best, calmest most rational and productive debates these threads have seen....well done everyone.

The document in the OP has been updated to reflect our latest views on Gift Tax.

Somebody, somewhere, knows. Sooner or later they will tell us.

This is the draft of how it will appear in the tax document: First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. The third scenario is not agreed by everyone and is contingent upon further input from the TRD . It suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. There are substantial arguments for and against this being correct. What the Rules Say 66) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 67) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 68) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 69) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What Some Members Think: 70) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 71) Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds. 72) Two additional points on this subject are: 1) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. 2) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. Issues arise here when the receiver is the spouse of the Gifter and under marital law, the gift is regarded as conjugal property. Until this becomes more clear, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.

Let's put it on the list of unknowns and move on, what say you?

As a core principle we said that: The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. Then we said: The third scenario suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. If that third scenario is not true, neither is the first statement. That means the TRD does care what the purpose is of the remitted funds. They want to know if the remittance represents assessable income, or a Gift that will negate the assessability of that income. If the assessability of that income was negated, the gifter would surely have to report it, would they not? It doesn't make sense that the third scenario is not true.

Agreed

Bitdefender (free), you don't need much more.

Ah, yes, guilty then!

I suspect this was more about the fact the shares were in a company that she had an interest in rather than a plain vanilla gift of some kind.

If a Gift to a charity, you get to write that off as a deduction

1 - Laos....no, not assessable in Thailand 2 - I think yes, not everyone agrees. The jury is still out.

It's not conclusive yet, I don't think.

Again, I'm at least 51% in favor of it being assessable income. As others have pointed out we're into an area of pure speculation and guesswork, albeit intelligent guesses based on something or other. I don't think I can offer anything else to help decide this, one way or the other.

With @Dogmatix permission I will extract that comment so that others can better see it. "Another point from the French embassy video was that the Thai guy, who couldn't speak French, said in English that expenditures on a foreign credit card in Thailand are deemed as remittances. He said that taxpayers who use foreign credit cards in Thailand would have to submit their credit card statements, presumably translated into Thai, if not in English". @JimGant

Re. Rolex: where did the funds come from, which country, assessable income or not?

Is it not a remittance before it is a Gift?

Yes, example #2 is the only one that is not agreed. But the issue is not the occasion of the Gift, the issue is whether Cyril is remitting assessable income that he must declare on his tax return.

Okay, are you aware of anything in the Revenue Code that allows Cyril, in Example #3, to escape tax on the remittance or to write off that income or are you relying solely on the case study?

Let's make this as simple and crystal clear as we can for everyone: 1 - Cyril lives in Thailand year round with his lovely wife Nookie. He decides to give Nookie a present so he transfers 1,000 Pounds from his account with HSBC UK, to his wife's account in Thailand and says its a gift. Cyril's account at HSBC contains only savings that he earned a decade ago. The money that Cyril remitted to Nookie's account in Thailand was not assessable to Thai tax because it was savings earned before 1 January 2024. Nookie also had no tax liability because the amount was under the reporting threshold. 2 - The following year, Cyril decides to give Nookie another gift but this time the money, 1,000 Pounds, came from his account at Barclays Bank London which contains untaxed income he derives from his dealings in the UK. Once that income is remitted direct to Nookie's account in Thailand, it becomes assessable income that he must report on his Thai tax return. Nookie however doesn't have to report anything because the amount is under the Gift Tax threshold. 3 - In the third year, Cyril is fed up with Nookie so she doesn't get a gift and he transfers 1,000 Pounds from his Barclays account, to his own account in Thailand. That money is assessable to Thai tax and must be reported on a Thai tax return. Agreed?

Yes I agree with that part and always have. Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes, I'm referring to the funds that are gifted and their accessibility on the part of the giver, not the receiver. I'm going to go and take a nice walk and clear my head and come back to this.