Mike Lister

I have removed a post that was bickering and off topic. The subject is tax on expat pensions, nothing else.

Let's get back on track, please, Tax Clearance Certs are off the menu, move on.

You've been told by other members they think it's scaremongering and you've been told by me: 5. You will not use ASEAN NOW to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. Topics or posts deemed to be scaremongering, deliberately misleading or which deliberately distort information will be removed. In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source.

Sorry, in California

Tax threads are mostly of a factual nature, the implications of the subject can have far reaching impact on the lives of older more vulnerable pensioners. We need to be a little sensitive to that.

Unsubstantiated crystal ball gazing and whatifery, anyway, you're on California I believe.

We've already been round this loop several times, there's no reason to believe that tax clearance certificates will be required across the board, even if some people see it as a logical step. There has not been any official announcement from any quarter, saying they are being considered, hence discussing them now is upsetting for some people and is considered to be scaremongering.

There are simple ways to check since the Mastercard and Visa networks report all transactions on their networks to the BOT, not that represents a significant risk to most individuals. The key point however is, I wonder how much money people are prepared to waste, trying to avoid small amounts of tax. The combined effect of ATM charges and poor exchange rates, repeated several times each month because of transaction limits, probably means that the foreign account ATM route is the more expensive option, although I haven't done the math.

All of the announcements have already been made, everyone else has moved on. Those announcements about the changes to the tax rules having already been made, most everyone else is simply waiting for the end of the year when it comes time to file tax returns. The expectation that there will suddenly be a a big announcement, is not even remotely valid. That broad brush statement quoted from the Thai Enquirer last September means nothing. It was made prior to an important amendment to the tax rules in November last year and doesn't agree with any DTA from any country. It is therefore merely a throw away line that was made by an English language news paper that comes from an unknown source.

The OP may wish to visit the following thread and read the tax guide linked in the OP:

How seriously a person ought to take this depends where they are on the risk line. If a person has multiple rental units, and doesn't file a tax return, and has multiple large remittances every year also, their risk level is fairly high. The typical pensioner on the other hand, the guy who remits only his pension every month, is tucked away quite nicely on the low end of the scale. That's not to say that at some point, measures wont be implemented to catch the the high income guy that will also ensnare and inconvenience the average pensioner. I think that's the risk that most people face, collateral damage. Whether or not the average foreigner is more at risk than the average Thai, I imagine that they are. This is simply because one call to Immigration to activate tax clearance certificates and it's game over, the average Thai doesn't face the same threat.

It's a brilliant plan, it will work well, kudos for devising something other than moving countries.

The BOT lists the interest rates of all the banks and updates it daily. But they don't report the specials that the banks run which means you have to do the rounds of the banks to ask or check. It helps to have a large mall nearby so you can make one quick pass at lots of them. Don't expect great things, with a central bank rate as low as it is, no Thai bank is going to offer you anything truly interesting.

How difficult can it be to obtain a statement as at 1 January 2024?

1 - I think so, I don't know how you might prove that though, if asked. 2 - it would only be avasion if you didn't report it.

Below is the notice I posted when the thread was first started, please read it again and follow the spirit and letter of what is intended: Several members are itching to discuss ways of avoiding paying tax in Thailand and have been asked not to. This is because discussions about legal ways to mitigate/reduce/avoid tax, nearly always end up discussing illegal ways to evade tax, which must not be discussed here. Part of the problem is that these things are not always black and white and the area of grey that exists in the middle is often open to interpretation, which differs from person to person. If everyone promises to behave and not cross the line or play word games, we can discuss ways to legally mitigate/reduce/avoid tax. If however the discussions start to go in the wrong direction, not even a portable defibrillator will save it. It is therefore in members best interests to ensure no lines are crossed and ensure the debate is self managed.

They only need to prove the savings as at 1 January 2024 and that they existed prior to that date.

The following link describes the tax on digital assets that are imported. https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Were only eight pages in and already we've removed posts that described potential ways to evade tax and we've got a couple of members itching to talk around the subject, as close to the line as possible....it's NOT going to happen.

The only person who knows is the taxpayer, the person who completes the tax return. If they say it is savings, great. But if they say it is savings and it isn't, and the TRD decides to check and ask for proof...watchout

Once again, the issue is not whether the TRD will tax such things, the sole issue is whether it represents assessable income that should be declared on a Thai tax return.

Yes agreed. I'm using the term Gift Tax to cover all aspects of gifting.

That is sound advice. I purposely pay some tax in the UK and Thailand most years, I think it reflects positively, provides a useful paper trail and doesn't demonstrate a complete and total aversion to paying tax.

A post describing how to evade Thai tax has been removed, along with a link to the same. I could not have been more clear about what can and cannot be discussed here, that is strike one.

Your mindset is completely wrong on this. There will be no real time monitoring of ATM withdrawals and assessment of whether the person is a tourist or resident expat, that's so futuristic as to be unimaginable in Thailand presently. This entire conversation is solely about one thing and one thing only.....what is assessable income and what is not. It's not about whether you're likely to get caught; it's not about will they monitor this or that it's not about the various workarounds, discussions about those will not be held here! At this stage there is a question mark whether CC transactions and cash advances, using foreign cards in Thailand, represents assessable income for Thai tax residents. That issue has been put on the list of unknowns in the document, awaiting further research and clarification.