Mike Lister

An excellent post that reflects my sentiments also. I also agree that this thread is at risk of losing its way as a result of recycling old information and topics and the constant harping on about not being able to discuss certain aspects, which is patently untrue. I'm also getting a sense that the discussions currently are being dominated by a very small handful of members who I will ask to better rationalise their responses and opinions.

Your new thread post is not going to be allowed....why, you ask? I earlier wrote that members can start new threads about whatever their hearts desired, as long as: "it's with in the rules, doesn't overlap with existing threads, is legal, isn't scaremongering and if it's whatifery, that the opening post states that very clearly and also, exactly what its focus is. Your thread failed the above tests on multiple grounds, not the least of which was the inclusion of a list of things suggesting that members might possibly be subject to: Garnisheeing bank accounts for tax owed. Freezing bank accounts. Airport / Boarder warnings. (being detained until tax is paid on entry / exit) Deportation. Blacklisting. Seizing property. Stopping the sale / transfer of property. Arrest and imprisonment until tax is paid. Taxing your estate after death. I felt that you missed "snatch squads" off your list where foreign habitats in Thailand were patrolled by press gangs who might abduct unsuspecting foreigners off the street and subject them to torture and the third degree, regarding whether they owed tax or not!!! If all those things are not scaremongering, I don't know what is. It further failed on the basis that it was extraordinarily long and the whole point of it was unclear. We don't offer a post writing or editing service so it's down to members to write their posts in such a way that they conform to the rules, are easily understandable and in factual threads, sensible. Please don't tell us again that you have been forbidden to discuss a specific topic because you haven't, subject to the criteria listed above.

No, we always needed to care about it but didn't realize that we did.

Go start one.

No, a regular cc. Can't help but feel some of this thread attempt to fine tune the engine before the car hasr been built

I asked you not to post for the reason you mentioned, that was a request, it was not an edict and I know you understand that. You now also understand that you are able to start the threads you say you want because my post above confirms that. This is the last post in this exchange, either open new threads or don't, the choice is yours but there will be no further back and forth on this subject. If there's anything further you don't understand, PM me Admin or Support..

If you want to start a thread about any subject your heart desires, go for it. Just be absolutely certain it's with in the rules, doesn't overlap with existing threads, is legal, isn't scaremongering and if it's whatifery, that the opening post states that very clearly and also, exactly what its focus is. There is a huge difference between discussing Thai tax, which requires as much as possible to be based on fact, and discussing future what if topics such as Tax Clearance Certificates and enforcement rules that nobody is aware of. I have asked you in the past not to discuss some aspects of tax for the reasons I have explained to you at the time. We look for members to use common sense in these things but since you seem to want to push every boundary, start opening those dedicated threads and begin the discussions.

There is no such rule. Although I did ask that poster not to debate the topic in the long thread because it was regarded as scaremongering and many members told us that. It's fine to mention them, as many of us have, but having a full scale debate in the tax thread is not in anyone's bests interests, especially since there is no indication they will ever be widely adopted.

KH: you seem to constantly mention the things that you believe you are not allowed to discuss rather than opening a dedicated thread that discuss such things. I've already opened one for you on Tax Avoidance, because you complained constantly. Please don't tell me I need to open one for you on Tax Clearance Certificates also! If and when you do decide to open a thread on that subject, be certain to caveat the opening post by stating that there is no requirement at present for the general expat population to acquire them, nor has there been any news or even the slightest indication that they will be in the future.

That SWIFT code denotes Kasikorn Bangkok, the head office, from their the HO will identify the branch and account number. Kasi HO will report that transfer to BOT as part of its regular reporting.

Most Western countries have reporting thresholds that are activated when certain levels of deposits are made. In the US this was previously known as the 10K rule where bank reporting was initiated. In the UK the level is even lower, if the deposit is in cash, it's very low. Of course Thailand has similar, this is one of the reasons why remiters are required to state the purpose of the transfer. That process is already active and has been for many many years. I bought a condo here in 2004 and remitted 6 mill and was called by the BOT to ask what I intended. I explained I was retired etc etc and that was the end of it.

Sorry, I understood you to refer solely to credit card issuers rather than overseas bank accounts. I agree CRS requires the potential for information sharing but credit card issuing banks alone, I don't believe so. If I live in the UK for example and obtain a stand alone Barclaycard for use overseas, I wouldn't expect Barclaycard to report any of my spending to Thai BOT but would expect the network that operates in Thailand to report it.

You use the term, "Thai Government" and "they", both of which are rather nebulous imprecise terms. I tend to think of those things as components that comprise a more lasting and permanent infrastructure that is fit for purpose. This includes the Central Bank infrastructure, the Civil Service Mandarins, the wealthy elite and others. They are the entities who fully understand the importance of having an infrastructure that is durable and acceptable. Governments come and go, the next layer down is in place for the long haul. Nobody is going to implement a system that interrupts the money trail or one that has the potential to do so. Nobody is going to implement a system that potential interrupts the inward flow of funds and without doubt, a with holding tax on remittances does exactly that. Thailand may not care a lot about foreign residents but they definitely don't want to develop an international reputation for not being foreigners friendly that is easy to do business with because that would cost them inbound FDI, international tourists and large amounts of face. Imagine how it would be if international property buyers suddenly found themselves subject to a withholding tax on that Phuket villa they intended to buy, the market would stop dead and there would be an uproar. Imagine how the general population would react is Soi 6 Suzy suddenly found she was receiving 2k baht less each month, because the government was taxing her monthly stipend, they'd be up in arms.

He's still around but not here.

Overseas issuing banks will not report anything to Thailand but the Mastercard and Visa networks, the transport layers, report extensively.

SWIFT is an optional subscription based messaging system, members report ALL SWIFT or international transfer activity to BOT but SWIFT is not required to report.

Thai banks are agents of the BOT, they report vast amounts of information to them regularly, loans, balance sheets, NPL's foreign currency transactions etc etc etc, BOT sees it all. Whether or not BOT makes that information accessible to other government departments is debatable, but would you think on this point!

Several members are itching to discuss ways of avoiding paying tax in Thailand and have been asked not to. This is because discussions about legal ways to mitigate/reduce/avoid tax, nearly always end up discussing illegal ways to evade tax, which must not be discussed here. Part of the problem is that these things are not always black and white and the area of grey that exists in the middle is often open to interpretation, which differs from person to person. If everyone promises to behave and not cross the line or play word games, we can discuss ways to legally mitigate/reduce/avoid tax. If however the discussions start to go in the wrong direction, not even a portable defibrillator will save it. It is therefore in members best interests to ensure no lines are crossed and ensure the debate is self managed. I’ll start, if you want to avoid paying tax in Thailand: 1) Do not become Thai tax resident by remaining in Thailand more than 179 days in any calendar year. 2) Do not remit more assessable income to Thailand than your tax allowances/deductions/zero rated tax band (TEDA) allow. Over to you!

I've seen several statement that ponder...... how does the TRD ensure enforcement and compliance with the tax law? I put it to you that if any tax payer in any country, went to their revenue department and asked them to explain, "how do you enforce compliance with tax regulations", nobody in their right mind would expect a full and complete answer. These are things that are discovered after the fact as taxpayers begin to join up the dots. Announcing what those measures are publically and beforehand, is virtual permission to start designing ways to circumvent them! So, if anyone is waiting for an announcement on this, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Thai banks are not offshore banks, (although, some of their foreign currency accounts share some similarities with offshore accounts). The reality is that when funds, be they USD, GBP, YEN, or any other currency, are remitted to Thailand, they physically arrive in the country, it's not as though they do not, just because they arrive into a foreign currency account. If however that currency arrived here and was deposited into a non-resident foreign currency account, the BOT (and their agents the Thai banks) and the TRD, would treat those funds as offshore funds, for accounting and tax purposes. In that case, the funds would only actually arrive in Thailand for tax accounting purposes, once the foreign currency was converted into THB and withdrawn. But since the account owner is not Thai tax resident, there is no taxable event as a result. So, the first question is whether the foreign currency account at the Thai bank is a resident or non-resident account, because that makes all the difference to the answer. The second question is: if a foreigner opened a non-resident foreign currency account in Thailand, on the basis they are not tax resident here, what would happen to the status of that account, if one year the foreigner became tax resident and continued to operate the account? The answer is that the the account would revert to a resident foreign currency account as soon as the change in tax residency became known. The account would then be regarded entirely as an onshore account and provide no protection from tax whatsoever. In that case, any withdrawal of funds from the account, in any currency, would trigger a taxable event. AND, any past remittances received into the account, during the year the account holder was tax resident, would become taxable retroactively.

You couldn't make it up if you tried. 🙂

Rutnin Eye Hospital bangkok. https://www.rutnin.com/en/home/

Only funds that are remitted to Thailand are potentially taxable, Thailand does not tax global income.

One of the many problems with this long tax thread is that topics get debated and then forgotten and lost so necommers such as yourself try to reinvent the wheel. It was long ago very quickly determined that a with holding tax on remittances stands absolutely zero chance of being implemented. Banks do not know what remittances are assessable income nor which account holder is tax resident. Holiday makers who have Thai bank accounts will stop vacationing here if their holiday money is suddenly taxed and property buyers will stop buying property is the purchase money is taxed.

The subject has been heavily discussed in this forum for the past six months, one thread has over 8k posts. There is also a document that has been produced that explains much of what is required. I'm away from my computer at present, perhaps another member will post a link to the simple tax guide.