Mike Lister

Western expats are about 300k of that 4 mill., the rest are from neighboring countries. That is about 0.5% of the population.

Your wife, and you, have an option to reclaim the tax by filing a return or allowing the revenue to keep the tax as full settlement, in which case no return is due.

Nooo, they can't have it, it's just for you. 🙂

Yes of course, agreed completely. It's just that I view a tax exemption and a tax avoidance measure as dissimilar, although I concede it is almost semantics.....unsure. Tax avoidance is a slightly more aggressive and less obvious course of action than an exemption that would be openly listed in plain sight.

Yes

I don't believe it extends to grandchildren. Children can be counted as a deduction, up to age 26, as long as in full time education. Here's the link to the PWC 2023/2024 tax guide, you'll find all the deductions/exemptions in there. https://www.pwc.com/th/en/tax/assets/thai-tax/thai-tax-booklet-2023-24.pdf

That's not quite a tax exemption, more of a tax avoidance. Anyway, that answer got poo poo'ed earlier.

The offices I use in Chiang Mai are the District offices 1 & 2 which are quite large and contain around 50 staff I guess. The Regional office is elsewhere in the city. I'm sorry I can't speak top the structure or capabilities at the more rural offices.

You can ignore the word "employment" on the link to the tax guide, it displays that way as a result of something to do with forum software but we have been unable to find out the reason why. I think it picks up a link from somewhere in the document but we don't know which one.

It's not only strange, it doesn't seem correct, unless you view it in the context of onshore and offshore and that was the very reason the tax rule was changed in the first place!

Further to my earlier post regarding tax exempt foreign investments, PWC says this: "Furthermore, provided certain conditions are met, gains or benefits from registered provident funds, retirement mutual funds, long-term equity funds, and national saving funds, including amounts derived from insurance or social security funds, are also tax exempt". https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination My take on those funds is that they are all domestic instruments rather than foreign.

Before we get into a long exchange on this point, let me explain the situation regarding the 190k over 65 years deduction. The TEDA (tax Exemption, deductions and allowances) for over 65 year olds are very generous. Initially I had not believed that a separate deduction of 190k was allowed and that the 190k was merely an extension of the first tier of the tax tables (190k vs 150k). After much debate in the long tax thread, several posters came forward to clarify that the 190k is a separate deduction, and that the first tier of the tax tables isn't adjusted, it remains at 0 - 150k for everyone. Those posters said they have been claiming the 190k deduction for many years. I can understand how some accountants outside Thailand may have some difficulty understanding this point because there aren't that many references that clarify exactly what it is. By the same token, a deduction of 50% of pension income exists (max 100k) in the same way that a deduction of 50% of earned income exists (max 100k), the former being true, even if the pension is from overseas! Strange but true. "In order to support low income earners and the aged, the first THB 150,000 of net income is tax exempt. For a resident who is 65 years of age or older, an exemption is granted on income up to an amount not exceeding THB 190,000". Note: The second sentence does not replace the first one, it is in addition to. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination

I think this may be the difference between investing in an overseas investment fund, overseas, and investing in an overseas fund from within Thailand. It is very clear that any Thai tax resident who invests in a "foreign investment fund or Depositary Receipt", overseas and later remits the income from that profit, to Thailand, is liable to Thai tax. That scenario is the key driver for the new tax rule change, to capture people who have previously avoided tax in that way. I think we can say with great certainty there is no tax exemption associated with that, agreed? What that leaves is the possibility that investing in a "foreign investment fund or Depositary Receipt" from within Thailand, say via a Thai bank or investment house, is exempt. If that was the case, it will be the first time in over six months of thousands of posts that anyone in all these tax threads has heard of it and it would also make little sense. What that would mean is that making the investment via a Thai bank was a more cost effective way to make the investing, rather than investing offshore directly, but that the Revenue would relinquish any opportunity at tax, on the income. That would also mean that investors are incentivised not to invest in Thai companies but instead to invest in foreign companies. On the upside, such a measure would benefit the SET trading and Thai banks. A depository receipt is designed to promote domestic trading of international companies thus avoiding the need to invest overseas. "A depositary receipt (DR) is a negotiable certificate issued by a bank. It represents shares in a foreign company traded on a local stock exchange and gives investors the opportunity to hold shares in the equity of foreign countries. It gives them an alternative to trading on an international market". https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/depositaryreceipt.asp The following link is from the SET which shows the tax on domestic equities acquired in Thailand. Whilst it is possible to escape capital gains, it is not possible to escape with holding tax on interest or dividends. If it is true that investing in a "foreign investment fund or Depositary Receipt" inside Thailand, escapes all tax, I'm left asking, why? https://www.set.or.th/en/market/information/tax There is a final possibility that I can imagine and that is that the article is not complete and isn't adequately specific about what that exemption might involve. I can imagine there might be some classes of DR or investment funds that might be made tax exempt, BOI related companies is one. But the idea that all foreign funds are exempt, doesn't seem credible. If anyone can see any other likely options, I will be interested to hear them.

Correct. The rental income derived from overseas property is not taxable in Thailand, as long as it remains overseas. But, if that income is remitted to Thailand, it is assessable to Thai tax.

"However, there is an exemption from being subject to income tax in Thailand by meeting one of the following conditions: The individual must not reside in Thailand for 180 days or more in a particular tax calendar year. Invest on a foreign investment fund or Depositary Receipt. Does not bring an income from overseas into Thailand". Number 1 means the tax payer is not Thai tax resident Number 3 means the funds are not remitted to Thailand Both of the above are very straight forward I think. Number 2 is investing in an offshore fund, which as long as it remains offshore, is not taxed here, (albeit it might be taxed offshore when it is encashed). The moment it is encashed and the funds remitted to Thailand, they are taxable here.

Your numbers are not correct, you've used 190k in place of the 150k zero rate band. The numbers I posted originally remain correct. Plus the poster doesn't say that he's married or have health insurance hence I'm not going to make that assumption. We both agree that he is entitled to the 60k personal deduction, We also both agree he is entitled to the 100k maximum for 50% of his pension payments. The next deduction is for 190k which is the over age 65 years allowance, this is a separate deduction and not part of the tax tables. Those things total 350k. The OP says he receives 460k in pension payments, I have to take his word for this so that's the number we'll use here. Deduct 350k from the above and that leaves 110k assessable income. Apply that assessible income against the tax tables, of which the first 150k is zero rated and the op doesn't owe any tax. The tax tables are here: 0 to 150,000 THB is exempted from income tax. 150,001 to 300,000 THB is subject to a 5% tax rate. 300,001 to 500,000 THB is subject to a 10% tax rate. 500,001 to 750,000 THB is subject to a 15% tax rate. 750,001 to 1,000,000 THB is subject to a 20% tax rate. 1,000,001 to 2,000,000 THB is subject to a 25% tax rate. 2,000,001 to 5,000,000 THB is subject to a 30% tax rate. 5,000,001 THB or more is subject to a 35% tax rate.

It's been some time since this was first mentioned in the long tax thread, it was so because one posters wife had applied for one of the roles. Much more than that I can't tell you anything further since nobody has raised it since. I personally would never deal with my Amphur or tessaban Revenue office, I only ever go to District which is in the center of Chiang Mai and the levels of English there are good, they are very helpful and knowledgable.

I agree, one of the three. That means that a person who is not Thai tax resident, ie spends less than 180 days per year in Thailand, is exempt from tax in that year but th exemption doesn't exist in the years when they are tax resident. Alternatively, if the funds remain overseas, they are not taxable in Thailand, it's only when they are remitted to Thailand that they become taxable here. That's the way it has always been, the current year issue not withstanding.

What that says is that there is an exemption from Thai tax, as long as the funds remain overseas or the taxpayer is not Thai resident. So no, it's not contrary to anything else at all.

I was a US Green Card holder for eighteen years until I surrendered the card in the 1990's. I was required to obtain a certificate before I left for overseas, if that has subsequently changed I'm extremely happy for everyone else. But to be clear, the example is demonstrate how the system works, nothing more. EDIT TO ADD: I was curious about this so I checked the current status and those certificates appear to still be issued but I have not dug into it very deeply. "If you're a resident or a nonresident alien departing the United States, you usually have to show that you have complied with the U.S. income tax laws before you can depart. You do this by obtaining from the IRS a tax clearance document, commonly called a departure permit or sailing permit." https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc858

Once again this is all conjecture and whatifery at this point. But what can be said is that the UK government, for example, in the case of non-doms and overseas cards, considers credit card payments as assessable income. What also can be said is that in the case of credit card charges in Thailand, using foreign cards, several entities see those charges, before they leave the Thai borders. These include, the merchant, the merchants bank and the Central Bank, the latter because a foreign currency exchange transaction was involved. There is therefore little need for the TRD to require those records from overseas.

This aspect is all conjecture and whatifery and can't really be assessed currently. What other countries such as the US do is to require Green Card holders to obtain a tax clearance certificate from the IRS, before they can leave the country. That relies on a discussion between the taxpayer and the IRS to determine whether all tax requirements have been satisfied. Exactly how that might work here is very uncertain, especially since some people have no assessable income and others will have to file a tax return. I suggest this issue be filed under, "worry about it later, if and when it happens".

Your annual pension income is 460,000 baht. Your deductions/allowances/exemptions are 190,000 (over age 65 allowance) plus 60,000 (personal allowance) PLUS 100,000 (50% of pension income deduction, to a maximum of 100,000), for a grand total of 350,000. That leaves 460,000 minus 350,000 or 110,000 baht to be applied against the tax tables. The first 150,000 of assessible income is zero rated which means you have no tax to pay. I cannot speak to what the Australia/Thai DTA might say but I don't see that it would impact the calculation above, in any way.

Which Stage Are You At? 1) Denial - it’ll never happen 2) Anger - bloody incompetents, they don’t tax their own people so they tax us, low hanging fruit 3) Bargaining - I could spend 179 days here and then holiday in Cambodia for 7 days and then….blah blah 4) Depression - I’m so pissed off, me and the wife we’re leaving and going home 5) Acceptance - Well, it’s only going to be about 12k baht per year so not too bad.

I have to get this off my chest with regards to Bob and this thread. There was one post that somebody made that I reported and was hidden from view, because it was so venomous, spiteful and so far OTT that it should never have been written, let alone posted. It doesn't surprise me that Bob left after reading it, which I'm sure he would have. I saw similar when the pack was chasing after GG, some of the comments went way beyond what is reasonable and were designed to hurt and nothing more. But because it's the pub and posters want to express themselves and have light moderation, those posts were left in place. Do you see the problem here.