Georgealbert

I think the time is still some way off. The new Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, is still to clear the House of Lords and go back to the House of Commons. A calling of a general election would probably stop the bill, and it may or may not be taken up by the next government. Without the new bill, DWP will still rely on existing legislation, without the additional powers of access to information. If the bill is passed, here is the expected timeline to get the new systems in place. “The new system will start to be rolled out in 2025 though some banks may not be on board for a further five years. The DWP estimates it will cost around £30 million a year for them to investigate potential fraud identified by the new system but will save taxpayers £500 million a year through reduced fraud and error. Officials have also estimated that over the first 10 years, the new powers will result in an additional 74,000 prosecutions and 2,500 custodial sentences.” Source - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/dwp-bank-checks-see-74000-28240436

I think that the gov.uk guidance, posted earlier, that says that state pensions cannot be stopped or reduced, is not clear, and clearly people can be penalised on their state pensions. A bit of quick research, seems to show that DWP are using sections 111A and section 112 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 to prosecute any benefit fraud. Full CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) for prosecuting welfare and health fraud cases linked below. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/prosecuting-welfare-and-health-fraud-cases

Not sure what you are trying to point out. That link has been posted and discussed earlier in the thread. That full section on gov.uk also says only certain benefits (sanctionable) can be stopped or reduced. State pension, is in the section that can not be reduced or stopped for benefit fraud. Evidence posted above shows that DWP do not follow these guidelines.

Pensions are nothing to do with HMRC, but are dealt with by DWP, and there is very little link up between the two agencies. The governments, seems to think the new bill, will bring in savings of 10s of millions per year. No idea how many have not informed DWP they live abroad, as it’s everyone’s personal choice and none of my business., but don’t think exposing themself on an open forum is a good idea.

The no right of appeal is against the deductions only, seems there is some rights of appeals against the decision, but I have no idea what you could base any appeal on. Another page of @Pumpuynarak letter, which was not posted above.

Sorry for that assumption. Think that makes it even worse. Seems if the new bill is pasted, there maybe more attempts to catch people, but it could be 7 years before those things are fully in place.

Seems that the information on the gov.uk website is not a clear cut as I thought. Apologises to @Mike Lister With the information from @transam and @Pumpuynarak, it clearly shows that DWP, will fine, recalculate the pension and take any back over payment, from the state pension. No court is involved, with DWP issuing the penalties. Below is @Pumpuynarak letter from DWP.

Thanks for that. That is the second one in the last hour that shows DWP will and do prosecute and penalise, those they catch. The new bill and powers will just make it easier for the DWP

So it was taken out of your state pension, and you were not receiving any other benefits? Would it be ok if I repost the first 2 pages as pictures, as not sure many would want to download to read?

That makes interesting reading and should worry a few on here, who think themselves untouchable. So you were fined and had to repay the over payment Without being rude, can I ask if you appealed or had to make a lump sum payment or was it taken from your regular pension payments?

Yes I agree their payments were adjusted to the correct rate. I am not here, supporting or criticising people who do not tell the DWP, just looking at facts. Personally everyone is aware I live in Thailand, and I also think those boosting at anytime about any fraud, is a bit silly, to exposure themself to any risk. Can I ask a few questions about your friends, no problem if you do not wish to answer, but it would give some more awareness of the situation. 1. Were they convicted of fraud and the pension reduced, or was the new amount a recalculation on the new information? 2. Were they fined for the fraud? 3. Were they claiming anything more than the state pension (i.e. pension credit) ? 4. Was their state pension payments at anytime stopped? 5. Were they required to pay back the over payment? Thanks

Yes we will have to agree to disagree. But I still say I have provided clear written facts from a credible source, gov.UK, that is in plain english and states the UK state pension cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud. A government minister or DWP can only state what is written policy, and I have found zero case history in the UK about fraud fines being ordered to be paid from state pension, I doubt many lawyers would even offer an opinion on this, and think it is very unlikely ever to go to court. As always I am happy to read, review and update my opinion, if anyone can provide me with credible evidence or proof to what is in the gov.uk link, being wrong Sorry but I believe my link to gov.uk is far more reliable than a youtube video, from Pattaya Media Group, which is probably just quoting for a syndicated opinion piece online. I look forward to any evidence or links that prove me incorrect and happy to apologise if necessary. Have a good day, and i appreciate you replies.

Sorry but just because you don’t use technology, certainly does not mean others do not. Most modern industries, use online meetings, to ensure everyone is always involved and time is not wasted getting everyone in a meeting room, which maybe in a different location or country. Planes have Internet connections to allow those that need it, to stay in touch. Many phone app are also used by industry, such as in recording data, conducting inspections, recording site inspections and even emergency incident command, etc. Many people need to be in communication at most times, to make decision, act on developing situations, authorise actions and support others. The world has changed, and technology is part of that world, it has not dumbed it down, but has allowed fast, effective communications and allowed better information spread, to those that need it.

Sorry but you do know that your EarPods also have a Li-ion battery in them, same as the type used in phones.

Sorry missed the quote in my reply to you above.

I stand with my comment, the state pension can not be stopped or reduced. I take that to mean for anything, including a fine.Yes I agree other benefits can be stopped or reduced. Even your quoted section supports my view, “But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead.” Whether a court could direct automatic payments, I have no idea, but I can find no case history of a court ordering an automatic payments from a state pension, for a fraud fine. i can also see no reason why the UK government lists the different types of benefits that can and can not be reduced, if they could just take payments for a fine from all. Under the section of the link you posted, are 3 lists, Sanctionable benefits, Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped, Exceptions. You may read it differently, but I read this as the state pension is untouchable

I have a personal savings account, but under the headings on the app it only lists business accounts. This seems to be just the terminology being used by K Bank. Mine is a personal account and is still listed as such on the banks web site.

UK government website states that state pension cannot be reduced or stopped even if you commit benefit fraud. The issue may arise if you are receiving other benefits, additional to the state pension, all benefit types are listed in link below. My reading of the link, leads me to believe that state pension payments can not diverted to even pay a fine, under the current law. Can not find anything in the new bill that seems to change this. Happy to hear and see any link, from official sites, that says differently. https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud#:~:text=If you've committed or,may be reduced or stopped

Yes agree with most of what you say, but phones are not the only risk, are you suggesting all Li-ion battery devices are banned from use on flights? Would a business traveller want to be denied use of their laptop? The fire containment bags currently in use on aircraft are not that small, and does the small limited risk, which current measures seem to handle, warrant the expense for airlines. The containment bags would just be another souvenir for passengers to take with them, enough life jackets are already being taken. Source - https://avsax.com/

Just stating the facts, and why deployment of the oxygen masks, pose little risk of causing an explosion, as the masks are not free flow and are not likely to make the cabin an oxygen enriched atmosphere. The masks would not have deployed automatically, so the cabin crew decided the cabin atmosphere was not a risk either. If you do not like facts, up to you.

Yes agree, and I would like to see a general election as soon as possible. But the government appear to think, they can promote this bill as something they can boost about. There are 203 amendments listed for the committee stage in the Lords, and most seem very minor changes, but no timetable for the committee is scheduled yet. If the third reading in the Lords is completed, there seems to be little serious opposition in the commons to passing it into law. The SNP seems to be the only party wanting to show their opposition the bill. Commons third reading vote.

Seems the timescale to fully bring in the proposed new rules will take 6 or 7 years to be introduced. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/dwp-confirms-start-checking-up-32212234 https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/dwp-confirms-full-list-dates-28677547?_ga=2.35146793.98268707.1709038661-1235858373.1709038661

Think the new bill is giving the legal requirement for bank details to be shared. “Amendments to the 2022 Data Protection and Digital Information (DPDI) Bill will potentially grant the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) powers to snoop on the bank accounts of benefits recipients, ostensibly to clampdown on fraud” https://positivemoney.org/2024/02/how-the-government-is-spying-on-our-bank-accounts/

They were both informed on, by others who know them in Thailand. Then they were requested to go to the local office for interview and just ignored it, to all payments were stopped. Never really penalised.

Yes, pension credit they admitted. I did not ask them anything further, just know a few people had to help them buy the flight back. 555555