keenok

Hippo- what do you think Thais do in a small town in the US when they see each other? Do they most typically avoid each other? Of course not, they look, evaluate whether Thai or some other East Asian, and then ask the person, generally in Thai, if they're Thai. If so, they typically chat and get together to eat, even if one is a former bar girl from Isaan and the other teaches Thai at the university.

You're just too cool. Sorry if the fellow farangs taint your experience.

The other kind that make my blood boil is the type that is ashamed to admit he's an American or who feels the need to apologize for America and Americans to help him fit in with other expats. Sad.

so did you enjoy your meal and chat with the university teacher ? or with the isaan bar girl??

This is a sidebar to Mr Pilchard's "Cultural Cringe".

I've seen this many times in Thailand among the expat community. When hearing my accent, Europeans and Brits often castigate me in the stupid Yank category, and until folks get to know me, they often treat me with disdain. One Brit advised to hire "this Canadian chick" for freelance work, laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

I find the dislike between many foreign nationals is alive and well in Thailand. Seems strange to me, as I like to meet and talk with people (except Canadian flag bearers). There are boors, jerks, snobs, and shysters from every country, but also some really lovely folks. My farang pals include Brits, Germans, Swiss, Americans, French, Aussies, Japanese, Scots... Gay and straight. Girls and boys. Common bonds: drinking, dogs, neighbourhood, laughs. A little family. We all drink together, along with Thai friends, throw impromptu BBQs and chatter about the world. If anyone has a prob, someone can fix it. If anyone obnoxious tries to join us, I tell them I am related to George dubbleya, lay on the southern accent and spout the benefits of US policies and practices in the world. They laugh or leave.

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

i think most of us do to some extent (including yourself with the canadian flag bearers) i personally do not mix much with farang since moving to pattaya. i did mix more when i lived in bangkok. my preconceptions are much more justified here i find,than they were in bangkok.i will be a happy man when i can move back.

an interesting article marshbags,thanks for posting it.

Buddha amulets?

and yellow t-shirts ,so they can all look like wanabes,i dont think theyd get the joke though unless theyd lived here.

Try Super Rich somewhere near WTC. I think for 8k, they'd deliver too, not sure. 02 253 5559.

agree. down towards kasikorn bank ,pratunam side of big c. ive never had a problem there.

Hippo- what do you think Thais do in a small town in the US when they see each other? Do they most typically avoid each other? Of course not, they look, evaluate whether Thai or some other East Asian, and then ask the person, generally in Thai, if they're Thai. If so, they typically chat and get together to eat, even if one is a former bar girl from Isaan and the other teaches Thai at the university.

You're just too cool. Sorry if the fellow farangs taint your experience.

The other kind that make my blood boil is the type that is ashamed to admit he's an American or who feels the need to apologize for America and Americans to help him fit in with other expats. Sad.

who cares what thais do in small town america? the question is cultural cringe.if hippo is embarrased by some farang here thats his business.most who live here will feel the same at certain times ( i certainly am),just that we all cringe at different things.as for americans apologising for america(i presume you mean your govt foreign policy)well that just shows youre not all stupid

I am from WNW of BKK. I do not mix with any Westerners, I cross the street to avoid them. When i was teaching, I was often invited to go out for drinks after work - Sorry, but I have been here with you for the past 8 hours and that's enough for me. Anti-social? No, very, very particular!

You don't mix with any westerners, you cross the road to avoid them. "Anti social? No, very, very particular."

Sounds racist to me.

You've made up your mind about everyone from western countries without even treading the same side of the street!

Interesting, Mr Hippo.

Once a while i see these sort of folks in my local dept. store. Usually they don a yellow shirt, and stare at my as if i am an alien invader into their fantasy when i smile at them.

My cultural cringe are both the louts with beach dress in the middle of Bangkok, and farang who are more Thai than the Thais - both extremes to be avoided at all cost.

Well said..!!! There is nothing more cringe-worthy than farangs who wear 'The Yellow' t-shirt..

Yes, we are aware of it's significance.. but i personally find it very embarassing to see an overweight, balding, lout sporting this particular attire in the feeble hope of gaining some kudos with the general Thai population.. 'It don't work.. you look stupid..! ' and most Thais do actually find it rather offensive.

If they stuck to their footy shirts (yep, UK'ers) then yeah, most Thais would love 'em.. and if they really must wear yellow, well there's always Norwich City..!

so long as they're prepared for all the... "arai na's"

yeah,the yellow t shirt is a bit cheesey,only surpassed if worn with the buddha "medallion"

one thing that really does make me cringe is listening to farang who resort to speaking bar girl english (i use the word bargirl to avoid being told off by bronco) complete with ommited words." dahleeng we go buy potayyto" i know a guy who has been here for a few years and now even speaks this way to other english speakers,and yes i cross the street to avoid him !!

My sentence 'I cross the street to avoid them' seems to have been taken too literally. What gives any Westerner the right to come up to me, a complete stranger, and ask me where am I from, how long have i been here and other banalities? Would you approach a stranger in your home town and ask him? Am I racist? No, very selective about the company I keep.

I am pretty sure that Mr. Hippo is taking the p*ss.

dont think he is ya know.sounds perfectly reasonable to me too. nothing wrong with being selective about the company you keep.after all look at all the weirdos the place attracts.

Hi

Coming to Pattaya in May after previously visited in 2004 and 2002

I always like to look on forums before I travel to see local news etc. I have read quite a few threads and I would appreciate any feedback from members on the following

1/ I must say I am saddened to read many posts about a huge rise in crime. Is this really the case? I ask because before my first trip in 2002 I read some horror story's only to find Pattaya to be about the friendliest place I have ever been. Obviously I appreciate that no where in the world is 100% safe but I can not help but imagine that things might be getting blown out of proportion. After all, most seaside resorts in The UK are now filled with benefit claimants and Asylum seekers and my home town of Ipswich has in the past few months witnessed 5 murders on vice girls, three nightclub shootings (one fatality) and the odd stabbing here and there. A night in town rarely passes without a mass brawl of some sort.

After my last visit to Pattaya I went to Koh Samui and found the place much more inhospitable than Pattaya. Sure you can go to a deserted Island in Thailand and swim with turtles but where is the fun in that? I might add that on both my previous visits I was with my wife and children and at no time at all did I feel threatened in any way despite being out in the bars at all times of night (with the kids)!

2/ My previous stay was at The Dusit which I thought was a great place but this time I fancy renting a Condo for a couple of weeks at the beginning of May. I fancy the condo option for two reasons; a/ cheaper, b/ no problem with guests. I was looking to get the best studio or one bed roomed apartment for around 17'000THB per week so if anyone has any ideas I would appreciate any help. Alternatively I have been offered the following;

CR2134: Corner unit for Rent: View Talay Condo, Building B Project 2 (101

Sq.m.) 16th floor. Large living room, European kitchen, bedroom, bathroom,

tiled floor, Telephone line, Cable TV, fully furnished and decorated,

Pattaya side view over the sea. Located 500 metres from Jomtien beach, and

2-3 minutes from central Pattaya. The condominium building at View Talay,

has 24Hr security, a very large swimming pool, many shops and other

facilities on-site, as well as a large car parking area.

Priced at 25,000 Baht (2) weeks - (Water and Electric not included)

CR2560: Double Room for Rent : View Talay Condo (Project 2) Building A (82

Sq.m) on the 12th floor. 1 bedroom, 2 bathrooms, European kitchen, tiled

floor, 2 balconies, Air conditioning, Cable TV, fully furnished &

decorated, Jomtien side. Located 500 metres from Jomtien beach, and 2-3

minutes from central Pattaya. The condominium building at View Talay, has

24Hr security, a very large swimming pool, many shops and other facilities

on-site, as well as a large car parking area.

Priced at 25,000 Baht (2) weeks - (Water and Electric not included)

The View Talay thing is very confusing to me as there appear to be quite a few buildings and they must vary greatly in quality. Also, the prices for these two seem higher than others in View Talay which I dont mind as long as they are of better class.

Thank you for sticking with this long post, I was going to end asking advice about purchasing a Condo in Pattaya but am wary now as everyone seems to advise against it. The situation is thus;

I was about to put £10k down on a new Merc and finance the rest through my company but then I thought that I could buy a Condo in Pattaya for £10K! Even if the Condo does not rise in price it can't depreciate as much as a new car will. Then I thought I could buy off plan (I can hear the shrieks now) as I will not have to pay the total until it is finished which gives me an extra year to then be able to afford up to £20k. Again, advice will be appreciated.

Finally, if the horror stories about Pattaya crime are true then what is Chang Mai like? Is it horrible and sanitized or is there still some scope for mischief?

Regards

Mugwump

[/quo

one thing that always annoys me in adverts is when it says 2-3 minutes from or 200 metres from.. when its simply not true.be aware that view talay condos are NOT 2-3 minutes from central pattaya. if i was going to be spending my time in pattaya i would stay in pattaya,as it can be a hassle getting back to jomtien after a night out so im told.likewise i would stay in jomtien if i was going to spend most of my time there.there are loads of serviced apartments around pattaya within your price range.as for buying a condo here ,id buy the merc!!

Barbers are great if you want to look like you cut your hair yourself, however, in light of the OP's use of the word "decent" I am happy to share that the only hairdressing salon I've found in BKK who has a clue how to cut hair is "Toni & Guy" in Siam Discovery Centre. Not the cheapest but at least you don't have to put a hat on as soon as you walk out of the place, which we've experienced at several other supposedly "international grade" salons.

Good luck!!

"international grade salons" come on ,please!! we are talking about a man going for a haircut not somewhere he can have his toenails painted by a ladyboy seriously there are plenty of good barbers around ,and if you tell them what you want there is no reason it should be any less "a good job" than some fancy salon. some of these guys have been cutting hair for donkeys years.

hairdressers for men? thats an oxymoron isnt it? barbers for men ,hairdressers for f*****s. is barbers everywhere, anything from 40 baht up. you might have to go to a few till you find one you like.

Well, actually it's "3 months" according to the Schengen (European) Agreement, and "90 days" for Thailand according to the Police Order no. 608/2006.

no problems at all then ?? no queus at the counter??

where is the best place to buy kyat?? is it even possible to buy here?? if i have to buy in myanmar ,can i buy with THB?? any information greatly appreciated.

Buy in Myanmar, you'll be trampled in the rush. they take baht and USD anyway.

pleased to hear it my concern was problems changing THB over there. thanks for the information.

where is the best place to buy kyat?? is it even possible to buy here?? if i have to buy in myanmar ,can i buy with THB?? any information greatly appreciated.

i went back to BIgAl's about 6pm yesterday without a drop of alcohol inside me and ordered a large chicken burrito and unlike friday night i was not impressed, so in my humble opinion late at night after a skinful of beer BigAl's burritos are excellent, but sober, well to be diplomatic lets just say i'll wait till i'm full of beer till i have another one.

BB

yes ,i must admit <deleted> food tastes good with a skinful ive even been known to eat mcdonalds after a very heavy session(many years ago though i must add!)

I never disagreed with this and it's a very serious point. What i did disagree with was his talk about 'Nominee Thai share holders' suddenly wanting their 'cut'.

A load of nonsence and anyone who knows how these things work will know this.

i have no idea how it works and no wish to (as i have no intention of buying property here). i know that if you invest here now under the current rules ,you are not definately protected in the future. things are just too uncertain,especially when it comes to trying to get round the law regarding property ownership.this could leave many people with problems if they have to go home. as you say a very serious issue.

An example might be, if the enforcement of the land laws (which have not changed by the way) caused an individual to have to move his land/property ownership from the illegal company route to place it in his wife's name but he found that his 'Nominee Thai share holders' suddenly wanted their cut - Would he then have the financial means left over to support himself outside of Thailand?

I'm sure if people who have a B2,000,000 registred Thai Ltd Company that was split in to 20,000 shares with five of the nominee share holders only holding one share each, the other nominee (wife) holding the remainder of the 51% and the Farang with the other 49% stake they would quite easily find the B500 to buy the nominee shares. Or maybe they would only have to find B125 if only 25% had been paid up.

and what if its the wife who wants her share???

Then it's just like back home where you would have to give her half anyway.

as guesthouse points out though,many people who are here long term may not then have the financial ability to have a decent life if they return to where they came from. i personally would not wish to have to live in the uk with the price of property there now.

An example might be, if the enforcement of the land laws (which have not changed by the way) caused an individual to have to move his land/property ownership from the illegal company route to place it in his wife's name but he found that his 'Nominee Thai share holders' suddenly wanted their cut - Would he then have the financial means left over to support himself outside of Thailand?

I'm sure if people who have a B2,000,000 registred Thai Ltd Company that was split in to 20,000 shares with five of the nominee share holders only holding one share each, the other nominee (wife) holding the remainder of the 51% and the Farang with the other 49% stake they would quite easily find the B500 to buy the nominee shares. Or maybe they would only have to find B125 if only 25% had been paid up.

and what if its the wife who wants her share???

If the number of foreigners living in Thailand halved, you'd probably still have more foreigners living in Thailand than there were five of six years ago.

The question you should be asking is not 'what is the impact of these people leaving?', but 'what is the continuing impact of changes on you staying?' - Or more precisely:

To what extent can things change before you yourself would have to leave?

And even more importantly:

If you had to leave, are you able to do so?

There is a trap between these two questions, which we might call the "risk of staying". That is, do the changes in Thai policies place an individual in an ever worsening position?

An example might be, if the enforcement of the land laws (which have not changed by the way) caused an individual to have to move his land/property ownership from the illegal company route to place it in his wife's name but he found that his 'Nominee Thai share holders' suddenly wanted their cut - Would he then have the financial means left over to support himself outside of Thailand?

Clearly, if your life's savings are tied up in Thailand then any changes need to be closely monitored. But the risks have not suddenly appeared, they are simply in a different guise.

The advice has always been 'Don't invest in Thailand that which you can't afford to loose'. In that sense people who leave may be acting in their own best interest - But of course you'd have to ask them to find out.

wise words!!

I'm not debating the validity of the dispute of what the bill should be for the above mentioned hospital stays. It is just funny as hel_l to compare them with what you'd pay in the states.

I just had a motorcycle accident on the mountain roads near Doi Inthanon. Fractured scull, cranial hematoma, broken nose, fractured clavicle, five broken ribs. The locals shipped me toute de suite (40 miles or so) to Chiang Mai Ram. Four days (unconscious) in the ICU, three more in standard room. Cranial op with blood drainage, multiple neural CT scans, the whole nine yards, rafts of pills, etc. Pretty much Western level, ended up chatting with my doc when I finally came back around, UMinn, worked at the freaking Mayo clinic for a few years. Just hysterical.

Total bill: 85k THB Chatted up my sister who's an RN at Cambridge City Hospital, has worked at Mass General and Brigham and Women's, her estimate of price range for a similar range of treatment depending on hospital in Boston area, broad range: 35k to 90k (that would be in dollars).

Facinatinating stuff to dwell on. I am 24 hours post discharge Ram Hospital after 10 days of care for a torsion fracture of my femur. Surgeon charged 17k for internal fixation of femur, plate was billed at 11k, op room 3500, and medical supplies near 40 K. Every glove, gauze etc. was billed. They did go in a second time due to prolonged bleeding/oozing at surgery site. Surgeons bill for second surgery was 2k but op room, 3500 for anesthesiologist x2, private room rate 1k per day.

Total bill 136K with discounts.

My take on this is that some traumatic injuries are very dramatic and life threatening but may involve less active care in a hospital. If more than half your stay is in an unconscious state and they are just monitoring you, perhaps the amount of billable treatment is less.

While I was unhappy with some of the billing practices shown, ie 53 baht for one paracetamol, overall compared to western rates, I got off at about 30% of it would have cost me in the western world.

Had I not been a prolonged "oozer", I may have been out in 7 days, but the costs really were only marginally higher for the daily care, once the two surgeries were billed. Thus the length of time in the hospital may not be an issue as room costs, but what they treat you with during those extra days and medicines administrered drive the bill up a lot.

I was given daily injections to hinder bleeding, which cost 400 baht per injection. In surgery injections were billed at 2000k.

I have put my estimate of my care at close to 20K USD , which is in sinc with quoted posters estimated U.S. equivalent.

The 12k baht a month quoted to me for health insurance in Thailand, from the only companies who whould insure me due to age, saved since I have been in Thailand is 720 K baht, so I am well ahead of the game at this point.

Had I fallen off the ladder at my daughters home three months ago in Australia and suffered the same injury, my insurance reserve fund would be gone for sure. In conclusion, in the west insurance is a must, in Thailand its "up to you".

i think that should read " in AMERICA is a must, in Thailand its "up to you". which by the way i completely agree with.there is nothing wrong with carrying your own risk.

personally,i dont think the numbers will decrease. people will leave ,yes ,for sure. however they will be replaced, asia is becoming a very popular place to stay long term.in the 5 years that i have been living here as opposed to just travelling in the region ,the numbers staying long term have definately risen.im sure the old hands who have been here a long time must really have noticed a huge change in the numbers.

one thing i think that must be noted is that people working for private individuals are very often relatively well paid. for example an earlier poster refering to unskilled labour at 400 baht a day. this is often due to the employer being able to afford the wage and wishing to provide their employee with a good wage with which to take care of their family and also loyalty. these workers are indeed lucky. one poster said "they" paid workers during the last rice harvest 120 baht per day.this in my opinion is closer to the norm than the "lucky " individual earning 400 a day.(although a little low from what im told). as for somebodys suggestion that somebody working in a 7/11 or tescos would earn about 8000 a month ,certainly not the cashiers!! (unless they worked all hours )supervisors perhaps. cashiers wage in carefour is 165 baht per day. 300 baht bonus per month and 300 baht travel allowance. with a little overtime(30 baht per hour) and hopefully not being down on the till ,(which is deducted from wage)they will take home about 6-6500 per month.note this is for the cashier not the guy weighing veg or the old lady mopping the floor who would love to have the cashiers wage!!

filling her full of manfat!!

the title says it all... they are street dogs that i was taking care of while sick. but i suppose that makes me responsible for them. what is the diplomatic protocol in thailand?

if you see them as your dogs ,i.e.your responsibility ,i suppose you better get your cash out!