thai_narak

You are very lucky marrying a Thai man as for us marrying a Thai women we will be kicked out very soon.

Good Luck!

If I don't do the above (for example work overseas for longer than 1 year), then my PR will be canceled?

I'm sorry to say this but you are right... it will be cancelled.

Hallo there.

I'm trying to help my girlfriend out.

She is here on a 'Non-Immigrant cat O visa' with no. of entry: S...?

What does that mean and how does she get to use the other entry's

when the first 3 months are up??

Thanks for a GREAT website!

Looks like your GF got a non-O single entry visa. For this kind of visa she can only use it once to enter but the visa can be extended before it's expiry. Other members here can better explain the "how to" for the extension.

The logic behind the visa crackdown

Posted by Admin / 1. October 2006, 22:35

Pattaya Today

Or is it another financial own goal? Many myths are already growing up about the recent announcement that foreigners can only live in Thailand for 90 days out of 180 (in any six months period) if they insist of utilising the 30 day visa on arrivals available at border posts and immigration checkpoints. Three in a row and that’s your lot mate for the time being!

Some say the recent arrest and deportation of an alleged American pedophile, who had been teaching in Thai schools, prompted the immigration bureau to take a closer look at illegal working in general and the inadequate checks made on foreign teachers. Others claim that on a recent trip to Pattaya, senior immigration police from Bangkok were horrified to see all those advertisements promoting visa runs to the Cambodian border.

In reality, the visa crackdown is just a reminder that the Thais every now and again have doubts about their own hospitality policy. Are they in fact too open and welcoming? This nationalistic thinking in the Thai bureaucracy goes back a long way, at least until the 1970s when (as old hands remember) there was a rather similar crackdown during the administration of a military backed coup. The squeeze on the visas on arrival is aimed at three distinct, howbeit overlapping, groups of farangs.

The first are those using the visas on arrival to work in Thailand illegally. In Pattaya, there are probably hundreds of such individuals running bars, teaching English without a work permit and so on. One of the problems is that work permits are not normally available for running a bar – too small an investment to count – and it’s hardly the farang teacher’s fault if the school chooses to hire him or her without adequate checks as there’s such a shortage of English speakers.

The second group are foreign men under 50 years of age. Thai immigration takes the view that they are too young to retire and, unless they have a work permit, are likely living here without paying taxes as they would have to do in their own country. Some of these guys marry a Thai national and immigration sources say they will carry out more checks in future to see if the couple really are in love. There’s also a suspicion that some men in this group could be international criminals who have been using the automatic visa on arrival at border posts to come and go more or less undetected.

The final group are the backpackers or, to be polite, the budget traveller. Their problem is shortage of cash rather than illegal working. There may well be hundreds of such men in Pattaya who can afford, just about, the monthly visa runs to Aranyaprathet or Pong Nam Ron. The Thai government is saying this market needs clearing out as they contribute next to nothing to the Thai economy. Some of them run out of money altogether and go into overstay. When they are inevitably arrested sooner or later, the Thais have to feed them while they are held in jail. If they fall ill, they can become a further burden to the state. As when visa extension charges were raised from 500 baht to 1,900 baht a couple of years ago, some commentators are prophesying the end of mass tourism as we know it. It’s argued that everyone is going to uproot themselves and go to live in countries which will welcome them with open arms, such as Malaysia or Cambodia. So how likely is this? Not too likely. Not everyone who has been using the visas on arrival to live here is short of cash. They can for instance switch to living here on 60 day tourist visas or 90 days non immigrant visas, all of which can be extended for one or two months according to type. Some can obtain a multi entry visa when they return to their home country, assuming they do.

In other words, some richer farangs have been using the visa on arrival as an easy, non bureaucratic way of residing here. They can find alternatives now that they must. Some men over 50 will probably switch to the so-called one year retiremernt visa provided they have the necessary cash and pension income. The farangs in real trouble with the new regulations are those who are trapped here on small or inadequate budgets. Many are nice guys, but frankly they contribute little to the local economy. Their option as things now stand is to mix visas on arrival (for three months) with a single entry 90 day tourist visa from Penang. In other words, the recent announcement about squeezing the visas on arrival will certainly cause difficulties. But it’s hardly the end of Thailand as a mass tourist destination centre. Anyway, what we don’t know is how long this latest crackdown will last. Nothing is forever as they say.

since it's been a battle here in some forums whether we need WP or not by doing simple things at home like helping wife, painting a house, mowing lawn, etc., blah, blah, blah... so i'm trying to understand who really need WP according to the rule in department of emplyment. exerpts from Governing Rules and Conditions of Considering Alien's Work B.E. 2545 below:

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Clause 5. Rules of considering issue working permit, renewal of permit and issue of permission to change work or locality or place of work, the authorized person shall grant permission only activities not contrary to law and grant permission only to alien who is qualify in any of the following cases;

(1) The alien who works in business with paid-up capital and beginning capital not less than two million baht. It is allowed to have only one working alien for every two million baht but not more than ten working aliens. Documents to consider are paid-up capital evidence and business capital evidence, bank statement, and balance sheet of the previous year.

(2) The alien who works in business that has paid income tax to government for the pass three years total amount not less than five million baht, this is allowed to have one working alien. Documents to consider are tax paid evidence.

(3) The alien who works in business, which operate export products and bring in foreign currency at least three million baht in recent year. It is allowed to have one working alien for every three million baht but not more than three working aliens. Documents to consider are export entry.

(4) The alien who works in business, which employs Thai employees, every fifty Thai employees, it is allowed to have one working alien but not more than five working aliens. Documents to consider are form of fund delivery to social security fund.

(5) The alien who has income and has paid annual personal income tax to Thai government from 18,000 Baht upwards or has paid personal income tax on the recent year at the sum of 18,000 Baht upwards. Documents to consider are personal income tax paid evidence.

Clause 6. Without enforce by clause 5 relating to number limitation of working aliens, at appropriate reason, Director-General may consider to issue working permit, renew permit or issue of permission to change work or locality or place of work to working alien by any of the following;

(1) The alien who is representative of international trade who enter in to Kingdom of Thailand to check product standard or product purchasing or status of goods market study.

(2) The alien who is consulting in investment, or management or technique and technology or internal audit periodically.

(3) The alien who is tourism business representative who bring foreigners to visit Thailand.

(4) International finance institute, which is supported by authorized organization.

(5) Activity, entertainment, amusement, music, religion, social welfare, culture, sports which its nature is employment periodically and non-profit or create income to nations or benefit to public society.

(6) To bring working alien to complete project of government or state enterprise with letter showing number of working alien, name and title.

(7) Work that causes mostly using of domestic material or reducing import overseas material.

(8) Work that support export of Thai products.

(9) Work that brings technology which Thai has not yet created to publicize and transfer to Thais.

(10) Work that Thai can do but is insufficient to response need of domestic labour market.

(11) The alien who is resident in Kingdom of Thailand with residence certificate or alien identification card.

(12) The alien who is spouse of Thai person, legally register marriage certificate and openly cohabit as husband and wife and has a faithful occupation.

Upon permission of Director-General, it shall be reported to Minister of Labour And Social Welfare within 15th next month.

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so, assuming i'm jobless in thailand but of course working in another country, in which category do i fall into? in my assumption it should be clause 6 #(12) which is "spouse of a Thai person" but "occupation" means "activity in your life you do to earn money" if you look it up in the dictionary. so how can a person get a work permit if he wants to paint his own house for that matter?

can someone please explain...

i stay in thailand because of my wife and son. i remember in 2001 when we decided to live in the US for good but after living there for 8+ months my wife started complaining how boring it is to stay home (she is not allowed to work). she always called her parents everyday so our telephone bill sky rocketed. her parents were also begging us to go back home because they want to see their grandson. finally, my wife asked me if we can go back to live in thailand since her parents were getting old she wanted to stay with them blah, blah, blah.... so i succumb to her request.

BUT in the future, i would certainly consider going back to the US since i cannot get old in thailand doing visa run until i'm 60. and my wife has to understand that... well, my son is old enough then to live by himself in thailand or wherever he wants to...

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Alien Employment Act B.E. 2521 (1978) (Department of Employment)

Alien Employment Act was enacted to control alien employment and the issuance of work permits to aliens and to reserve certain occupations for the Thai labour force. According to this Act, aliens of the following 3 categories are qualified to apply for work permits:

• Alien who resides in the Kingdom of Thailand or is allowed temporary stay in the kingdom, but not as a tourist or a transit traveller.

• Alien who is allowed to work in the Kingdom according to the investment promotion laws or other laws.

• Alien who has been deported but is allowed to work in certain location in replacement of deportation or while awaiting deportation; alien who has illegal entry into the kingdom or is awaiting a forced transfer out of the Kingdom; and alien who was borned in the kingdom but not granted Thai nationality or was denaturalized, is eligible to work in 27 occupations as stipulated in the Ministerial Announcement.

======================

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excerpts from immigration act:

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

======================

....so i don't understand why the word "work" has a very broad meaning. shouldn't the word "employment" more accurate? some bunch of lawyers are really making life complicated...

I'm even lower then my dog, my dog has papers from the Thai government in which they say it is a Thai dog.....

Maybe someday I will see that my dog can enter Thailand and me as the owner not....hahaha

this is not funny... it is true!

we have to pay quite a lot to be classified as second class.

this is really pissing me off. i got shouted at in the other thread that i need a work permit on helping my wife in her shop eventhough i only do so only when i'm on holidays in thailand (i work in other country). i do not understand why thai officials cannot differentiate "work" and "employment". they said helping is working maybe because you are moving (like machine) so you need a permit but you are not actually employed (no salary). if you are not sourcing income for moving your body how can you pay taxes? i think they should change the term "work permit" to "employment permit" so it is more clear for them. the word work has a very wide coverage and the thais read it as it is.

just now i realize that i have to change my plans in the future. i'm beginning to figure that if a foreigner do not have enough money in thailand he is not welcome to stay whether he has a family or not. notice that i'm using only "he" and not "he/she" because thai men have more rights for thier foriegn wives. by the way, this they say is equal rights.

as the saying goes again and again.... welcome to the LOS!

What about for the ones who are working outside Thailand and sending money in? My wife and my son are in thailand (both thai) and of course I have to have a non-O visa to stay with them sometimes during holidays. We have lots of things in thailand now, my wife's shophouse, our house, our condo, my 2 cars, and my son is studying. But if the new rule will keep me out of thailand then my wife would rather stay with me in the country where I work. And if I cannot stay there to support my family I'd better sell everything we have and move to my home country. Is this really what the thai government wants us to do? I hope breaking a family is not their intention.

I always walk thru the 'nothing to declare, side at customs, but the truth is, I haven't a clue as to what I should or should not declare. This is the first time I'm bringing in a laptop. Should I declare it or not?

As I know, laptop is a personal effects like camera, jewelry, organizer, etc. As long as you do not have more than one laptop with you you should be able to walk through the "nothing to decalre" counter. I always travel with my laptop in many countries and I didn't have any problem until now. To be more sure, please read the back of the arrival/departure card in the custome declaration part for other items that you may also have to declare.

Starting today I will not touch anything in my wife's shop anymore when I'm on holiday in Thailand. I will just sit there and relax with a beer in my hand in front of the TV. If she ask me to help I will tell her that it is against the law and she has to get a WP for me to be able to help. This is Thai Law.

Let's see what will happen...

I'm sure that they will laugh at me in the labor department if I'll tell them that I need a working permit to help my wife in her shop whenever I'm home visiting. Another thing is that, if I don't help sometimes I may sleep on the floor and get kick out of the house.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

"helping" is work

work without WP is illegal

get it???

Can you please help me to get work permit on helping my wife during the weekends in my own house? How much do you think will this cost? How much do you charge for processing? By the way, thank you for shouting at me... Next time, I will have to remind myself that I'm just a foreigner in thailand.

Msometimes helping her sell (as cashier).

because this is ILLEGAL and when someone that is jealous of your success reports you you will be in the Sh*t as they say in some places

but hey carry on, oh and lets hope they do you for noy paying the correct amount of tax as well

as you are a guest in a foreign country why can't you just comply with the laws

is it really that hard for you to do??

I think we should be realistic here. The tax thing is my wife's problem becasue it is her business and I already warned her about this but she said that every shop in Thailand are doing the same thing and she can point each and every shop around our vicinity who are not paying the right amount of taxes when the tax revenue department comes investigating.

The point is, am I really involved in this mess? Do you really expect me to lock myself in our room while my wife is selling in the shop? Please, before you reply try to understand one's situation before insulting anyone...

i wasnt aware that i was insulting anyone so apologoes for that

However how would you feel in your own homeland about ILLEGAL workers - married or not??

would you still have the same opinion that it wouldn't really matter?

Excuse me Sir, do you think I'm an illegal worker? Have you read my posts? For your information, I'm working in another country and my wife has the right to do her business in Thailand since she is Thai. How would you feel if you will be treated as an illegal if you are in my situation?

Enlighthen me...

thats not the same as what you said here

Maybe you would like to hear my case. My wife has a minimart and she is the owner of the building (shop house) when I'm on holiday in Thailand of course I stay in the same building and sometimes helping her sell (as cashier). I don't see any problem with this set-up as the business is hers and not mine (I don't have WP in Thailand as I'm working in other Asian country). Our shop is registered on her name.

If you can register the shop on your wife's name then you are safe. Just don't declare all of your earnings so you just pay minimum amount of tax (normally you have to pay tax every 6 months and it is not so expensive compare to hassle of being investigated but the tax department). Have a computerized cash register that has pasword protection and not the normal cash register tha the tax department can check.

anyway what does it matter

several people including sunbelt have given their opinion and i gave mine

hope you have fun "not working"

OK... what do you think about business man coming and going out of Thailand for a period of time, let say 2-3 days (like sales from another country)? Are these workers ILLEGAL is your eyes? This is my case, I go home to Thailand on weekends once a month to visit my family and it just happened that my wife has a business and sometimes helping her. Do you think I have to get WP for this? Do you think I'm ILLEGAL as you said? My case is different than the OP...

..

Msometimes helping her sell (as cashier).

because this is ILLEGAL and when someone that is jealous of your success reports you you will be in the Sh*t as they say in some places

but hey carry on, oh and lets hope they do you for noy paying the correct amount of tax as well

as you are a guest in a foreign country why can't you just comply with the laws

is it really that hard for you to do??

I think we should be realistic here. The tax thing is my wife's problem becasue it is her business and I already warned her about this but she said that every shop in Thailand are doing the same thing and she can point each and every shop around our vicinity who are not paying the right amount of taxes when the tax revenue department comes investigating.

The point is, am I really involved in this mess? Do you really expect me to lock myself in our room while my wife is selling in the shop? Please, before you reply try to understand one's situation before insulting anyone...

i wasnt aware that i was insulting anyone so apologoes for that

However how would you feel in your own homeland about ILLEGAL workers - married or not??

would you still have the same opinion that it wouldn't really matter?

Excuse me Sir, do you think I'm an illegal worker? Have you read my posts? For your information, I'm working in another country and my wife has the right to do her business in Thailand since she is Thai. How would you feel if you will be treated as an illegal if you are in my situation?

Enlighthen me...

Msometimes helping her sell (as cashier).

because this is ILLEGAL and when someone that is jealous of your success reports you you will be in the Sh*t as they say in some places

but hey carry on, oh and lets hope they do you for noy paying the correct amount of tax as well

as you are a guest in a foreign country why can't you just comply with the laws

is it really that hard for you to do??

I think we should be realistic here. The tax thing is my wife's problem becasue it is her business and I already warned her about this but she said that every shop in Thailand are doing the same thing and she can point each and every shop around our vicinity who are not paying the right amount of taxes when the tax revenue department comes investigating.

The point is, am I really involved in this mess? Do you really expect me to lock myself in our room while my wife is selling in the shop? Please, before you reply try to understand one's situation before insulting anyone...

you guys aint listening to the advice

irs no problem at all doing it until you get reported and then even just "helping out the wife" becomes aproblem as you are BREAKING THE LAW by working without a WP

In my case, how can I be working when my wife does not pay me salary? My presence in the shop house is simple, I live there with my family! And we have a shop because it is my wife's business. Besides, I'm just in Thailand for a few days visiting my family on the weekends and equipped with a non-O. Who will need a work permit on doing this???

Maybe you would like to hear my case. My wife has a minimart and she is the owner of the building (shop house) when I'm on holiday in Thailand of course I stay in the same building and sometimes helping her sell (as cashier). I don't see any problem with this set-up as the business is hers and not mine (I don't have WP in Thailand as I'm working in other Asian country). Our shop is registered on her name.

If you can register the shop on your wife's name then you are safe. Just don't declare all of your earnings so you just pay minimum amount of tax (normally you have to pay tax every 6 months and it is not so expensive compare to hassle of being investigated but the tax department). Have a computerized cash register that has pasword protection and not the normal cash register tha the tax department can check.

As I know, they (the airline) will not sell you a one way ticket if you do not have a proper visa to your destination. But if they will, you willl be in so much trouble when you enter the country that you might even board the next flight going back to your origin at your expense.

Perhaps my questions are not clear on my 1st post so I would like to simplify to get some answers. So here are the questions once more:

I'm currently working in Malaysia and have a non-O visa to Thailand since I have a Thai wife and a son. My non-O visa is multiple entry for 1 year and was issued in KL. What I want to do now is to extend this non-O visa in bangkok (suan plu) which I think is possible as I read from other threads (or not?) since I always go home to bangkok (almost every month) to visit my family. So the plan is, when my non-O is nearly expire (15-30 days before expiry) I will go to immigration office and extend my non-O with all the required documentation. Is this possible???

My next question is, as I'm also interested to get a resident permit. Can I then qualify for the PR using my 3 years consecutive extension of my non-O eventhough I'm not working in Thailand? Can I show that the income of my family is my remittances from Malaysia reflected in my bank account and my wife's bank account? For tax requirements, I will pay tax eventhough I'm not working in Thailand. Is this possible???

Thanks again for your answers...