Nam Plah

and water a little cleaner

Have you been to Pattaya beach lately?

It looks and smells like the Ganges in summer and recently had a report of a dead body bobbing about. (!)

Somehow I think the water in Phuket is considerably cleaner...

Anyone know where I can buy small silica gel packs in Pattaya?

A mate of mine works for a business specializing in these.

Campbell Muirhead

General Manager

Super Dry Co Ltd

www.superdryers.com

+66 (0) 877 456 489

Customer Service Department:

Open: Monday - Friday 9-5

tel: 038 406 344

fax: 038 406 295

21/14-15 Moo 5, Soi Nernplubwan,

Nongprue, Banglamung,

Chonburi, 20150

หากท่านต้องการฉบับภาษาไทย กรุณาติดต่อสอบถามได้ที่แผนกลูกค้าสัมพันธ์

I would love to have a REAL bowl of Pho Bo, too.

define cambo food

Maybe I meant "Khmer" food.

I was thinking of two dishes in particular, Lok Lahk and Amok which I have never encountered outside of Cambodia.

While they are both fairly simple in preparation they happen to be quite tasty and different from Thai dishes.

Know of any Vietnamese or Cambodian restaurants in Pattaya?

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phis-tour...g-riddle-12446/

One Year Later.

No closure.

RIP

It may or may not be a "Cover-Up".

But one thing for sure is it is at least a "Foul-Up" on the investigative team and a mysterious tragedy that lingers in the X-Files of Thailand Tourism's most disastrous holiday experiences.

Godspeed to the departed and condolences for the families.

Tasty enough and quite reasonable. Location is fairly quiet and relaxed. Thanks Syd.

May HRM feel better and have a speedy recovery.

Long live the King.

Initial reports stated a foul odor in the rooms.

So much so that the two Norwegian gals hid their heads beneath the covers of the beds to avoid the odor.

Ryan Kells noticed a strong "chemical" odor that was repulsive upon entering his and Jill's room.

Pyridine synthesis (Chichibabin pyridine synthesis) involves the intermediacy of acrolein, notable as I had postulated in an earlier post about Acrolein poisoning being a possibility due to the reported strong odor and Acrolein's use in water treatment as an herbicide.

Pyridine is also the precursor to myriad insecticides, herbicides, pharmaceuticals, food flavorings, dyes, rubber chemicals, adhesives, paints, explosives and disinfectants. Examples include paraquat.

Also notable as this case has been eyed by myself and others as a possible organophosphate poisoning as well.

What would be common sources of Pyridine?

One example is cetylpyridinium chloride, a cationic surfactant that is a widely used disinfection and antiseptic agent.

Many chemicals may be present as fungicides, herbicides and bactericides as might be used to treat sewage, waste water or in industrial water treatments could fall under scrutiny as likely toxins.

Someone had better take a real close look at the nearby "Water Treatment" facility....

Toluene - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene

Pyridine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridine

Methyl Chloride (Chloromethane) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloromethane

Acetylene - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylene

None of which are suitable replacements for traditional respiratory atmospheric gasses like Oxygen...

It seemed to be an obvious conclusion that there were toxic gasses/vapors present in the affected rooms at Laleena GH from the account of Ryan and the unfortunate victims symptoms, rapid illness and subsequent deaths.

Now we have an inkling of what variety of noxious and toxic chemicals could be to blame.

The most pertinent question is what is the source of the emissions and how are they entering the confined spaces of these rooms.

I still lean towards the water treatment plant as a source of the chemicals.

Occam's razor.

The results of the autopsies have not been released by police, who are citing privacy issues.

Quoted from CNN website.

Jill St. Onge Memorial and investigative Blog

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/

Jill's Boyfriend, Ryan interviewed on CNN.com

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/05/11/thail...hs/#cnnSTCVideo

CNN Story about the couple and Jill's Death

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/05/09/seatt...eath/index.html

Bitten and Bound Story of the mystery

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/05/09/j...d-photos-video/

Why is this an important topic to pursue?

It could happen to any of us and our deaths would forever be shrouded in obfuscated and misleading investigative reporting.

Considering the amount of money American and Norwegian tourists contribute to the Thai tourism industry and the economy as a whole simply from a business perspective the TAT and the Thai State Department not to mention the US and Norwegian Embassies ought to adopt a more transparent and proactive stance on resolving this mystery.

Or we could simply go on talking about Kratoeys and who has the best English breakfast specials in Phuket instead...

The silence is deafening on this matter from the Thai investigators, the boyfriend of the American victim, Ryan and the Norwegian medical investigators.

We know nothing more about the cause of this tragedy four months on than we did initially.

Simply blaming Laleena GH owner is a simplistic approach to a systematic problem of lax health and safety standards and practices which seem not to bother the general populace but put a foreign visitor at an extreme disadvantage.

Tourists support areas like Koh Phi Phi and the TAT and related Health Service authorities would be well served to take this matter seriously.

Sweeping the deaths of two young, healthy tourists is not only a grievous injustice but a miscalculation on the PR effect on tourism.

Justice for the victims.

At last count there are 8 deaths in the same region within a short period of time.......perhaps if you recognize this and stop focusing on 2 and start focusing on 8, it will have a greater impact on "getting to the bottom of it."

Yes, readers of this thread are aware of the other deaths in the region however THIS thread is about the mystery surrounding the two ladies who died at the same guesthouse on Phi Phi. "Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi " And my personal opinion is there will be no salient conclusions, four months on there still is precious little known.

Onward armchair sleuths.

The silence is deafening on this matter from the Thai investigators, the boyfriend of the American victim, Ryan and the Norwegian medical investigators.

We know nothing more about the cause of this tragedy four months on than we did initially.

Simply blaming Laleena GH owner is a simplistic approach to a systematic problem of lax health and safety standards and practices which seem not to bother the general populace but put a foreign visitor at an extreme disadvantage.

Tourists support areas like Koh Phi Phi and the TAT and related Health Service authorities would be well served to take this matter seriously.

Sweeping the deaths of two young, healthy tourists is not only a grievous injustice but a miscalculation on the PR effect on tourism.

Justice for the victims.

How very sad. RIP young lady.

A curious assessment by the medical examiner that she suffered from profound, acute Thyroid poisoning.

Heavy metals like Mercury, r@dioactive elements such as Ur@nium and r@dioactive Iodine have an affinity for the Thyroid and could cause such effects.

There are potent, specific Thyroid toxins such as Quinine and Phenylthoicarbamate but how was she poisoned and with which agent is a matter for a forensic pathologist.

She didn't succumb to an infection that rapidly (not in a healthy 17 year old) and the note that she had "Thyroid Poisoning" points to a specific pathogen that was ingested either during the procedure from dental tools or from the metals in the braces themselves.

A note to the Health and Safety investigators: Look at possible unauthorized r@dioactive metal reclamation, Iodine, Mercury and Phenylthiocarbamate poisoning in your toxicology investigations.

I hope you guys have Mass Spectrum Gas Chromatography at your disposal.

is it feasible that all these developments use herbicides without regulation? Also assuming that these places pretty much share the same water table, is it feasible that the local water supply is contaminated? Possible that some establishments have water sources and/or storage that concentrates potential killer chemicals?

Had their been a mass poisoning where scores of people reported the same symptoms then I would have to agree that the public waterworks could have been contaminated.

But this case's reported severity of physiological symptoms and rapidity of mortality in succumbing to the heretofore "unknown pathogen" (now assumed to be an organophosphate pesticide due to the lab results reporting low Acetylcholinesterase blood levels) leads an astute observer to conclude that this was a discrete and targeted incident of poisoning.

All of those involved had in some manner reported a foul/chemical odor in the two affected rooms.

• Was pesticide used in an ill-advised manner in these rooms prior to check-in?
  
• Was there an accidental spill of said chemical(s)?
  
• Did someone purposely introduce toxic vapors to these rooms?
  
• Did the individuals purchase something that was impregnated with these chemicals (fruit or flowers) and either ingest or inhale the toxins inadvertently?
  

Why are we the only ones asking these questions?

Considering how dire the Tourist situation currently is in the LOS and that destinations like Koh Phi Phi Don rely on tourism for their local economy, having a spate of unsolved tourist deaths doesn't seem to be a very effective marketing draw.

If these were accidental poisonings the TAT and Government should make ammends to the families and ensure that similar indicents are avoided through proper safeguards.

Else if this is a criminal act the authorities should pursue the matter as a murder investigation and bring the perpetrators to justice.

As it stands currently this has become a case of; "Gee, I dunno, some kind of freak accidental thingie. It's a shame, oh well. Life goes on you know..."

Inexcusable.

Nuff said.

Lived on the beach side of Pratumnak for more than 4 years and never had any trouble.

Sea-view of the islands, beach a few hundred meters away and nice and quiet when you need to get away from it all.

My mate lives on Soi Excite and is always trying to coerce me into moving down his way;

"This is where it's all happening, I can walk down to Soi Bukhaeo and grab a beer in 2 minutes..."

Sure.

But when you have a hangover and need some peace if you live in the thick of it all there is no respite.

For me it is the right balance and well positioned, just a 3 min ride to walking street or a 2 min walk to a quiet beach.

Lao?

There are even some jobs in Thailand that don't require women to wear underwear.

Somehow I don't think you were referring to the drill-press operator in a machine shop.

I believe that when in Rome...

So I don't manicure my nails at night (according to my GF) or Wai children (makes then die quick, GF again) as well as a host of other seemingly implausible superstitions.

However I also remember that

"There is more to heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your mere philosophies" [sic]

and hearken to Lord Buddha's admonition,

"The mind is everything. What you think you become."

So believe or disbelieve at your own choosing.

Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?

Cholera? Really?

Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.

"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.

Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.

I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.

Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.

For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.

Justice for the victims.

Not intended as a Red Herring, I would like to see this resolved as much as anybody. I will not be writing off cholera so quick though, will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.

I suspect that if it is Cholera that is all the more reason for a large scale cover up as it is very scary for tourists. It would be easy to write off a couple accidental deaths. The Gov could even throw the guesthouse staff in prison and make a good show for the press. If it were to prove Cholera, there is no simple clean up as you would need to build a new infrastructure to dispose of waste correctly on Phi Phi and in Phuket.

May all the victims rest in peace as those of us who are still outraged by this tragedy search for answers.

Ok I'll play....

Fatality rates are 5% of total cases in Africa, and less than 1% elsewhere

Since we know of 4 people in this particular case affected and 2 have succumbed that puts the mortality rate at 50%.

The numbers don't add up, neither do the symptoms or findings from the blood/tissue samples or autopsy report.

will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.

Considering the fact that Jill St. John's body was cremated (in LOS) and her remains nonviable for testing at this point

I suspect your wait and see approach is the strategy that the local investigators are counting on...

Occam's razor has me looking in a different direction though.

I'll take a stab at it.

I think it is the Theme song to a movie called "Hello Yasothorn" (a favorite Isaan Musical/Comedy of mine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Yasothon

The song closes the film and is in a music video style as Petchtai Wongkamlao as Yam sings to Janet Khiew as Joei.

There is a music vid on Youtube for the film but unfortunately it isn't of that particular song.

I really do like the song you are referring to (if I am correct).

The film is a lot of fun.

But then again I may be wrong.

There is a Thai Pop song the name of which I don't know that has a very similar melody with the female singer singing in a kind of childlike way "La,la,la,la,la...la-la,la,la,la,la,la..."

I'm sure that was immensley helpful!

Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?

Cholera? Really?

Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.

"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.

Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.

I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.

Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.

For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.

Justice for the victims.

What a maroon!

Didn't he know that the prostate exam was an extra 50 baht?

Cheap Charlie.