Nam Plah

Late Breaking News:

Have we seen the smoking gun?

This just in from Jill St. Ong's memorial blog posted by RobbAce July 22, 2009 regarding Jill's autopsy reports from the Thai inquiry.

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/

The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems. I believe here in the states an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.

It did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from "Government officials" can be put to rest. The only bit of information we got out of it was a low level of the enzyme Acetylcholinesterase. Please take a look at this Wiki page about what could cause this enzyme to be lowered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholinesterase_inhibitor

What are potential Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? The list includes chemicals like nerve gas agents...

But more likely some form of organophosphate pesticide like Parathion for instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parathion

Parathion is a cholinesterase inhibitor. It generally disrupts the nervous system by inhibiting the acetylcholinesterase. It is absorbed via skin, mucous membranes, and orally. Absorbed Parathion is rapidly metabolized to Paraoxon, as described above. Paraoxon exposure can result in headaches, convulsions, poor vision, vomiting, abdominal pain, severe diarrhea, unconsciousness, tremor, dyspnea, and finally lung-edema as well as respiratory arrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_poisoning

Anticholinesterase poisoning

If one is regularly using carbamate and organophosphate pesticides, it is important to obtain a baseline cholinesterase test. Cholinesterase is an important enzyme of the nervous system, and these chemical groups kill pests, and potentially injure or kill humans by inhibiting cholinesterase

The evidence is scant but damning.

Either through negligence or malice it appears that these people have been poisoned.

Unfortunately quality is expensive.

But I know of a farang cabinet maker who does outstanding work and yet charges prices that are in line with the Thai marketplace.

His shop is called "American Craftsman" and I'll pass your post along.

What about the seven mysterious deaths in the same region over a short period of time? Has the story died along with the victims in order to keep the tourists coming? I don't really understand why the focus is on these two victims when seven died and they may in fact all be linked somehow. But, that is just me, I guess.

Please post some info on the other 7 deaths. I know that everyone would be interested to find out if they are somehow interconnected via your assertions and investigations.

This thread was started to cover these two specific deaths in the same guesthouse over an extremely short period of time.

Since nobody has yet to link these two deaths to a common cause (as unbelievable as that is) it would certainly be tough to link the other 7 deaths you mentioned.

However I am extremely interested to hear specifics on the other victims and see if there is some commonality.

These two deaths were especially interesting because of the young age of the victims and their identical symptoms plus they were both staying next door to each other in the only 2 air-con rooms in this particular guesthouse on Phi Phi.

And yet the authorities have not drawn a solid connection between the two cases.

Mystery continues to confound investigation efforts.

Breaking:

PhuketWan reports.

Phi Phi Riddle: Pursuing the Deaths of Two Tourists

By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian

Sunday, June 28, 2009 NORWEGIAN police are reported to be keen to pursue the case of the two young tourists who died mysteriously on the holiday island of Phi Phi almost two months ago.

Officers in the home town of one of the victims, Julie Bergheim, are said to be agitating for a second autopsy in an attempt to solve the riddle of the Laleena Guesthouse.

Other avenues of investigation so far have failed to explain what caused the deaths of Miss Bergheim, 22, and American Jill St Onge, 27.

FULL STORY

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-riddl...ng-death-11275/

Why the silence on the part of Kells and the young Norwegian girl?

Where is Quincy when you need him?

There are nearly a hundred refrigerant gases used in both consumer and industrial cooling and air-con systems so it would be impossible to know exactly which one was used in those two units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_refrigerants

Over time toxic gases have been phased out and replaced with less dangerous compounds.

The basis of most coolant gases is the family of chemical compounds known as the Haloalkanes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloalkane

Haloalkanes in copper tubing open to the environment can turn into phosgene gas after coming in contact with extreme heat, such as while brazing or in a fire situation. Other ways that phosgene can be created is by passing the haloalkane through an internal combustion engine, or by inhaling it through a lit cigarette, cigar or pipe. Phosgene is a substance that was used as a chemical weapon in World War I. Low exposure can cause irritation, but high levels cause fluid to collect in the lungs, possibly resulting in death.

Phosgene gas is very bad news for anyone inhaling it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene

Phosgene is an insidious poison as the odor may not be noticed and symptoms may be slow to appear.[11] Phosgene can be detected at 0.4 ppm, which is 4x the Threshold Limit Value. Its high toxicity arises, not from hydrogen chloride released by hydrolysis, but by the action of the phosgene on the proteins in the pulmonary alveoli. The alveoli are the site of gas exchange, and their damage disrupts the blood – air barrier and causing suffocation. Phosgene detection badges are worn by those at risk of exposure.

The New York Times has this information (which contradicts DuPont [the manufacturer of the majority of refrigerants we all know as "Freon"] and the Occupational Health And Safety Agency, OSHA) about the dangers of refrigerant gases and what inhalation poisoning looks like.

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/po...g/overview.html

Refrigerant Poisoning

Symptoms

Lungs

• Breathing difficulty
  
• Throat swelling (which may also cause breathing difficulty)
  

Eyes, ears, nose, and throat

• Severe pain in the throat
  
• Severe pain or burning in the nose, eyes, ears, lips, or tongue
  
• Loss of vision
  

Stomach and intestines

• Severe abdominal pain
  
• Vomiting
  
• Burns of the esophagus (food pipe)
  
• Vomiting blood
  
• Blood in the stool
  

Heart and blood

• Irregular heart rhythms
  
• Collapse
  

Skin

• Irritation
  
• Burn
  
• Necrosis (holes) in the skin or underlying tissues
  

NOTE: Most symptoms result from breathing in the substance.

Outlook (Prognosis)

How well a patient does depends on the severity of the poisoning and how quickly medical help was received.

Severe lung damage may occur. Survival past 72 hours usually means the patient will have a complete recovery.

Sniffing freon is extremely dangerous and can lead to long-term brain damage and sudden death.

That doesn't sound like a non-toxic and harmless gas now does it?

In many ways the case has the earmarks of an inhalation of refrigerant gas poisoning.

Then again I came across this as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary_pea

The major symptoms of abrin poisoning depend on the route of exposure and the dose received, though many organs may be affected in severe cases. Initial symptoms of abrin poisoning by inhalation may occur within 8 hours of exposure. Following ingestion of abrin, initial symptoms may occur in less than 6 hours but usually are delayed for 1 to 3 days.

Inhalation

Within a few hours of inhaling significant amounts of abrin, the likely symptoms would be respiratory distress, fever, cough, nausea, and tightness in the chest. Heavy sweating may follow as well as pulmonary edema. This would make breathing even more difficult, and the skin might turn blue. Excess fluid in the lungs would be diagnosed by x-ray or by listening to the chest with a stethoscope. Finally, low blood pressure and respiratory failure may occur, leading to death.

Or it could have been Carbon Monoxide Poisoning...

Point is that all we can do is armchair sleuth and posit theories because we are concerned, confused and for those of us residing in the LOS want to make sure that this doesn't happen to anyone else, especially ourselves.

Keep looking for clues.

Zentel" (Albendazole 200 mg) and "Flagyl" (Metronidazole 400 mg).

These are anti-parasitic medicines.

It sounds like a parasitic infection like Ascaris Lumbrcoides (common roundworm) or some other fairly hardy variety.

The worms themselves may be harboring bacteria which they release into your digestive tract with their own waste.

Those antibiotics get the bacteria that are free but not the ones inhabiting the parasites.

Many species of human gastrointestinal parasites are more active at night, shedding their waste and being motive hence your inability to "hold it in" during those nocturnal hours.

The above mentioned medicines should clear up the buggers.

Natural alternatives are raw pumpkin seeds, garlic and chlorophyll, like that in sprouts and raw green veggies.

Also give yourself some B12 and multi vitamins (LipoVitan is a good choice) and rink plenty of water to counteract the dehydration associated with chronic diarrhea.

Feel better and good luck.!

Arsenic poisoning fits some of the gastrointestinal symptoms but not the respiratory distress and subsequently fatal pulmonary edema.

More likely poisons like strychnine, botulism toxin B and E, metal phosphides like zinc phosphide (commonly used as rodent poison and releasing toxic phosphine gas in the presence of atmospheric oxygen), anhydrous ammonia or chlorine gas (see prior post about common cleaning agents being mixed with household bleach) all somewhat fit the symptoms and victim's conditions prior to their deaths.

The description of Ryan Kells is the most compelling and complete account and contains numerous clues.

• Chemical odor.
  
• Closed air con room.
  
• Sickness began after eating Pizza for dinner.
  
• Approx 12 hours latency before severe distress.
  
• Jill exhibited prolonged and extreme vomiting, nausea.
  
• Jill lost ability to respire apparently due to pulmonary edema caused by severe, acute pneumonia.
  
• Jill had blue tinged skin (a classic sign of oxygen deprivation and a a hallmark of the aforementioned respiratory symptoms).
  

My theory is chemical pneumonia coupled with aspirating gastric contents which were loaded with a disease pathogen (Mycobaterium or Staphylococcus) which quickly invaded and destroyed lung tissue.

Could this be the "Freak accident" scenario health officials mentioned?

Toxic gas was somehow inhaled triggering the beginning of this fatal episode in which infected foodstuff caused gastric contents to be purged and inadvertently aspirated leading to a chain reaction of ever increasing symptoms, reactions and pathology?

Chemical Pneumonia:

A chemically induced inflammation of the lungs. Pneumonia is an irritation and swelling of the lungs usually due to a virus or bacteria but some chemicals can also cause the lungs to become inflamed. Inhalation of fumes such as fuel, insecticides and pool chemicals can all result in chemical pneumonia. This type of pneumonia is not contagious.

Can be casued by:

Insecticides

Pool cleaning chemicals

Gasoline fumes

And other toxins.

Also see:

Chemical Pneumonia

Pharmacological definitions say it all.

Alcohol : Neurotoxin

THC : Psychoactive Compound

Point is neither is good for you but if you consume a vast quantity of alcohol you will die.

If you consume a vast quantity of Marijuana you will raid your pantry for cookies.

The worry about this particular "novel" flu virus (H1N1) at pandemic levels in LOS is the fact that nearly 1.5% of the country's population is immuno-compromised due to HIV infection.

The availability of cheap over-the-counter antibiotics has also encouraged drug resistant strains of bacterial infections to proliferate (MRSA) due to improper dosage and incomplete administration terms of the medications.

The combined effect is a public health environment rife for serious illness associated with an influenza outbreak.

These issues add fuel to a potentially devastating communicable disease which otherwise might be nothing more than a nuisance.

When it comes to mindless platforms for selling detergent Thailand is hands-down the winner.

I have never seen throngs of commoners so enraptured by television programmes about petty domestic squabbles with carnival background music like they are in Thailand.

America can lay claim to produce (over-produce) the best dramatic programming (much easier to do than comedy) although The U.S. once had it's comedic heyday with Uncle Milton and Groucho, Ernie Kovacks and Dick Van Dyke.

But Britain certainly is the leader in TV comedy.

Whip-smart and also unflinchingly low-brow in the same breath.

I've seen Blackadder and Fawlty Towers.

Are you serious???

I mean they could have been revolutionary thirty years ago, but who'd watch them now????

I still laugh at reruns of both after seeing them dozens of times...

But then again- (In a thick Castillian accent)

"I know noothing!"

I believe that a record of chemicals, i.e. poisons, can sometimes be found concentrated in the hair and possibly fingernails of someone who has ingested them. I believe that this record will remain in the hair at a certain point along its length, and can be found there, until the hair containing that record is cut off. If other avenues of search are proving unfruitful, it may be good to look at the hair of both Miss Bergheim and Mr. Kells.

This is used in the case of certain elemental poisons like arsenic and some heavy metals but doesn't reflect ALL ingested/inhaled toxins.

A more sure method would have been to take blood samples from the survivors and look for antibodies (in the case of an infection) and additionally run a tox-screen for common household poisons.

So far there isn't any indication that either Mr. Kells or Ms. Bergheim have submitted samples.

The report quotes a deputy health official in Krabi, the province that contains Phi Phi, as saying that tests on blood and tissue taken from the bodies showed the cause ''definitely wasn't food poisoning.''

The health official is also quoted as saying: ''This is looking like some freak accident.''

Such as a staff member of the cleaning crew at the GH inadvertantly mixing toilet bowl cleaner with bleach and pouring it down a drain. Whereby deadly chlorine gas was created and vented into the rooms?

Sarin seems highly unlikely.

Miss Bergheim's 19-year-old companion, a Norwegian woman, remained seriously ill for several days.

She probably has the most complete survivor's account of what transpired, but she has been reluctant so far to talk to the media.

It seems odd that she wouldn't speak about the episode that took her friends life and made her ill.

What/whom is she protecting or afraid of?

"This is looking like some freak accident"

Uhhhh, yeah right...

Inconclusive, except having explicitly ruling out food poisoning or toxic substances.

Well those are conclusions.

Early reports stated initial findings of "Microbes in the blood" of the two victims however now there is no mention of any other type of disease pathogens except the absence of microorganisms associated with "food poisoning".

How about looking at other diseases.

Pneumonia is one that fits all the symptoms.

• Aspiration pneumonia
  

Aspiration pneumonia (or aspiration pneumonitis) is caused by aspirating foreign objects which are usually oral or gastric contents, either while eating, or after reflux or vomiting which results in bronchopneumonia. The resulting lung inflammation is not an infection but can contribute to one, since the material aspirated may contain anaerobic bacteria or other unusual causes of pneumonia. Aspiration is a leading cause of death among hospital and nursing home patients, since they often cannot adequately protect their airways and may have otherwise impaired defenses.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiratory_disease

Symptoms of pneumonia need immediate medical evaluation. Physical examination by a health care provider may reveal fever or sometimes low body temperature, an increased respiratory rate, low blood pressure, a high heart rate, or a low oxygen saturation, which is the amount of oxygen in the blood as indicated by either pulse oximetry or blood gas analysis. People who are struggling to breathe, who are confused, or who have cyanosis (blue-tinged skin) require immediate attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonia

Could there be a connection between the swine flu outbreak and this case?

Swine Flu From Wikipedia:

Symptoms that may require medical attention

Certain symptoms may require emergency medical attention. In children, for instance, those might include blue lips and skin, dehydration, rapid breathing, excessive sleeping and significant irritability that includes a lack of desire to be held. In adults, shortness of breath, pain in the chest or abdomen, sudden dizziness or confusion may indicate the need for emergency care. In both children and adults, persistent vomiting or the return of flu-like symptoms that include a fever and cough may require medical attention.

Contact with infected surfaces

Infection can be caused by touching a surface contaminated with flu viruses and then touching the eyes, nose, or mouth.[162] The CDC advised avoiding such contact and frequent washing of hands with soap and water or with alcohol-based hand sanitizers, especially after being out in public. Those coughing should use a tissue, dispose of the tissue, then wash hands right away.[163] Transmission was also reduced by disinfecting household surfaces with a disinfectant or a diluted bleach solution.[164]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_fl...pected_severity

Any hypothesis is more useful than the deafening silence on this matter even if only to raise the level of exposure and possibly shake loose enough information to prevent this type of tragedy from reoccurring.

Unfortunately this is not an instance of "If you don't have anything nice to say then keep quiet".

Better to be a blunder head and stick foot in mouth than let these poor souls go softly into obscurity.

The lack of information from the authorities is astonishing.

If I was a handicapper I would set the odds at two young, healthy people checking in and staying in two air conditioned, adjacent rooms at the same guest house suddenly becoming violently ill and dying within hours of each other after exhibiting identical symptoms at 10 Billion to one that they weren't connected to the environment, their identical behavior or a third party's malfeasance.

So far I have explored possibilities that it was the immediate environment or the victim's behavior.

Now perhaps we should look at the third possibility.

"Sometimes, they stun victims with an electric shock device or by applying psychedelic medicine to the victim's body before getting away with their valuables, often by taxi,"

What the heck does "applying psychedelic medicine to the victim's body" mean?

And where can I have it done!?

It would also make sense that if two victims died and two only became ill that any doctor worth his salt would immediately run a battery of blood tests, tox screens and fecal/urine tests on the SURVIVORS to gain insight into what killed their unfortunate companions.

I see no indication that this was done.

I would like to point out that I would in no way try to insult, defame or allege any behavior by any of these individuals but am only postulating from a distance.

Scenario:

Twenty something year old's on holiday in Thailand.

Subscribing to a bit of the backpacker lifestyle.

Freewheeling and enjoying the sun and fun.

Meeting new people and making fast friends.

Tippling a drink or two.

Possibly ingesting substances (natural or otherwise) intended to elevate their happy experience on lovely, scenic Phi Phi.

Said substances are of an illicit nature and illegal to posses or ingest in almost any country.

Said substances are either:

A. Impure

B. Misrepresented

C. Improperly prepared

D. Dangerous even in their "pure" form

Likely candidates might be "magic mushrooms" or the party drug Ecstasy.

Improperly cured mushrooms or potentially poisonous ones could bring about the effects described by the survivors.

Nausea, vomiting, toxic shock and in the case of poisonous mushrooms even death.

Or they could have consumed poisonous mushrooms accidentally when dining on mushroom pizza (Ryan reports Jill didn't become sick until after dining on pizza) and the Norwegian Girls reportedly ate Italian food.

Did they have mushroom sauce on their spaghetti?

It is not unheard of that people mistake edible mushrooms for poisonous ones.

Did the staff of the restaurant pick their own?

Something notable about all of the reports of when the maid looked in on the victims is that they were all unclothed.

They were in the only air-con rooms in the GH and yet by their nakedness hey would appear to have been hot?

Could they have inadvertently consumed PMA (para-methoxyamphetamine) when they intended to consume MDMA?

One of the effects of PMA is nausea and vomiting, severe hyperthermia.

Did the two couples in adjacent rooms have contact with each other? Did they dine or drink together?

Could there be other associations with visitors to Phi Phi that they had in common besides the GH?

I only attempt to look at other possibilities as sit seems that the authorities are either unable or unwilling to.

I hope that we get more information from Ryan or the surviving Norwegian girl as to their health and solve this enigma before it claims another unfortunate victim.

With a dose of Forensic Pathologist Michael Baden, a dash of TV diagnostician extraordinaire Gregory House and a healthy splash of Peter Falk's turn as Colombo I foist this on top of all the observations and theories:

Ryan Kells own account on his blog never stated the mysterious "chemical odor".

This description came later in interviews with the press.

Kells is a glass blower who might have had some experience with strange "chemical" odors.

And what kind of chemical odor?

Acrid, sharp, sweet like acetone, noxious like exhaust fumes, chlorine, benzine, pungent like malathion, harsh like ammonia...?

A better description of this vague "chemical odor" would seem to assist in the investigation.

And the two Norwegian girls reported a "foul" odor that caused them to hide under the covers...

What kind of a foul odor... Rotten garbage or sewer gas, fried pigs intestines or Durian? Hydrogen Sulfide?

Again a better description would be an important clue if a noxious gas were to blame.

Notable is both parties survivors reported a disagreeable "Chemical odor" in the air-con rooms.

Potential Sources:

• Internal Refrigerant Leak
  
• Internal Pesticide Residue
  
• Internal Cleaning Agent Residue
  
• Drainage Venting Of Gas Internally
  
  
• External Source Entering Room
  
• Inhalation of Atomized Water from Shower
  
  

Since these were the only two Air con rooms in the GH and the guests took advantage of the fact we know they had their windows closed up tightly.

Scenario is that persons like those most affected by the toxin(s) spent the most time in the environment without ample fresh air.

Many toxic gases are odorless and many benign gases are pungent.

Knowing there are both water treatment facilities and drainage canals nearby we are presented with an adequate explanation of a source of hazardous vapors and a vector, namely an improperly trapped shower drain.

We can be fairly certain that with open drainage nearby that the shower's drains fed directly to the waterway.

The last remaining question is what was the particular toxic gas that;

• Smelled Bad
  
• Had the potential to cause distress or death
  
• Could conceivably exist in the water
  

There are any number of fumigants, pesticides, industrial chemicals, etc... that might have found their way into the waterway, combined, degraded into a potentially hazardous gas and wafted unchecked into the rooms via an open, improperly vented shower or sink drain, concentrated in the unventilated rooms, been recirculated and concentrated by the air cons and subsequently caused this senseless and tragic incident.

One chemical candidate is Acrolein, it has a piercing, disagreeable, acrid smell similar to that of burning fat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein

It is sometimes used as a contact herbicide to control submersed and floating weeds, as well as algae, in irrigation canals and water treatment ponds.

Acrolein is a severe pulmonary irritant and lachrymatory agent. It was used as a chemical weapon during World War I. It is, however, not outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention. Skin exposure to acrolein causes serious damage. Acrolein concentrations of 2 ppm are immediately harmful.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mhmi/mmg124.html

Acrolein is toxic by all exposure routes. Exposure causes inflammation and irritation of the skin, respiratory tract, and mucous membranes. Delayed pulmonary edema may occur after inhalation. Systemic effects may occur after exposure by any route.

Acrolein produces irritation of the respiratory tract, increases airway resistance and tidal volume, and decreases respiratory frequency. It is also ciliastatic. Exposure to acrolein vapor concentrations as low as 10 ppm can lead to pulmonary edema and death. Inhalation may also cause an asthmatic reaction in sensitized individuals.

However one of the reported symptoms was extreme nausea and vomiting which is not reported in Acrolein inhalation poisoning but is reported when ingested.

Helping to get to the truth in this matter will bring some comfort to the friends and families of those who died and hopefully prevent this from happening again.

Please do your part to uncover the truth in this tragic mystery.

"Smokin Aces"

A really poor attempt at Tarentinos fine "True Romance"

What about some of David Lynch's inscrutable and often unwatchable films.

I liked Lost Highway, Mullholland Drive, Blue Velvet but I also hated them...

"Sometimes, I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!"

-Donnie Darko

rice, in the form it's eaten for the last 100 years, without the husk, hasn't got any vitamins and minerals. In poor countries based on rice there is a risk of an illness called beri beri - which killed tens of millions. On potato you can live because it has all the nutrients.

Just to clarify a little.

Beri Beri is principally caused by Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) deficiency and is largely associated with consumption of polished rice which is deficient in Vitamin B1 because of the removal of the germ layer.

It is also associated with chronic alcoholism and poor diet.

The assertion that rice doesn't have ANY nutritional value is untrue as even "white" rice has fat, fibre, protein, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium and some B vitamins, as well as carbohydrates.

See: http://www.pechsiam.com/allabout_nutrition.htm

for nutritional comparisons of white, fragrant, brown and glutinous varieties.

The inclusion of Thiamine-rich foods such as liver, beef, pork and bananas can prevent Thiamine deficiency in a diet rich in polished rice such as found in Thailand and elsewhere throughout Asia.

It is interesting to note that so-called "energy' drinks like Krating Daeng, M-150, Lipovitan etc. are high in Vitamin B1 and probably play an important role in supplementing the dietery requirements of Thai people.

Potatoes by contrast have about 1/3 the amount of protein as rice per a 100 gram serving.

Potatoes do contain significant mineral and vitamin content especially, strangely enough Vitamin C.

So the conclusion is that while rice isn't the "perfect" food it is certainly not devoid of nutritional value.

And for my money it still tastes better with Pad Kraphaow Mooh than a spud does!

Definitely, Thai Hom Mali.

If the rice is good then anything you put over it tastes better.

I must be assimilated because I can't go a day without eating a bowl or two.

The produce section is a bit lacking in organization but I bought the most gorgeous (organic) Khraphow I have ever seen in any market. No wilting, mildew, mold or dirt. Wow.

Villa makes a nice addition to the other "specialty" markets.

I still like Friendship and Foodland better though.

Wandered 'round there yesterday.

I agree the Bossa Nova sounds a little surrealistic but very cool!

It is laid out a little confusingly but once they get the rest of the shops open and the construction finished it looks like it might be a winner.

Can you imagine there is an Apple store in there? Weird but very upscale positioning. Mega cool giant Apple Dsiplay LCD Monitor in the window.

The fountains stunk like an excessive amount of chlorine. Phew.