seahorse

Colonel Prachum Ruangthong said the victims' bodies were found naked on a rocky beach, with the woman reportedly wearing just a bikini top and their clothes blood-stained.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-thailand-david-miller-jersey-hannah-witheridge-named-back-pack-murder-victims-first-1465533

In this report, the Surat Thani police say that "their clothes" were "blood-stained." Was the blood on these clothes tested for DNA? If not, why not?

thailandchilli, on 05 Mar 2015 - 06:40, said:

I see Reprieve is not letting this one go, new article published in the Jersey Evening Post (Davids local)

The Jersey State police are denying giving info over to the Thai Authorities, they said they gave it to Interpol...........yea and who did Interpol give it to after that???

Human rights group Reprieve takes up the case on behalf of pair accused of murder.

"However in a statement the States police, which usually follows British protocol, said they have had no direct contact with Thai authorities.

‘Following a request from Interpol, the States Police obtained a witness statement which was then sent back to Interpol.

'We have had no direct contact with Thai authorities. Our Family Liaison Officers continue to work in support of David Miller’s family,’ the statement read."

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/03/03/thai-murders-fears-raised-by-human-rights-group-over-possible-execution/

Not only have the suspects been indicted but it appears UK, Jersey and Thai Authorities are working together on this

Here's an earlier article from the Jersey Evening Post. The timeline it quotes is interesting in that the names of the victims were known by late afternoon of September 15th, if the times quoted are Thailand time and not U.K. I still do not understand how Sean McAnna could not have known his friend David Miller had been killed on the day of the murders.

Lets not forget though that two young people lost their lives in the most horrific way. There are some tributes to David Miller in the comments section.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/02/19/witnesses-sought-in-thai-murder-case/

'I still do not understand how Sean McAnna could not have known his friend David Miller had been killed on the day of the murders'

He knew about the murder but he didn't know who it was .

Sven Hutchinson wrote on Twitter

'there is CCTV of that from a bar he was often in to confirm. He didn't know who had been killed until we all did'

http://ow.ly/JZznO

Thanks for the link. Sven Hutchinson's tweets are quite revealing. It's easy to understand why Sean ended up being threatened in the minimart.

Indeed.

Like Sean thinking "it was the AC bar owner" and "he went investigating at that bar". I know that people have said that Sean got that wrong because M is the owner of Intouch whereas the owner of the AC bar is H. Could Sean have meant NS? NS could have bragged about being the owner of AC to Sean.

Why would he go "investigating"? What did he find out?

Sven also says that Sean "got his days earlier". I'm sure this is a reference to the cut on his arm. One of Sean's explanations for this was that he had got into a fight with a Thai guy over a room. That could be true. Who was that Thai guy? Maybe this guy was one of David's attackers but Sean wasn't there on that night.

There is also mention of "planted evidence". Wonder what that was in reference to?

Also a guy called Claus Keeling-Kugelberg made the following statement about Sean.

when, making the accusations, he in fact pointed out the owner of In Touch on his earlier FB comments a a possible culprit (Quote "the guy on the left").

https://www.facebook.com/rajprasong/posts/870378562972372

I think David was hiding from his friends (the Ware bros) the fact that he was having a fling with Hannah, in case his girlfriend back home found out.

Hannah was obviously a very attractive young woman who a lot of men would have been interested in. From all accounts she was a nice person too. And apparently so was David. It would be only natural for them to be attracted to each other.

Thai police said they had CCTV of Mr Miller and Ms Witheridge walking together, and later footage showing a man - described as being of Asian appearance - who is now the prime suspect.

Police say they have examined CCTV footage showing the two victims leaving a bar late on Sunday night, walking towards the beach - but they were killed in a hidden spot behind some rocks, and no eyewitnesses have yet been found.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29225672

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

The B2 said they went for a swim and when they came back their clothes had been stolen. We have seen a picture of a guy walking about wearing a t-shirt of one of them and one flip-flop. I think that is consistent with their story. Now, who is he and what was he doing?

The most widely accepted definition of torture internationally is that set out by Article 1 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT):

“... 'torture' means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”

http://www.irct.org/what-is-torture/defining-torture.aspx

This definition contains three cumulative elements:

• the intentional infliction of severe mental or physical suffering
• by a public official, who is directly or indirectly involved
• for a specific purpose.

http://www.apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/

“I testified exactly what I knew to be true – that I drank beer with my friends Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin, that I left them on the beach to go to my girlfriend’s room, and that I found them sleeping in our room when I came home around 5 in the morning.

“I testified neither in favour of my friends nor the Thai police because I believe everyone should be treated equally under the law,” he said. “I have told the truth since the beginning. I would not say my friends committed that crime even if it were to cause harm to me.”

He said that while in police detention he was physically held down and intimidated during interrogation.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040

As I said, Maung Maung was tortured and refused to dob his mates in.

I believe he is telling the truth.

Running man is NOT Mon

Prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3sHTxNP2N4

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528835.600-cameras-know-you-by-your-walk.html

rockingrobin, on 16 Feb 2015 - 17:47, said:

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Interesting that this report says an altercation happened at the Intouch bar, rather than at the AC bar as claimed in most other reports.

The chief investigator was speaking after police had summoned the owner of the Intouch Bar for questioning after investigators discovered that both victims had visited the bar and had had an altercation before they were found dead.

So, is this true or not? The Intouch guesthouse complex is certainly closest to the crime scene (apart from the Ocean View guesthouse where David and Hannah were actually staying) and is owned by Mon, although he apparently also manages the AC bar. It is hard to keep up with all these differences in reporting.

Also interesting from that report.

Panya also promised that the investigation would not be influenced by reports that some influential persons on the island might try to obstruct police work.

Meanwhile, a police source said it was not possible that people on the island did not have any knowledge of what might have happened on the night of the murder. The source said may be they don't want to talk to police, as they do not want to have problems with an influential group.

"I slowed down but still rammed into the cars piled up in front of me," he said.

Didn't slow down enough, then.

1. They were seen together at a guesthouse in Phuket.

2. They stayed in adjacent rooms (with their respective friends) on Koh Tao a few days later.

Then how do you explain the fact that David Miller and Chris Ware were in Koh Phangan before travelling to Koh Tao? There are pictures of them at the full moon party.

If David had been involved with Hannah as much as you say, then I don't think David Miller's girlfriend would have stayed so loyal to him - which is evident from her facebook posts since the murders.

In a police interview Mr Ware told officers that David then told him he was going out to get some cigarettes but another friend revealed he went instead to nightclub AC to meet up with Hannah and her friend Emma Madeline.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html#ixzz3RLUleRio

Hiding it from Chris so Chris couldn't give him away to his girlfriend when they got home to England a few days later?

I don't know what their itinerary was, but they could have gone Phuket-Pha Ngan-Tao in a week no problem.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am.

http://sheffieldinnews.com/did-thai-murder-victims-argue-with-island-gangster-before-they-were-brutally-killed-locals-claim-no-one-will-speak-out-because-they-are-too-scared/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764038/Did-Thai-murder-victims-argue-island-gangster-hour-brutally-killed-Locals-claim-no-one-speak-scared.html

One of Hannah's housemates, Lucy Dunkley, 25, said yesterday: "The girls who she was out there with said David was just lovely and obviously really smitten with Hannah."

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Thai+cops%3A+We%27re+close+to+snaring+beach+killer.-a0383598832

It all seems pretty obvious to me even without counting my friend's eye witness report.

1. They were seen together at a guesthouse in Phuket. (The guesthouse owner can verify that and the RTP could check immigration records. It could be something the RTP have up their sleeves to make their case seem more credible.)
2. They stayed in adjacent rooms (with their respective friends) on Koh Tao a few days later.
3. They were found dead together behind secluded rocks a few metres away from each other.
4. One of Hannah's closest friends who wasn't on the trip let it slip that David was "smitten" with Hannah.

It's possible that part of the RTP story is true i.e. they were together on the beach before the attack. The best lies are based on a grain of truth.

It would explain some of the little details like David's shirt off before the attack and wearing only one sock.

>>> friends of David & Hannah could speak up as to what happened at the bars.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm whether Hannah smoked or not, and how much alcohol she consumed.

>>> friends of Hannah could confirm when they last saw her and who was with her, and did she have her mobile phone with her.

>>> friends of David could confirm when they last saw him and who was with him.

>>> friends of David could opinion whether there was any 'relationship' with Hannah.

It troubles me that there has been no statements by the 'friends'. Zilch. Their information could be invaluable in proving the innocence (or guilt) of the B2. I wonder why no-one has spoken. Is anyone else implicated?

I'm beginning to consider that Hannah wouldn't walk back to her room alone or go to the beach with other than farangs. Where did the other girls stay? Was there another girl on the beach with Hannah? One that did wear lipstick and smoke? One that did run away when the attacks began, and scarper from the island PDQ?

Alternatively, Hannah must have walked along the beach with David and/or Sean. How did they meet up after leaving the bars separately - David on his own and Hannah with two girlfriends?

One of Hannah's housemates, Lucy Dunkley, 25, said yesterday: "The girls who she was out there with said David was just lovely and obviously really smitten with Hannah."

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Thai+cops%3A+We%27re+close+to+snaring+beach+killer.-a0383598832

My (reliable) friend claims he saw David and Hannah together in Phuket just before the murders. He said he stayed at the same guesthouse as them.

Maybe this one reason why the friends are keeping quiet.

It's also alleged that Sean McAnna was in fact on the beach playing his guitar that night/morning. It's been confirmed a day then retracted by a British expat who works at a dive school on Koh Tao. It was also reported in the press and then Sean changed his story. He changed his story about his injury being from a bike accident to being stabbed by a Thai over a room for rent.

Sean McAnna holds the key in my honest opinion. Despite his protestations not one bit of evidence has surfaced of his injury being seen prior to that night. Unlike Chris Ware who has photographic evidence. However Sean has melted away. Saving his own skin. To scared to come forward. Perhaps he could be implicated someway. Who knows.

Yes. Sean did say that he was on the beach.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/police-release-suspects-in-murder-of-two-brits-in-koh-tao.html

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

Speaking to reporters yesterday, Mr. Montriwat said he is entirely "innocent." He also disputed reports that Mr. Miller and Ms. Witheridge were involved in a row at the bar he owned prior to their deaths.

Mr. Montriwat said it was actually the Scotsman who should be treated as a suspect. "On the night of the murder, a spa worker told me [he/she] helped clean splatters of blood from Sean's body."

He also claimed that he and his friend cornered Mr. McAnna because they wanted to question him about his whereabouts on the night the two Britons were killed.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411548167&section=12

Mon also confirms that he knows Sean was there on the beach at the time.

He also confirms that he is taking a keen interest in the case, first entering the crime scene to consult with police officers and now questioning suspects (after cornering them).

Also Sean and Mon both agree about what the subject of conversation was in the convenience store incident.

Why did Sean not use his own phone there? Where was his phone? What happened to it? What photos are on it? What happened just before they were in the convenience store?

Whose blood is on Sean's guitar? Why did he not want to clean it off?

And which one of these two is telling the truth when Mon says Sean did it and Sean said "He did it?" I think they both know. And one of them was telling the truth.

I believe the Scots mon this time with what he thought might be his last words..

There has been a lot of criticism of the families here. I think it is unwarranted. Who amongst us knows what it's like to have this happen to your child? Who knows what all is going on in their minds?

I'm sure the UK authorities will have told them how things work in Thailand. Behind the scenes and quietly, they will have been advised by the Foreign Office that there is really nothing much that they can do. It really is up to the Thai authorities as to how murders are treated on their soil. Their children were merely guests here.

All they can do is wait and see what happens.

• The way that Hannah's body was sexually posed further indicates the extent of the killer's anger and is intended to send a very spiteful, hateful message, which suggests that even after murdering her the anger and hatred had not subsided, hence the posing. Here is an interesting article on posing: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.practicalhomicide.com%2FResearch%2FISJjuly2010.pdf&ei=P7y0VMaXEND8ugSdnoDABQ&usg=AFQjCNH1B2cnPbGwnnviXCXtuR4Jmo5MwQ&bvm=bv.83339334,d.c2E

For those who don't have time to read all of that (I didn't) - here is an extract from the conclusion.

The data indicate that sexual

posing is a highly personal action on the part of the offender, which oftentimes involves extreme

emotion, anger and rage. The most prevalent motive is fantasy driven behavior (71%). In these

instances the offender subconsciously acted-out a sexually significant behavioral pattern to

obtain sexual satisfaction. The second most frequent motivation was anger/retaliation (22%). In

those cases the offender uses sex as a weapon to punish and degrade the victim; the body is

posed out of anger, to retaliate against the victim for some real or apparent slight of the offender.

It is fortunate that the least often seen offender motivation for sexual posing is to misdirect the

investigation, occurring in 7% of the cases. The rarity of such events, of course, does not suggest

that they deserve any less attention in the training regimen of investigators.

It certainly doesn't fit with the story put to us by the RTP and their apologists that the Burmese two just became aroused.