seahorse

So the photos of the two on the beach in helmets and vests was taken within 1-2 days of their confession?

Typically a bruise gets more discolored after 24-24 hours, yet there are no visible bruises at all on either man. Not even one. Not to say they weren't roughed up but if they suffered "extreme duress" and "torture" I do wish there was some small evidence of corroboration,

There is corroboration in the opening post of this thread. Perhaps you should read about this subject before posting?

Parinya also said a Rohingya interpreter was used during the police interrogation of the two suspects, who are from Rakhine state, who allegedly bore a grudge against Rohingya people, apart from their different languages.

He added that both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly".

Some questions...

1) Why is banana pancake man wearing a golf tee with RTP insignia? Was he recently "deputized" and now legally in the employ of the RTP?

2) Prior to being the first foreign national to graduate from the RTP academy and receiving his badge (in record time I might add), was banana pancake man working and living legally on Koh Tao? If not, it makes Question #1 even more relevant.

Well, observed mate.

I never even noticed his disguise. Since, this was probably him masquerading as a RTP official to keep this farcical spectacle alive and well, adding a little more glamour to this charade of imposters trying to make out - like this is really is what happened ….

My thoughts exactly. The white-washing, sleight of hand (or uniforms in this case), inconsistencies and changing theories of the RTP have turned this tragedy into a travesty. I am not assigning guilt to or presuming the innocence of any of the parties implicated in this case so far, just raising some questions about the case that remain to be answered. It just seems that at every new development, there is a purposeful misdirection on the part of the authorities to make the difficult questions go away. It appears they decided early on how the case would turn out and are now trying to fit "evidence" to match up with their desired outcome instead of the other way around--letting the evidence tell the story.

Early on in the case when the RTP claimed the murders were a crime of passion perpetrated by a spurned lover who flew into a jealous homosexual rage, the police (after preliminary investigation) concluded that there were at least 3 perpetrators and 2 weapons (the 3 perps and 2 weapons part being about the only plausible thing they have said about the whole case). However, as the focus of the investigation turned to a Thai national and then to undocumented migrant workers,this theory seems to have been abandoned. It appears that now the RTP "have their guys," the 3 perpetrators and 2 weapons theory is gone with the wind--unless we are to believe the second weapon was the plastic dust collector seen in the "re-enactment." My question is, what happened to the third (or possibly 4th or 5th) perp? It stretches my imagination to understand how only two individuals could simultaneously assault Mr. Miller and drown him (while he was evidently fighting back) and subdue, sexually assault and murder Ms. Witheridge.

My second question is, early media reports claimed the RTP sent DNA samples to Singapore for analysis. Are the RTP willing to provide the name of the agency or private lab in Singapore to confirm the DNA analysis was indeed conducted offshore? Are the RTP willing to publish the results of the analysis for public scrutiny? This would certainly lend some credibility to their claims. As it stands, I haven't seen anything to date that indicates that any DNA left Thailand.

Finally, if the university in Bangkok was willing to handover CCTV footage to the lawyer representing Mr. Warot (which many have claimed was doctored), would the university be willing to make available to the public the same footage without the interference of an intermediary who is being paid to protect the interests of his client? This would also lend some credibility to official RTP story.

It stretches my imagination to understand how only two individuals could simultaneously assault Mr. Miller and drown him (while he was evidently fighting back) and subdue, sexually assault and murder Ms. Witheridge.

There have been suggestions on CSI LA that Ms Witheridge might have been drugged.

The BIB have dug themselves a massive hole, be interesting to see them try and dig out of this.

The outcome of this will depend on the General's stance.

In my opinion, it's a wonderful opportunity for him to show he's sincere about wishing to stamp out police incompetence and corruption.

Only problem is that he already congratulated them for a perfect and well-done job. Now he will have a problem explaining that.

The PM/General can wiggle out of this as he is after all the main man. Send the cops off to inactive posts make the Islands head man's life uncomfortable, he may even fall over in the shower. put 500 soldiers on the Island. Whatever he wants.

I would like to see Koh Tao be made a National Park, cleared of any human occupation and kept as a wildlife sanctuary. Can't see it happening, though.

WARNING - HEARSAY post.

So, this is what the CSI guys have been hearing from folks on the island, please don't bite my head off for posting rumours, but in the absence of cold hard facts I think its interesting at least to hear what people who are scared to speak publicly are willing to whisper in secret, make of it what you will.

Sean was indeed tight with Nomsod and family - he worked in their bar, we all know that much.

People have alleged that both Sean and Nomsod are known to gangbang tourists, sometimes using date-rape drugs. Nomsod's English is not so good so Sean was a good middle man, as someone put it.

We also know that Sean has a sexual offence in his past. I SAY AGAIN - I'm posting what I hear, if you DON"T LIKE IT then skip my post.

Also, Sean is still alive because he uploaded a song to his Soundcloud page 4 days ago. I have already sent him a message asking him to speak out

I think the song is Sean's way of speaking out.

There is witnessed evidence to support they were at the crime scene ... so then how come it seems that the two have no inkling as to who might have done it?

They might know but are too afraid to say anything.

Who do they work for? Who tells them what to do?

"However, both suspects insisted [to me] that they had committed the crimes," said the human-rights commissioner.

Just asking but..........does that statement not sound really strange to you ? I mean insisted ?

Although i Absolutely do not believe these two acted alone.

I would like to believe that these young boys were not involved at all.

Still, people should prepare themselves for the fact that the boys may be in part responsible for some sections of the crime.

That is why i will not contribute to a fund defending them.

Though i would contribute to a fund to pay a private person to investigate the truth of what happened. Namely how david died, since it is not possible for him to have been hit with a hoe. As it had not David dna. And who used the condom, . And the sequence of events how it happened. And who are the other culprits.

I would suggest that the British police forensic team have sufficiently knowledge to ascertain how he died and a full report would already be in the hands of those who will act on it when the time is right. Of course you realise the British police unlike the Thai don't mouth-off all day with bullsh1t stories changeable every day to suit the current situation.

Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice (1596): "Truth will come to light; murder cannot be hid long; a man's son may, but in the end truth will out."

Please never EVER compare the RTP to the Keystone Cops. The Cops were funny, the RTP couldn't ever be classed as anything amusing in the slightest. Quite the opposite.

It is an open and shut case. Move one.

Yes, move one Nom Sod fresh milk into a cage for life.

More likely he'll soon be 'continuing his studies' outside the country.

Where do you think he would be safe?

A step in the right direction. Good to see that folks were standing up against the RTP threats towards public to not question the investigation. Talkin' about power to the people! Finally the ball is rolling, some heads will follow soon.

NOW is the time for the parents to speak up and send in a British investigation team!

To me it is utterly disturbing to see that tens of thousands of complete strangers seem to care more about finding out the truth than Hannah's and David's parents! Their silence is deafening and makes me angry! Grieving time, yes - but if I were a father of one of those kids, I would be here in Thailand by now with Interpol and would turn that cesspit of an island upside down!!!!

I have agreed with most of your posts about this subject as I think they have hit the nail on the head.

However I don't agree with your criticism of Hannah and David's parents. I think that's harsh. None of us can understand what they are going through. It must be horrendous. They have only just held the funerals.

And Hannah's parents have actually issued a statement which I find to be very revealing.

“As a family we hope that the right people are found and brought to justice.”

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/essex_hannah_witheridge_s_family_speak_of_indescribable_agony_1_3799139

The word that stands out for me is "right". That infers that they don't believe the Burmese did it.

Not surprising that the other Burmese migrant workers would not want to believe fellow countrymen had committed the crime.

Such a statment has zero credibility.

Its no different than a Senior Thai Police official suggesting the same about a Thai.

This article offers little useful insight except the interpreter issue. It would be worth clarifying the interviews by having the taped recordings heard by additional Native burmese translators familiar with the same dialect.

Was the interrogation taped?

Even if it wan't, the two suspects readily admit their guilt so it would not be difficult to have them explain themselves to a Native speaker/interpreter.

But they explained themselves to the interpreter. They told him they didn't do it. A policeman hit them once. The interpreter hit them 4 times. They were threatened with electrocution. There are documented cases where the RTP have done this to people in custody in the past. They concentrate on the genital area. They then agreed to sign a confession saying they did it. It would take a very strong man to resist this kind of pressure. Their friend now also says he had nothing to do with it.

This information is readily available all over the internet and especially on this forum. Why are you cluttering this thread up with your ignorance?

Two young people's lives have been taken by a maniac backed up by at least one other maniac. Now these two young Burmese men's lives hang in the balance. The police have not made a good enough case to take those lives. I am not convinced that they are the maniacs. Not in the slightest.

Parinya also said a Rohingya interpreter was used during the police interrogation of the two suspects, who are from Rakhine state, who allegedly bore a grudge against Rohingya people, apart from their different languages.

He added that both suspects bore wounds as a result of what they claimed was "the police not treating them properly".

Did Mr Parinya use the same interpreter? Does he speak Burmese? How did these suspects communicate with him?

When they speak to their own people in their own language they say they didn't do it. They also say that a policeman and the interpreter hit them. Mr Parinya provides confirmation that the suspects have been hit.

The truth will out.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/essex_hannah_witheridge_s_family_speak_of_indescribable_agony_1_3799139

Let's spare a thought for the family of poor Hannah

Yes, indeed. We can only imagine what they're going through.

There is an interesting quote from the article: “As a family we hope that the right people are found and brought to justice.”

That makes me think that they don't believe that the Burmese are responsible. They have the right to ask for the UK to conduct its own investigation if they are not happy with the Thai investigation....

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

This will help you get the image.

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/712038985540496/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/a.600950366649359.1073741828.596740650403664/708575842553477/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Those who continue to ridicule the police, try to throw spanners into the works of the said investigation and make unfounded, unproven accusations against the Thai authorities, could be considered as enemies of the State, that I have no doubts will hold serious consequences for those detected.

Contrary to popular belief there are no 100% ways of staying anonymous online and when the IP addresses of the trouble makers are detected, the police can obtain a court order and impose that their ISPs submit the online activities of those concerned.

The people that are actively involved and making derogatory comments against the police and the Thai authorities on forums and in the social media who are staying in Thailand and following those living outside the Kingdom, such as participating in petitions and making negative statements are mugs, because they are leaving themselves vulnerable.and will be left holding the bag, for example visa extensions denied or even the possibility of arrest.

The above mentioned is only common sense and whether those involved continue to carry on with this of not is at their own risk and discretion.

You live and work on Koh Tao, right? You have a vested interest in tourists coming to the island, right? It would be in your interests if this all blew over quickly, right?

Koh Tao was on my "to go" list. I had plans to go to Koh Tao this new year with my family. I won't be going there now or any time soon. There's at least one murderer and/or two rapists on the loose, not to mention some extremely dubious other people.

What my you think he has any vested interest in Koh Tao??

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765780-koh-tao-murders-thai-authorities-deny-scapegoat-allegation/?view=findpost&p=8484991

Those who continue to ridicule the police, try to throw spanners into the works of the said investigation and make unfounded, unproven accusations against the Thai authorities, could be considered as enemies of the State, that I have no doubts will hold serious consequences for those detected.

Contrary to popular belief there are no 100% ways of staying anonymous online and when the IP addresses of the trouble makers are detected, the police can obtain a court order and impose that their ISPs submit the online activities of those concerned.

The people that are actively involved and making derogatory comments against the police and the Thai authorities on forums and in the social media who are staying in Thailand and following those living outside the Kingdom, such as participating in petitions and making negative statements are mugs, because they are leaving themselves vulnerable.and will be left holding the bag, for example visa extensions denied or even the possibility of arrest.

The above mentioned is only common sense and whether those involved continue to carry on with this of not is at their own risk and discretion.

You live and work on Koh Tao, right? You have a vested interest in tourists coming to the island, right? It would be in your interests if this all blew over quickly, right?

Koh Tao was on my "to go" list. I had plans to go to Koh Tao this new year with my family. I won't be going there now or any time soon. There's at least one murderer and/or two rapists on the loose, not to mention some extremely dubious other people.

The Guardian Newspaper UK have followed The Telegraph's lead, posted half and hour ago :-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/suspects-britons-murder-thailand-police-brutality

"Thai police officers threatened the two suspects with electrocution during a violent interrogation before the pair agreed to admit to killing Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, according to a Burmese embassy lawyer who spoke to the men on Tuesday."

Hopefully more UK press articles on their way-The world IS watching.

Photographic evidence of their alleged abuse, seen by the Guardian, has been passed to the British ambassador to Thailand, Mark Kent

I find this to be the most interesting thing from this Guardian report.

anyone got a link to the mentioned article in the Irrawaddy?

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-government-rights-groups-raise-concerns-koh-tao-murder-case.html

Let's hypothetically say that it was the Headmans son who did this?

Usually murderers are repeat offenders.

He cannot possibly try to murder someone again because that would definitely nail the coffin in Koh Toa's tourist industry and ruin his dad's business and lose all their money.

But most importantly, why have we not heard anything from the other son or about the son? We've heard about Warot but what about the other one???

I've seen Waruts Facebook. He looks like a arrogant little idiot.

Thai food is my favourite cuisine and visiting there was in my bucket list. It has now been crossed off, and by many others I know too.

In the original story, one son warot was in university, but the other son was on the run and hiding in Bangkok.

Warot is a smokescreen. He is the middle child.

The older son has disappeared and gone into a hole much the same as Sean. It is difficult to even find a name on him

Would this be him?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202707588187610&set=a.1458770266015.2065465.1136151696&type=1&theater

Seems like a nice guy.

Come and ask me here. Come and ask me there. I am a Koh Tao resident, although my mom gave birth to me at Surat Tani. My family is very close to all the influential figures on this island, including the owner of this resort.

I want to tell the truth. I can't hold it any longer. I would like to tell "Trasher Page" that the murderers are not Burmese."That's all I want to say" and What "CSI LA Page" published, it is very close to the truth 97.8769%.

I would like to say that Koh Tao is just like a Kingdom of its own. The local mafia family can do whatever they want and get away with it. For example, in 2011, a bar owner got shot to death. Everybody in the island know who did it, but never had the nerve to speak out. People here are strange. They are wiling to cover up wrong doing for the local mafia. Thailand might be a democratic country, but in Koh Tao it is Feudalism.

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210?fref=ts

From reading the news here on a daily basis, it seems to me that EVERY government is riddled with corruption.

But this it taking it to another magnificent level...

"Burning down the cameras sometimes is the work of officials who want to destroy evidence,'' an official said

I try not to think the worst about Thailand, but ongoing stories like this one make it so hard. Guess Chalerm

got it wrong when he said the cameras were burnt by a losing bidder

You may be interested in a quote from a previous topic that talked to corruption in Thai government agencies:

One category was 'Absence of corruption'. What apparently no-one bothered to do, was look at the actual underlying data and subcategories. And for the corruption part it is very frightening: Although the total score for Thailand for absence of corruption is a 0.41 (1 being the best), which is already rather poor, the specific subcategory '2.4 Government officials in the legislative branch do not use public office for private gain' scored a 0.06 http://worldjusticep...ountry/thailand. Of all the countries looked at, only Ukraine managed to score lower than Thailand.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. Actually, Kenya is equal to Thailand on that factor and Nigeria is lower.

I am in no way a conservative person, and I am looking at this whole thing from a psychological aspect.

I find it surprising that so many people are able to enjoy 'paid-sex', with the full knowledge that the other person (or personS...hehe) is doing it for money only.

I am in no way a conservative person, and I am looking at this whole thing from a psychological aspect.

I find it surprising that so many people are able to enjoy 'paid-sex', with the full knowledge that the other person (or personS...hehe) is doing it for money only.

Has your wife/GF never given you a "nice awakeneing" when she wants something...?

No-one is holding a gun to anyone's head here.

I don't think JemJem has a wife / GF. He looks very gay to me. And therefore little or no experience of what women think.

I am in no way a conservative person, and I am looking at this whole thing from a psychological aspect.

I find it surprising that so many people are able to enjoy 'paid-sex', with the full knowledge that the other person (or personS...hehe) is doing it for money only.

You are correct. You are in no way a conservative person.

I think there are more surprises in life in store for you.