Membrane

Welcome Back G-P!

I check in once in a while to keep an eye on the place too...

Membrane

As for you membrane;  Please do not forget that just two hundred years ago the English said we would never win, just 56 years ago, everyone thought the Israelis would go away and the problems would stop.  Dayan bombed British Schools and he was one of the terrorist of his time and yet he is considered one of the founding father of his nation.

By the way membrane "I AM IN LOVE WITH YOUR AVATAR"  Who is it?

Mouse - As I said before, I take terrorism very seriously. In fact, the fight against terrorism should be treated as serious as life itself, because that's exactly what is at stake. But it's not in arrogance that I feel we will prevail. It's that I deeply feel that the good, decent people all around the world will not allow fundamentalist, crack-pot, Islamic extremist religious nuts to ruin the world. I do believe though, that not enough people have had their eyes opened to the full terrorist threat yet, because too many are focussing on GWB's shortcomings or other relatively irrelevent distractions. And if the U.S. (and it's allies) do it's job well enough, the world may never know just how good of a job it has done and will continue to do, because so much of the fight is covert and so therefore doesn't make the headlines. So the disgruntled of the world will continue to ignorantly bash and blame the U.S. for this or for that, never realizing that all the while, we have been working hard in the background, in order to save their lives and preserve their freedoms.

Now on a (much) lighter note, I love my little avatar girlie too! And here she is, in all her splendor:

I thought the posting by membrane was very interesting, and thanks for it. I don't get time to spend a lot of energy over the O/S newspapers much any more and appreciate most things technical.

If you see stuff like that again Membrane, feel free to post it. It is very informative and quite interesting.

Will do, IT. Being an IT guy as well, I love all things technical...

You gotta be kidding me, right? We NEEDED to be BOMBED? Are you for real? Do you have even a shred of human decency about you? That's about as "smart" as when Thaksin recently said his own Thai troops "deserved to die" because they were unable to defend themselves against Muslim terrorists in the south.

That's really a sick, disgusting statement. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting that adjan. You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one.

I just think that their days are not numbered. Terrorism will never disapear. If you believe so, you're just as dumb or as naive as your president.

And it's not a game : there's no winner, there's no loser (except the victims).

WWIII ?!?!    Are you sane ? Do you think that the Eyesore Towers and 2000 victims are enough to justify a world war ?

I'm neither on your side, nor on the terrorists' side.

Really? Because it sure sounds like you want the terrorists to win. With your cute names for the Twin Towers (calling them the "Eyesore Towers") and all of your other consistently-negative-towards-America postings, I think you ache for the U.S. to get it's a$$ kicked. C'mon adjan--admit it! Be a man and stand up and say it--it's not just Bush you hate, you hate anything and everything American.

And let's not get personal here--you don't want to try to egg me into a flame war do you? Like your friend "the gent" did with G-P? Hmmm?? Please don't tell me that's your agenda--prove it by not starting off this discussion by calling ANYONE stupid, etc.

And I never said it's "a game". It's very serious stuff. And I never said the Twin Towers or the 3,500+ victims justified WWIII--so don't go putting words in my mouth, slick boy.

No, look--the truth is, there are radical Islamic extremists who are itching for a fight. They see the world through their angry, blood-tinted glasses they wear every day and live in a hate-filled world of their own making. They even corrupt their own youth with hatred and anger, brainwashing them at an early age, by indoctrinating them into a sick and twisted view of the world and the west. These people want to bring the world to it's knees because they are religious kooks and nutcases who are on a CRUSADE to convert the world to Islam. As much as people laugh at Christians for doing this, they are far, far worse.

No, the Twin Towers incident by itself is not enough for WWIII. The terrorists WANT their beloved "war on Islam" they keep trying to start. That way, they can vent their anger and hatred on SOMEBODY and convert the world to their twisted perverted version of Islam. If the situation gets bad enough to actually start a WWIII, it will be because of them, not setting down at the negotiation table and doing something productive--like bringing peace to the Palestinians, for example....

EVER WONDER WHY THEY NEVER DO THAT?? Think about it.... If you can't figure it out, it's because THEY DON'T WANT PEACE. They want war. Now how do you deal with a mentality like that?

The terrorists are smart--but not smart enough.  Their days are numbered... 

If you believe so, you too need all the help you can get.

What? You really think they can win, over the rest of the civilized world? Get a grip, man! It may have to come to WWIII, but those scum-sucking pigs will never win!

You are picking the wrong side my friend...

But hopefully Membrane is here to enlighten us with THE truth. Thanks Lord.

You need it pal. You need all of my help you can get.

God is definitely great.

Yes! You are welcome.

Alluah Akbar!

Interesting article on how different countries in the world are banning together to STAMP OUT TERRORISM using technology. I love reading articles like this. The terrorists are smart--but not smart enough. Their days are numbered...

From an article at the New York Times:

March 4, 2004

How Tiny Swiss Cellphone Chips Helped Track Global Terror Web

By DON VAN NATTA Jr. and DESMOND BUTLER

LONDON, March 2 - The terrorism investigation code-named Mont Blanc began almost by accident in April 2002, when authorities intercepted a cellphone call that lasted less than a minute and involved not a single word of conversation.

Investigators, suspicious that the call was a signal between terrorists, followed the trail first to one terror suspect, then to others, and eventually to terror cells on three continents.

What tied them together was a computer chip smaller than a fingernail. But before the investigation wound down in recent weeks, its global net caught dozens of suspected Qaeda members and disrupted at least three planned attacks in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia, according to counterterrorism and intelligence officials in Europe and the United States.

The investigation helped narrow the search for one of the most wanted men in the world, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who is accused of being the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, according to three intelligence officials based in Europe. American authorities arrested Mr. Mohammed in Pakistan last March.

For two years, investigators now say, they were able to track the conversations and movements of several Qaeda leaders and dozens of operatives after determining that the suspects favored a particular brand of cellphone chip. The chips carry prepaid minutes and allow phone use around the world.

Investigators said they believed that the chips, made by Swisscom of Switzerland, were popular with terrorists because they could buy the chips without giving their names.

"They thought these phones protected their anonymity, but they didn't," said a senior intelligence official based in Europe. Even without personal information, the authorities were able to conduct routine monitoring of phone conversations.

A half dozen senior officials in the United States and Europe agreed to talk in detail about the previously undisclosed investigation because, they said, it was completed. They also said they had strong indications that terror suspects, alert to the phones' vulnerability, had largely abandoned them for important communications and instead were using e-mail, Internet phone calls and hand-delivered messages.

"This was one of the most effective tools we had to locate Al Qaeda," said a senior counterterrorism official in Europe. "The perception of anonymity may have lulled them into a false sense of security. We now believe that Al Qaeda has figured out that we were monitoring them through these phones."

The officials called the operation one of the most successful investigations since Sept. 11, 2001, and an example of unusual cooperation between agencies in different countries. Led by the Swiss, the investigation involved agents from more than a dozen countries, including the United States, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Britain and Italy.

Cellphones have played a major role in the constant jousting between terrorists and intelligence agencies. In their requests for more investigative powers, Attorney General John Ashcroft and other officials have repeatedly cited the importance of monitoring portable phones. Each success by investigators seems to drive terrorists either to more advanced — or to more primitive — communications.

During the American bombing of Tora Bora in Afghanistan in December 2001, American authorities reported hearing Osama bin Laden speaking to his associates on a satellite phone. Since then, Mr. bin Laden has communicated with handwritten messages delivered by trusted couriers, officials said.

In 2002 the German authorities broke up a cell after monitoring calls by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who has been linked by some top American officials to Al Qaeda, in which he could be heard ordering attacks on Jewish targets in Germany. Since then, investigators say, Mr. Zarqawi has been more cautious.

"If you beat terrorists over the head enough, they learn," said Col. Nick Pratt, a counterterrorism expert and professor at the George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany. "They are smart."

Officials say that on the rare occasion when operatives still use mobile phones, they keep the calls brief and use code words.

"They know we are on to them and they keep evolving and using new methods, and we keep finding ways to make life miserable for them," said a senior Saudi official. "In many ways, it's like a cat-and-mouse game."

Some Qaeda lieutenants used cellphones only to arrange a conversation on a more secure telephone. It was one such brief cellphone call that set off the Mont Blanc investigation.

The call was placed on April 11, 2002, by Christian Ganczarski, a 36-year-old Polish-born German Muslim whom the German authorities suspected was a member of Al Qaeda. From Germany, Mr. Ganczarski called Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, said to be Al Qaeda's military commander, who was running operations at the time from a safe house in Karachi, Pakistan, according to two officials involved in the investigation.

The two men did not speak during the call, counterterrorism officials said. Instead, the call was intended to alert Mr. Mohammed of a Qaeda suicide bombing mission at a synagogue in Tunisia, which took place that day, according to two senior officials. The attack killed 21 people, mostly German tourists.

Through electronic surveillance, the German authorities traced the call to Mr. Mohammed's Swisscom cellphone, but at first they did not know it belonged to him. Two weeks after the Tunisian bombing, the German police searched Mr. Ganczarski's house and found a log of his many numbers, including one in Pakistan that was eventually traced to Mr. Mohammed. The German police had been monitoring Mr. Ganczarski because he had been seen in the company of militants at a mosque in Duisburg, and last June the French police arrested him in Paris.

Mr. Mohammed's cellphone number, and many others, were given to the Swiss authorities for further investigation. By checking Swisscom's records, Swiss officials discovered that many other Qaeda suspects used the Swisscom chips, known as Subscriber Identity Module cards, which allow phones to connect to cellular networks.

For months the Swiss, working closely with counterparts in the United States and Pakistan, used this information in an effort to track Mr. Mohammed's movements inside Pakistan. By monitoring the cellphone traffic, they were able to get a fix on Mr. Mohammed, but the investigators did not know his specific location, officials said.

Once Swiss agents had established that Mr. Mohammed was in Karachi, the American and Pakistani security services took over the hunt with the aid of technology at the United States National Security Agency, said two senior European intelligence officials. But it took months for them to actually find Mr. Mohammed "because he wasn't always using that phone," an official said. "He had many, many other phones."

Mr. Mohammed was a victim of his own sloppiness, said a senior European intelligence official. He was meticulous about changing cellphones, but apparently he kept using the same SIM card.

In the end, the authorities were led directly to Mr. Mohammed by a C.I.A. spy, the director of central intelligence, George J. Tenet, said in a speech last month. A senior American intelligence official said this week that the capture of Mr. Mohammed "was entirely the result of excellent human operations."

When Swiss and other European officials heard that American agents had captured Mr. Mohammed last March, "we opened a big bottle of Champagne," a senior intelligence official said.

Among Mr. Mohammed's belongings, the authorities seized computers, cellphones and a personal phone book that contained hundreds of numbers. Tracing those numbers led investigators to as many as 6,000 phone numbers, which amounted to a virtual road map of Al Qaeda's operations, officials said.

The authorities noticed that many of Mr. Mohammed's communications were with operatives in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. Last April, using the phone numbers, officials in Jakarta broke up a terror cell connected to Mr. Mohammed, officials said.

After the suicide bombings of three housing compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on May 12, the Saudi authorities used the phone numbers to track down two "live sleeper cells." Some members were killed in shootouts with the authorities; others were arrested.

Meanwhile, the Swiss had used Mr. Mohammed's phone list to begin monitoring the communications and activities of nearly two dozen of his associates. "Huge resources were devoted to this," a senior official said. "Many countries were constantly doing surveillance, monitoring the chatter."

Investigators were particularly alarmed by one call they overheard last June. The message: "The big guy is coming. He will be here soon."

An official familiar with the calls said, "We did not know who he was, but there was a lot of chatter." Whoever "the big guy" was, the authorities had his number. A Swisscom chip was in the phone.

"Then we waited and waited, and we were increasingly anxious and worried because we didn't know who it was or what he had intended to do," an official said.

But in July, the man believed to be "the big guy," Abdullah Oweis, who was born in Saudi Arabia, was arrested in Qatar. "He is one of those people able to move within Western societies and to help the mujahedeen, who have lesser experience," an official said. "He was at the very center of the Al Qaeda hierarchy. He was a major facilitator."

In January, the operation led to the arrests of eight people accused of being members of a Qaeda logistical cell in Switzerland. Some are suspected of helping with the suicide bombings of the housing compounds in Riyadh, which killed 35 people, including 8 Americans.

Later, European authorities discovered that Mr. Mohammed had contacted a company in Geneva that sells Swisscom phone cards. Investigators said he ordered the cards in bulk.

The Mont Blanc inquiry has wound down, although investigators are still monitoring the communications of a few people. Christian Neuhaus, a spokesman for Swisscom, confirmed that the company had cooperated with the inquiry, but declined to comment.

Last year, Switzerland's legislature passed a law making it illegal to purchase cellphone chips without providing personal information, following testimony from a Swiss federal prosecutor, Claude Nicati, that the Swisscom cards had become popular with Qaeda operatives. The law goes into effect on July 1.

One senior official said the authorities were grateful that Qaeda members were so loyal to Swisscom.

Another official agreed: "They'd switch phones but use the same cards. The people were stupid enough to use the same cards all of the time. It was a very good thing for us."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

But hopefully Membrane is here to enlighten us with THE truth. Thanks Lord.

You need it pal. You need all of my help you can get.

Simply amazing, reading Thaiquila's and adjan jb's postings--simply amazing how little you know of the U.S. and how it works, yet you post as if you do. You know nothing, or at most, you understand very, very little of what is going on in America, what is going on with the war on terror, etc.

For instance, do you really think that the hunt for OBL stopped with the beginning of the operation in Iraq? Are you really that naive? Ever hear of covert operations? The war on terror is a different kind of war, one not always waiged the way you expect to see it.

Aristide? I believe he wanted to stay, but somebody pushed him out. France? USA?

Hey, I got an interesting theory on this: maybe it was the Haitian rebels!

Oh yeah--I almost forgot--add IRAQ to the list (see my post, two above from here).

pick a country for that matter, that the USA hasnt been involved with over thier glorious history of power and manipulation.

The U.S.' glorious history of power and manipulation?? Sure the U.S. is strong and is the last remaining super-power. And thank God for it! Manipulation? Yes. We do manipulate world events--and again, thank God for it.

But let's just take a quick look at some of that "manipulation" and "use of power", shall we?

Here's a list of countries that were either threatened or ruled by communist, fascist or military dictatorships that U.S. military and technological power helped overthrow or else prevented from seizing power:

• Afghanistan
  
• Austria
  
• Albania
  
• Belgium
  
• Bulgaria
  
• Croatia
  
• Czech Republic
  
• Denmark
  
• East Germany
  
• El Salvador
  
• Estonia
  
• Finland
  
• Germany
  
• Greece
  
• Grenada
  
• Hungary
  
• Italy
  
• Japan
  
• Latvia
  
• Lithuania
  
• Netherlands
  
• Nicaragua
  
• Norway
  
• Philippines
  
• Poland
  
• Romania
  
• Russian Federation
  
• Singapore
  
• Slovakia
  
• Slovenia
  
• South Korea
  
• Soviet Union
  
• Taiwan
  
• Turkey
  
• Ukraine
  

I wonder what would have happened to all those people in those countries if we just stopped caring and stopped trying to help--what kind of attrocities would we see then, hmmm?

So the next time you try to comment on how the U.S. uses it's power and manipulation, get your facts straight as how we use our power and how we manipulate world political events.

Plachon, I couldn't care less of what you think of my post. It's just more of the same kind of politics here on this forum. Admin(s) who look the other way when the U.S. is bashed, but then finally get involved when an American dishes out the same kind of shit that is given us. And people like you, who want everything slanted in your favor. Since you've already taken sides with the "gent", your post sounds more like whining than anything I said.

Frightening to think those two together can do over 100 posts a week, and not say anything edifying to others.

No IT, I don't think they both were to blame. Yes, recently there has been a lot of silly back and forth name-calling, etc. between the two of them. But the truth is the "Gentleman" was clearly the instigator in this. His sole purpose here seems to be to bash the U.S. at every possible opportunity. Us Americans get a little tired of that and that everything is so one-sided all the time. Yes, G-P may have gone a little overboard with some of his posts, but he wouldn't have, had some of the admins had called off the Gent.

This is all very reminiscent of the Butterfly vs. Membrane feud from a while back, which ended with us both being called <deleted> (by you) and told to "sit in the corner" for a few days. Butterfly was clearly the instigator but you chose to "whack" both of us--and to suggest that I was as bad as he was--completely untrue. I was simply reacting to his posts and you let him run wild on the board. To "whack" both parties is unfair.

I don't know--maybe you agree with the politics of both of these posters (Butterfly and the Gent)? Perhaps that's why you looked the other way for so long in both instances. I disagree with the decision to punish both parties where one is clearly at fault. In both cases, Butterfly and the Gent caused the problems on the board in the first place, and were left unchecked by the admins for too long.

Membrane

Well, maybe that's a good thing...

I won't discuss this any more than just to say this: I think I know who was the instigator in this little flame war. And I think it's time for everyone to chill out and realize there are people from all over the world on this forum, and that includes Americans. Like I've said many times before, I've gotten sick of constantly reading all negative stuff about my country, my military, my president, etc. I don't necessarily agree with all the decisions that are made here in the U.S., but I thank G-P for at least standing up to those who constantly want to taunt, ridicule and belittle his country.

wow Huski I think the idiot warned you that he might look...

[snip]

Hey (ahem) "Gent" -

Hasn't this gone on far enough?? Aren't you coming awfully close to violating the posted Forum Rules about personally flaming an individual? I realize that you and G-P have been doing the old back and forth for a while, but why not just give it a rest huh?

Just in case you haven't read it, here's a snip from the posted forum rules:

"8. Members may not post items or statements which are designed, in the view of one or more Administrators, to personally attack another member for that members views. (No flaming or flame wars)."

Why not back off a little huh? Chill out a little there dude....

Membrane

He needs to get a document called a "Toto Sam" from the Thai bank. This proves the money came in to Thailand from a foreign source and it's purpose was for the purchase of the condo. This document will allow the bank to transfer the money back out of the country.

It's either that or .... lots of daily ATM withdrawals--but that would take a while!

Does anyone know if Pattaya will be affected by the new midnight bar closing time? It would be ashame as the WHOLE CITY is nothing but bars (just about)!

Field of Dreams. Reminds me of my dad. <sniff.. sniff>

Today's copy of the Nation published an article by the GFar Eastern Economic Review which really puts the boot into Dear Leader.

Should that have been spelled "Der Leader"...?

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush.

Oh really? And what do you think will happen if we don't do something now? I will tell you what will happen: they will continue to bully their way around the world, will continue to recruit members, will continue to build momentum, making it impossible to stop.

I know you're not being literal but this can't be a simple bar-room BET, adjan jb. We can't afford to treat this as an experiment and wait and see what happens... We have to move and stop this now, before it's too late. The consequences of inaction are far too dire to do nothing.

Someone recently asked why GWB should be supported... Good question! Allow me to answer.

Why does GWB need support? Because there is SO MUCH at stake, that's why. It's not that us Americans are rallying behind GWB because we agree with everything he says. What's important is not GWB the man. He's far from perfect, like you, me and everyone else. No, it's not the man that's the important thing, it's what he is trying to get done in the world. This is an extremely important point that some people have consistently failed to understand.

Look, Al-Quaeda is in Iraq. And they're not there to help "liberate their Iraqi brothers". They are not there to help their Palestinian brothers, either. Al-Quaeda's ultimate objective is world domination. Osama Bin Laden has a saviour complex and hates everything that disagrees with his religion and how he thinks things should be. Thus, Al-Quaeda was formed. They are trying to work on the emotions of Muslims world-wide, by inciting hatred and invoking violence. If it works, if they can get the other side to fight back--then they get their "Holy War" they keep talking about. And if they can instigate a holy war, then they can enroll more and more Muslims throughout the world to fight and, eventually take over. The religious nuts will apparently stop at nothing to try to start this holy war. If it takes slitting the throat of a very young Buddhist monk in the south, so be it. If they have to blow themselves up, so be it. The religious leaders behind (including OBL) are masters of manipulating negative emotions like hate and anger. That's why they don't simply come to the table and discuss rationally what they want--they would rather take what they want through emotional manipulation and the best way to do that is to twist and pervert a religion (which is already an unprovable belief system anyway).

They are hoping for enough momentum to grow larger so they can build "Islamic super-states" that can one day be snapped together to form one big world for Allah--but worshipped their way--and you better not get in their way! Osama's Al-Quaeda is hijacking an entire religion to achieve their political objectives. Dig deeper into this and you'll see just how true this is--and frightening. (If you want to learn more of this, read this book or this book).

They want to convert the world to their religion, their form of government, etc. Think I'm wrong? Look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. One small example: The international community wanted to help the Afghani people and so we built a soccer arena. For fun, for sport, for friendly competition. The Taliban used it not for games and community-building events, they used it for things like public executions, and for events where they literally sawed off limbs off of still-living, strapped down prisoners, etc. ...(If you think the new BAR CLOSING TIMES in Thailand are repressive, try living in Afghanistan!)

These are crimes against humanity, and they must be stopped. Someone here recently said something to the effect that "revolutions have to be carried out by the people who live in that country". In other words, the U.S. shouldn't be the one to come in and "rescue" the Iraqi people from Saddam. Why not? Isn't it possible to imagine a country with a dictator so powerful, so strong, so repressive that the people CAN'T fight back? Well... that's what the condition was in Iraq. The same condition exists elsewhere in the world (North Korea, for example), and yes--our work is not done. Not to say we are the world's police, but the U.S. can NOT and will NOT sit idly by and allow terrorists to get any more of a foot hold than they already have. ...And no, it is not possible to sit down and rationally debate with a terrorist. Because their religion is being hijacked and perverted, everything for them is based on emotion and not logic, making it impossible to reason with them or to be diplomatic.

So there is serious work to be done. The U.S. doesn't want to step on anyone's right to worship the god of their choice. Or if you want to be an atheist or an agnostic, that's fine too. But we can not allow a radical terrorist group to ignite and incite hatred around the world, resulting in our own deaths and way of life.

You must admit: the American dream of religious freedom, "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is far better (and more humane and more just and fair), than the repressed way of life suffered by those poor souls living under a tyrant like Saddam or the Taliban regime.

So if you like to bash the U.S. or if you hate GWB, think twice before you throw caution to the wind and indulge yourself. Think about what you are doing before you playfully bad mouth the U.S. and before you needle and harrass and insult the Americans here on this forum. Not to sound "jingoistic" but the U.S. is clearly the world leaders in this fight, literally giving our own hard-earned dollars and spilling our own blood to prevent real oppression in the world. This is real-world, serious stuff--deadly serious and it can't be ignored.

Sure they have a right to disagree. That's one of the components of a democratic style of government. (And what we unconciously all want, even expressed here in this forum). Better to be allowed to disagree than to be told to shut up or risk losing a hand or a foot or your LIFE, like in repressive governments like Saddams.

Thats the point though isnt it mebrane - no post will ever be a "real news story", debate your head off, Ive won - Ill sit and watch!

You've won nothing "gentleman". You're only accomplishment is showing us all how you can copy and paste someone else's point of view. You want to talk about "smoke and mirrors"? That's all you're doing because you aren't posting real news articles that report real world events and then make a comment about it yourself.

You, like Butterfly before you, are dragging this "Bear Pit" down even further than I think the Admins anticipated. And why? So you can pick on--and piss off--us Americans? So you can wage your silly little back-and-forth argument with G-P?

As far as a debate goes, like I said, it hasn't even really started yet, not at least where you're concerned. Try posting some REAL news articles, THEN feel free to put your little one-sided spin on it. But all I've seen from you is copy-and-paste from someone else's editorial.

...also, it would be nice if we could be civil to each other, but alas...