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Posts posted by Membrane
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It seems to be important to know who wins the debate on who has posted the better facts/knowledge of why the USA went to Iraq...[snip]
"Gentleman" - You gotta be kidding us right? YOU--FAIR?? ha!
I know you want the title of "Master Debater" , but you REALLY think you actually post FACTUAL information on the U.S.?? How can you be, when 100% of every single posting you ever post is 100% knocking the U.S. and you NEVER have anything positive to say. You certainly aren't proving yourself to be open-minded and "fair and balanced" are you?? Why would anyone believe what you have to say when you never deviate from knocking the U.S. in every way possible? From Bush to the "Special Forces" to the Iraq war to--well you get the idea...
Anybody can find an editorial piece that interprets news events in their favor--and that's all you really ever do. That's easy man! You're wimping out pal! Try getting a REAL NEWS STORY--not an editorial or some kind of "rant" page--and then try to prove your side.
Until you start doing that--until then--this "debate" hasn't even started...
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the human civilization will always have war until the end of civilization, for a million year into the past ands it will continue million year into the future, we cannot help ourself and there is no other life form higher than us to teach us what to do.
Right again Chingy. Stephen Hawking, the famous physicist, scientist and theoretician, once said that the only way he could see mankind ridding itself of it's aggressive tendencies would be through genetically altering our species, weeding out the fight or flight response and other aggressive traits. Unfortunately, our aggression is part of us--witness it here on this forum, where so many bash the U.S. for being militaristic--but use aggression and intimidation in expressing their dissatisfaction!
By the way Chingy, I like your crazy little avatar!
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Back to the topic - war turns people into animals as this post testifys - thats why we all dont want war - women and children, being killed and raped - that is what you dont see on television.
And you are a professional soldier right? How many times have you raped and killed women and children? Why not post some of your personal experiences, as a soldier. But no, you have to find an article that's derogatory about the U.S.
Also you say your military will be punished - I actually dont think that will be the case in most cases - in war, "turn the other cheek" is usually the norm and the highest ranking officer on the front line is not going to give up his mates.Well, you're not an American, so you don't know what you're talking about.
I posted this as I though it to be enlightning as to effects to soldiers and victims - it is a lot of pressure for a young guy to handle and makes people very racist/hatefull in all of their actions. The "innocent" bystanders get caught up in the rage and prejudice.Oh yeah RIGHT! Please--give me a break.
Taking a look at your most recent threads you started...
"Halliburton Gets Iraq Oil Contract (is this a surprise?)"
"Bush Support Slumps (A Liar and cant manage finances)"
"Did The USA Invade Iraq For Oil? lets show who the minority is!"
Sure seems like a common thread to me...
And by the way Gentleman, if you are so opposed to war, why did you choose that as a profession??? (and still brag about it)??
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You know "gentleman", it does seem you are going out of your way to constantly post ONLY stuff that makes Americans look bad. I realize you and G-P have a feud going on, but come on--don't take it out on all Americans. Do you want me to start looking stuff up on Australia and posting it here (that's where you're from right)?
I just took a quick look at the titles of every single post you've made here--and they are 100% anti-U.S. So what's going on here?? You're obviously on the offensive here, trying to keep us Americans on the defensive with a constant barage of anti-U.S. threads. I'm sure your country has a few skeletons in the closet. You want to see how much I can dig up and start posting here?
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Yeah chingy, exactly right. They will be brought to justice. And that's the big difference between the U.S. and other countries, especially Saddam's regime. The U.S. OPENLY admits to problems (that's why this stuff can be found on the web) and brings their own renegades to justice (but people HERE don't like to talk about that part).
I wonder what one could Google if they started looking around for "prison guard rapes in Australia" or something like that. Wonder what would come up?
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[snip]
I am a professional when it comes to "altercations", I served in countries where there was no war -none that you heard of anyway. Our Unit used to teach warfare to your US elite - If you want a go at the big prize, that is up to you.
[snip]
Now, now Gentlemen. You wouldn't condone violence as a way to settle disputes now would you?
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My two cents: THIS PISSES ME OFF!
Leave Thailand alone! I like it just the way it is--er--was!
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Write that...exactly, to the Bangkok Post...letters to the Editor. Things are getting critical here...in the real world. It is becoming the Thai hate Thai Party.
Heck, send it to the Nation too. Get the word out Wolf. Things in Thailand are changing far too much and far too fast--and in the wrong direction.
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....y-a-w-n....
Is that the best answer you can give when confronted to facts ?
You know "cynic", some of you guys must think because I've defended some of Bush's decisions, that I'm 100% pro-Bush, but you're wrong. At this point, I don't know if I really care if he's re-elected or not, to be honest. I'm not a democrat or a republican.
But I do get tired of you guys--who don't live here--always grumbling about American politics like you live here and that it affects you personally. Like you can vote here in the U.S. or like what you have to say matters to us over here. It gets boring and tiresome. There's very little creativity here. Nothing else going on except the usual grumbling about the U.S., how stupid GWB is, blah blah blah... Boring....
You live in Thailand? And you have nothing else to do but to discuss this crap all day long? Jesus--get a freakin' life!
Like I said... y-a-w-n....
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....y-a-w-n....
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what a sad world it would be, if this was a possibilty!
What a sad world it is, that you can't appreciate and understand their contributions to peace.
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the word American is between brackets then Iraqi-American in capital letters following by an exclamation mark. Are you sure it's all in my mind ?
Heavy sigh... the reason American is in quotes, is because no real AMERICAN would have ACCEPTED BRIBES FROM SADDAM HUSSEIN.
UNDERSTAND NOW?
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Ummm maybe I didnt read the whole thread but isn't this a fake? I haven't heard anything about this on the Worldnews or BBC. Am I mistaken?
No, it's not a fake. Here's the link to the article again... Go Here. To see the entire list, make sure you go to the bottom of the page to continue the article (it's broken up and spans four pages).
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Is an Iraqi-American less American than an Italian-American, an African-American or an Irish-American ?
Is everybody equal in the US or are some people more equal than others ?
Who said anyone thinks of them as anything less? What are you even talking about? Are you guilty, maybe, because YOU think they are less than anyone else, just because they came from Iraq? ...because no one else is looking down on them, just because they came from Iraq.
No, we are only pointing out that THEY TOOK BRIBES FROM SADDAM HUSSEIN--and if we are "looking down on them", that's why. And it IS interesting that they are originally from Iraq, only because one wonders exactly how the connection to Saddam got started and maybe if they were here to do something else for him, maybe some kind of spy work or something... But anyway, no one mentioned anything RACIST at all--only you--that's all in your own mind, which apparently is desparately trying to come up with something to blame on us?
Nice try, but no cigar!
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Boon Mee
Israelites mate I've just given my age away. I'm getting weary and it will be good to be dead then I can sleep for all eternity.
Well you've given something away. They haven't been called "Israelites" for something like 2,000 years.
Israelites? heh heh Haven't heard 'em being called that since--Sunday school!
"Yea, verily! The Israelites doth vex the Palestinians and the sons of Mohab! Mak mak!"
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0.880 Ammonia in the blot hole moves most of 'em.
Blot hole? Never heard that expression before! Is that anything like a bung hole? ---If so, THAT would be sure to cause any dog to get away fast!
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Thanks p_brownstone, for posting the article. Here is the rest of the article (not posted above) and the complete list of names and countries involved in accepting bribes from Saddam--(pretty shocking, how far up the chain some of them are).
Hmm.... The only two "Americans" listed (Samir Vincent and Shakir Alkhalaji) are two IRAQI-AMERICANS.
Anyway, here is the list:
According to the document, France was the second-largest beneficiary, with tens of millions of barrels awarded to Patrick Maugein, a close political associate and financial backer of French President Jacques Chirac.Maugein, individually and through companies connected to him, received contracts for some 36 million barrels. Chirac's office said it was unaware of Maugein's deals, which Maugein told ABCNEWS are perfectly legal.
The single biggest set of contracts were given to the Russian government and Russian political figures, more than 1.3 billion barrels in all — including 92 million barrels to individual officials in the office of President Vladimir Putin.
Another 1 million barrels were contracted to the Russian ambassador to Baghdad, 137 million barrels of oil were given to the Russian Communist Party, and 5 million barrels were contracted to the Russian Orthodox Church.
Also on the list are the names of prominent journalists, two Iraqi-Americans, and a French priest who organized a meeting between the pope and Tariq Aziz, Saddam's deputy prime minister.
The following are the names of some of those who, according to the document, received Iraqi oil contracts (amounts are in millions of barrels of oil):
Russia
The Companies of the Russian Communist Party: 137 million
The Companies of the Liberal Democratic Party: 79.8 million
The Russian Committee for Solidarity with Iraq: 6.5 million and 12.5 million (2 separate contracts)
Head of the Russian Presidential Cabinet: 90 million
The Russian Orthodox Church: 5 million
France
Charles Pasqua, former minister of interior: 12 million
Trafigura (Patrick Maugein), businessman: 25 million
Ibex: 47.2 million
Bernard Merimee, former French ambassador to the United Nations: 3 million
Michel Grimard, founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club: 17.1 million
Syria
Firas Mostafa Tlass, son of Syria's defense minister: 6 million
Turkey
Zeynel Abidin Erdem: more than 27 million
Lotfy Doghan: more than 11 million
Indonesia
Megawati Sukarnoputri: 11 million
Spain
Ali Ballout, Lebanese journalist: 8.8 million
Yugoslavia
The Socialist Party: 22 million
Kostunica's Party: 6 million
Canada
Arthur Millholland, president and CEO of Oilexco: 9.5 million
Italy
Father Benjamin, a French Catholic priest who arranged a meeting between the pope and Tariq Aziz: 4.5 million
Roberto Frimigoni: 24.5 million
United States
Samir Vincent: 7 million
Shakir Alkhalaji: 10.5 million
United Kingdom
George Galloway, member of Parliament: 19 million
Mujaheddin Khalq: 36.5 million
South Africa
Tokyo Saxwale: 4 million
Jordan
Shaker bin Zaid: 6.5 million
The Jordanian Ministry of Energy: 5 million
Fawaz Zureikat: 6 million
Toujan Al Faisal, former member of Parliament: 3 million
Lebanon
The son of President Lahoud: 5.5 million
Egypt
Khaled Abdel Nasser: 16.5 million
Emad Al Galda, businessman and Parliament member: 14 million
Palestinian Territories
The Palestinian Liberation Organization: 4 million
Abu Al Abbas: 11.5 million
Qatar
Hamad bin Ali Al Thany: 14 million
Libya
Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem: 1 million
Chad
Foreign minister of Chad: 3 million
Brazil
The October 8th Movement: 4.5 million
Myanmar (Burma)
The minister of the Forests of Myanmar: 5 million
Ukraine
The Social Democratic Party: 8.5 million
The Communist Party: 6 million
The Socialist Party: 2 million
The FTD oil company: 2 million
Now... with that much bribery, is it any wonder there was a "world-wide movement" to try to stop the U.S. from going in and removing Saddam? Is it any wonder they have tried to use a clever (but weak) argument that the U.S. is trying to steal all the oil? What utter nonsense! But some people are just gullible enough to believe it--either that, or they are already biased against the U.S. Plus, they ignore the fact that the U.S. has spent it's own blood and billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq's hospitals, schools, etc. Also keeping their eyes and ears closed to the fact, as SoCal pointed out, that Iraq's oil is controlled by their state agency, and sold on the world market.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If the U.S. wanted to take the oil, we just would have. We wouldn't have bothered to rebuild schools, hospitals, etc. And we certainly would NOT have allowed the oil to be put up for sale on the world market!
How much clearer can that be?
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Get a toy squirt gun, fill it with ammonia (or bleach, but ammonia works better). Keep it in your pocket and when the cute little doggie comes up, blast the f##ker in the face! GUARANTEED!
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Well ONE GUY is happy, for sure!
(Thanks Bronco)!
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no Israelies were killed and no one turned up for work at the "Israel Embassy" - I am not sure which Israel "department" - did anyone else hear this?
It is a major point, I think - anyone shed more light?
Oh yeah--I heard that too!
..and I also heard that NO JEWS were killed in Nazi Germany. It was all faked by the U.S.--and JEWS!! Have you ever seen the old movie reels showing piles of dead bodies being bulldozed into huge open graves? Well, that's all just special effects, created by Hollywood and paid for by the CIA and a bunch of Jews!!
..also, the Titanic didn't really go down. It was all FAKED by Jews and Christians, in order to get the insurance pay outs! and they were trying to make the Palestinians look bad!
..and on top of that, the U.S. never went to the moon! It's actually made of green cheese, made by--more Christians and JEWS! It's a special secret recipe created by Noah--and Jesus actually wrote all about it in the Torah.
Yep.. it's all on the Internet, yep. I'm sure I can find the websites that talk about it, but I gotta smoke another bowl first... now where did Gentleman put that bong??
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You're pretty funny when you get angry, singa-trez!
Sure, so the European "supported" Saddam because they would receive a few barrels of Oil ... but the US did not invade Iraq for it ? ... maybe you too believe in the more moral, more white, more fair country!It's funny when you are talking about the Europeans only wanting a "few barrels of oil", but when you talk about the Americans, you make it sound like we want it all. NOWHERE NEAR THE TRUTH. --But of course, you are so insecure, biggoted and narrow-mindedly prejudiced against the west, you are going to believe whatever you want anyway--and that's always going to include a seething hatred of anything American.
Interesting to note that Lybia has or is about to be cleared from the list of country supporting terrorism, interesting don't you think so ? Used to blow up passenger planes ... ah, that's ok ... we will forgive you ... because we need to !It's funny that you apparently can't stand a rogue nation to try to make ammends with the U.S. and to change her ways. Your smug and sarcastic tone (above) only masks an utter ignorance of how things in the world work (maybe you need a 101 on world politics, eh singa)?
If you had even glanced at the web site you quoted in your post, you would have read that Libya has decided to "dismantle its weapons of mass destruction and to allow United Nations inspectors into the country, as well as its accepting responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am 103 and agreeing to pay $2.7 billion in compensation to the victims’ families". You will probably disagree, but to me, that sounds like a pretty good start to ammending her ways, don't you? That's the whole point with working with countries like Libya, Iran, or Iraq--we want them to cooperate with us and to stop their savage terrorist activities. Then we can peacefully engage in free trade between our nations: we can buy their oil, and they can buy our technology, goods and services. Everybody wins, everybody is happy.
Policy ContradictionsThe greater need for oil in the future is at odds with current sanctions on oil exporters Libya, Iraq, and Iran.
So what? Do you need me to explain this to you? It's a clear business-like assessment of the situation in the world But if I have to s-p-e-l-l it out for you: all that is stating is that "it's too bad we have had to place sanctions on these extremist, terrorist-loving, antagonistic governments, because they have the ability to control energy reserves that affect the U.S. and the entire world". (It's funny how you try to twist and infer points that aren't there).
Singa, maybe you need a 101 on world politics.. allow me to quote from SoCal's recent post, (with the words that you need to pay attention to, made real big and bold, so you can't miss the point)!
No disrespect, but get it through your thick head.Iraq's oil is controlled by their state agency, and sold on the world market.
The American people have picked up a $100 billion dollar price tag.
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
Probably NOT, but please continue to amuse us with your silly little postings anyway!
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Thank you Membrane for havind started this thread. But as you haven' read the original article published in the Iraqi newspaper AL MADA,
[snip]
Well Cynic, you didn't provide a link either, so how can I tell if you're not just making this up?? Provide a link to the actual article--that way we can all see for ourselves what you are talking about and verify it!
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Now the truth comes out--old Saddam bribed 46 individuals, companies and organizations around the world to save his stinking hide!
From: washingtontimes.com:
Iraqi govt. papers: Saddam bribed ChiracBAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 28 (UPI) -- Documents from Saddam Hussein's oil ministry reveal he used oil to bribe top French officials into opposing the imminent U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.
The oil ministry papers, described by the independent Baghdad newspaper al-Mada, are apparently authentic and will become the basis of an official investigation by the new Iraqi Governing Council, the Independent reported Wednesday.
"I think the list is true," Naseer Chaderji, a governing council member, said. "I will demand an investigation. These people must be prosecuted."
Such evidence would undermine the French position before the war when President Jacques Chirac sought to couch his opposition to the invasion on a moral high ground.
A senior Bush administration official said Washington was aware of the reports but refused further comment.
French diplomats have dismissed any suggestion their foreign policy was influenced by payments from Saddam, but some European diplomats have long suspected France's steadfast opposition to the war was less moral than monetary.
"Oil runs thicker than blood," is how one former ambassador put his suspicions about the French motives for opposing action against Saddam.
Al-Mada's list cites a total of 46 individuals, companies and organizations inside and outside Iraq as receiving Saddam's oil bribes, including officials in
Egypt,
Jordan,
Syria,
the United Arab Emirates,
Turkey,
Sudan,
China,
Austria and
France,
as well as the Russian Orthodox Church,
the Russian Communist Party,
India's Congress Party and the
Palestine Liberation Organization.
So maybe that starts to explains how (apparently) "the whole world" was against the U.S. going into Iraq--and how the truth has been perverted and warped to the common lie that a lot of people now believe--the the U.S. went in to get the oil. (In case you're wondering, no the U.S. did not).
Just goes to show how rotten politics really is--and how gullible people can be!
George Bush Interview
in ASEAN NOW Community Pub
Posted
Yeah, he did very well. No, I don't agree with everything he says, but he did very well. Here's a transcript of the entire show: