butterisbetter

2. Given your name, if you are connected to a baking operation that uses lots of butter, don't you have an undeclared vested interest here? Most of the authorities on food and nutrition will also point out that butter is bad for the body.

Debaters often dream about moments like this when their opponent serves them up something big and slow to swat out of the ballpark. So I want to thank you. If Better is Better were a kingdom, I don't know whether I would make you a knight or a court jester. (Come to think of it, I do know).

The thing is, you do know who we are. Not only by our name but by the fact that we advertise here. So our interests are out there for all to see. We're not hiding anything. But we don't have a clue as to who you are. Until you prove otherwise, I don't think it's unfair for the many of us whose character you have impugned in various postings to assume that your comments here and elsewhere are served by your own corrupt self interest. And once again, thanks. With opponents like you, who needs allies?

Thank you for all your help, i will be sure to check out the places you mentioned. I checked out Somerville as well, although they had the containers and tables, their table came with a fridge at the bottom.

butterisbetter - do you by any chance have the phone number of the place you mentioned?

eyecatcher - is Canal Road known by another name? i was able to locate Suthep road on Google maps but not Canal Road.

Sorry, i have not been here long so still finding my way around

Sorry, I don't have their phone number. Somerville does have good quality stuff, but it tends to be very pricey.

i know a lot of farang teachers in chiang mai working for different schools and from what they tell me your child would get a better education in mud hut

in the Congo but least you know your child will never fail one single exam and you can call them in class when ever you want with out them being told off

heaven forbid they might actually learn something

The only mud here is the stuff you're flinging. Our child goes to Lanna which is certified by Cambridge International under the British system. I monitor what she does and her math and english skills are, I am ashamed to say, well in advance of mine at her age. And I was no slouch in school. And she is not alone. She's got lots of competition. And for better or worse, these kids do like to compete academically. Which may or may not be a good things, but it does mean the children are academically engaged. And I know kids who go to CMIS and Grace, and their standards are stringent, too.

You "suppose they're (the stats) right"? That's big of you. There is nothing to suppose. They are facts. Sources for them are given and can be checked. And how are the statistics I presented "out of context"? They show the vast number of fast food outlets in Thailand (in contradiction to other posters here claiming there are very few of them). You seem to think that Thais only go to "Thai markets" by which you seem to mean fresh markets. Those are not growing but going out of fashion; the "growth industry" in Thailand (as shown by one of the statements and facts above) is in the fast food sector.

Don't believe me? Suggestion: go to either of the two big shopping malls in the city and see how many Thais are there. Lots. Boatloads of them eating in the fast food outlets which are on all floors of all of these shopping centers. You'll also be able to spot the "wide bodies" that most of those addicted to the fast food places have (farangs and Thais).

You need to open your eyes (in addition to getting that spell checker fixed). The overwhelming weight of medical/nutritional opinion (pardon the pun) is that such food is very bad for the waistline and for one's overall health. It is beyond dispute by any but lunatics, climate denier types, those who think Darwin was wrong and the bible is right, those convinced Elvis is still alive and living on a desert island, advocates of the world ending on December 21 because the Mayan calendar, they claims, proves this etc.

Unfortunately the stats are incomplete. What is needed is what percentage of the total Thai diet comes from Western style fast food. Nothing you've cited makes any reference to that. In addition, even if Thais were not to east Western style fast food, does that mean they would stop or reduce their consumption of sugar and fatty foods? I think a reasonable alternative explanation is that as Thai income rises, they will eat less rice and more sugary and fatty foods. Human beings seem designed to crave that stuff.

Personal sightings of large number of large thais eating junk food at mini malls does not qualify as serious data. None of the statistics you've cited have anything to say about the growth decline of non western food. None of the statistics you've cited establish whether Thais are eating western junk food in place of healthful thai food or in place of Thai junk food. Words like "vast" may sound impressive, but they are subjective and not useful in establishing perspective.

And once again you indulge in ad hominem attacks by comparing people who question your arguments to anti Darwinists etc. (Also setting up a straw man) No one is saying that fatty foods are good for you. Just questioning a)whether it makes a difference if Thais eat Western style junk food or thai style junk food and b: if it's the fault of western fast food franchises that Thais are eating more junk food.

Even if your arguments were a lot stronger than they, in fact, are, what useful purpose do these ad hominem attacks serve? Why is it so difficult for you to adhere to rational discourse?

Yok or Bakersmart doesn't have anything like the stainless steel items you requested on display. They might be able to order it for you. An alternative would be to go to a stainelss steel fabricator. We use one on Charoen Muang to make sinks and stainless steel work tables. They did a great job. Here are their GPS coordinates: 18.787835,99.006511

Here are some more facts (not wrong impressions) about fast food in Thailand:

1. "By the end of 2009, Mister Donut operated more than 200 outlets covering the entire country and continues to expand more outlets in the future."

2. "Currently, KFC holds the biggest share in the fast food restaurant chain’s market in Thailand. It can be said that these days, KFC has become a part of Thai people’s everyday life..."

3. Auntie Annes has more than 85 outlets in Thailand.

Source for above: http://www.crg.co.th/cooperate/en/brand/index.html

AND:

4. "CP All continues to lead chained fast food sales in Thailand, with 7-Eleven accounting for 53% of value sales in 2010. The company has expanded aggressively, opening an average of 450 stores per year, and aims to reach 7,000 stores by 2013..."

5. "Fast food (in Thailand) will continue to record healthy growth over the forecast period, with the area having a projected forecast period constant value CAGR of 8%. Leading chained players will likely engage in aggressive outlet expansion, price promotions, advertising, CRM campaigns, menu innovations and additional services. Small chained stores and independent stores will struggle to compete as strong branding is a key factor for consumers when choosing fast food products."

Source for above: http://www.euromonitor.com/fast-food-in-thailand/report

AND:

AND:

A&W PLANS 100 OUTLETS IN 4 YEARS

KUB Malaysia Berhad, the licensee of A&W fast-food restaurants in Thailand and Malaysia, is ramping up its business in this country by spending one billion baht to reach 100 outlets.

A&W has been present in Thailand since 1983. KUB has had the franchise for the past 10 years.

Haniza Ros Nasaruddin, the company's general manager for business development, said it would add another 59 A&W restaurants to the existing 41 now in Thailand by 2015. Annual turnover is forecast to triple to one billion baht by the same year.

As I recall, the question at hand is whether the growing problem of obesity in Thailand, is due in whole, or in part, to the consumption of Western fast food. Nothing you have cited has established any proof of this. It may well be that Western fast food outlets are largely responsible for this problem. Most likely there are multiple causes for this problem all relating to the changing way Thais now live. But I don't have any proof of that. It's just a notion of mine. I know the difference between notions and facts. Some others seem to have a problem with making this distinction.

The prejudice against salt consumption has its roots in a priori reasoning. Since salt would draw more water into the blood stream there would be higher blood pressure and this would damage the kidneys. But it was never clinically proven.

There is a lot of research out there on this. An article in Scientific American magazine does a good job of explaining it.

This week a meta-analysis of seven studies involving a total of 6,250 subjects in the American Journal of Hypertension found no strong evidence that cutting salt intake reduces the risk for heart attacks, strokes or death in people with normal or high blood pressure.

http://www.scientifi...the-war-on-salt

You are misleading people again.

1. The study you present as scientific fact is an outlier. Almost every major medical group worldwide advises exactly the opposite: cut salt intake. The results are overwhelming (the same kind of preponderance of the evidence that exists for smoking being bad for your health). As with cigarettes, there were studies also claiming they were not harmful (it turned out most were sponsored by the tobacco companies). Please let us know who sponsored these studies you cite.

2. Don't believe this nonsense. Do a search on Google and you'll find out what I mean.

3. The same poster (on another thread) is a guy claiming that Thais don't eat fast food and that fast food is not the real cause of Thais getting fatter! He's living in another world.

A careful reader will notice a multiplicity of dubious statements in thevicar's paragraph #1. First off, the vicar asserts that UG cites a study which is an outlier. No, UG cites several studies. And these are meta-analyses of other research. Lots and lots of other studies. Which means that a large number of studies were combined to increase the statistical significance of the results. The same sort of thing that Nate Silver did for polling in the latest U.S. election. Lots of people questioned his approach, too.

The vicar also asserts that the results are overwhelmingly in favor of sodium playing a significant role in hypertension, but offers no proof of this.

As for the request of proof of who sponsored the studies. UG is citing work from the Journal of Hypertension and an article from Scientific American. Both highly reputable journals. It's very doubtful that they would be citing corrupt studies sponsored by interested parties. After all, their reputation is on the line. Rather it is incumbent upon thevicar to prove the unlikely assertion that these studies are somehow corrupt.

The vicar also pulls a switch. Against the studies cited by UG, he asserts that almost every major medical group supports his position. No one is disputing that. The question is on the basis of what overwhelming evidence?

So far, thevicar has cited none. Instead he's asserted that there's an overwhelming amount out there. Assertion is not proof.

In paragraph #2 thevicar characterizes the evidence that UG provides as "nonsense." Denigration is proof of what exactly? The thevicar advises readers to search the internet. Search for what, precisely? Why doesn't thevicar take it upon himself to do that and provide us with the evidence? Perhaps because it isn't really there?

In paragraph #3 thevicar cites the fact that UG questions how many Western fast food outlets there are in Thailand. What has this to do with anything? If UG were to post something in support of the theory of relativity, should we discount the theory of relativity because of UG's views on the preponderance of Western fast food in Thailand. I think thevicar's ad hominem attack on UG says something significant about thevicar, and nothing at all significant about the issue at hand.

How about a walk thru a normal Thai market. They fry just about everything in unstable oils.

Fried rice, fried noodles, fried bananas, fried fish, chicken, pork etc.

Sugary drinks.

Endless carbs

KFC would sell organic salad and wheatgrass shots if consumers wanted it.

Meanwhile the health food stores are nearly deserted dust covered ghost towns. To be fair though a lot of health food stores are infected with the counterproductive eat more plant carb mentality. Really behind the health curve.

"Normal Thai markets" are also full of healthy fresh fruit and vegetables. And how many fruit stands have you probably walked by in Thailand where fresh fruit is sold in small plastic bags for a cheap price? Contrast that with the West where bakeries are far more prevalent (I can recall that bakeries in Thailand were not very plentiful 22 years ago when I came here; now they are everywhere). I completely agree with you about the unhealthy nature of the products fried in what is most likely high saturated fats (probably palm oil) which have been used again and again. But the traditional Thai diet was a very healthy one compared to the food on offer at fast food outlets in which the food is also cooked in unhealthy fats and also has very high sugar/salt levels. It is a recipe for obesity and diabetes and heart problems.

The Thai traditional diet has been completely upset by the introduction and wonderful marketing of the Western fast food chains, especially amongst young people who are most susceptible to Western marketing techniques. There is a kind of cultural imperialism at work in food too. Ask any cook, and they will tell you that sweeter and saltier foods sell better than others. The big western fast food corporations know that (Pepsi is especially sweet in Thailand) and take advantage of it. I've actually had french fries at McDonald's outlets in Thailand that are so salt laden that I could not eat them; they do that intentionally so customers buy more drinks. I also lived in Vietnam (in HCMC which is much bigger than Hanoi); there were not nearly as many western fast food outlets there as in Thailand. You can see by the numbers I provided for Thailand that the fast food outlets have completely riddled Thailand. Maybe only Singapore in SEAsia has as many per capita and the children there too have grown not only fat but obese. The Singaporean military has to have special training for many of the new recruits who are mostly overweight. Again, there is a direct and strong correlation with the intro of fast food into these cultures and the growth of obesity and severe health problems that are directly related like heart problems, hypertension and diabetes. This is also what is behind the epidemic of obesity and diabetes type 2 in the West.

Again, this is just an assertion. As I pointed out in my previous post, there could be multiple reasons why obesity is a growing problem in Thailand. Singling out just one cause is a clear case of perceptual set where you see what you are prepared to see and ignore what doesn't jibe with your preconceptions. The same thing happened with hypertension which for over a century has been blamed on excessive salt consumption but without any strong proof. It appears that that belief has been pretty thoroughly debunked. It's okay to have beliefs, but don't confuse them with facts.

Dried small white beans are available here in chiang mai at Rim Ping and probably Tesco lotus. I don't know where you live. In Bangkok I suspect that Villa will carry them.

Schmidt's carries Marzipan and Almond Paste.

OK thanks,

just read a recipe that recommends grating cold butter into the flour, but the fork method also looks good.

I made an apple pie on Sunday, to much sugar but apart from that not bad for my first try.

If you freeze the butter, it will work even better. There is also a hand held tool called a pastry blender which is basically 5 parallel blades attached to a handle. That's a lot easier than the fork method.

Most Thais don't eat much Western fast food, but many Thais are becoming overweight and many Thais are getting diabetes. A lot of Thai food is carbs fried in fat with added sugar. Blaming this phenomenon on the West is a politically correct myth.

Dead wrong on so many counts! If the Thais "don't eat much Western fast food" who are all those Thais I've seen in McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken (far more popular in Thailand than in most western countries), Swenson's etc.? Impersonators? Give us all a break. All you have to do is stroll over to the closest KFC and see who's eating there. I'd venture to say that 80% or more of their customers are Thais, especially young ones. If I had a baht for every Thai I saw eating at McDonalds, KFC, or for every young fat Thai kid I saw coming out slurping on a cone from Dairy Queen or Swenson's, I'd be richer than Warren Buffett. Or talk to Thais about the problem of fat children, in particular, and you will find they almost always say it never was like that in the past and it is because these children are addicted to fat, Western foods.

Thai food has ALWAYS had sugar added to many dishes (stir fry; curry etc.) and the "carbs" you're complaining about come only from rice, a staple, because most everything else in Thai food is vegetable or meat. Thai food is pretty much unchanged over the years so it is not something new: hence, the timing does not explain the rise in the past two decades of fat Thais or fit in with your explanation at all. Fast food does and it is the answer. Have a look at the fast food stores and see how many fat Thai people, especially young ones, are hooked on this junk food. It is addictive! Vietnam, by way of contrast, has far fewer western style fast food places and they are not as popular as fast food is in Thailand (to some extent because the Viets cannot afford, by and large, the high prices of the fast food chains). For many years, McDonald's and other such chains (aside from KFC) were forbidden in Vietnam (I'm not sure if they are allowed even now).

While it’s true that the KFCs and the McDonalds are crowded with Thai people, there aren’t that many outlets in Thailand and most of them are where people with money would go. I suspect that for most Thais – given their income – KFC and McDonald’s are for special occasions only.

There could be lots of other reasons Thai kids are getting heavier . Maybe they are less active than before. The internet, video and mobile phone games keep them engrossed and internet.

Or it may be that Thais are just eading more sedentary lives.

While it’s true that Thai food always had lots of sugar and calories, people back then probably ate a lot more rice and a lot less of the main courses.

Any and all of these examples could just be a case of confirmation bias. We tend to see what will confirm our prejudices.

What is needed are large scale longitudinal studies. As is now the case with studies on the effects of sodium consumption on mortality. As UG showed in his citation of an article from Scientific American, the notion that salt causes hypertension is, at best, highly oversimplified. The connection, if there is any, is a weak one. But that took lots of studies to establish.

I have watched youtube videos of this and it does not make sense unless you are using a food blender,

how do you turn 1cm cubes of butter and flour and into something that looks like breadcrumbs, at the same time keeping everything cold.

Obviously it can be done but I don't understand the process.

My grandmother would bake apple pie back in the day when refrigerators were unheard of so there has to be some practical solution to making decent apple pie.

Actually you can do it with your fingers. Just use your fingertips. And if you put the flour and the mixing bowl in the freezer beforehand that helps too. If the butter starts to get too soft, just put the mixture back in the refrigerator for 15 minutes and then continue.

Also available at Union Science. 45 baht per kilo

The butter definitely should not melt! But it should be blended with the flour. How you blend it depends on the type of crust you are making. If an english short crust, then it should be blended into buttery crumbs. If a French pate brisee, then you will want to stop when the butter pieces are pea-sized. It's best to chill the flour before you make the crust. And use ice water. If you've got air conditioning in the room, turn that on too.

I'm curious about more specific feedback about the parking situation. Was there not enough parking? Was it confusing about where to park? This seems like something we can work on for the future.

The parking situation was far better than it used to be at the Citylife venue. This is not Citylife's fault. It's just that they have very limited parking space and much less space in general. It probably would have been useful to have one steward out front at the entrance explaining to vendors where they should go.

But the individual man I referred to was the man who developed and marketed (and presumably drank a lot of) V-8. I think that is relevant although I would agree with you that it might not be statistically significant, a claim I never made to begin with. The overwhelming weight of medical studies on sodium (which is salt) is that high levels of it are very harmful to the body. And the fate of the V-8 developer (dead at 52 of a massive heart attack) falls into that statical projection rather well.

Does this make any kind of sense at all? It seems meaningless to me. How can something be relevant but not statistically significant? It's only relevant if it is statistically significant. Otherwise it's just noise. This is clearly a case of what statisticians calls confirmation bias and what the rest of us might call cherry picking. And as for the overwhelming weight of medical studies on sodium being that high levels of it are very harmful to the body, this is simply and flatly untrue.

The prejudice against salt consumption has its roots in a priori reasoning. Since salt would draw more water into the blood stream there would be higher blood pressure and this would damage the kidneys. But it was never clinically proven.

Anyway here are 2 links. One is to an article in the Oxford International Journal of Epidemiology

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/2/311.full

and the other, to a rather more approachable article by a science writer in the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?pagewanted=all.

I have often wondered about the conventional wisdom on salt. A recent study which disputes the claim that salt is bad for you appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in May 2011. 3,681 healthy European men and women aged 60 or younger were followed for about 8 years. Those that consumed higher than average amounts of sodium did not experience increased risk for hypertension, stroke, or heart attack. Dr. Jan Staessen MD, author of the study, said that the study’s findings "do not support the current recommendations of a generalized and indiscriminate reduction of sodium intake at the population level.”

Also, Australian studies have shown that those individuals with Type 1 or Type 2 Diabetes actually die in larger numbers when following a salt restricted diet, but diabetics are usually advised to severely restrict their salt intake even though another 2010 study from Harvard University showed that participants developed insulin resistance when put on a salt restricted diet and insulin resistance is a condition that indicates a strong likelihood for the development of Type 2 Diabetes.

From the same man quoting, on a different thread, a Vietnamese government official in charge of promoting their catfish industry (and co-owner of the larges such company in Vietnam) on the safety of the Vietnamese catfish industry. Take it for what it's worth.

The Journal of the American Medical Association has pretty good reputation and they don't own any salt mines. Most rational people will not just dismiss an eight year study of 3,681 patients.

One of the 2 parties quoted above uses the premature death of one man as a statistically significant proof but discounts studies that number thousands and thousands of people. John Allen Paulos, a mathematician coined the use of "innumerate" to mean the mathematical equivalent of "illiterate". I will leave it to others to decide to which of these 2 parties it ought to apply.

I checked out the sodium content for V-8 juice: it is between 25-30%! That's a killer (sodium=salt). Make your own.

What is the source of that information?

25-30% of what?

Of 100%. And sodium is a metal that bursts into flame when it contacts water.

This may be of interest to anyone who thinks critically - http://www.stat.berk...~census/573.pdf

That figure (25-30%) is a percentage of the amount of sodium recommended per day. In other words, that one can of V8 juice gives you almost 1/3 of your recommended daily total of sodium!

Here's some info on V8 Juice and its high sodium content:

"We found the ingredients elsewhere, and reading it, one can see that, true, all the juice is from vegetables, but there are added ingredients. Here’s the list:

Tomato Juice From Concentrate (Water, Tomato Concentrate), Reconstituted Vegetable Juice Blend (Water and Concentrated Juices of Carrots, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach), Salt, Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid), Flavoring, Citric Acid.

The number 1 addition is water! Notice that V8 is from concentrate. This means that the veggies were at one point juiced, but for logistical purposes, the water content was removed. (Same thing happens with orange juice). So you’re not getting freshly juiced vegetables. For all we know the veggies have been stored in refrigerated vats as concentrate for months.

Interesting addition to the list are the salt, vitamin C, and flavorings. A single glass of V8 contains 480mg of sodium, or 20% (!!!) of the daily maximum. Compare to 135mg for a small McDonald’s French Fries, or 290mg for a medium.

Why so much salt you ask? Because it tastes good. There’s a low sodium option with only 140mg, and after you taste it, you’ll understand. But could there be a middle ground, or some attempt to slowly reduce the salt content over time?

The added vitamin C is worth mentioning too. Why would a vitamin rich juice need any additions? Well, vitamin C is one of the mot volatile micronutrients, in a sense that it easily and quickly “evaporates” from fruits and vegetables the moment they are exposed to oxygen. So food processors simply add more. V8 adds a lot more – it contains 120% of the daily value.

The added flavorings are always a riddle. They are trade secrets, and are usually crafted to make a product smell and taste better. So is V8′s great taste to be attributed to the natural veggies, or some laboratory in New Jersey? Most likely a mix of both.

...

As for the other marketing claims – shame on the American Heart Association for endorsing this product. High sodium intake leads to heart problems, and the AHA is actively encouraging people to reduce their consumption. From the AHA website:

From the AHA website:

High-sodium diets are linked to an increase in blood pressure and a higher risk for heart disease and stroke. Reducing the amount of sodium you consume can help lower high blood pressure or prevent it from developing in the first place. Keeping your blood pressure at healthy levels is important, because high blood pressure can lead to heart attacks or stroke.

The American Heart Association recommends that you choose and prepare foods with little or no salt to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease. Aim to eat less than 1,500 mg of sodium per day.

So why in the world would the AHA recommend a product that with once glass reached a third of the daily maximum? (hint: Campbell’s, the owner of V8 brand, pays the AHA a hefty sum for each product endorsed.)

As for the “Essential Antioxidants” blurb, it has absolutely no meaning, no way to be verified, and unfortunately misguides shoppers.

Bottom line: V8 may not as bad as soda, but is a far cry from a daily, nurturing habit. The high sodium content is very worrying, and from a veggie perspective, you are better off consuming the real deal, fiber and other fresh nutrients included."

SOURCE: http://blog.fooducat...-a-health-scam/

Like I said in an earlier post, make your own juice; it's healthier and tastier.

As an aside, the developer of V8 juice, W. Peacock, died at what age? He made it to the ripe old age of....52! Died of a massive heart attack. That's what big doses of sodium does to the heart.

Actually, the influence of dietary sodium on blood pressure is generally ranges from weak to non-existent. It's just longstanding and widespread belief in the medical community based basically on the notion that "it stands to reason". Here's a link summarizing the various studies. http://www.jacn.org/content/25/suppl_3/240S.full

2) it was too commercial; too many businesses (especially hotels and restaurants) selling overpriced food and drink and there just "flying their flags". I saw a wine tasting for about B 240; really? Come on, who's going to pay that at a casual, outdoor event like this? How about a community/organization run BBQ (chicken, burgers, pork, sausages) that offers good food & drink at sane prices? That would go over big, in my opinion. Maybe the restaurants and hotels should consider giving out some free samples of their food rather than charging B 100 or more for small servings. There was a local monthly magazine there (maybe one of the sponsors) selling yearly subscriptions to their tourist magazine which is given away for free! I noted that they had no customers.

I guess I was at a different event. My stand was located in the food section. Our prices aside, the food being charged by other vendors were extraordinarily low. One place was selling a plate of ribs for 50 baht. Bratwurst were being sold for 50 baht. Shan salads were priced at 20 baht for 1 and 30 for two. And they were delicious. From Freebird Cafe. And lots of other vendors selling cheaply,

too.

Probably the cheapest source of pure non-iodized salt would be a chemical supply house such as Union Science on Doi Suthep Rd. I think I paid 15 baht for reagent grade sodium chloride.

Also, most likely you know this but it's safest to use distilled water. You can also boil tap water. But don't ever use tap water straight from the tap. If the water has amoebas in it, they can cross over into your brain. Which invasion is usually fatal.

If you go to maps.google.com and enter "Thipanet Mueang Chiang Mai Chiang Mai Thailand" you'll see exactly where Thipanet market is.

I found a sugar-free soy milk at Rimping Mee Chok today. I'm assuming that it will be at the other branches as well. It's called V-Soy but that English name only appears on the Back. On the front it's วี-ซอย

On the front does say something in prominent English about being Calcium fortified.

We have lots of people, including celiacs, who like our gluten free bread. I have to say I was dubious about it, the first time we made it. But I was pleasantly surprised. It tastes like a mixed whole grain/white bread.

But I should point out we make it at our bakery, which uses wheat flour, lots and lots of wheat flour. so the possibility of cross contamination is there.

We also make a gluten free pancake mix and at the restaurant offer 100% buckwheat flour pancakes, that are also gluten free.

We also make flourless chocolate cake, dacqoise and some gluten free cookies. However, they are not always on offer so it's best to check in advance.