DamianMavis

Actually dear it is WOMAN not man, a women who lived in thailand for many years & who had a few different thai bf before meeting my thai husband. Dont' presume that other people hold the same ridiculous standards to women or western women that you do. Plenty of thai women change bf's & normal thai & non thai people do not view them as deserving any recriminations so this women wouldn't be viewed as a trouble maker or askign for trouble for having 2 (reported) thai bf's either.

Congratulation for that masterpiece !

What would you have done if the first one wouldn't like you quit him, or did he quit you?

Just curious.

maxi

You don't even realise how sexist you are do you? You obviously come from a culture where it is considered "slutty" or immoral for a woman to have more than one boyfriend in her life right?

Damian

Sorry I have no idea....

Damian

EXACTAMUNDO Arkady!

Damian

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

LOL oh man that is "rich." Amazing Thailand.

Am I right in thinking she would have to remain in the Kingdom until her case comes up if she is sued by the Police?

If charged with assaulting a policeman, she could be kept on remand without bail. The police usually argue there is a high risk of a foreigner absconding. Best case would be bail and forfeiture of passport which is most likely as even Canada might cut up rough, if their citizen was jailed for being a victim of attempted murder.

So if the Police do want to sweep this whole mess under the carpet as quickly as possible it wouldn't be in their best interests to charge her with anything.

Its not only a good scare tactic (do not come after us or we will come after you) it also clouds the issue and takes the blame away from the officer and puts it on the vicitm. It's the smartest thing they could do to achieve their goal of complete blamelessness on the officers part. He will not be punished in any way, they have done this before and will use the same tactics again and again because it works.

Damian

So answer this question: Was almost being killed and having been severely wounded, and the other falang was killed, not punishment enough? That you would be happy they would add jail time or some other punishment seems outrageous.

Also, there is no proof she is lying yet, not to mention the fact that the encounters she had previously in her words hardly seem like she was out looking for trouble, more like trying to defend her boyfriend.... it was still stupid but its not like shes out picking fights with people. There are far worse falangs in Thailand than her, and lots of them.

Damian

Damian,

Do you always answere a question with a question? Nice diversionary tactic!

I'll not engage in a debate with you. I have my opinion and you have yours. On this matter never the twain shall meet.

Sorry I honestly didnt think it was a real question. The answer is obvious like another poster said recently. Someone DIED and the other was almos killed too..... over what you think of as undesirable behaviour, that is why I defend her, I defend her right to be annoying without fear of death. I keep trying to ask you if the death penalty is a suitable punishment for that but you wont answer.

Damian

So answer this question: Was almost being killed and having been severely wounded, and the other falang was killed, not punishment enough? That you would be happy they would add jail time or some other punishment seems outrageous.

Also, there is no proof she is lying yet, not to mention the fact that the encounters she had previously in her words hardly seem like she was out looking for trouble, more like trying to defend her boyfriend.... it was still stupid but its not like shes out picking fights with people. There are far worse falangs in Thailand than her, and lots of them.

Damian

Damien

Were you in the movie Kingmaker by any chance. I've got some photos of us dressed as Portuguese soldiers.

A tai kwon do teacher?...possibly Langsuan soi.

I have a picture from Kingmaker perched on my television, it was my very first movie job so I remember it fondly (I was an extra and played about 6 different characters heh, crappy food, really low pay, hard working conditions most days out in the sun with no protection all day... and I LOVED IT).... if you can, pm me if you would be willing to send me any nice photos by email.

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

No Damian I was NOT being sarcastic, was serious. Why should I change my avatar? I like it!

Why so harsh? Almost shot to death wasnt punishment enough for whatever perceived disrespectful behaviour on her part? I guess she should have been put to death like her best friend? Would that have been a suitable punishment for possibly being an annoying falang?

Damian

According to Thai TV today Pai Police are considering sueing the girl for resisting arrest!

Nice symmetry.

GREAT NEWS!!

Was wondering when the police would charge her with, disorderly conduct, assault,resisting arrest, hope they throw the book at her. With any luck she'll be deported PNG never to return.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic..... you might want to change your avatar so as not to be confused with FarangPrince

Damian

Well, now I have serious problems with Dechawiwit's statement during the reenactment of the crime. He fired three shots at the Canadians while he was falling down? Three shots that hit the victims in the "five ring"? Are you kidding me? I can't believe he was stupid enough to make that statement. He should have stuck to his original story that he was struggling with Del Pinto over control of the gun and that it went off accidentally. But here is the problem with his statement that he fired three shots while falling down...it doesn't correspond to the wound pattern on Del Pinto. He was shot in the mouth and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder. If he fired the three rounds while falling down, the round that hit Del Pinto in the mouth would have continued on an upward trajectory and should have exited in the lower part of the back of the skull. This proves he is lying. To have the bullet exit behind the left shoulder, Dechawiwit would have had to have been above Del Pinto or Del Pinto would have had to have been lunging down in close proximity to the officer. The Thai cop just hung himself.

The police statements have been ridiculous from the beginning, but I guarantee this wont change a thing, he is not even going to be suspended, maybe not even the classic punishment of permanent transfer, certainly not any real kind of punishment like imprisonment.... you guys watch.

Damian

Actually alot of people didnt seem to know that the police were "dodgy" here and were arguing against it. Not to mention the people from overseas reading this thread. But as long as you know then I guess thats all that matters and we should end the discussion right now! WOW! You have a strange perspective.

Damian

This is a dead story, Kat.

Thats why your Thai papers aren't covering it anymore. Reporters can only do second day-leads if there is some fresh angle. (Unless their subbies are uncommonly nice, but 99% of Sub Editors are cruelty personified - so that seldom happens).

Katherine Horton in Ko Samui, backpackers in Kanchanaburi. The moral of this story is 'shit happens'.

"He deserves the death penalty or at the least, life behind bars with no chance of pardon or parole. I'll repeat my earlier assertion that all cops and their superiors (on up to the top of the heap) in Thailand should get docked one week of pay - with the proceeds going to the families of the two farang, and the surviving girl. "

Magic mushroom omelette for breakfast, anyone?

Not a great deal has been said about the victim so far, but his Facebook profile already has several messages of condolences (name Leo John). From reading his profile you can see his photos and an insight into his character to some extent (serious about child and animal welfare etc.).

Could you post here in TV his pics and all info contained there. There is alot of members in Facebook of simular description etc. You also have to sign up.

thx

...oh, for pity's sake. How ludicrously sentimental !

What do we need to see his photos for? Next thing, we'll be hiring a Thaivisa coach to take us all to the crime scene to place posies of flowers.

What is your major malfunction? Are you really such a heartless jerk? "shit happens"? Why are you so blase?

Damian

Jeeze man, we just want people to know the truth and be aware, and we would like justice but that is a pipe dream here.

the problem is you can find the truth when you start asking question and don't believe everything.

someone told you.

In this particular case I dont believe the police (I fully admit bias and wouldnt believe much of anything the police would say in most situations since as far as I can tell they have a massive reputation for untruthfulness and will say or do anything to protect themselves and they will support eachother) I am willing to accept witness accounts but then I have to consider the fact that the police have the power of fear of retribution to pressure witnesses to support the police.

and you have to have really clear evidence when you claim to know the truth (if something like that exist at all - remember the cinamatic recommendation someone gave you)

No you totally misunderstood, I NEVER claimed to know the truth about this situation no matter how obvious it is to me, the truth we have been talking about this whole time that you refuse to pick up on is the truth that the police are a massive mafia that can do whatever they want with no fear of consequences, and that totally relates to this situation obviously.

when people here doubt that everything what the female victim told on the sick bed is 100% true you jumped on any of them how can there be the any doubt.

No I didnt. I was arguing that it was foolish to take the police version seriously (with thier history of covering and lying and killing with no consequence) or the witnesses that are under the power of the police. You are under the power of someone when they have the power to kill you and nothing will be done to protect you or get justice and you KNOW this. I believe her story but I can totally understand others not believing. I simply will never accept the police version 100%. It keeps getting more and more outrageous.

you found the truth allready just with making simplified statements on the internet.

The truth I was talking about was about the police in Thailand in general.

it's often said, that thais when they get angry and furious they are really exploding, over the top, out of control. is maybe true but i has somekind of deep culture reason. because in that society you have to stay calm all the time, take it with a smile, avoid to complain and to criticise even something piss you really off.

that way you collect all your anger until the big explosion.

and i don't know how some of the allday thai bashing and protesting poster would act in a really enervating situation, if they could not let some steam off in their armchair rants.

Culture or whatever is no excuse, there is no reason to kill people over embarassment which often happens. I swallow my pride all the time no matter how angry I get.

your crusade here will change nothing. if you think they life of the female victim is in danger, let's group up with your buddies. support her in real life, try to get the media attention, your canadian embassy to do some work, if there is a lack off as you and other complain.

sitting here, holding lesson how bad thai police is and that you know the truth helps nobody

your self introduction that you don't hang out with hookers (but your friends getting beat up nighttime on a suk&vomit road bar),

I didnt say my friend got beat up, he witnessed the man get killed. I didnt say I dont hang out wih hookers, I just dont go shopping for them, Im not above talking to them if the situation arose (Im always as polite as I can be when talking to all types of people here) and I certainly dont judge people that do shop for them. And dont you dare suggest people are of low character simply because they are out at night on Sukhumvit! I dont drink but I still go to Discos too!

or have a 'other' (better?) contact with 'other' (better?) thais then a lot off other farangs. silly you, that is not convincing. that you hang out with more educated thais (how it comes that you then eyewitness so much violence?)

I didnt mean to come off as a snobby elitist but obviously I did. I was reacting to a personality attack of who I hang out with, so spoke plainly about the kind of people I hang out with. I am not one of those falangs that thinks hes better than others, I do not judge the older guys with their young girlfriends... I have no idea how I will be when I am older and if Im single!

Corruption in Thailand is a fact, and so is it's history. If you have a problem understanding how the origins of the civil service system of patron/client relationships evolved from the Sak Dina system into its current state, and cuts across every bureaucratic institution in Thailand including the police, you are the one who is seeing things off color. I am not saying things are black and white, but if you are going to try and bully people into refraining from calling a spade a spade, then you are behaving like the ignorant one here. There's a remedy for ignorance - read:

The Thai Village Economy in the Past by Chatthip Nartsupha

Pasuk Pongphaichit and Chris Baker - all of their books, and her website: http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk/papers.htm

David K. Wyatthttp:

Transparency International //www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/2007-transparency-international-corruption-perceptions.html

Thou protest too much.

If you don't like Thailand, why do you post here? If you don't like it, and it does not suit all I agree, why do you hang on posting when you move elsewhere?

Resentment because of failed ambitions? I dont know, but this is starting to look like a rant for a rants sake.

Many are happy here, perhaps you mixed in the wrong circles?

Jeeze man, we just want people to know the truth and be aware, and we would like justice but that is a pipe dream here. Doesnt matter how happy some of us are here! Why do you take us stating the situation with Thai police as an attack on you and your personal happiness? Because we make you see things you dont want to see as it might upset your idea of paradise?! I guess all those papers she linked you too are not of interest to you no matter what FACTS might be printed in them as it would only make you a little unhappy? If you prefer ignorance that is your choice, it is YOU that should not post here then.

Damian

Ok this is thoroughly RIDICULOUS. Now all 3 people attacked the policeman..... CMON! Surely with this latest insane statement even the die hard defenders can see this is all lies?! Now the 2 falangs AND a thai man that would totally know better all simutaneously attacked the police officer. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Damian

Well it makes sense because Fuen is perhaps now being threatened with doing time for assaulting a policeman and trying to take his gun. Since the police could decline to recommend bail, he could spend two years on remand awaiting trial and being tried in the slow Thai courts. This prospect might help make his recollections of events more accomodating to Pai's finest. Since he was said to have been walking behind Del Pinto and Reisig he probably got a very clear view of what happened but has not yet made public his version.

Ya now they are correcting all thier mistakes, as just a witness Fuen was a loose end but not anymore, now hes a criminal since they are now saying he assualted a police officer... geeze this is horrible..... I told everyone, nothing is going to happen to the cop, NOTHING.

Damian

Do you know ANYTHING about Thailand? ...

Damian

it's more like somekind of "the more I know, the less I know".

and you know EVERYTHING? or is it more a case of that you BELIEVE that you KNOW something.

gaining knowlegde is a never ending process. you seems to have stopped to taking part in that one and just be comfortable with stereotypes and black and white pictures.

It is not a stereotype, it is a widely accepted fact, only some falangs dont know about it. Ask Thai people about how the police work here. Did you read any of the posts by Arkady or anyone else whos knowledge is much greater than mine?

Damian

Was discussing this case and the Bank silence killing case with my Thai girl friend this evening and was reminded to ask her about another murder case closer to home. Just over a year ago her younger brother's best friend from school was shot dead while walking along a Bangkok street in a drive-by fun killing by a juvenile delinquent. The young hoodlum, who didn't know the victim from Adam, leaned out of a bus window in broad daylight and shot him in the head with a home made gun to show off his bravery to his friends. This was in front of a bus full of witnesses and the murderer was arrested immediately and confessed to the crime. Soon it turned out he was the son of a local policeman (not a senior one), so he was let out on bail immediately with his father's position as surety. Today there has been no progress at all in the prosecution of what should be an open and shut case and the victim's father, who is not a very wealthy or well educated man, after being stonewalled and threatened repeatedly by police for a year has sadly resigned himself to the fact that he will never see justice done for his son. Meanwhile, the murderer is happily roaming the streets terrorising people and may well have killed again by now. The case has never reported on at all on TV or in any Thai or English language print media. These type of cases where police (and even their families) kill or maim with apparent impunity must be so common in Thailand that the media don't bother to report them, unless there is something of special interest in the story e.g. foreign victims or the amputation of pretty young girl's arm.

If ever there was a perfect example of the problems I keep referring to it is that example right there. Dear lord... it makes me sick.

Damian

Ok this is thoroughly RIDICULOUS. Now all 3 people attacked the policeman..... CMON! Surely with this latest insane statement even the die hard defenders can see this is all lies?! Now the 2 falangs AND a thai man that would totally know better all simutaneously attacked the police officer. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Damian

Sorry I just had to throw this useless but funny statement by my Thai employees just now as Im sitting here. I mentioned the killing and one of them laughed and said "ya, we know, and we all know what really happened, the cop murdered that guy and tried to murder the girl, we all know" (meaning all thai people have already assumed this)

Damian

I think Chanmans major beef is he would like us to debate in a more civilised manner. I dont even think he disagrees all that much.

Damian

Youre right in a sense, I dont go hooker shopping, I dont have a thai teerac half my age, I dont live in a 3000 baht a month room and live like a backpacker amongst the poorer thais and eat off the street so ya in a way I dont have the same kind of contact as alot of falangs in Thailand. I associate with more educated people and discuss these matters with them though.

I actually only have ONE bad experience with Thai police which I talked about earleir in this thread. BUT I have probably FORGOTTEN more horrible police stories in Thailand than you have ever learned. And I dont mean horrible like this one in this thread. Just tons of examples such as the falang that had his brains spilled out in front of the Landmark Hotel a few New Years ago and died (over a bill argument - they were being told to pay for drinks that other people had ordered that were not associated with them), the alcohol street stall staff that did it were never punished and the whole episode was quickly swept under the rug, why? Because the street stall owner was a cop, he didnt do anything, except not allow justice to be done and that to me is as bad as being the actual perpetrator. I only know of this because my friend was right there when it happened.

Damian

You assume a lot about other posters, I am sure there are as many good stories as there are bad but good stories are not news hence you do not hear of them.

As one poster said earlier, your comments will fall on deaf ears as long as you see things in such a black and white way, (and immature) life here and in most places is much more a shade of grey.

I understand these are your fellow country people but things are not panning out well for them it seems they, or she at least was not squeaky clean.

This does not mean I condone the shootings, I for one believe we will never know the truth, from what I can see neither party are people any respectable person would associate with based on the information we have read so far, and that is undoubtedly all we will have to go on.

You assumed alot too when you suggested there was something wrong with who I associate with and in turn the kindof person I am. So I defended myself and told you straight the kind of person I am and who I associate with.

I have always seen things as black and white. I beleive in good and evil, right and wrong, to me there is no in between. However I do recognise these grey areas you speak of but again I dont see the grey, to me there is always an obvious white and black in the grey. There is always the right thing to do and the wrong thing, no matter the details and circumstances. The situation might be grey but there is always a black or white choice to be made. I watched a Thai man trying to repeatedly run his girlfriend over with his motorbike at close range (not coming at her from high speed but close and ramming her and knocking her down and trying to drive over her) I of course know that the right thing to do is go over there and stop him, the grey part is that if I do I will most likely be killed or jailed... even if I knock him out and run away, he will probably be back on that corner every night waiting for me to exact revenge for causing him to lose face and at the time that was a corner I was going to be walking by alot. I chose the black choice an didnt get involved to selfishly protect myself (just like the other 20 people watching).

The Canadian victims didnt have to be squeeky clean to deserve to live and not be shot.

Damian

Youre right in a sense, I dont go hooker shopping, I dont have a thai teerac half my age, I dont live in a 3000 baht a month room and live like a backpacker amongst the poorer thais and eat off the street so ya in a way I dont have the same kind of contact as alot of falangs in Thailand. I associate with more educated people and discuss these matters with them though.

Damian

I quite liked your posts untill you decided to wheel out the "I'm better than you" drivel. That says more about you than any well reasoned opinion.

I didnt mean it as such and apologise if you took offence, Chanman was suggesting that I associate with bad people and that I am a bad person so I wanted to clear that up completely. Not drinking and even doing drugs isnt something I do to be good, it has simply been a life choice kind of like being a vegetarian (which Im not).

Damian

Thailand must be an absolutely HORRIBLE place to live. If I believed just ten percent of what the anti Thai crusaders said in just this thread, I'd pack my bags and go home for sure. These people make it VERY easy to fall in the "If you don't like it, GO HOME" camp.

I have been here for many years and part of my living in Thailand rules is to keep a low profile. You're not in Kansas Toto. In all the years I have been here, the only problems I have had were with drunk farangs. Rude, arrogant, drunk, big mouthed farangs.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I love Thailand and Thai people but am horrified at the situation with the police and the general lack of safety especially towards women. There are so many wonderful things here though and no I dont mean the women although that is a major wonderful part for most of the falang men here. I have a career here that I am unwilling to give up, same with my Japanese girlfriend, that is why we stay even though she has had several horrible experiences (none with police). I also fully agree with you and I keep an extremely low profile and always smile and act polite. I have swallowed my pride so many times I have lost count, I have been in many dangerous situations and always managed to talk my way out of it even if all it entailed was never stop smiling. But I have never had a drink in my life and of course drugs are nonexistent for me too so that probably helps keep me safer than the next falang.

Guys come on seriously, it is Thai culture, it's just the way it is here, the police make their real money through corruption. Is it that you dont know this and dont want to believe it or did you think I was really saying something off the wall and outlandish? Im sure there are some good cops.

Damian

Thai culture ?

Sorry Damian , although it is widely known their is much corruption at

every level and every sector or institution .

Doesn't make sense how you describe it as culture , it is a practise not culture .

Anyway as you seem to know it so well how things work , have you lived

in a moo ban or ampuh for more then several years ?

And by that know how the locals handle things apart from your knowledge of

outside information ?

If you do maybe you will understand more why and how

things work here differently . Its a long process to understand it , and I will tell you

that in my experience things turn to be much different than you might think or

better said the impression you might have , which not have to be untrue per se ,

its just common you know what I mean right ?

Anyway the best way is to avoid any police affairs from the beginning .

Maybe culture was the wrong word to use. I dont know lots of things about Thailand, I unfortunately do hear about every negative story and victimisation due to my wide range of friends (falang, Japanese, Thai) so whatever circle it happens in, I hear about it. I also read alot.

Damian

Youre right in a sense, I dont go hooker shopping, I dont have a thai teerac half my age, I dont live in a 3000 baht a month room and live like a backpacker amongst the poorer thais and eat off the street so ya in a way I dont have the same kind of contact as alot of falangs in Thailand. I associate with more educated people and discuss these matters with them though.

I actually only have ONE bad experience with Thai police which I talked about earleir in this thread. BUT I have probably FORGOTTEN more horrible police stories in Thailand than you have ever learned. And I dont mean horrible like this one in this thread. Just tons of examples such as the falang that had his brains spilled out in front of the Landmark Hotel a few New Years ago and died (over a bill argument - they were being told to pay for drinks that other people had ordered that were not associated with them), the alcohol street stall staff that did it were never punished and the whole episode was quickly swept under the rug, why? Because the street stall owner was a cop, he didnt do anything, except not allow justice to be done and that to me is as bad as being the actual perpetrator. I only know of this because my friend was right there when it happened.

Damian

Guys come on seriously, it is Thai culture, it's just the way it is here, the police make their real money through corruption. Is it that you dont know this and dont want to believe it or did you think I was really saying something off the wall and outlandish? Im sure there are some good cops.

Damian

Bank is dead.

How can anyone trust these guys?

See what happened here...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1751929

NOBODY does trust these guys, except maybe a few naive falangs that don't have a clue what is really going on here. Sorry for the insult to the naive falangs but it's the truth.

Damian