geriatrickid

3 hours ago, rumak said:

 

I'm waiting for all the fervent maskers and lockdown guys (and gals) to post " uhhhh,  maybe there

was another way to handle this feardemic "  

HA !   never gonna happen !       loss of face, and all......... farang style

 

Well you could have stricter measures as they do in Sweden.

Are you not aware that Sweden  kept in place its  public space  restrictions, its recommendations for at risk groups and the general population to limit social activity, and has maintained its recommendations for telecommuting? The countries with some of the worst surges now (UK and Canada) dropped these recommendations. Hundreds of Swedes did not swarm bars and beaches as was done in the UK and Canada. How many karaoke nights  have you heard about in Stockholm where the idiots went home infected and  spread the disease? Well they did that in Canada. 175+ infected after a few days  all because one bar had a karaoke night.

 Masks are necessary in countries where  the population is crowded and  people cannot  effectively socially distance.  Sweden had an advantage of not being a high density population and a population that was compliant with government recommendations.   

Sweden my  require masks on public transit in some larger cities, so don't gloat just yet. 

It looks like we have a lot of people  who are living in their land of make believe. There are not 150,000 tourists in Thailand. A large portion of the foreigners are SE Asian workers from Cambodia and Myanmar. Almost all of the bonafide tourists went home months ago. Thailand only has about 80,000 retirement visa holders, and a large number of those people are not in the country now. Others could not meet the visa requirements pre Covid19  and they benefited from the  Covid19 extension policy.

11 hours ago, genericptr said:

You don't get it. Because now is not normal. That's the entire issue. Normally I go home no problem and come back when I want to. Not this time. Everything is different this time.

That's not Thailand's problem or fault. You have an election in November. Vote.

11 hours ago, genericptr said:

USA has 300k Thai residents I believe. We've taken in thousands of refugees from the region and surely would have done the same for Thailand. If only Americans knew how the Thais treat us here they wouldn't be so generous in the future.

Those Thais have had to jump through hoops to stay in the USA. Have you ever dealt with US Immigration?  Are you a refugee? If so, you can make your claim to the  Thai government and they will process it. I doubt  that the Thais separate children from their mothers or put children in large holding cages without proper supervision and support.

12 hours ago, Rockhound said:

Sweden is the first country to put CV-19 behind them.  Give me the name of any one of the 200 or so countries in the world which imposed lockdowns which can say that it was successful?

Sweden has not put Covid19 behind it. Hundreds of people are still falling ill every day.

The use of the term lockdown is misleading. The invention of facts by many on this forum is incredible.  One of the biggest misrepresentations repeated is that Sweden had fewer risk mitigation measures in place.  On the contrary, Sweden has had, and continues to have strict control measures in place. Many of the measures are similar to other countries. The difference is that they are self imposed,  and self regulated with a population which has for the most part complied.  Sweden and other successful countries like Poland have maintained three key risk mitigation measures that those with a problem have not. 

1. General population stay at home recommendation still in place.

2. At risk population stay at home recommendation still in place

3. Public space closures still in effect.

These are in addition to ongoing teleworking recommendations /workspace closures  and have kept the adult population from circulating in large numbers, minimizing exposure to at risk groups.

Countries with a problem like France, UK, Canada, Australia etc.

1. Dropped the general population stay at home recommendations 

2. Dropped the at risk population stay at home recommendations

3. Opened  public space. (The UK does not enforce the closure.)

The countries also loosened  teleworking recommendations. The UK and went even further, telling people to go back to the office. Canadians were told it was safe to go back to the office subject to a lower head count. In the UK and Canada we have seen students gathering in the hundreds in parks and at  packed bars with the result that there are multiple outbreaks in many large cities. 

There are some things Sweden did right and better than other countries and that was compliance, and  respecting the stay at home guidelines. The Swedes engaged in responsible social distancing, which is why a mask would not be as helpful as it would be in a big congested city country like the UK.  Canada has had a chronic problem with non compliance; whether it is a packed beach in BC or a 500 vehicle car gathering last weekend in Hamilton. The UK has to  contend with idiot ravers and religious nutters who believe that the social distancing does not apply to them.

Look at the risk mitigation measures in effect and it is clear that Sweden is not a wide open country. 

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"Last week (as of Sept 9th), the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control confirmed Sweden’s drop in infection rate, with only 12 cases per million, compared to 18 in neighboring Denmark and 14 in nearby Norway.

"The figures also show that out of 2,500 randomly selected and tested people in Sweden, none tested positive, compared to 0.9 percent positive in April, and 0.3 percent in May.

'We interpret this as meaning there is not currently a widespread infection among people who do not have symptoms,' said Karin Tegmark, deputy head of the Public Health Agency of Sweden.

When compared to the rest of Europe, Sweden’s death rate sits somewhere in the middle. However, officials are confident that playing the long game will see this improve drastically."

 

sweden-close-to-victory-over-coronavirus-never-had-a-lockdown-or-mask-mandate

Your post relies on stale data. In plain language it is out of date. The article is September 8. The data it uses for a period of 2 weeks prior. We are a month after the fact.  One must look at the current trend and there are questions of reliability. This does not mean that Sweden has not posted positive news, just that the data is not accurate for today.

The current trend is an increase in the number of infections. This is a reflection of the end of summer vacation and the return to school of children.  Definitive conclusions cannot be made until October.

7 hours ago, TommyL727 said:

This is off topic. I just want to say that we NEVER used masks in Norway. Not in stores, not on public transports, nowhere. If you wanted, you could of course. But very few did. And things are going just fine, 267 dead with a mean age of 82. Not that that is a good thing, but the life expectancy in Norway is...yes you guessed it. 82! So people are actually dying with covid, not from it. Except from some few cases of course, which the media is especially keen on dragging onto the front page for scare mongering. The last flare ups have been because some venues, and very localized. So if you take off those 3 or so flare ups, which is now under control, the graph would be as flatlined as my long dead grandmother, rest her soul. I pity you guys from Australia and other countries where they stripped you of your basic human rights. Its a criminal act, and I hope the responsible for it will pay.

 

On topic: Not one single tourist from atleast here, that I know of, will take 2 weeks quarantine. Expats only.

Actually, you are on topic because  your comments illustrate how difficult it is to set policy when conditions change. Norway is now undergoing a surge in its infections (just like  France, Spain, Canada, Australia). Summer vacation is over,  children back in school etc. There is a problem when the  infections start to double. In the past month cases are showing a surge; 377 cases to 728 cases to  740 to 751. Hospital admissions have increased too.  This is manageable,  in large part because the population is only 5.3 million.

Norway like the EU, UK Australia, Canada, lifted restrictions before the summer holiday season. everything was under control, but then summer  ended.  The management of the new surge is under review;

Norwegian prime minister Erna Solberg has said that the gradual reopening of Norway following the unprecedented coronavirus restrictions must now stop. The government is also considering tightening societal restrictions if the increase in the rate of positive COVID-19 tests seen in recent weeks continues.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/09/10/norway-pm-coronavirus-measures-could-be-tightened/#6b08b0fc29d6

What we are seeing in Norway is similar to what we are seeing elsewhere. Small groups of people are not acting responsibly and we are seeing flareups. I suggest  you wait a few weeks and see what happens. I expect that Norway will show the same characteristics as elsewhere.

The takeaway is that Thailand can make whatever policy it wants now, but it will change if the designated countries do not get their surge under control. We hopefully will not see the incompetence of the UK  with its  now you have it now you don't safe countries listing. Prudent people will not rely on whatever Thailand says now.

1 minute ago, Disparate Dan said:

You omitted another prerequisite mentioned in all the reports last week: charter flights only. The 300 tourists per week would all have to come from one city, or it wouldn't make aviation sense.

Quite posisble. TG had direct flights from CPH, OSL and ARN  They filled  a B787 or B777 back in the good old days.  If they do it once a week, easy.

1 hour ago, Sharp said:

Covid-19 insurance and tracking app people would probably accept but 2 weeks quarantine that's a tricky sell to say the least!!

Plus the needless scaremongering needs to stop from all MSM and alike. 

Please  provide some examples of this scaremongering.  Imagined claims are not facts.

Honestly, I don't think we will see much support from the rest of the world for Trump on this. Ask Canada how its Huawei  fiasco is going. The Chinese are bullying Canada and holding its nationals  hostage all because Canada was legally obliged to respond to a USA arrest and extradition request for the Huawei CFO for her allegedly violating sanctions in respect to Iran. Appreciably the Canadian government has been near useless as it is dependent upon China for vital PPE and pharmaceutical imports during the pandemic, but the Americans have been MIA on this and screwed over Canada. It is a lesson not lost on the rest of the world. no one will stick their neck out for the USA now.

Maybe Trump has a legitimate reason to impose his sanctions. I certainly don't know because I haven't seen any evidence. What I do know is that much of Iran's military  equipment is now manufactured in Iran. Components are sourced from other countries under the guise of "civilian use".     It is reported that The 3 largest trading partners of Iran are;  China,- 20%;  United Arab Emirates - 17% and the EU- 16% respectively.  Germany is one of the  more significant EU trading partners. Not surprising since far right groups have received financial support from Iran and the Iran's is the darling of the left of center political groups.  As a reminder, Germany's far right groups have specifically targeted Kurds and of have a holocaust denial fixation, which Iran also promotes.  However, Kurds are one of the main targets and by "coincidence"  Iran wants the Kurds exterminated.  I expect that Trump will need to tread carefully when it comes to his new best friends in the UAE, but that is oil related, so  different  rules apply for them. ???? 

On 9/17/2020 at 7:29 PM, tonray said:

Let's see if he sanctions Putin, who is Iran's primary supplier

No they are not. Putin is no friend of Iran. Don't forget that the Iranians have been linked to Islamic terror groups in some of the outlying muslim dominated republics in the former USSR.

On 9/17/2020 at 10:18 PM, Matzzon said:

Just one question. This man has been irritating people long time enough. What in the world is it that US have that the rest of the world can not be without?
It´s time to put sanctions against this little country, with it´s about 350 million people. Nothing, compared to the rest of the world.

LOL.  Without the US market, the EU economy would collapse. Who would replace the EU's most important export market?

The USA is not the center of the universe, but it is an important part of a  healthy and prosperous planet earth. You should have a look at where much of the world's funds for social progress are sourced. Hint: It's not Australia, Germany or hina.

A large part of the scientific headway in the  campaign for medical treatment and a vaccine against Covid19 is linked to the USA. Without the USA, we would  not be as advanced as we are now.

On 9/18/2020 at 5:31 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

How about arms trade with Saudi Arabia? Or how about all the military equipment which is worth billions of dollars which the USA gives to Israel for free? Bloody double standards. 

Ahh yes, couldn't resist throwing Israel or the KSA into this. If and when these two countries present a clear and imminent threat, you can  come back to this point.  The USA does not give Israel billions of dollars of military equipment for "free". Military aid or financing of purchases comes with conditions and a lot of string attached.  You scream bloody double standard, yet you don't mention the fact that the EU does similar with its sale of military  arms to Egypt.Not a word from you about the EU  sale of  tens of billions of Euros worth of subsidized military arms to India, KSA, or the UAE.

I suggest that you discuss the topic with the people in your organization who are tasked with making strategic investment decisions. They will explain to you why much of Thailand's current financial hardship is a reflection of the world market and the government that it has. Foreign tourism is an important contributor to the economy, but it is a small component. General industry accounts for a GDP share that is 4X+ greater and it is suffering the impact of reduced demand for its products. The one bright spot is agriculture. 

What exactly do you expect Thailand to do if foreign countries in response to an expensive pandemic have imposed restrictions on travel? China is not allowing  tourist junkets to leave the country. That's not Thailand's fault. Australia, Canada, New Zealand and others have  lengthy  isolation periods for  foreign travelers entering their respective countries. It discourages international travel. International  air travel is  unpleasant and  expensive. Consumers are justifiably concerned that they might be subject to a capricious flight cancellation and left stranded. That too is not Thailand's fault. All the lobbying  in the world will not change those characteristics.  Time, however will.  Wait. It will be a few more months of this and then it should end.

20 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

 

 

As every day passes it is proven this virus is not the death sentence originally portrayed.  Governments all across the globe refuse to admit overreaction and fear liability for killing livelihood of millions of their citizens so they double down on tyranny hoping no one will notice the virus is fizzling out.

No government ever claimed that the virus was a "death sentence".  The isse has always been the direct cost of a large portion of a population becoming ill and the contnued physical damage in a large number of patients.  The strategies deployed by many of the governments were successful in controlling the spread of infection, and now  ignorant people blame the government for the success of the strategy.

Instead of making an exaggerated unfounded claim, why not back up your position with some numbers? How much would it have cost if the infection ran its course infecting large numbers and causing them to miss work for 2-4 weeks at a time?  What was your strategy for coping with the 10-20% of the population who would have been ill over a continuous period?  There is no proven "herd immunity" and a growing indication of  reinfection, what is your cost to that? 

On what basis do you claim the virus is "fizzling out"? The evidence is plain as day that  when containment efforts are loosened, the virus infections surge. 

You know everything, so please cost it out for us.

6 hours ago, faraday said:

A long rant about Covid, & not much else.

At least you're not labelling people 'uneducated fools' like you have a number of times.

except there wasn't much said about Covid19, except that if he had the same results as the government (and he would have), his detractors would blame it on him.

The point being is that nothing has changed. The same foreigners who hated him then, still hate him now, except they are fewer in number because alot of the old farts have died off in the  14 years since. 

And no need to label some uneducated fools as they do a good job of showing  it all by themselves.

Are you one of the foreigners who blamed him for all manner of sins, but now curse the current administration?

2 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

The rich obviously are, the poor not at all.

Cannot wait to read the drivel from the Thaksin haters, who, by the way, was fairly elected, as was his sister, who was also illegally deposed.

I expect that most of those farangs have died or been forced to leave Thailand.  14 years is a long time and I am depressed knowing how quickly time has passed.

In respect to the former PM Thaksin, he is still obsessed with having his revenge and regaining  his lost face. Right or wrong, that period is over. He cannot go back in time.  He's like the old guy who sits on the stoop,  waving his cane and yelling at the kids  making too much noise when they play on the street.

And to those who will criticize the man now for being opportunistic. Well, in the good old days of the anti Thaksin posturing in TVF, if the position was reversed and Thaksin or Yingluck still around, his detractors and critics would be ripping into him because of the Covid19 response. Their Covid19 response would have been little different than the current administration's.

19 hours ago, torturedsole said:

Sure. There's a good chance you've contracted C19 previously and not even noticed or will do shortly but highly unlikely that anything untoward will happen to you either way.

 

I had it back in February and still here. I only wear the mask when out shopping in the UK to avoid all the nut jobs who can't help themselves in policing total enforcement of wearing a mask while shopping. It's easier to comply and avoid the aggravation.  

You assume that the small cold that was  circulating in February was Covid19. In the absence of the confirming PCR test, you camnot say that you were infected with Covid19. This has already been discussed multiple times.  

17 hours ago, Brightly said:

Thanks for posting this!

 

My favorite is a NY strip, but rib eye come pretty close.
 

This is certainly cheaper than a certain popular restaurant (which I enjoy) that must not be named (!)

 

Would you mind commenting on the social distancing situation?

It's  cheaper because it is the 2011 price quoted. ????   

Seems you had a Marty McFly moment.