jackcorbett

Can we get back to the topic. I'd like to know more about upgrading an Air Blade but couldn't care less about a hairdresser car - particularly in a bike forum.

I entirely agree which is why I just posted a message in a more appropriate thread so those wanting to pursue the "sports cars" discussion can. Miata girlie car thread If we had more information here on where after market performance components and parts can be purchased, what they accomplish....eg...How many more ponies will this give an Air Blade or Nouvo we have more to discuss including reliability issues that are raised when one modifies a stock bike. I'd like to know more about tire size and how it influences the handling and general performance of a given bike and its affect on fuel economy if any.

In the US Miatas are considered rather gay ...

Really? I'll have to admit that when I first considered buying a Miata my thoughts were, 1. It's too small for me, 2. It's more a woman's car, and 3. It is too cute. What will people think of me when they see me driving this toy? But once I took one out for a test drive, I couldn't care less--it drove so much better than any car I had ever driven before. Let the idiots out there say what they want. So I bought one and ten years later I bought my second Miata.

From 1993 when I bought my first Miata on it's evolved into an increasingly powerful car. Here check this out Near perfection in a sports car

Tim Hagger in his review wrote "even if they are stuck in traffic, these drivers are still having way more fun than you are. The MX-5 is brilliant, and is just about the most fun car I can imagine. I've been a passenger in a Miata many times, but from the driver's seat it is a surprisingly good experience. It turns on a thought, accelerates well even with a relatively small engine, and simply glides along the road. I personally own a Porsche 911, and the MX-5 makes me wonder why I bothered.

One might prefer another sports car to a Miata. Each to his own, but you are going to find such superlatives with boring consistency in the automotive press which leads me to comment "Only an ill-informed Neanderthal" can make the kinds of comments about the Miata I'm seeing here. It's the absolute finest of the "affordable sports cars" and its far better than most Non-affordable (for most of us) sports cars such as the 911 Porsche in most respects.

Sorry I have to be honest here...You blew up three engines but your telling this guy HE made a mistake? I find this amusing. YOU would get a ER6n, how does that help the guy asking the question? There's no comparison other than they both have 2 wheels. The Kawasaki is not a scooter and costs about ten times the price.

Jeff--Unless I am missing something you provided only the sketchiest information re your engine modifications and although you just stated you pm'd the person asking advice you haven't offered what you can to the conversation here. As for this being a bike forum, I replied in an earlier post ( (But I think I'd better get back on subject in future posts) and LivinLOS just posted "Anyway this is the bikes forum". I think we all realize that but might have gotten caught up with the enthusiasm of the moment.

Now....the reason I got into an extensive description about how I blew three engines on my first Miata is I think it offers some useful information about the kinds of things that can happen if one soups up a motorbike. If you had shared with the rest of us a more extensive description of what you actually did and why along with what performance improvements have resulted, we could continue on with the discussion in a meaningful way. (Perhaps you did in another thread). Are you the guy who put a larger engine in your airblade JBob alluded to? If so you went up to 130 c'cs in a 110 machine. But we don't even know that for sure. You could have stated, "I think I increased my horsepower output to 12 or my torque by an increase of 20 %. This could all help anyone who is thinking about increasing the power of his bike because further discussion would result. I might ask you, for example, "If I increased the horsepower of my Miata 50 % and that resulted in transmission failure, can someone increasing the horsepower of an Air Blade or Nouvo expect to experience belt failure and other related drive train problems? Fact is a much larger machine such as a TMax has two belts, not one so I'm sure the Yamaha engineers figured out a Nouvo belt is not sufficient. But does a Nouvo Elegance use a different belt and other components than the Yamaha Nouvo MX to compensate for the 20 % plus additional horsepower? And how about the Air Blade? What extra margin of stress tolerance is built into its stock components right down to the belt it uses? Does the PCX use different transmission components and belt to accommodate the increased horsepower over the Air Blade? Real world examples such as my Miata example are certainly relevant here because they go much further than such namby pamby replies as "You might decrease your engine life of your bike if you soup it up" to something far more shocking. I blew three engines and caused the early demise of a transmission of a sports car. You might or might not have the same results as I did with a bike but that's up to you."

Yeah the idea that the MX5 / Miata is some pinnacle of driver car is a bit of a joke..

In the UK its considered a hairdressers car. Nice for the wife but...

S2000 nice little roadster and still under boxster / 911 money.

The hair dresser's car

I think a lot of people over there are not "switched on." My whole point was to show it think it's a mistake to soop up an Air Blade by using my Miata experiences as an example. When I bought my 2002 Special edition I got it in the 6 speed overdrive transmission feeling it would run forever. At cars.com I'm coming up with a suggested retail price for brand new 2010 Mazda Miatas of $22648 and for the Honda S2000 $35705. So for those who want to pay nearly double the price they can talk all they want about hair dressers and women driving Miatas. Truth is the S2000 is not a real man's car. Sure it is going to go fast. It might even do well at the top light but one has to be content with carrying one's purse in the luggage compartment. Here's a little reading for you. Start with Forbes Magazine which likes the "much cheaper Miata but doesn't particularly care for the Honda. Forbes U.S. News ranks the Miata as number one out of 5 "affordable sports cars" U.S. News Here's what Car Connection Car Connectionhas to say about the S2000,

"The 2009 Honda S2000 is one of the least practical mass-production cars on the planet. There's almost no interior or trunk storage, the cockpit's more cramped than the coach seats on a Boeing 757, and it's priced above $30,000. It is a classic roadster sportscar with rear-wheel drive, a ragtop to open on sunny days, a six-speed manual transmission, and a rev-happy four-cylinder engine."

Car and Driver has this to say.

• 
  Lows
  Wind it up or there isn't much power, tiring cabin noise, starting to feel old. Car and Driver.
  

Here's what Edmunds has to say about the Miata: Edmunds "Although not as stylish or powerful as General Motors' roadster twins, the 2009 Mazda MX-5 Miata is still unequaled when it comes to overall driving enjoyment and refinement."

Lastly----I routinely drove 1000 miles non stop with my Miatas. Example---I'd drive 1100 miles from St. Louis to Connecticut, Philadelphia, New York etc to do photo shoots at East Coast night clubs. My trunk held my full size suitcase plus a large camera bag chock full of heavy cameras, flashes, two tripods with umbrellas and other equipment or I'd travel most of the way to Las Vegas in the other direction to attend conventions, once again with all my gear. Now, the S2000 might be fine for chest thumpers wanting to tool around on a little island such as England playing boy racer and stoplight king where the driving distances are very short but it's not a car for a thinking type of guy who wants a a very competent reliable sports car he can actually go out and drive in a variety of circumstances while enjoying every minute of it. The S2000 is more of a dick substitute than real driver's car.

My airblade has a different cylinder, piston, valves, CDI, carb, cam, and exhaust.

A matched kit.

IT'S GREAT!

Your comparison is out of context.

Depending on what people like and want, it's not a mistake.

So what did you do to your Air Blade? I see nothing in this thread that indicates what kind of modifications you have made. "It is great." How so?

I stopped taking my family to Phuket for the simple reason you can't go anywhere without being ripped off severely or having to argue to get a decent price ( I mean 200 baht for a tuk tuk to go 100m in Patong is a joke ) - it ruins the holiday and there plenty of other beaches in Thailand where it doesn't happen

I will be heading to Krabi, and once there will be renting a motorbike. Much better prices than Phuket for one thing.

Point made. I was referring to those who'd call a Miata a hair dresser's car. I might make the point about Skydiving. Skydiving is not a very practical means of getting to point A or B. But it is an extremely exhilarating sport, guaranteed to get the adrenaline going. No car or motorcycle can begin to thrill like Skydiving but if I had to come as close as possible I might pick a Ferrari. But the price of one is beyond reason for most of us. To expand on the skydiving-Ferrari example if one has the money and wants to spend it on the S2000 because of the sound of the engine, he liked the sound of the engine, he likes its performance on a twisty road, all the power to him. It's a fine sports car for what it is. However, if you check the internet for reviews on the Miata and the @2000 you will find the Miata wins hands down in terms of price, in terms of being a fun car to drive, in terms of reliability, and in terms of being an everyday car you can drive while carrying a significant amount of luggage. And short of a race car nothing handles better than a Miata. There are sports cars that will handle as good, but none better. I can honestly say that if someone were to give me a sports car and I had to be responsible for its upkeep, paying for gas, etc and I could not resell it, I'd take the Miata over the Honda, a Mercedes or a Porsche any day. As much as I like German engineering the German cars are much more problem prone and costly to maintain. (But I think I'd better get back on subject in future posts).

I don't need to check the internet, I have first hand experience of both cars. You obviously loved your Miata's and nothing wrong with that, however I couldn't disagree more when you assert it's the better handling and more of a drivers car.

You misread me I said nothing handles better than a Miata and was very clear that some (although very few) sports cars handle as well. I also allowed that the S2000 is an enthusiasts car. But there's no question that the Miata will carry a lot more (luggage) and for this reason alone is more practical. It is also far cheaper. And more fun to drive for most people due to many factors including its ability to get the power it does have at lower rpms.

think a lot of people over there are not "switched on." My whole point was to show it think it's a mistake to soop up an Air Blade by using my Miata experiences as an example. When I bought my 2002 Special edition I got it in the 6 speed overdrive transmission feeling it would run forever. At cars.com I'm coming up with a suggested retail price for brand new 2010 Mazda Miatas of $22648 and for the Honda S2000 $35705. So for those who want to pay nearly double the price they can talk all they want about hair dressers and women driving Miatas.

I actually agree with your point and was suggesting you're better off spending that little extra to get what you want initially. Once you've paid for all the mods and replacement parts you'll need the price differential is not that great.

Now, the S2000 might be fine for chest thumpers wanting to tool around on a little island such as England playing boy racer and stoplight king where the driving distances are very short but it's not a car for a thinking type of guy who wants a a very competent reliable sports car he can actually go out and drive in a variety of circumstances while enjoying every minute of it. The S2000 is more of a dick substitute than real driver's car.

555

Mmm.......the S2000 was voted best sportcar for a number of years in Top Gear polls and since when was luggage space a major attribute in a sports car ? Actually it's not a stoplight king as it's main weakness is a lack of torque. but get the engine singing all the way to 9k and it's a sublime drive that any biker would appreciate, the best drivers car I ever owned and I've had some seriously nice cars.

Point made. I was referring to those who'd call a Miata a hair dresser's car. I might make the point about Skydiving. Skydiving is not a very practical means of getting to point A or B. But it is an extremely exhilarating sport, guaranteed to get the adrenaline going. No car or motorcycle can begin to thrill like Skydiving but if I had to come as close as possible I might pick a Ferrari. But the price of one is beyond reason for most of us. To expand on the skydiving-Ferrari example if one has the money and wants to spend it on the S2000 because of the sound of the engine, he liked the sound of the engine, he likes its performance on a twisty road, all the power to him. It's a fine sports car for what it is. However, if you check the internet for reviews on the Miata and the @2000 you will find the Miata wins hands down in terms of price, in terms of being a fun car to drive, in terms of reliability, and in terms of being an everyday car you can drive while carrying a significant amount of luggage. And short of a race car nothing handles better than a Miata. There are sports cars that will handle as good, but none better. I can honestly say that if someone were to give me a sports car and I had to be responsible for its upkeep, paying for gas, etc and I could not resell it, I'd take the Miata over the Honda, a Mercedes or a Porsche any day. As much as I like German engineering the German cars are much more problem prone and costly to maintain. (But I think I'd better get back on subject in future posts).

Yeah the idea that the MX5 / Miata is some pinnacle of driver car is a bit of a joke..

In the UK its considered a hairdressers car. Nice for the wife but...

S2000 nice little roadster and still under boxster / 911 money.

The hair dresser's car

I think a lot of people over there are not "switched on." My whole point was to show it think it's a mistake to soop up an Air Blade by using my Miata experiences as an example. When I bought my 2002 Special edition I got it in the 6 speed overdrive transmission feeling it would run forever. At cars.com I'm coming up with a suggested retail price for brand new 2010 Mazda Miatas of $22648 and for the Honda S2000 $35705. So for those who want to pay nearly double the price they can talk all they want about hair dressers and women driving Miatas. Truth is the S2000 is not a real man's car. Sure it is going to go fast. It might even do well at the top light but one has to be content with carrying one's purse in the luggage compartment. Here's a little reading for you. Start with Forbes Magazine which likes the "much cheaper Miata but doesn't particularly care for the Honda. Forbes U.S. News ranks the Miata as number one out of 5 "affordable sports cars" U.S. News Here's what Car Connection Car Connectionhas to say about the S2000,

"The 2009 Honda S2000 is one of the least practical mass-production cars on the planet. There's almost no interior or trunk storage, the cockpit's more cramped than the coach seats on a Boeing 757, and it's priced above $30,000. It is a classic roadster sportscar with rear-wheel drive, a ragtop to open on sunny days, a six-speed manual transmission, and a rev-happy four-cylinder engine."

Car and Driver has this to say.

• 
  Lows
  Wind it up or there isn't much power, tiring cabin noise, starting to feel old. Car and Driver.
  

Here's what Edmunds has to say about the Miata: Edmunds "Although not as stylish or powerful as General Motors' roadster twins, the 2009 Mazda MX-5 Miata is still unequaled when it comes to overall driving enjoyment and refinement."

Lastly----I routinely drove 1000 miles non stop with my Miatas. Example---I'd drive 1100 miles from St. Louis to Connecticut, Philadelphia, New York etc to do photo shoots at East Coast night clubs. My trunk held my full size suitcase plus a large camera bag chock full of heavy cameras, flashes, two tripods with umbrellas and other equipment or I'd travel most of the way to Las Vegas in the other direction to attend conventions, once again with all my gear. Now, the S2000 might be fine for chest thumpers wanting to tool around on a little island such as England playing boy racer and stoplight king where the driving distances are very short but it's not a car for a thinking type of guy who wants a a very competent reliable sports car he can actually go out and drive in a variety of circumstances while enjoying every minute of it. The S2000 is more of a dick substitute than real driver's car.

Something wrong here. 9.5 kW is not the same as 13.5 PS.

9.5 kW = 12.74 hp = 12.92 PS

13.5 PS = 9.93 kW = 13.32 hp

So, if we substitute 12.74 horsepower for 13,5 in the spreadsheet we come up with this. new power to weight projections If we use 12.92 still another number but nowhere near the 12 percent increase showed in the first spreadsheet.

Very good Scuddy. Now we are cooking. Here's a little something I've worked up using your figures.

power to weight comparion between PCX and Yamaha Elegance

Looks like on paper at least the Honda has about a 12 % edge--for now.

I'll wager that there will be no discernible difference in pickup between a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and the new Honda PCXi but if one races ten pairs of bikes the Yamaha will come out slightly ahead. The main difference will be between the feel of the bikes with a standard PCXi feeling heavier, offering a better ride, but due to its weight and greater width less agile. When Honda first came out with its Air Blade due to its having water cooling and Yamaha not, Honda could have offered more horsepower than its rival. Instead it claimed its Air Blade was the fastest of the 125 c.c. class of automatics. NOT TRUE. Once again in the book I looked at in the Honda dealership Honda had a drawing of a Nouvo Elegance going up against the new PCXi. The Honda had traveled 20 meters whereas the Yamaha had gone around 19.5 meters giving a 3 % edge to Honda. I don' t think 3 % is statistically significant and that Honda cherry picked the bikes in their test. In the real world once again I think Yamaha Elegance will once again best the Honda by a slight margin but either way, both bikes are very fine machines, and choosing between the two will be like choosing between vanilla and chocolate ice cream.

Here's why I went with Bupa. First off while living in the U.S. a number of years ago I dropped my Blue Cross Blue Shield Health Insurance and got a competitive policy with another company. Much later on I got it with Mutual of Omaha, a large company, offering the full gamut of coverages---auto, health, property, etc. After a few years Mutual of Omaha got out of the health insurance business and I was shifted to another company. But the premiums were substantially higher than I would have had to pay with Blue Cross Blue Shield. At this point I could not get on again with Blue Cross Blue Shield for reasons I won't get into here. So here one of the country's largest insurance companies decided to simply get out of the health care business. From this point on, I decided that a man should go only with the largest and most committed company offering health care policies. So when I moved to Thailand it was apparent to me that Bupa seemed least likely to get out of the health care business. Also....Bupa will keep insuring its insureds so long as they keep paying their premiums. For me, at my age any company that's going to drop me because I have turned sixty or sixty-five is worthless. Lastly, Bupa will cover me in every country in the world except for my own country, the U.S.A. Considering I've traveled to Vietnam three times in a year and a half I find this to be critical. Lastly, I wanted some pretty high powered coverage. I got it with Bupa. And a few months ago I had to have a minor operation so I had the opportunity to thoroughly test the facilities at Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. So I had an overnight stay in a large very comfortable two room suite. Bupa paid every cent of my overnight stay in the hospital.

I'm talking survivability as being primary. An automatic allows a man to concentrate 100 percent on his driving and not on his shifting.

Well this is where we differ totally.. I never need to conciously think about shifting, its all as automatic as walking.. Plus with a manual you have more control, engine braking, control over power delivery that simply isnt there with the on off power transition from freewheel to power on of an auto.

And in fact the Honda 125 c.c. Pxi is not going to be as good as my 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance either. Next to my Nouvo Elegance the Honda Pcx in the Jomtien Immigration parking area is very obviously in an entirely new category. Its got a bigger frame. It's got bigger tires. I'm sure it's got better shocks, and a 300 pound guy is going to no doubt like it better than my Nouvo Elegance. And if it had the horsepower I'm sure it could cruise comfortably at 70 miles an hour on a U.S. Interstate whereas the Wave wouldn't no matter what tires you put on it or how much horsepower its got.

For that matter my Nouvo Elegance won't do it either because it's just too small.

Why not ??? I can do 110 plus kph on a 10 year old 60,000 km cheer.. No problem at all..

And I thought we already established that it doesnt have bigger tyres.. Its still 14 inch wheels ??

I both agree and disagree about using the engine to brake. I once had a manual transmission Diesel Volkswagen Dasher which was basically an upgraded rabbit and was caught in a big snow storm on my way from Aspen, Colorado to Sun Valley, Idaho. And believe me I took full advantage of using my engine to brake and to control my rate of descent in those mountains. I shudder to think of having to have made do with an automatic. However, I keep qualifying a lot of what I am saying..."For Pattaya driving conditions". For the most part its flat here. Those were big steep mountains I was in while driving that Volkswagen and I was in the middle of a blizzard. Also, not too many people on that road then, but in Pattaya I want 100 percent of my concentration on my driving. Not 99 percent. Like you shifting is second nature for me after having something like 8 manual transmission motorcycles and driving manual cars for forty years but especially in a place like Pattaya that is congested by so many idiot drivers, the automatic still allows a man to focus at least a little more on his driving.

As for tire size I posted a query many months ago that went something like.."Is it better to have larger diameter tires or wider tires?" In this care the PCX has as you put it, only 14 inch wheels. The Nouvo has 16's. An Air Blade's stock tires are 10 mm wider than those on a Nouvo but its having a larger diameter tire means the Nouvo can put a longer patch on the ground versus the Air Blades wider contact area. But the Nouvo develops great centrifugal force due to its larger diameter wheels and this offers greater stability.

Going still one step still further for 125 c.c. bikes, the Yamaha Xmax has something like a 130 width rear tire. Its gas tank holds 11.2 liters of fuel versus the Air Blades 4.0, Elegance's 4.8 and the Pcx's 6.2 liters. Fully fueled and oiled the Xmax weighs a full 366 pounds. It's not being offered in Thailand, at least not yet. Nevertheless it does illustrate this trend to greater size for small displacement scooters.

So what's ideal? Once again it depends first where one is doing most of his riding and then on a number of other factors.

Im guessing that throttle body sensor is for emissions, just a guess though.

Found these two links on the subject features on Elegance in 2008 and Throttle positon sensor tps

How much of a difference it makes if any I haven't a clue.

I'd trade bikes and forget about modifying the engine. The Mazda Miata sports car is considered to be the most reliable car in Mazda's entire lineup. It's been offered since 1990 and throughout all those years it's undergone constant improvement and today I'd have to rate it as the finest all around sports car you can buy. I've had two of them, the latest being a Special edition 2002 with 143 horsepower and a six speed overdrive transmission. I think the latest model develops 170 horses. My first Miata was a 1992 model and I wound up putting practically 150,000 miles on it before getting the 2002 model when its transmission failed me. Miata transmissions simply don't fail and hardly anything else does either.

I had souped the car up. After all it only had 116 horsepower and a 1600 c.c. engine (the new ones are 2000 cc's). First improvement was an aftermarket exhaust that reputedly would add 5 extra ponies. Then I put a nifty air intake device on it that was being sold by Jackson Racing. The idea was to bring cool air into the engine and it supposedly gave the Miata an extra 12 to 15 horsepower. That made perfectly good sense to me because I knew from experience that tractors pulled better in the field at night when the air got cooler. But I just had to go a couple of steps better. I had a Sebring supercharger put on it. But in order to handle the extra horsepower I had to have larger wheels and tires put on the car also. The effect on my Miata's performance was incandescent. The little four cylinder engine now behaved like a V-8. Whereas before I could idle around town comfortably at 40 miles an hour in fifty gear I could now do it at 30 miles an hour. Before I could top out at about 118 miles an hour at something like 6000 rpm's. Now the car would do precisely 139 miles an hour and then the rev limiter would kick in which would immediately starve the engine of fuel. It was like hitting a brick wall and who knows how fast that Miata would go if it never had the rev limiter. But it was doing over 7200 rpm's in fifth at that 139 miles an hour.

I blew not one, but three engines because of that supercharger. The first time was at 139 miles an hour. My theory is that Mazda never designed the Miata to do 7200 rpms for extended periods of time. Sure, when you go through the gears you are going to hit 7200 rpm's for a second or two but then you are going to shift to a higher gear thus reducing your rpms. But if you are accelerating say from 100 miles an hour to 139 it's going to take quite a few seconds to do it and that puts a huge strain on the engine. From then on I'd never do more than 120 with the car but I still blew two more engines. I wound up having a nice header put on and had the supercharger taken off. The car became very reliable again taking me clear across the U.S. several times with no mishaps. And then the transmission completely failed me and I got the new Miata.

There is no question that Mazda designed that transmission to handle only 116 horsepower plus a few extra ponies to provide a safety margin. Now I was expecting it to handle 180 to 190 horsepower and not only that, unlike most turbochargers a supercharger provides a lot more torque at lower rpm levels.

An Air Blade is a very nice machine as is. If you needed more horsepower you should never have gotten it in the first place. Same same for my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. It offers excellent acceleration for me with my girlfriend riding behind me at all speeds I'm willing to go in or around Pattaya. If I wanted more power I wouldn't hesitate and I'd get the Kawasaki ER6n.

If you re-read his posts you'll see that he hasn't had to pay 50,000bt as he hasn't made any claims. The 50,000bt he mentioned was the limit he could claim on the alternative insurance policy the broker was trying to sell him in place of the one she sold him in the first place.

Exactly. Pattiwin was now offering up a policy that would pay out only 50,000 baht. The coverage I purchased provided 500,000 coverage. During the past two weeks a condo up on the fourth floor has had every single floor taken up due to a water leak. Every day we can hear power tools blasting throughout the building as a work crew works on eliminating the problem. 50,000 baht would not touch the cost incurred here.

I was not out anything other than the 1000 baht legal fee to finally make that policy happen which I felt was more than reasonable. Having served on our condo building's committee I've had to go out and hire legal assistance or advice several other times. As an attorney Katrina's been the best of the bunch by a long shot while getting this job done in just three days and for a mere 1000 baht--the price of a dinner for two at many of Pattaya's finer eateries. I am one happy camper.

In Chiang Mai, a few dealers have one black/brown Honda PCX as a display model, priced at 74,000.-.

Of course strictly no test drive, and not even a chance to start the engine.

At least, I could sit on the scooter and found the sitting position not really suitable for someone 6'2 (186cm) and long legs. Due to the contoured seat with integrated back rest, it is not possible to move back any further, and so the space between my knees and the handle bar is only about 2 inches when strait, but touches my knees when the handle bar is turned.

Looking at the specifications, the dry weight is stated as 135 KG. That is a lot for a scooter driven by a 125cc engine. A Honda Scoopy weights only 96 KG.

While nobody seems to know the power output of the PCX, it has the same engine used in the Honda SH125i sold abroad, that has 14 Horse Power at 9000 RPM, so the weight / power ratio would be about the same as the 110cc Honda Scoopy with 9.5 Horse Power and 96 KG, about 10KG / 1 HP

So, hopefully, there will be a chance to test drive the PCX here in Chiang Mai, but right now, for my body size, and considering the high price, high weight and small engine, I would perhaps go for another scooter.

There is a serious flaw in your figures that drive you to the wrong conclusion. First off, one doesn't go around comparing the performance of cars or motorcycles using remote control without a passenger or driver on board. I weigh 76 kilos on a good day. Add my 76 kilos to the 96 kilograms of the Snoopy and you get 172 kilograms total weight that 9.5 horsepower has to haul around. Divide 172 by 9.5 and you get 18.1. Now, assuming the 125 c.c. PCXI has 14 horsepower, I add the weight of this bike of 135 kg to my weight of 76 kilograms and we have 211 kilos this larger bike has to haul around. Divide the 211 kilos by 14 horsepower and you get 15.07 kilograms per horsepower. That's about 3 kilograms per horsepower less so you divide that by 15.07 and you have a 20 % superior power to weight ratio in favor of the new PCXI.

But most of the time I'm not driving solo. I have my 43 kilo Thai girlfriend onboard more than 90 % of the time. The figures now are ...for the Scoopy......76 + 43 + 96=215 dividing by 9.5 horsepower gives you 22.63. For the PCXi it's 76 + 43 + 135=254. Divide that by 14 horsepower gives you 18.1 which is the identical kilograms per horsepower one has driving solo on the Snoopy. So you accelerate just as fast with your girlfriend riding behind you on the PCXI as you do going alone on the Snoopy. Now that's a pretty meaningful difference. It comes out to a 25 % performance edge to the PCXi riding two up. But for a Westerner I'm a light weight and my gf is possibly smaller than the average Thai woman so that 25 % edge for the PCXi will become greater as the weight of driver and passenger increases.

And you have much bigger tires on the PCXi and a far superior shock absorber system. It's one helluva lot more bike. And so is the 135 c.c.Yamaha Nouvo Elegance for that matter. My advice to practically anyone wanting to buy a motorbike-scooter type machine is to 1. Get an automatic (not a Wave style manual) and 2. Get the largest automatic you can short of something like a 550,000 baht T Max. This means either the Honda PCXi or the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. You get far more comfortable seating (for most people), a heavier duty chassis, much better shock absorbing system, more power (in most cases), greater under the seat capacity for groceries and the like, and bigger wheels and tires which by themselves can mean the difference between life and death.

Wow, l am impressed by your deductions. Nice one.

Thanks. I never did that well in Physics but all my life I've been interested in such details as what rifle shoots flatter than another, offers greater stopping power, what the muzzle velocities are or which car does zero to sixty in how many seconds or which car handles the best and why. In spite of such interest I still was a pretty horrible mechanic. And I still can't get any answers as to why Yamaha has a throttle body sensor in the carburetors of its 135 c.c. Elegance but did not have it in its 115 c.c. Mx or what exactly does it do to improve the machine.

Tyres are user replaceable.. If thats the appeal someone wants a set of wide ones will cost just a k or so.. Even seen a wave with big tubeless 'sport' tyres (sent down from bkk he said) that looked wider than a CBR150 (no idea on measurements).. Cost him 2500 baht for them and wider than anything on any scooter I have seen...

For waves / spark / x1r / etc theres a full selection of stuff like bridgestone battleax BT39, Dunlop TT900, pirelli city demon etc sports rubber if thats what someone wants. All those fit on a wave / spark / etc. What good sticky rubber comes in 14 inch rim sizes ??

Its like your justifying the PCX and criticising the manuals, based on something the manuals can do far better if you want them to.

Of course Thais tend to like the lower inertia higher acceleration of the bike wheels and skinny tyres, fast off the line and scary in the wet.

About half the Thais here in Pattaya are fine people on the road exercising good judgment. The other 50 % are so brain dead they should be put in a cage. But they aren't about to do that either to protect us or the 50 % of the Thai population that should be protected from the degenerate portion of the population. So, it is up to us to take our driving very seriously. Personally I like the looks of the 150 CBR and as others have said here it's a great traffic threader due to its overall narrowness and light weight. I like the Ninja 250 R. It has brilliant reviews and is reputedly more fun than a barrel full of monkeys. I lke the new 650 Kawasaki at 250,000 baht which is a far cry from the Yamaha T Max at 550,000 baht. All bikes I've mentioned employ a chain and standard gearing. But what I am getting at is this----Who is the king of the hill in Pattaya area driving---not Udon for example because up there I might go with something like a 650 Kawasaki because of its far greater power, still relatively low cost, much greater range than most scooters have, and lastly because of the "fun factor". But here in Pattaya I'm not talking about fun because it's no fun dodging death that keeps looming up in the form of every nitwit that comes anywhere near me. I'm talking survivability as being primary. An automatic allows a man to concentrate 100 percent on his driving and not on his shifting. And believe me I loved shifting all those manual transmission cars and pickups I had in the U.S. starting with MG's, then Volkswagens, then four wheel drive pickup trucks and finally my last two sportscars, both Mazda Miatas. For me putting an automatic in a Miata Sportscar should be punished by boiling the buyer in oil.

A Wave is a nice piece of machinery for what it is. But an automatic gives one better survivability here in Pattaya. And the larger the automatic motorbike the more stable it is. Yes....you can upgrade the tires on a Wave and have a better machine but it's still not going to be in the same league as say a 500 c.c. Yamaha T Max which is designed to cruise comfortably at 70 to 80 miles an hour. The T Max has the frame size, the shocks, the tires, and the horsepower to do it with the driver feeling relatively safe at such speeds. But a T Max is too wide and too heavy to be good at threading traffic around here. And in fact the Honda 125 c.c. Pxi is not going to be as good as my 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance either. Next to my Nouvo Elegance the Honda Pcx in the Jomtien Immigration parking area is very obviously in an entirely new category. Its got a bigger frame. It's got bigger tires. I'm sure it's got better shocks, and a 300 pound guy is going to no doubt like it better than my Nouvo Elegance. And if it had the horsepower I'm sure it could cruise comfortably at 70 miles an hour on a U.S. Interstate whereas the Wave wouldn't no matter what tires you put on it or how much horsepower its got. For that matter my Nouvo Elegance won't do it either because it's just too small. BUT---both on the way to Jomtien Immigration and back the traffic was pretty horrific and at times I found myself slithering way over in the left lane with hardly more space than the width of my handlebars and I found myself even putting my left foot along the curb to my left as I was just barely squeezing by all the baht taxis. I don't think a Honda Pcx would have managed to get through the gaps I squeezed through.

But believe me, when the tires on my Yamaha Elegance get a few thousand more K on them I will be upgrading one size and as you just suggested it's only going to cost 1000 to 2000 baht to do this. I will wind up with an even more stable machine than I already have. Still.......as much as I love my Yamaha Elegance, I'll have to say there is a new king of the hill in the form of the Honda PCX for the guy who wants the best survivability and best utility and most all around comfort and even at 69,000 baht we are only at $2000 U.S. which is less than half what Honda is presently selling its 150 shi for largely due to the high cost of Italian labor. I haven't seen a 150 CBR, Ninjette, Kawasaki ERn, Honda Phantom, Yamaha Spark, Honda Wave that even approaches an Air Blade's Yamaha Nouvo's, Pcx's or Suzuki Hayake's under the seat storage for example.

Not uncommon I find for people to use the money for other purposes. I have had agents and owners using deposits on property and my having to just not pay the rent for the last couple of months to use it up. Only today I received a refund from an airline ticket which theye agent admitted they received on December 1st. On numerous occasions since then they have stalled and once actually said they had made a miscalculation.

I believe all monies are pooled whereas each money should be kept for each contract. I see it with business owners who do not know which is their money and what belongs to the business.

In the OP's case, the Thai would presumably just shrug their shoulders and say "mai pen rai" had he needed to claim when uninsured. Better to go direct to someone you can trust.

The Thai can shrug their shoulders and say "Mai Pen Rai" all they want.

The Random House Webster College dictionary states, "embezzle--to appropriate fraudulently to one's own use as money entrusted to one's care". I entrusted 6800 baht to RAT-asong. In my condo just several days ago she admitted not turning my money in to the company.

As for the policy being dated December 23rd and whether I had been covered or not there are no ifs ands and buts about it, until then I had no coverage. Also, Katrina said to me she could not understand RAT-asong "destroying her own business" and further commented about RAT-asong playing games with her by standing her up for an appointment then going to see me instead--"I can have her put in jail."

Your comment about taking insurance only with someone you trust is the whole reason I've started this poll in the first place. There is a real RAT-asong. She's probably been doing the same thing to others that she's been doing to me. Hopefully all those seeing these posts 1. Will be very careful about who they take their insurance out with while recognizing that at least in my case a fully licensed insurance broker has put herself at risk of doing monkey house time.

Most noteworthy were the "massive tires" on the Honda 125 c.c. PCX. That means greater stability at speed and a smoother ride which I'd think would be very noticeable on speed bumps.

Define 'massive' ??

A donkeys years old cheer I have is running 90/80 17 rear and 80/90 17 front (I think) tyres.. Seen both the same kind and a kind of dual sport (sahara from memory) fitted on a wave..

So massive means bigger than that ??? Or only massive when compared to other autos.. Not when compared to something like a zx130 or spark ??

Whats 'massive' really mean.

Let me be a little more definitive on the subject. By massive I do not mean larger than what an R-1 Yamaha might have. Today's large bikes have for example much larger tires than say my 1985 BMW 100 KS had. And that bike felt very good at 100 miles an hour. But when we compare the tires of a Mio, Click, Honda Wave or Fino to the tires of this new Honda 125 pcx the pcx is in an entirely different league. Compare to my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance stock tires on a Honda Wave appear slender and whimpy. Most Waves have 60's front and rear. My Elegance has a 70 width tire on the front and an 80 in the rear. And when they wear out I'll probably be going to an 80 in the front and 90 in the rear. An Airblade with its smaller diameter 14 inch wheels (compare to a Wave or Nouvo's 16 or 17 inch diameter wheels) typically has an 80 width tire on the front and a 90 in the rear. In fact appearance wise the Air Blade looks more like a motorcycle than a step through and at a dealer where an Air Blade is surrounded by Clicks and Waves its tires appear much more substantial.

According to the specs I've seen the 125 PCX has 90 width tires in the front and 100 in the rear. Width wise the PCX is two sizes larger than my Nouvo which is already making Waves, Finos and the like seem under-tired by comparison. But figures such as these alone don't really get the adjective "massive" across. A T Max might have even larger tires but a T Max is a much larger machine weighing in at around 450 pounds versus the PCX's 275 pounds. Motorbikes are thought of as having bicycle type tires on them. There is nothing bicyclish about the tires on the PCX. My 650 BMW would comfortably cruise all day at 70 to 80 miles an hour. It had the same width front tire as the Honda PCX and so did the Yamaha 350 RD

So the PCX has 90/100 compared to a wave on 80/90 or a 10 year old cheer on 17x 80/90 ??

Thats also a 14x90/100 yeah ?? V a 17 on an 'old' manual.

Hardly the massive selling point your painting it.

Although you will often see Waves in Vietnam with bigger tires every Wave I've seen in a Honda showroom in Thailand has 60 width tires and I wouldn't want my Aunt Bertha riding on such puny tires. I will have to assume that's what the typical Honda Wave owner is buying. Also, the PCX is a much heavier machine so between its being so heavy and having the large tires that it has it's going to be much more stable than a Wave. And when you dig out the specs on the Yamaha Xmax you will find that it's heavier still and has even bigger tires. Now, a Wave is going to be able to get through smaller gaps in the traffic than a PCX or Yamaha Xmax but when it comes to stability both are in a completely different league. Once again however, the Xmax is not available in Thailand.

Most noteworthy were the "massive tires" on the Honda 125 c.c. PCX. That means greater stability at speed and a smoother ride which I'd think would be very noticeable on speed bumps.

Define 'massive' ??

A donkeys years old cheer I have is running 90/80 17 rear and 80/90 17 front (I think) tyres.. Seen both the same kind and a kind of dual sport (sahara from memory) fitted on a wave..

So massive means bigger than that ??? Or only massive when compared to other autos.. Not when compared to something like a zx130 or spark ??

Whats 'massive' really mean.

Let me be a little more definitive on the subject. By massive I do not mean larger than what an R-1 Yamaha might have. Today's large bikes have for example much larger tires than say my 1985 BMW 100 KS had. And that bike felt very good at 100 miles an hour. But when we compare the tires of a Mio, Click, Honda Wave or Fino to the tires of this new Honda 125 pcx the pcx is in an entirely different league. Compare to my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance stock tires on a Honda Wave appear slender and whimpy. Most Waves have 60's front and rear. My Elegance has a 70 width tire on the front and an 80 in the rear. And when they wear out I'll probably be going to an 80 in the front and 90 in the rear. An Airblade with its smaller diameter 14 inch wheels (compare to a Wave or Nouvo's 16 or 17 inch diameter wheels) typically has an 80 width tire on the front and a 90 in the rear. In fact appearance wise the Air Blade looks more like a motorcycle than a step through and at a dealer where an Air Blade is surrounded by Clicks and Waves its tires appear much more substantial.

According to the specs I've seen the 125 PCX has 90 width tires in the front and 100 in the rear. Width wise the PCX is two sizes larger than my Nouvo which is already making Waves, Finos and the like seem under-tired by comparison. But figures such as these alone don't really get the adjective "massive" across. A T Max might have even larger tires but a T Max is a much larger machine weighing in at around 450 pounds versus the PCX's 275 pounds. Motorbikes are thought of as having bicycle type tires on them. There is nothing bicyclish about the tires on the PCX. My 650 BMW would comfortably cruise all day at 70 to 80 miles an hour. It had the same width front tire as the Honda PCX and so did the Yamaha 350 RD

We will call this insurance broker RAT-asong no pun intended. Here's what happened. Two months ago I was in the market for motorbike insurance so I discussed the subject with a German fellow condo owner in my building. I respect this German, and he had also had some experience with a motorbike insurance company here in Pattaya when a Thai motorbike taxi driver careened across two or three lanes of traffic and knocked him off his Phantom near Big C on 2nd Road. His bike was severely damaged and he had his shoulder in a sling for a couple of months. He was ill treated by the insurance company handling his claim so he switched his motorbike insurance coverage to a Thai woman named RAT-asong who he had known for a few years and who had an insurance brokerage license. In the past he had found this woman to be very helpful to him, going out of her way to help him. So my fellow condo owner brought RAT-asong over to my condo and I placed my motorbike insurance with her. However, my friend had also gotten condo insurance from her paying 6800 baht for his policy. I agreed with him---that I really needed this coverage and I told the woman I wanted the same coverage he had taken out.

Several days later I received my motorbike policy, but the policy on my condo was extremely slow in getting to me. By the end of November I was getting pretty alarmed over not yet receiving a policy so for the entire month of December (until today) I've been spending a great deal of time trying to get RAT-asong to bring me my policy. I've had her stand me up for so many appointments, or had to deal with her not returning my calls, etc that I'm going to call this particular month of December the month of RAT-asong. About a week ago I went to the condo office and had the condo manager help me call the Safety Insurance Company LTM to see if there even was a policy in my name. When I didn't get a straight answer to "Am I insured with you or not?" which might have been due to the person on the other end not understanding English very well I rephrased the question to "What is the number of my insurance policy with your company?" The man could not give me a policy number.

In the meantime I had been telling RAT-asong on the phone that I was very concerned that I did not have insurance coverage with the company and that if we had a fire or a water pipe broke that I'd have to pay all expenses myself and not get anything from Safety Insurance Company LTD. RAT-asong told me not to worry because I was covered.

Well...I wasn't covered. Somebody had used my 6800 baht for personal or other purposes. I did have a receipt from Rat-asong and I was able to get a copy of my German friend's policy that had her broker's number on it, her full name, etc. And I took all of that to a Thai lawyer named Katrina who has an office once block from Tuk Com.

Two days ago there was a knock on my door and when I answered it there was RAT-asong. I let her in thinking that Katrina had pressured her into finally begging someone to lend her the money to get me the policy i had already had paid her for because by this time I felt that Rat-asong must have had some financial problems and might have used my premium to take care of personal problems.

RAT-asong then tried to sell me a new policy with an American company doing business in THailand. This policy was considerably cheaper, costing just 2800 baht whereas the policy I had already paid for cost 6800 baht. However, if I had a fire or water damage due to a pipe breaking in my condo the policy would only be good for 50,000 baht. Besides, I knew that if I agreed to a new policy RAT-asong could keep playing her games for another month or two. I told her I wanted the policy I had already paid for from Safety Insurance Company Limited.

Today, hurrah......the month of RAT-asong ended. Turns out RAT-asong made an appointment with Katrina two days ago for 8:30 a.m. but as she had done to me many times before she stood Katrina up. Then she came over to my condo to try and sell me the inferior policy. After that she called Katrina and told her she had met with me. Which as one might suspect angered Katrina considerably as she might have felt she had spent time putting pressure on RAT-asong who I then secretly met with to avoid paying her legal fee. Yesterday I went to Katrina's office where I also had her doing a slight modification to a will she had done for me about a year ago. I paid her for that, plus 1000 baht for her fee getting my insurance policy instated. And this morning I went to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital where I one of Katrina's employees. This woman had just come back from Safety Insurance Company Ltd. which turned out to have an office close to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital where she had gotten the policy from the manager. In Katrina's office I wrote a short note asking the manager to release my policy to Katrina's employee.

The policy is dated December 23, 2009. The question is who was using my 6800 baht this past two months, RAT-asong or somebody else? And of course with the policy having yesterday's date on it I never had coverage in the first place but I sure had to pay for it. And as for Katrina.......that 1000 baht I paid her was well earned. I most definitely recommend her services to anyone needing a good lawyer here in Pattaya. The score reads something like 30 days Jack trying to get RAT-asong to deliver insurance policy, Katrina just 3 days.

After parking my 135 c.c. Yamaha Elegance next to a spanking brand new Honda 125 PCX I have to give the PCX a big thumbs up. A Honda Wave 125 looks rather puny next to my Elegance. And my Yamaha Elegance looked small next to the Honda PCXi. Most noteworthy were the "massive tires" on the Honda 125 c.c. PCX. That means greater stability at speed and a smoother ride which I'd think would be very noticeable on speed bumps.

Then later this afternoon I stopped at the local Honda dealer and talked to the owner or manager there. He had several PCX's in for the first time. He also had a rather thick book on the PCX that I found to be very interesting. I think I've said this before but the fuel capacity of the new Honda PcX is around 6.2 liters compared to the Air Blades 4 liters and the Nouvo Elegance's 4,8 liters. With the PCX's fuel injection and shut off system at stop lights with this 29 % greater fuel capacity I'd think the new PCX will considerably out range my Yamaha Nouvo.

As far as horsepower is concerned the Elegance does have 11.2 horsepower a figure that's spelled out all over the Internet. Somewhere I read 14 horsepower for the 125 c.c Honda PCX but I've never found that figure again. For that matter, never, not once have I ever seen horsepower figures for either the Honda Airblade or the Suzuki Hayake whereas the horsepower figure of 8.9 could be found everywhere for the Yamaha Nouvo 115 c.c. MX which preceded the 135 c.c. Elegance. Considering that the Yamaha 125 c.c. fuel injected XMax that is sold elsewhere but not in Thailand...at least not yet, produces 13.89 horsepower I'd say that 14 might very well be the figure for the new Honda 125 PCX.

If I remember correctly the dealer told me the Honda 125 PCX weighs 127 kilos. That's 16 kilos or 35 pounds more than a Yamaha 135 c.c. Elegance. At the dealership there were two 150 c.c. CBR's. The 125 c.c. pcx tires seemed more massive than the CBR's but this might be due to an optical illusion due to the CBR's larger diameter tires (17 inch versus 14 for the PCX).

Here's an interesting specification in that book which was the dealer's only copy and it was all in Thai. So I had one of the gals explain it to me. There was a diagram showing a Nouvo 135 and a Honda PCX that obviously was showing performance data of one kind or another. Anyway, the Pcx had traveled a certain distance down this graph in x number of seconds. In this time it had traveled 20 meters. In that same number of seconds the Nouvo Elegance was lagging behind slightly traveling only 19.38 meters. This indicates an acceleration advantage of the PCX over the Yamaha Nouvo 135 c.c Elegance of 3 % in that given speed range, call it zero to 20 meters.

I imagine this new Honda PCX 125 is one stable smooth riding machine which is an altogether different animal than a Honda Wave, Click or Yamaha Fino. Its not going to be a speed demon and no interstate cruiser for countries such as the U.S. but I think it's got the tires and weight to offer motorcycle levels of performance. Not giving up my Elegance just yet but I think we've got a new king here, but we can expect that Yamaha is not going to sit idle. Expect it to be a real winner too.

Make no mistake....Honda are still leading the motorbike world in development of new models.

Their new 2010 V series of VFR bikes are streets ahead of anything the other manufacturers currently have.

Currently they put out a V5 and V4......Im waiting for a V3 (400 - 500cc?) or V2 (250 - 350cc)

Features include frameless chassis.....everything is hung off the motor. Electronic gearshift....button on the grip many more revolutionary features.....

Sadly, I think never available in Thailand.

No doubt it's one helluva bike. Here's a link to one of them in the Honda web site. VFR Sport at $15999

So what else can I buy for the same money? How about a 2007 Miata sportscar for $15988 with only 22,000 miles on it. I've had two Mazda Miata sportscars and have found that if you don't put Superchargers on them they will run forever. These things now put out 170 horsepower stock and run zero to sixty in about 7 seconds. I've personally put 1000 miles a day on them in total comfort and the only thing that will handle with them is a Porsche. Besides even if they were offered in Thailand at considerably more than $16,000 due to the taxes I'll bet my Nouvo will run rings around it in heavy city traffic.

My first bike at 16 was a Honda CB 350. I loved it!

So let's see, what can you get in the U.S. that is even remotely comparable to the Honda CB 350---a 250 Rebel twin with its 17 horsepower and less than 75 miles an hour top speed? Honda used to be progressive. That's why we loved bikes such as the CB 350. Only thing that put me off from buying the Yamaha 350 RD was it was a two stroke that would only get 30 to 35 miles per gallon. But the bike drove like a roller skate. In fact it drove so good I can still feel what it was like accelerating away on one forty years later. The CB 350 turned out to be a terrific choice however.