jackcorbett

The one thing that puts me off of the Yamahas is the lack of fuel injection. Wake up Yamaha, this is 2009?! I guess they'll have to add it soon, as mentioned somewhere in this forum, and that will make the Fino better.

Regarding the Fino - I also think it was a stroke of genius to put out, and I've always thought it was far and away the best looking scooter. Rented them many times and like the feel too, I prefer it to other autos I have tried.

But just like Honda is sitting on their butts for long periods of time, so is Yamaha. Last year's Fino colors were downright awful - how can you mess up such a nice design like this? It's like they were just waiting for the Scoopy to kill them. Scoopy isn't as nicely designed though - there is something about the Fino that's hard to describe - it's just a really perfect design. If Yamaha was smart, they'd offer more colors and styles, and get into the aftermarket mod scene big time. I feel like they owned this market for years and years, and did nothing with it.

I think all of these Japanese motorcycle companies have their heads up their as**es, (But I still love my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance). Here's my theory. It is a fundamental marketing assumption to find out what prospective customers really want and to deliver that. I really believe most potential motorcycle customers looking for something bigger and more capable on the highway than a scooter really want a middleweight that offers a good comfortable upright riding position, good handling and good power for the task at hand at a modest price. Back in 1973 my Honda 350 CB offered all of this in spades. And today on Thailand's roads I is still going to run rings around any "reasonably priced mounts". Example in point--a CBR 150 at 60,000 baht, a Honda Phantom at around 80,000 baht or even a Ninja 250 R at around 140,000 baht. The 350 had 36 horsepower. The Ninja 250 delivers around 33 but it takes very high rpms to do it. And the seating position of the Honda 350 CB was better. The 450 Honda when it came out would roughly match the British 650's for higher speed driving, say on interstates and it wasn't that much more expensive than the 350 but it was not quite as agile. Meanwhile Yamaha had its 350 RD which had about 39 horsepower and that thing would run away from both a Ninja 250 or a Honda 350 CB. But it was very comfortable. Its drawback is it was a 2 stroke. Back then the Honda 350 cost around $1000 with the Yamaha being sold at about the same price.

But I think companies such as Honda and Yamaha decided that although such bikes were what their customers really needed and wanted they couldn't make a lot of money selling them due to modest profit margins on such relatively inexpensive machinery. So they sought out to artificially create demand for much higher profit margin motorcycles. And they apparently have so far been pretty successful at selling the idea that you really need 4 cylinders with at least 1000 cc's or that anything that doesn't look like a crotch rocket is not a good performer, that anything less than a Honda Goldwing won't stand up to across country cruising day in and day out or that Harley's and V twin Harley look a likes spelled real power and that real men rode that kind of bike.

As far as Yamaha missing the boat on its coloring schemes, I think both Honda and Yamaha have been pretty inept here. Example in point, when Honda came out with its Airblade and Honda Click the colors initially offered certainly were not inspirational. It took Honda nearly a year to come out with an Air Blade in that Phoenix red for example. And as for Yamaha although it was offering some decent colors in its 115 c.c. MX Nouvo's when it first came out with its Nouvo Elegance every color scheme offered was God Awful. Red rear shock springs on a bike that was essentially black? Ouch! And this first series of Elegances had all that large hideous lettering across the sides. But Yamaha just as Honda had with its Clicks and Air Blades finally wised up. I think the new color schemes for the Elegance are as different from the old ones as night and day.

As for the Fino, I'm seeing them all over the place. Without question Yamaha came out with a huge hit here. But most of the color schemes now offered are not very attractive in my opinion. My ex girlfriend's bright red Fino, now that was something. So Yamaha has taken a good thing here and made it less than what it once was. On the other hand, when I go into my condo parking lot and look at all the motor bikes there very few of them have tasteful coloring. Most are atrocious regardless of what company manufactured them.

As for the lack of fuel injection on the present Nouvo Elegance, it does offer fuel injection on its manual transmission 135 c.c. Sparks and in fact after Honda brought out water cooling in its Air Blade and Click Yamaha came out with water cooling and 135 c.c. engine in its Spark long before it brought both out in its Nouvo Elegance. And someone brought up here that Yamaha will soon bring out a fuel injected 125 c.c. bike (is it called the XMax?) to directly compete against Honda's new 125 c.c. Pxi. Well I looked up the X max and I found a whole lot of listings for it. It has about 13.9 horsepower to the Nouvo Elegance's 11.2 even though it has 10 fewer c'c's. It has a much larger fuel tank as well----holding more than 3 gallons making it more capable of longer rides in areas where gas stations are not so plentiful. Apparently it's been offering this bike for a couple of years. Yamaha X Max and More on the X Max It's just not been offering it in Thailand.

Meanwhile in other parts of the world Honda has been offering what seems to be a terrific 300 c.c. scooter style motorbike. And lately it has been gouging U.S. customers with a $4500 price tag for its 150 SHi scooter. Like the 300 SH i it's being made in Italy where I suspect the labor is much higher than it is in such countries as Thailand.

As of now, the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance offers TBS, something called Throttle Body Sensor in the carburetor. The Yamaha air cooled MX did not. This is supposed to offer more efficient fuel delivery. I'm wondering why Yamaha offers it in the Elegance, how much of an improvement it makes, etc. But one thing you can be sure of---I paid 53,000 baht for the Yamaha Nouvo MX three years before I bought my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance for 52,000 baht---1000 baht less and believe me, the new 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance is one helluva lot more machine than its predecessor in nearly every meaningful aspect. So it could be this new carburetion sensing system offers many benefits fuel injection offers at a huge cost savings. But be sure, both Yamaha and Honda now have the technology to deliver to everyone of us some terrific automatic step throughs that will do just about anything we can ask of them.

Now, in larger bikes more capable of cruising the highways, particularly in countries such as the U.S. why can't both Honda and Yamaha offer something as capable as the Honda CB 350, CB 450 or Yamaha 350 RD did nearly forty years ago at reasonable prices? The fact that they haven't been willing to do so and it takes a smaller company that enjoys far inferior worldwide sales as kawasaki has done with its 650 ERn to show them how it's done speaks volumes.

Fire away boys, pro or con. As for Yamaha having faulty design, you know how Honda has that motor shut off setup on their Clicks and Air Blades so if you have the kickstand down the motor automatically shuts down. Well, you should have seen this Click a pal of mine was renting. He limped into our condo building parking lot on the Click aided by a couple of his buddies. They looked after him while I looked after the bike and it took over ten minutes for me to shut the machine down. The area underneath the instrument panel had been pushed in during the accident and kept wrestling around down there to get a grip on the key. The kickstand shut off failed completely. I knew if I put the kickstand down the engine would shut off. I mean you can go to a 7-11 and want the engine to run for just one minute while you use your card to get money but the Honda shut off will work every time you put the kick stand down. But not after this accident. Well, I worked pretty hard getting that Honda Click engine to shut off.

You will find that throughout my posts I've been pretty consistent with my advice to those wanting to know which motorbike to choose when I recommend either the top of the line Yamaha automatic (the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance) or the Honda 125 Pxi if one's driving is primarily in the city. That of course leaves out the smaller bikes such as the Yamaha Mio, Fino or Honda Click. Just to show that I'm not prejudiced here's a picture of a bright red Yamaha Fino I bought a now ex girlfriend (who I've cut out of this picture) several years ago. I will admit that I enjoyed driving this Fino very much.

I viewed it at the time as just about the prettiest thing on wheels and when this girlfriend and I drove it to a bar that's about 1 mile from my condo I'd often sit there drinking my beer studying this Fino parked across the street and thinking what a stroke of genius it was for Yamaha to have designed the Fino in the first place. Basically it's a very finely executed replica of an Italian Vespa with Japanese reliability and a very low price tag. Its sculptured lines are just magnificent.

But for an all around machine that will do it all in a city environment such as Pattaya, such as occasionally having three people on board and meaningful under the seat storage and greater stability at higher speeds one really needs something like a Yamaha Nouvo or Honda Air Blade. Now here's why I think Yamaha is the top choice.

Back in the U.S. I have owned two Honda cars and four Honda motorcycles do don't think that I'm prejudiced against Honda. But....at least here in Thailand both Honda and Suzuki are playing catchup when it comes to automatic motorcyles. People have asked about the Suzuki Hayate. Well, a fellow condo owner bought one and when I took his new bike for a test spin all I could think of was that it was a cheap copy of the Yamaha Nouvo 115 c.c. MX I owned then. Sure it had 125 c.c's but I really couldn't tell any power difference whatsoever. The tire configuration of the two bikes was exactly the same. The style was the exact same. In fact, Suzuki had the same two little compartments large enough to hold a pair of sunglasses or gloves inside the front cowling of the bike that my Nouvo had. The under the seat storage seemed identical both in size and shape. I'm not saying the Hayake is a bad machine. However the word COPY CAT kept screaming at me from inside my head.

How long did it take Honda to wake up and realize that Yamaha's automatics were were doing quite well in Thailand which prompted Honda to then start marketing here the Air Blade and the Click? Two years? And there is no question that Yamaha's been quite successful with its Italian retro Fino's and that once again Honda woke up after a two year slumber and introduced its Scoopy. However......people's tastes will differ on style just as they will when it comes to music, literature and a whole lot of things. For me, the Fino's got it. It's got the sensational sexy Italian lines that make it a thing of beauty. The Scoopy at least for me, just doesn't cut muster.

For some reason here in Thailand Yamaha has so far ignored that segment of the market that is already being filled by such machines as Honda's 150 CBR, Kawasaki's Ninja 250 R, and the Kawasaki 650 ERn. Honda is now rumored to soon introduce a new 250 c.c. V twin, a machine that has already been selling well in Japan for a few years already. It looks to be a terrific machine for what it is. My point is once again Honda's been caught napping. Kawasaki will have had the little Ninja out for a couple of years by the time Honda comes out with anything competitive. The little Ninja's basically a 140,000 baht machine versus the much larger Ern at around 240,000 baht.

So when it comes to the automatics I'd have to go with Yamaha for being by far the most innovative company in this market segment. If I lived out in the boonies where I'd have a lot of two lane highways to drive on and much less city driving I'd have to go with one of the two Kawasaki machines provided that I did not have to go too far for good service. But as fine a company as Honda is, I dont like complacent fat cat companies that sit on their butts while relying upon their past reputations.

I really recommend that you obtain a Thai driver's license. First, to give you just one example, several of us took our girlfriends to the zoo in Siricha (not the Tiger zoo but a much larger one). I got my girlfriend and myself in for just 150 baht whereas one of my friends, a Norwegian, had to pay 300 baht just for himself. In the past several months it was the same thing---at Nong Nooch Tropical Garden, at the Crocodile Farm and at Underwater World, I got the Thai price instead of having to pay the tourist price. Two years ago in Chiang Mai three or four times another Norwegian pal had to pay full price while my Thai girlfriend and I both got the Thai price. Twice going to Koh Samet when the police met us as soon as we got ashore I paid just 40 baht instead of the tourist price which is several hundred baht. When I'm stopped by the police for routine checks they smile at me and send me immediately on my way as soon as they see the Thai driver's license. When I was in Krabi and rented a motorbike at Ao Nang Beach and was asked for my passport I simply gave the place my Thai driver's license. Back to the police though, I think it's just basic human nature that they are going to be much more receptive to a person who can prove by his having a Thai driver's license that he respects the country's laws and is trying his best to go the extra mile. In worse case scenarios if one is in the wrong place at the wrong time, say at a Disco going through a drug bust, one's going to be sent on his way faster if he can produce a driver's license than if he didn't have one to start with.

I weight 76-77 kilos and my gf weighs 42 kilos. Roughly speaking when I'm driving my Nouvo Elegance with her behind me I feel like I've got at least the same acceleration I had driving my old Yamaha Nouvo MX with no passenger at all. This is no 100 mph bike by any means, and it's not an interstate highway cruiser either. However, in all situations throughout the entire Pattaya area it's got loads of power. With only myself on board it flies, and it handles like a dream. As far as I'm concerned when I took at what various bikes cost in the U.S. starting with the Honda 150 SHi at $4500 the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance at 52000 baht is a modern miracle. That's just $1600 U.S. Cost for most of us is not an issue and in fact it's a complete joke. THese things are about as maintenance free as machinery can possibly get

I also think Yamaha has just got a "superior engine here" in that water cooled 135 c.c. engine. It performs a lot better than what you might expect out of 135 c.c.'s. When I think back on my Honda 185 c.c. XL on/off road I'd rate the two as being about comparable. So much for the so called "inferiority" of the Elegance's automatic. I am reminded of an old tractor I once had, an International 856 that had 407cubic inches that originally came out in the 1960's at 100 horsepower. But we'd all soup them up to produce around 125 horsepower. My neighbor swore by this tractor. One of his tractors was a much larger International that came out later on. Had a cab and the whole nine yards and produced 165 horsepower stock. But you could take two wagons out on the road and pull away with both of them loaded with corn in high gear with that old tractor but you wouldn't come close with the much larger theoretically more powerful tractor. In fact I think my "much despise by many" Nouvo Elegance automatic would have pulled away from my old Honda 185 c.c. manual on off road bike and stayed ahead of it until at least 40 miles an hour.

No, you are wrong, I have not made any decision on my next scooter. A powercomaprison in PCX favor could make me pay the 15-18k extra.

Trust me, you'll save the 15-18k

But since I have downsized my big bike to Ninja650, which is more a day to day riding bike than my 1800cc V-twin, I ll actuall have a look at the Suz Skydrive 125 injection as my local runaround. I already have a 125 Step here and its faster off the line than Yammy E 135.

Well I downsized from a Fireblade 954 so the speed of a 125 hardly does it for me either, however the PCX satisfies in other ways. If being fastest away from the lights is what excites you stick with the Step or Yammy 135 and save a few bucks.

What I like about the 125 PCXi is it has big tires which is what separates such bikes from cheaper motorbikes with their much skinnier tires and considerably less roadworthiness because of it. I liked the looks of the Air Blade with its fat tires. It looked much more like a real motorcycle than lesser machines next to it at the dealer's. It has 80 width tires in the front and 90's in the rear. The new PCXi goes it one better. Looking at a brochure now. Its tire specs read front---90/90-14 M/C 46 P. Rear 100/90-14 M/C 57 P. So you can get a 100 width rear tire. My 135 c.c. Elegance has a 70 width front tire and 80 in the rear and I'll be doing to a 90 rear tire when I change them and probably an 80 in front as I can go with either 70 or 80 front and 80/90 rear. However I have a 16 inch diameter wheel compared to the Honda's smaller 14 inch diameter for either the Air Blade or PCXi.

I think what we are seeing here is a convergence where the top of the line automatic motorbikes are starting to offer handling and stability more on a par with what larger motorcycles offer while offering all the advantages of a scooter. And if that gives me a better ride, better handling and a greater margin of safety I'll go with either a top of the line Honda, now the PCXi or the Yamaha 135 c.c. Elegance. Here's what I'm talking about. Check this out 1985 BMW K-100 RS The BMW has only a 100 width tire in front and a 130 width for the rear tire. In the picture note the tires are not nearly as humongorous as a lot of bikes I'm seeing in Pattaya now. But that bike felt awfully good at 100 miles an hour plus.

hey Jack

I think you forgot the most important difference between Nouvo MX and Elegance. The wheelbase. The swingarm and autobox and therefor the wheelbase is 14cm (almost 6 inches) longer. Makes hel_l of a difference.

Nouvo until 2005, Nouvo MX until now and Nouvo Elegance are 3 different machines. Not only enginewise.

The Nouvo MX parked next to mine had its steering fork locked so I could not straighten its wheels. But I tried the best that I could and I could determine no difference between the two motorbike's wheelbases. However, Wikipedia shows a 10 millimeter difference Wikipedia stats in favor of the Nouvo Elegance. That's less than half an inch.

And 135 c'c's trumps 125 cc's any day.

Not when an auto drive train can take as much as 25% power loss.

If they would just make a spark with good under seat storage.

Some time ago I did a little reading on the web about the new automatic transmission technology, and from what I gleaned there is not as much drive train loss as there is with more traditional automatic transmission setups. In fact I always had stick shifts, on my cars and on my pickup trucks at the farm. My last pickup truck had a 318 V-8 with a five speed automatic overdrive transmission. Now I'm telling you this, we put these pickup trucks through the paces. Oftentimes we'd hook up to two 300 bushel plus wagons loaded with corn and pull them out of the field. Now, a bushel of corn weighs 56 pounds so that's at 600 bushels over 33,000 pounds of corn we were hauling out of the field and that does not include the weight of the two wagons. We often got the wagons stuck in the mud and when we tried to get them unstuck we'd burn out a few clutches over the years. I only had one automatic but I never burnt out the clutch. The automatics withstood the abuse better than the manual transmissions. Also, that 318 small block V-8 got up to 110 miles an hour on a four wheel drive pickup (4 wheel drives weighed a few hundred pounds more than 2 wheel drives) and my pickup truck was still accelerating when I backed it off. That truck was a 1997 model. My first pickup truck was a three quarter ton manual transmission model sans four wheel drive. I'd say the two trucks weighed about the same. But that first truck was a 1978 model. Had the same 318 V-8 small block engine though. But it was a real dog. I'd say the automatic even beat it on fuel economy and it certainly would outrun it. Far as maintenance, no contest with the auto emerging as the clear winner.

So I don't get this 25 % power train loss. Sure, I'd never have one of my Miata's equipped with an automatic. That being said the automatic pickup trucks were just about as powerful and fast as a manual tranmission model. Might get a tad b better fuel economy, though. And CVT technology is more efficient than the traditional automatics. I also want to mention that down on the farm we did a lot of grass mowing and I'm talking miles of it. The cat's meow for yard work would be a Grasshopper or Woods mower with a CVT. Considering that the ability to get through the tallest grass possible was a factor, we would have been using manual transmission mowers if we were experiencing 25 % power train loss. Instead we'd steer with two light weight steering arms. Push them far forward and the mower would travel at maximum speed. Pull them all the way back and you'd go in reverse. Once we experienced mowers such as these we never wanted to go back to manual transmission models.

Taking my tape downstairs right now. I mean what can I say? I drove a 115 c.c. MX for three years and it seemed to be all I needed. But now that I have the Elegance it seems like so much more machine, and at the same price. I'd say my MX rode better than an Air Blade but the Air Blade took turns better and had better brakes. Now I've got at least as much straight line stability as I ever had driving my MX with quicker and more precise steering along with about 25 % more horsepower. Engine being water cooled is much quieter. I think Yamaha's constantly improving their machines while the other companies play copy cat. Longer wheelbase means better ride, more straight line stability while the forward positioning of the seat and its increased height provides quicker more responsive steering with no stability penalties to pay. And 135 c'c's trumps 125 cc's any day.

Here's the real story. Look up whatever statistics you want. These are two Yamaha Nouvos side by side. The one on the right is the old model 115 c.c. air cooled MX. The one on the right is my Yamaha water cooked 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance. Mine measures an inch or two taller than the other and according to Wikipedia the difference in seat height is about one inch. Are my eyes deceiving me? I repositioned the two bikes.

Okay.....I said the seat is not only taller, it's also at least 2 inches closer to the front wheel. Note the small gap in the Elegance picture between the front part of the seat and the inside of the cowling.

Now, for my last image. Which is the more stable machine, the 125 c.c. Honda Wave on the left or my Yamaha Elegance on the right? First off the Wave now has 17 inch tires which is why this one sits as tall as my Elegance. But note how spindly the overall appearance is of this Wave. The tires are skinny. There's just not as much bike there. Chassis is not as stout. no luggage room underneath the seat, etc. And the seat is not nearly as comfortable.

Okay.......Look at the numbers as being one inch or two inches different, etc. but I think I've amply demonstrated with these pictures that the present Nouvo Elegance is simply more bike. It handles better because Yamaha designed it to handle better. It is larger, it is stronger and it has the largest displacement in its class. An inch here or a pound there can make a huge difference in performance and the feel of the machine and i'll provide just one more example of that. If I am swimming and I lay back on my back or rest on my stomach I'll float provided I have some air in my lungs but as soon as i start expelling the air in my lungs I'll sink to the bottom. Now I'm not talking a lot of air here--just a bit. That's the kind of performance differences one sees with what seems to be a small difference here and there. We are talking night and day differences. What this means is the Nouvo Elegance is the reigning King in its class...unless the new Honda PCXi takes the title away for the time being. But the Air Blade, the Suzuki Hayate, the Suzuki Sky Dream, the Honda Click, Yamaha Fino and Mio just simply don't measure up and if you don't believe the tale of the tape, then believe these pictures.

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

I just compared the dimensions on Suzuki's Vietnam website (only one I could find in English) and there is hardly any difference between the Skydrive and Hayate, maybe 10mm at most, is it really that noticeable? It is almost exactly the same size as my current airblade which is fine even though I'm 190cm and 87kg and I think the extra 15cc of the skydrive plus its fuel injection will give it more power.

airblade is not fine for my 179 cm. legroom lacking, compared to Yammy Elegance

Suzuki has powerful 125 aircooled engines and efficient autos. some of them sometimes even faster than yammy E 135cc. But make sure you get an injection model cause they still have some carb models in stock

10 mm difference in wheelbase is different. handles better.

As I said here before, the Nouvo Elegance's seat is 2 inches higher than the old model's, plus this same seat is 2 inches closer to the front wheel. Some will say, "what's two inches?" Well, it makes a huge difference in the handling. The Elegance turns more quickly than the old model and it turns more precisely. What seems like small differences to some makes a huge difference when it comes to overall performance. That's why companies such as Mazda insist on retaining a perfect 50-50 weight distribution front and rear and when it comes to its Miata sportscar in spite of horsepower going up nearly 60 % through the years and the weight of the car going up several hundred pounds, Mazda has insisted on such engineering perfection. I'm sure Yamaha knew what it was doing by changing the measurements just 2 inches the same way Mazda did and this was no accident. The old machine was not a bad handler, but the new one is hugely improved.

I believe it does. Pretty sure in fact. At this point, of the three the Yamaha Nouvo is the only one without fuel injection. I drove a Hayate one time. Looked just about identical to a Yamaha Nouvo.

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

For the few km's I do in town I am totally satisfied with my new Scoopy. And it uses much less gas than my previous Airblade (probably due to fuel injection). Besides this it is quite fast on Sukhumvit.

I have noticed in Scoopy's I've seen on show room floors that they have significantly larger tires than many other models...eg. Mios and Finos. That is a big plus. I also noticed a Russian neighbor of mine has larger than stock tires on his Mio. Smart Russian. And when I took my Nouvo Elegance into the shop for service I noticed a Nouvo MX with pathetic undersized tires. Whoever it was took the original stock tires off, perhaps once they wore out and put the skimpy tires on to get better gas mileage. Whoever it was, was not smart in my book. And when i get more miles on my Nouvo Elegance i'm thinking of moving up a tire size.

In Chiang Mai, a few dealers have one black/brown Honda PCX as a display model, priced at 74,000.-.

Of course strictly no test drive, and not even a chance to start the engine.

At least, I could sit on the scooter and found the sitting position not really suitable for someone 6'2 (186cm) and long legs. Due to the contoured seat with integrated back rest, it is not possible to move back any further, and so the space between my knees and the handle bar is only about 2 inches when strait, but touches my knees when the handle bar is turned.

Looking at the specifications, the dry weight is stated as 135 KG. That is a lot for a scooter driven by a 125cc engine. A Honda Scoopy weights only 96 KG.

While nobody seems to know the power output of the PCX, it has the same engine used in the Honda SH125i sold abroad, that has 14 Horse Power at 9000 RPM, so the weight / power ratio would be about the same as the 110cc Honda Scoopy with 9.5 Horse Power and 96 KG, about 10KG / 1 HP

So, hopefully, there will be a chance to test drive the PCX here in Chiang Mai, but right now, for my body size, and considering the high price, high weight and small engine, I would perhaps go for another scooter.

There is a serious flaw in your figures that drive you to the wrong conclusion. First off, one doesn't go around comparing the performance of cars or motorcycles using remote control without a passenger or driver on board. I weigh 76 kilos on a good day. Add my 76 kilos to the 96 kilograms of the Snoopy and you get 172 kilograms total weight that 9.5 horsepower has to haul around. Divide 172 by 9.5 and you get 18.1. Now, assuming the 125 c.c. PCXI has 14 horsepower, I add the weight of this bike of 135 kg to my weight of 76 kilograms and we have 211 kilos this larger bike has to haul around. Divide the 211 kilos by 14 horsepower and you get 15.07 kilograms per horsepower. That's about 3 kilograms per horsepower less so you divide that by 15.07 and you have a 20 % superior power to weight ratio in favor of the new PCXI.

But most of the time I'm not driving solo. I have my 43 kilo Thai girlfriend onboard more than 90 % of the time. The figures now are ...for the Scoopy......76 + 43 + 96=215 dividing by 9.5 horsepower gives you 22.63. For the PCXi it's 76 + 43 + 135=254. Divide that by 14 horsepower gives you 18.1 which is the identical kilograms per horsepower one has driving solo on the Snoopy. So you accelerate just as fast with your girlfriend riding behind you on the PCXI as you do going alone on the Snoopy. Now that's a pretty meaningful difference. It comes out to a 25 % performance edge to the PCXi riding two up. But for a Westerner I'm a light weight and my gf is possibly smaller than the average Thai woman so that 25 % edge for the PCXi will become greater as the weight of driver and passenger increases.

And you have much bigger tires on the PCXi and a far superior shock absorber system. It's one helluva lot more bike. And so is the 135 c.c.Yamaha Nouvo Elegance for that matter. My advice to practically anyone wanting to buy a motorbike-scooter type machine is to 1. Get an automatic (not a Wave style manual) and 2. Get the largest automatic you can short of something like a 550,000 baht T Max. This means either the Honda PCXi or the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. You get far more comfortable seating (for most people), a heavier duty chassis, much better shock absorbing system, more power (in most cases), greater under the seat capacity for groceries and the like, and bigger wheels and tires which by themselves can mean the difference between life and death.

No clue as to the horsepower of the Honda 125 c.c. PXI and I want to know the answer. But not to worry no one at the dealerships seems to know either. I went to three dealerships today. I started at Mityan at 3rd Road and Pattaya Thai and sure enough they had two Honda 125 PXI's in the back so I got my first look at them. First off, a Westerner came up to the sales girl and me and asked just what you are asking--"What is the power?" which is exactly what I asked her. She didn't know so the second time she got the same question she went back to ask her higher ups the answer, then she came back and said, "We don't know what the power is." Well, she didn't know what the fuel capacity of the tank was either so I told her that it had a 6.2 liter tank, up from the four liter tank of the Air Blade and nearly 50 % more than the Nouvo Elegance as well which has a 4.8 liter tank. Well, if you think this is bad, wait till you hear what brought me to the three dealerships.

Yesterday I had been at Lotus where there was a Yamaha exhibit. They had my favorite color, red so when I was looking at the machine a woman representing whatever dealership had the display came up to me and told me the 135 c.c. red Elegance I was looking at had fuel injection. I asked her for a brochure and she said they didn't have any. Then she pointed at a little portion of the paint detailing and told me that stood for fuel injection. Well, I thought right off that was a pile of horseshit and when I got back to my own 135 c.c. Elegance I checked and saw that my bike had the same paint detailing that according to this woman stood for fuel injection.

Okay...here's the good news. The Honda PXI 135 is currently selling for 69,000 baht, not 80,000. I'm thinking that as the first and 2nd Pcxi's hit various dealerships those dealers stuck the price way up to 80,000 baht based on supply and demand. Yeah.....they were in short supply so we'll just clobber the guys who are too anxious to purchase the latest and greatest at whatever price. Not good business tactics. The guys buying in at such ridiculous prices will know they've been screwed and are not likely to come back, to either the short sighted dealership or to Honda. So I expect this 69,000 baht figure will start to go down as more and more PCX i's hit the showrooms. I liked the bike. First off, I had read from a brochure at the Honda dealership here in Naklua that this bike would have a 6.2 liter fuel tank. Hey...that's a great improvement because assuming the fuel injected 110 c.c. Air blade and the 125 c.c. PCXi both get the same fuel economy this means you will fill up your fuel tank 50 % fewer times. This also means a much greater margin of safety if you are out cruising in the boonies where gas stations are few and far between.

The luggage compartment underneath the seat seem to have at least as much room as the Air Blade did. But still another improvement is the tire size. They seemed massive for a motorbike. Most Waves i've seen have a 60 in front. My Nouvo has a 70 in front and an 80 in the back. Air Blades seem much more motorcycish than Waves and practically anything else. unlike the Nouvo with its 16 inch diameter wheels the Air Blade has a 14 inch tire but the front tire is pretty fat. It's an 80 and the rear tire is a 90. In comparison the spindly tires of the Wave the way most of them come equipped seems a very wimpy 60. But.....you can easily opt for a bigger tire as many Waves in Vietnam had fatter tires than I'm used to seeing around here. Those PCXi's I was looking at must have had 100's in the rear and 90's in the front. The machine looked like a rear motorcycle except for the fact one does not have to straddle the gas tank.

Then I went to my dealer where I had purchased not one but three motorbikes. This is Watchara Marine at Pattaya Klang and Sukamvit Roads. Service was working but the dealership had been gutted. Once again I got exemplary service. The mechanic who serviced my bike the last time got right on my bike and I was out of there in about twenty minutes or so. He changed the transmission fluid and the oil, adjusted the brakes, blew out the air filter etc and I started thinking as he was doing all that. Most places renting out bikes won't be this scrupulous about service and a lot of owners won't be either and that's why some automatics start to make funny noises and get problems. I asked the mechanic about my drive belt and he said I should have it looked at every 7000 kilometers or so and to have it replaced at 20,000 kilometers. I think that unless one gets a lemon and observes these maintenance precautions one's going to wind up getting a new belt every 20,000 kilometers for a pittance, but he might well trade bikes long before that happens.

I then noticed an older model Nouvo MX sitting next to mine. The owner had retrovitted skinny tires on it. They were 60's in front and I feel the driver is Thai and he's out to maximize his fuel economy. So I then decided to go to the new Watchara Marine dealership which is the East side of Sukamit opposite Lotus at Threppasit Road. This is where I will be getting my bike serviced from now on as Watchara Marine is no longer doing business at its old location I had just come from. This new location is quite large, about the same size as Mityan's. Not only did it have a full line up of Yamaha's including an R-1, a T Max and an R-6--it also had boats, Yamaha motorboat engines and a number of Wave Runners.

I went back with one of the salesmen to the parts department to inquire about my getting bigger tires. Won't cost more than about 1300 baht to upgrade both of my tires to an 80 front tire and 90 in the rear. This should give me a little better ride and better road adhesion because I'll have more rubber on the road, but I'm sure my fuel economy will be hurt a little.

But here's the biggest news. According to this dealership there is to be no fuel injection for the Nouvo Elegance "this year". But the Mio and possibly the Fino will be getting fuel injection. The Spark's already got it. So the woman at Lotus was as I suspected completely ignorant about the products she was selling. So apparently Yamaha is pretty happy with the carburetor setup in its present Yamaha Nouvo Elegance models. at least for now. I'd say it's considerably improved over the 115 c.c. MX. So I have to back off of some of my earlier statements re 150 c.c. Nouvo's and an imminent fuel injected model. My latest guess is Yamaha will hold its pricing down and in 6 months to a year come out with a fuel injected 150 c.c. model.

BMW K1? Now you're bringing back memories. I remember I was in Junior high school when it came out, and remembered I wanted one really badly from the pictures and articles in the motorcycle magazines. Back then, I thought it was stunning looking...like a space ship. Looking at pictures now, I'm like...what were they (and me) thinking?

Like you, I thought the BMW K bikes were the cat's meow and then I bought one. This is the exact one I bought, even the same color--blue.

When I had it I test drove a Japanese bike that had even more horsepower than my 1985 K 100 RS had but I had the feeling of not being in control. The Japanese bike (it was a Honda) simply did not begin to match up to the BMW as to brakes and handling. One day I took it up to 212 kilometers per hour but had to back the BMW down as both an overpass I was approaching on a superhighway overpass and a side road was rapidly loomed ahead of me. Almost any car coming up the side road would have pulled in front of me after its driver vastly underestimated my speed. The frontage road was also far from being smooth. With full luggage on board I took my wife and I up to Chicago in 2.5 hours, a trip that normally takes 4 hours. A Camaro started to screw with us at close to 100 miles an hour but I blew him off.

At 504 pounds dry that BMW felt very compact. There wasn't a day I drove it when I did not take it up to 100 miles an hour and anything less than 80 felt slow. It's still an absolutely gorgeous machine even today in my eyes although the engine appears very Teutonic. But that depends on how one looks at it. This bike was not good in town however. The narrow handle bars did not lend to flickability. In fact, aside from a couple of spills on dirt bikes I've dropped just two bikes, my old 350 CB Honda taking a turn too fast when I first owned it and this BMW, ironically in a motorcycle safety class. I was hung over and had to do some low speed maneuvers between cones and the like. At an almost dead stop the bike started to go over and the narrow bars did not give me the leverage I needed to overcome that. Even those driving Harleys with their much wider bars found such low speed maneuvers to be more easily managed than I found this BMW.

Several times I had electronic failures with this bike. Once or twice the electronic controlled fuel pump failed and I had to have BMW motorad come out. The bike had a high speed tingle that could be felt in the bars at all rpm levels. My old BMW 650 R-65 with its horizonal twin engine was far superior vibration wise. Between 60 and 70 miles an hour there was a significant vibration in 5th gear. But it was glassy smooth say at 58 miles an hour and anything above 70 miles an hour. Back then the K 100 RS sold for $7000 new but I bought mine slightly used for around $4800 with only 5000 miles on the odometer. I did have the transmission go out but BMW covered that on the 3 year warranty which had transferred over to me.

Meanwhile I had been reading that high speed engine vibrations were normal for this particular model in this year range. I'd think BMW improve this over the years. Back then the Germans were not too strong in the electronics department, a fact that I verified with German cars which both my dad and I owned. Compared to the 650 twin I had, this BMW relied a lot on sophisticated electronics starting with fuel injection whereas my 650 had carburetors. Although I'm not mechanically inclined I could do about all maintenance on the 650 myself which offered quick access to the battery, spark plugs the engine's timing and so on.

But when that K100 RS machine came out at $7000 I thought it was the most stunning design I'd ever seen on a bike. And although this bike was not a good in town bike, when it came to driving fast on the highway I don't think there was a Japanese bike that could compare. Except for that high speed tingle in the bars, that bike was very comfortable at high speeds (eg, that 2.5 hour jaunt to Chicago that normally takes 4 hours even included a five minute break to get the tingling out of my fingers) and if I recall back then the bike would get from zero to one hundred miles an hour in 7 seconds and back to zero very quickly while feeling entirely safe as I did so. 1985 BMW K-100 RS specifications

You pay more for a BMW and close by dealerships might be scarce or nonexistent. However, I feel BMW's by far the most innovative company out there and that it also offers a much more well balanced range of products that will satisfy a wider range of drivers. Take a look at the BMW Motorad U.S.A. web site. bmw web site.

Notice that BMW has addressed the legitimate needs of a wide range of motorcyclists with most of its models offering comfortable seating and an upright riding position. There's some top notch touring bikes here all the way up to 1300 cc's. There are sport bike. There's a 175 horsepower 1300 c.c. very quick model that has a dry weight of only 501 pounds. There's an off off road 800 model that weighs just 390 pounds dry. There's even a 650 single cylinder model that tips the scales at just 326 pounds, dry. There are single cylinder models that will be comfortable for fairly long distance, twin cylinder engines and four cylinder models to accommodate a wide range of tastes. And now, a six cylinder that is four inches narrower than any previous 6 cylinder bike. 170 horsepower, 1600 c.c's pictured below. Me---I'd probably spring for a 650 or an 800 c.c. bike. In the U.S. if you buy Honda, you get a Harley Davidson look a like with a low seat, bad view of the road and bars sticking up near the moon or you get a racer styled bike that will give you back trouble for life and while being horrible to drive in town, a great heavy tourer in the form of a Gold Wing hitting the scales at a mere 900 pounds, but if you want an all rounder you can get a 234 c.c. Honda Rebel which will probably not even hit 75 miles per hour.

But wait a minute....after searching Honda's web site I found a more all around kind of machine. It's 680 c'c's. and it costs $10,000. And it weighs 562 pounds fueled up so maybe dry it will weigh in at that 175 horsepower 1300 c.c. BMW's weight. If I lived in the U.S. again and had a BMW dealer close by, I'd go with BMW and wouldn't even look at companies such as Honda.

That's easy. I had wire wheels and drove the first Nouvo for three years with not one flat. On the second Nouvo, again with wire wheels, I had no flats for nine months. And I just had my first flat two days ago. They put a new tube in it for 200 baht.

I note that there seems to be a consensus that mag wheels are better than spokes, which surprises me a bit. When I bought my BMW1200GS last year I was told that spoked wheels were much stronger, and they were an expensive extra on the standard model, which had mag wheels. Given the state of the roads here compared to Europe, I would have thought spokes would be the sensible option.

I had heard the wire wheels were stronger too, but honestly I do not know. However, that did impact my decision to buy spoked wheels on my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance last year. Cheaper price and stronger (or so I thought) made that an easy pick.

Ohh Richard, who the hel_l are 'most who' ??? Seriously, you try sellin one of these to a real sports bike enthusiast and 'most will' laugh in your face.

What can possibly be sporty about gliding into a corner with phark all engine braking ability and floundering about as the bike decides what gear it will change into as you 3 parts past the apex of the corner??

I've been reading lots of reviews about the 400 c.c. Yamaha Majesty, the 500 c.c. Yamaha T Max and such Hondas as the 300. And the general consensus is 1. People aren't laughing when they see a T-Max down the road. They are awed by the styling. Also, the T-Max has excellent road manners and all around performance for highway cruising, and from what I've read it gives nothing away to most motorcycles. As far as the Ninja 250 is concerned as others have pointed out here it needs to rev high to get its performance. The T Max doesn't. The T Max has power that comes on much more easily and swiftly and if one were cruising long distances on say American Western highways, the T Max is going to be infinitely more comfortable and capable. And from what I've read about Honda's 300 c.c. automatic, its brakes are terrific and its handling is actually better than most true motorcycles.

I saw a new T Max over at Carre Four a couple of weeks ago and it was simply gorgeous as well as impeccably put together. But the price tag is way up there. So I do concur about the Kawasaki"s ER6n 650 machine. World of difference between 250,000 baht and 600,000. That's what I'd have for cruising around Thailand. But-----the T Max is no laughing matter to be embarrassed driving. It's a true state of the art machine. But as I've said many times before. My driving is confined to Pattaya and the immediate surrounding area so I need a "city bike". The T Max at 450 pounds is going to be much harder to drive in town than something like the 230 pound Yamaha Nouvo. I personally like the concept of the Honda 300 Sh I. It weighs around 300 pounds so I think it is still small enough and agile enough to deal easily with Pattaya traffic and it's got enough power and speed to deal with much higher speed highway traffic as well.

As far as feeling like a wuss driving a larger automatic, I only have this to say. I'd much rather be on the cutting edge than be driving yesterday's technology. Now that I've said that, I sure wish I had my old BMW R-65 shaft driven 650 horizonally opposed twin. Even here in Pattaya with all its city driving.

Durability.. Power.. Lower maintenance..

All reasons why Mocy taxis are using waves, dreams, sonics, sparks, over autos.

I'd say there is more maintenance to the manuals. From what dealerships have told me and from what other posters have expressed when it comes to changing the drive belt of an automatic it's not much money at all. And you only have to do it every 25,000 kilometers or so. And chains need to be replaced at least twice as often. Now, I had my first Nouvo for 3 years and sold it so I could buy my Elegance at 14000 kilometers or so. I figured I had another two years of driving before I'd have to replace the belt. hel_l, I had been keeping my bicycle in the bedroom and finally took it out on my balcony. About a week ago I noticed a bit of rust starting in on the chain. So I lubed it up pretty well. So far that bicycle just a sittin has been more maintenance than my present Yamaha Elegance which is approaching its first year of ownership. Which recalls those days of my old Honda 350 CB when I was adjusting the chain fairly often and making sure it was well oiled. As far as the automatics one just parks them and forgets them. And if one has a carburetor, one should drive it at least once every few days to complete the maintenance procedure just to keep the carb clean. Oil every so often and that's about it.

And as for those motorcycle taxi drivers being professionals, whatever they are driving I don't want. For the most part they are complete idiots who are complete menaces on the road. For the most part they are guys who can't get hired or don't want to get hired doing anything else. Because they are pretty far down the food chain, one cannot expect them to buy nice machinery such as a PCXi or Yamaha Nouvo. And even if they could, they'd want to reserve the nice bike for occasions not involving work such as driving the bike to church on Sundays. I noticed you mentioned the Honda Sonic. Man...I doubt if even 10 % of the guys posting here could even begin to get comfortable on one of those midget mobiles. Starting with the seat, they'd be getting hemorrhoids for sure.

Who buys a motorbike on price only, or any vehicle?

I do, for 71k i can buy a new Click and still have change for atleast 30 short times down Soi 6.

Or you could buy a 5 year old wave and have enough left over for 60 short times down Soi 6.

Up to you!

I totally disagree. First off now that I live here I've sold two cars, a nice 4 wheel drive pickup truck that I needed (on the farm) and a Mazda Miata sports car (that I did not need but desperately wanted). I had big insurance premiums, repair costs (in the few instances when either needed to be repaired or serviced). When compared to the costs of car ownership I've contended with and no doubt most of those posting here have also, the difference in price between a Honda Wave and say a Yamaha Nouvo is laughable. And for me, there is a huge difference between how safe it is driving a Nouvo and any manual transmission bike and the comfort level between a Nouvo and say a Wave. Anyone who fails to recognize the huge danger level one faces daily driving among a bunch of brain dead drivers in a place such as Pattaya is blind. In such city driving situations automatics allow their drivers to focus on how they can avoid colliding with the idiots all around them instead of having to worry about when to shift. Moreover, a bike such as a Nouvo (I'm thinking here of Air Blades as well) has a comfortable seat whereas Waves have narrow uncomfortable looking seats). Although one can change them for bigger tires, Waves come standard with spindly tires. The bikes appear to be built less robustly. So an automatic such as a Nouvo will be heavier, more stable and just safer to drive for the reasons I'm mentioning.

Spending 70,000 baht for a new Honda PCX i does not seem to be unreasonable at all, if the person buying it perceives it to be the finest machine of its kind. An ex girlfriend of mine had a bright red Fino and I thought it was just gorgeous. And it drove well. It just doesn't compare with my Nouvo Elegance for all around prowess in a variety of conditions. But to someone who feels that he/she is driving the most stunning machine out there the purchase of a Fino makes sense so long as this same person realizes he's not getting the all around prowess of the Fino's bigger brother. A lot of Thais including taxi drivers buy and drive Waves because they cannot afford anything else or in the case of many taxi drivers, Waves do get better fuel economy which once again means they can afford to buy only Waves. Most of us are fortunately not in the same predicament. We can afford to buy what suits us the most. And as for myself, I'd pay even 150,000 baht if I thought by doing so I could have a much better all around machine for the conditions I drive in than what I am presently driving. When I bought my first BMW motorcycle with shaft drive I thought chain driven motorbikes were pretty prehistoric in comparison. They do have their place, however, on dirt bikes for instance or bikes one wishes to race, on roof augers on top of grain bins on the farm, etc. But if a man wants the utmost state of the art in a motorbike, the automatics are the way to go. And although I personally feel Yamaha will soon once again trump Honda with its new Nouvo model that is sure to come, I don't think anyone here can disagree that the new Honda 125 PXI represents a sense of style, ease of driving, and overall technological refinement that makes a Wave look absolutely stone age in comparison.

i v got Airblade PGM Fi and yammy Elegance in my garage. Elegance has much better range, even if it doesnt have a huge 4,8 gallon fueltank as you say, it shure has much larger fueltank than airblade.

Yamaha's already got fuel injection on its Spark. If I were Yamaha this is what I'd do. First off, I'd completely ignore Honda's latest innovation, the stop start feature of the engine that saves fuel at traffic lights. If I could gain fuel economy by putting fuel injection in the Nouvo Elegance I would. I'd then introduce it with a 150 c.c. engine. I'd go with slightly larger tires. the tires are rated at 16-70/80 in the front and 16/80/90 in the back. In fact I've been thinking of going with the 80 width for my front tire and the 90 for my back. This would give Yamaha as fat a tire as the Air Blade already has, and I could do the same. And the 16 inch wheel offers more centrifugal force giving the Yamaha more straight line stability. I'd then put in a larger fuel tank.....say in the 6 liter range. What is important is the new Yamaha would seem to be much more fuel efficient than the 135 c.c. Elegance I already have---even if it isn't.

Fuel injection would give Yamaha equal bragging rights to Honda and Suzuki. But Yamaha would also have 25 cc's more engine. That could be decisive. I"d bill it as a breakaway machine that completely walks all over Honda in the performance department. And I'd undercut Honda in price. I think this would make serious inroads in Honda's market share.

Hondas market share is made of Waves and Clicks. Airblade is small numbers, and the PCX will be too.

For yammy it was Mio and is Fino. Nouvo is small in numbers, and moving it upmarket in price with larger injection engine would make the numbers even smaller.

Farang places the figures are some different, but still.

That is very true. However, image counts for a lot and the manufacturer that presents the best image whether for reliability or performance or state of the art design is going to reap dividends from the achievements of its flagship models in its bread and butter machines. Example...After having a boring lackluster image Ford got into racing big time while it improved its bread and butter machines it was selling to the American public. Its GT-40's conquered both Porsche and Ferrari. Meanwhile Ford had improved its lineup of cars and Ford consequently got a shot in the arm. General Motors had its Corvette and although Corvette sales were limited the image presented by Corvette as a high performance car enable GM to sell a lot of Pontiacs and Chevys. From what I've read Yamaha has an excellent machine in its Spark which will run away from a Honda Wave but the sales of the Spark are nowhere near as good as the Honda Wave's. But if Yamaha can do well with its flagship auto----the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance, this will spin off into increased sales of Sparks, Mios and Finos.

i v got Airblade PGM Fi and yammy Elegance in my garage. Elegance has much better range, even if it doesnt have a huge 4,8 gallon fueltank as you say, it shure has much larger fueltank than airblade.

Yamaha's already got fuel injection on its Spark. If I were Yamaha this is what I'd do. First off, I'd completely ignore Honda's latest innovation, the stop start feature of the engine that saves fuel at traffic lights. If I could gain fuel economy by putting fuel injection in the Nouvo Elegance I would. I'd then introduce it with a 150 c.c. engine. I'd go with slightly larger tires. the tires are rated at 16-70/80 in the front and 16/80/90 in the back. In fact I've been thinking of going with the 80 width for my front tire and the 90 for my back. This would give Yamaha as fat a tire as the Air Blade already has, and I could do the same. And the 16 inch wheel offers more centrifugal force giving the Yamaha more straight line stability. I'd then put in a larger fuel tank.....say in the 6 liter range. What is important is the new Yamaha would seem to be much more fuel efficient than the 135 c.c. Elegance I already have---even if it isn't.

Fuel injection would give Yamaha equal bragging rights to Honda and Suzuki. But Yamaha would also have 25 cc's more engine. That could be decisive. I"d bill it as a breakaway machine that completely walks all over Honda in the performance department. And I'd undercut Honda in price. I think this would make serious inroads in Honda's market share.