jackcorbett

Don't get me wrong, I love the fuel injection of the PCX and the shutoff system.

So the big thing with the PCX is the fuel savings, but I wonder if the average person here would bother to figure out what that means.

That 18,000 Baht price difference between a PCX and NE is equal to ~545 liters at 33BHT/liter.

For a taxi rider it may make good sense since he fills up a few times a week.

I only ride a tankful every week or two so it would take me 2 years before I start seeing any financial advantage.

Correct me then if my figures are wrong. 545 liters is equal to 144 gallons. This is a worse case scenario because I really don't fuel up quite this often. But say I fuel up twice a week and each time I have one gallon of gas put in my Nouvo Elegance. At 52 weeks a year, that's 104 gallons. It's going to take me 1.4 years to use 144 gallons. So if it cost me zero for fuel to drive the Honda PCXi it would take me 1.4 years to recover my cost of driving my horrendously expensive fuel gulping Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. But.....that engine stopping feature at stop lights in reality will only provide me with a partial fuel savings. Say the Honda 125 PXI is 10 % more fuel efficient than my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. It will therefore take me 14 years of driving to recover the cost difference between the two machines. And it the Honda gets 20 % better fuel economy it will only take 7 years to pay for it over the much less expensive Yamaha Nouvo. Also, I live in Pattaya where the driving is city driving. For someone living in a rural area where there are no stoplights the gas savings due to the shut off feature of Honda will amount to zero.

Uh....No thanks. Also, I'm wondering whether or not the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance wasn't already beating Honda's Air Blade in the fuel economy department before Honda came out with programmed fuel injection. I'd say my new Nouvo Elegance with its significantly greater power over my old 115 c.c. Nouvo Elegance is more fuel efficient. From reading the specs on the new Elegance it's got a carburetor to be sure, but it's also got something called a throttle body sensor which reputedly provides better fuel efficiency. My old Nouvo MX didn't have this. The question is why it does now? The 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance also has Nikasil linings in the cylinder which has lower friction. Does this result in slightly improved fuel economy also? It could be Honda had to put programmed fuel injection in their Air Blades just to catch up. Also..let's talk real world here. The Air Blade only has a 4 liter fuel tank. The Nouvo has a 4.8 gallon fuel tank. So even if the Honda delivers as much as 20 percent better fuel economy in its programmed fuel injected Air Blade it will still only have the same range as the Nouvo Elegance due to its larger fuel tank. So the driver won't even see that difference of 20 % if it exists in the first place.

The PCX i looks good to my eye though and its new technology is appealing. It's going to be interesting to see what Yamaha pulls out of its sleeve now.

If Honda is really getting into 70 k baht territory with the coming PCX 125, it stands poised to lose some serious market share here in Thailand. Yamaha from the time I'd first gotten interested in motorcycles were more performance orientated than Honda. Take a look at two "ancient models" from both companies. Note first the ratings at Bikez for the 1973 Yamaha RD 350 Bikez ratings of 1973 350 RD Yamaha Then look at the ratings for the 1973 Honda 350 CB 1973 Honda CB 350 Pictured is the 1973 Honda CB

First off, the Yamaha 350 RD developed 39 horsepower way back then. It was a two stroke whereas the Honda was a four stroke developing 36 horsepower. It was bikes such as these that ran companies such as Triumph, BSA and Norton into hopeless decline because they were much cheaper, more reliable, and offered roughly the same performance level as those British 650's, and in the case of the Yamaha was every bit as fast. As I recall both machines were selling for about $1000 back in 1973. Looking at the CPI for both 1973 and 2009 the consumer price index has gone up 5 times. So one should figure that both Yamaha and Honda should be able to offer at least this much machine in 2009 for $5000. But both the coming 250 HOnda two stroke and the Kawasaki Ninja are selling for around 140,000 baht which is about $4300 today.

Now, the 350 RD Yamaha got poor fuel economy back then because it was a two stroke. But I'll wager that either bike was a better all around performer than either the current Ninja 250 or the coming Honda 250. Both have upright comfortable riding positions and both have long seats providing comfort for two.

So Honda's going to do a little price gouging and think that cutting edge technology is going to justify that? There must be a reason why the head man at my local Honda dealer told me 1. I think Yamaha Nouvo will be coming out with a 150 and 2. Honda is number one (in sales) in Thailand now but I think in the future Yamaha will be very dangerous for Honda."

Yamaha has actually had fuel injection for some time now but it's been in its manual transmission Spark, not the Nouvo Elegance. In fact it had liquid cooling and the 135 c.c. engine in the Spark before it had either in the Nouvo so it was only a matter of a short time that it would have these goodies in its top of the line Nouvo model. So one can expect to see fuel injection in the Nouvo Elegance soon. Also Honda has two automatics in this category, the 125 PCX i that's coming to Thailand soon and the 150 models that are currently being marketed in the U.S. and other places. So it would be a natural for Yamaha to be introducing a 150 c.c. automatic to compete against Honda's 150's in these markets. So, the Honda dealer's prediction that Yamaha will be introducing a 150 here in Thailand makes sense.

So what then? Honda will be offering a 125 PCXi that according to certain web sites will be selling for 70,000 baht, around 18,000 baht more than the current Nouvo 135 c.c. Elegance. And if Yamaha offers a still newer Nouvo Elegance which produces 150 cc's while offering fuel injection, particularly if it seriously undercuts Honda in price, what will happen to Honda market share then? WE are now talking 25 c.c's difference then. This would put the Nouvo in an entirely different category performance wise and even more capable of going cross country. And as for being able to save gas while at stoplights because the engine of the PCXi shuts down, I'd much rather have the extra performance of that extra 25 cc's than a little better fuel economy from city driving. Besides, Yamaha can always put in a slightly bigger fuel tank to give its new bikes increased range. So according to this scenario Yamaha will be replaying ancient History with its latest Nouvo Elegance offerings really tromping Honda's butt performance wise in the same measure that its old 350 RD kicked Honda's butt back in the early 1970's. Once again Honda will be expected to get better fuel economy but this time it won't do it decisively.

He meant in sales volume in Thailand and that in the average Thais eyes Honda was the number one company. What he said later can be interpreted different ways but the way I see it he was 1. Admitting Honda had the advantage over Yamaha because it had more popular acceptance but that Yamaha was the more innovative, aggressive company and that if given enough time it would overtake Honda in sales if Honda continued to rest on its laurels.

Mate bought one in udon for the normal money..

And I fail to believe the entire country sells them at that price except for Khon Khen.. Theres usually many dealers in any large city, just go to a different one.

Yes it's pretty clear you don't believe what I'm saying but I can assure you it's true. Short of coming to see for yourself I don't know what else to say.

I've been to many different dealers here already and they all quote 68k. This is the cash price.

Like I said I will go to BKK or Pattaya to buy.

On second thought, perhaps you are right after all. I stopped at the local Honda dealer here in Naklua where I often get my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance serviced. The salesman or owner is a pretty nice fellow. When I got back from Vietnam I gave him pictures of the 150 c.c. Honda I saw there and we discussed the possibility of Honda introducing it here before long. As it turned out Honda was sending the 150 to the U.S. among other places while it had the 125 c.c. pxi earmarked for Thailand. The man was very pleased with the info I had given him so now he's returned the favor.

He showed me a brochure he had in his desk of the 125 PCX, then told me this was a private informational brochure for him and not to be made public yet. He told me he didn't know when the bike would be available here although he did say, "Soon", but he didn't suggest that soon meant in the next week or two for instance. He also said he didn't have any idea of the price. He also told me that very few new Air Blades are to be found in the dealers here in Pattaya. For example for some time now I've not seen a single one in his place. And he said they were selling for 70,000 baht. He did have a number of Clicks in his place, Honda Waves, one CBR, at least one Scoopy, etc. So it does look like those few dealers who do have Air Blades in stock are getting scalpers' prices for them.

He also told me that he thinks Yamaha is soon coming out with a 150 c.c. Nouvo. Then he said, "Honda number one in Thailand now, but I think that Yamaha is very dangerous for Honda in the future."

in the brochure I wanted to look up the fuel tank capacity for the PCXi. It was there---6.2 liters. I think the Air Blade has a 4 liter fuel tank. The Nouvo Elegance has either a 4.8 or 4.9 liter tank. So, if one considers that the newer Air Blades have programmed fuel injection and that Honda claims 15 % better fuel economy and that the new PCX i will shut down at stop lights, the new Pcx I will no doubt offer significantly longer cruising range than the present Air Blade is offering. This means fewer times visiting fuel stations in the normal course of the week.

So the pricing of the new models will be interesting. If I were you I'd sit tight. I certainly would not be giving 68000 baht for a 53000 baht bike whether it's in short supply or not. You can buy Nouvo Elegances all day long for 52000-53000 baht and believe me, the seat in the pants difference in feel between these 135 c.c. machines and the 115 c.c. Nouvo MX's is very noticeable. The 135 c.c. model flies.

Now if the Nouvo comes out in 150 c.c. clothing it will be treading into 150 CBR territory. And the manual transmission Yamaha Spark already has fuel injection. My first Nouvo, a 115 c.c. MX cost me 53000 baht. My new 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance cost me 1000 baht less three years later and it definitely is a lot more machine. It really does make sense for Yamaha to be introducing a 150 c.c. model considering Honda's already offering a 150 c.c. model in the U.S. and other markets, but I can't see Yamaha staying at 115 c.c. model pricing. So maybe both Yamaha and Honda are up scaling their top machines and will be pricing both at 65000 to 70 baht.

Hmmmm...maybe Yamaha will be changing its styling and this will allow it to put in a substantially larger fuel tank thus giving its flag ship model a lot more range which will help it to be more suitable for cross country jaunts. And at the same time it will offer fuel injection which will help Yamaha justify a higher price.

I personally like the styling of the new PCX i. And I had the chance to look at a lot of pictures of the PXI which were in the brochure.

First off, we are talking standard bikes here without mag wheels. My Nouvo cost me 52000 baht which is 1000 baht less than I paid for my first Nouvo, the MX. Mags are an option at several thousand baht more whether for a Nouvo or an Air Blade. Now, everyone has their preferences, and the Air Blades are very nice machines. However, the Nouvo Elegance is 135 cc's and it's got greater size and significantly more power than an Airblade, fuel injected or with a carburetor. I don't think Honda is going to sell many bikes if it comes in at a significantly higher price than the Nouvo Elegance because if anything the Elegance currently is more bike than Honda's present Air Blade offering. As far as the 125 c.c. pcx actually selling for 70,000 baht, well, the technology and fuel economy look terrific, but at that kind of pricing Honda could well be headed for a big ass kicking. That's about 10,000 baht more than it's own CBR which is 150 ccs. And it's 18,000 baht more than the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. That's about $550 U.S. Sure, one is going to save some gas by not having the engine run at stoplights. But $550 will buy a lot of gas. I don't think Honda is that stupid.

If I were you, I'd be heading to Pattaya to pick up an Air Blade and save yourself a lot of money.

52k down here too.. Plus of course extras for mags and insurance and on road reg etc.. Sometimes the on road can be dealers costs but mags rarely free.

The national MSRP is listed.. Seems to me like the KK dealer just added F.A.T. (farang added tax) !!

Mmm... 52k for an Airblade PGM FI are you sure ? Which dealer is that ? The PGM FI comes with mags by default btw.

There are a few older Airblade carburettor models here for 49k, they don't have the mags or the combi-brake.

Could be F.A.T. as you say but that's a sticker price as in they have a sticker on the bike. indicating that price. They also gave my Thai wife the same price too !

Tell you what, I'll lend you my Thai driver's license, then all you do is say to your dealer, "Pom bin Cun Thai. My Shy Falang". That'll do it. Bet he reduces your price at least 12,000 baht. I tried that at the zoo yesterday, and I got in for 70 baht. My Norwegian pal had to pay 300 baht.

I have a 4 months old Airblade PGM Fi in my garage and it was just under 60k all included. Since the yammy elegance 135cc is less than 60k too, I doubt Honda will ask more for a 125cc.

That's good to know, where did you buy ?

The dealers here in Khon Kaen that have Airblades (not many now) have them all priced at 68k. Therefore I can't see the PCX coming in lower than that, but I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

In that case you guys are getting screwed screwed screwed. I think this has been said before so let me say it again. SCREWED just to make it clear where the horseshit ends I got my Yamaha Elegance for 52,000 baht, a bit more out the door with insurance and registration but still more than $400 American less than you say you are paying in Khon Kaen. Tell us you are not making this up. Why would a dealer in Khon Kaen charge 30 percent more than what nearly all dealerships in Pattaya charge?

I doubt whether this is a linear statistic, and I expect that the vast majority accidents involve low mileage/beginner/young loony riders. Experience counts for a lot when riding bikes, control, anticipation, riding skills and road awareness.

i am not a biker, but i understand the allure, freedom, etc. ..its dangerous enough that my thai wife has almost lost count of how many friends and relatives have died as a result of motorcycle accidents...FYI..the last one was caused by a CAR..but does that change the stats? ??? signed: under seige in Phuket ( watching for motorcycles, spinning my head in 360 's constantly )

I have enjoyed reading most of this thread, and agree that riding experience, defensive riding behaviours, ju-jitsu (muay thai Bangkok), decent lights, and rearview mirrors that get looked in every 10 seconds between scanning the width of the road situation ahead, and preferably cargo strapped to something that doesn't mess with the handlebars can do a lot to change our luck in the big city.

At the same time there are two classically probable causes for why motorcycles are dangerous: Error by a motorcyclist, or error by a car or truck driver, or occasionally both. Due to Newtonian physics F=MA, the outcome is usually a damaged motorcyclist whichever the cause.

One thing it has taken me a few years and two trips to emergency to learn, is the difference between daytime riding and nightime riding in Thailand. It doesn't seem such a change in Australia because IMHO the traffic is somewhat more predictable. In Thailand at night, it seems that switching on headlights and stopping at redlights are optional extras, and it's important to recognise the very significant difference between the situational awareness we might get used to riding a motosai during the day, and the whole new set of skills to stay alive on two wheels at night.

It seems safer to get somewhere local at sunset on a bike, and only ride the few hundred metres to the minimart if you need to, but if going out somewhere at night, make it very local or catch a taxi. If F=MA then Taxi=M.

I agree with you. Usually if I want to go anywhere here in Pattaya other than restaurants, etc. within a mile or two of the condo on the much less trafficked back streets, I'll drive my motorbike up the backstreets to a bar or restaurant on Naklua Road and park my bike there. I will then take the ten baht taxi to where I'm going from that point. However, Once in awhile I'll deviate from this procedure knowing it's at great peril. Although a lot of Thais here in Pattaya are decent drivers who take the rules of the road seriously a huge percentage of them as you say view motorbike lights as optional, run red lights whenever they feel like it, view one way lanes and streets as normal traffic lanes. I'm sorry if I referred to such people as morons in a previous post. I meant sub-morons.

The problem with having a car here is cars are cumbersome lumbering goliaths on Pattaya's busy streets. Parking is difficult. I can outrun them in most situations on my bicycle. They are expensive. Also...the unwritten rule here is "Falang always wrong". So I reasoned that because cars have a much wider frontal area than a bike and are simply much larger, the chances of being hit or hitting something are vastly greater than on a bike. So I'd be at huge risk at paying off some Thai who was at fault in the first place. Motorbikes are much more practical (unless one is always taking his golf clubs to the golf course). However the danger level to one's own life and limb is through the stratosphere. When I constantly bring up the virtues of the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and other automatic scooters, I'm thinking first of the danger level here and that an automatic allows the driver to focus 100 percent on his own driving plus the next idiotic move that will imperil him from another driver near him without having to diminish this focus one iota because of the need to shift, worrying about what gear he should be in, missed shifts, etc. Survival here requires not 99 % of one's complete concentration but 100 percent and even then getting by without getting killed or suffering major injuries is a matter of luck.

You guys are biker puppies,when you take the big step i will come back and talk to you

I did a 1500 mile tour of England and Scotland when I was 17. The bike didn't have 50 c.c.'s and it didn't even have shocks. Had a blast too, staying in youth hostels most of the time. The bike was a three speed pedal bike. So yeah, I think a 125 c.c. would do it and just think you wouldn't have to pedal up the large hills.

I'd say that figure of motorcyclists being 18 times more likely of dying than in a car is on the low side. I saw a statistic a few months ago that had motorcylists incurring 33 times more fatalities per mile driven. Here's a statistic that states the probability is 21 times greater. U.S. statisitc on motoribke fatalities vs. automobile And here's another one, a stat for the U.K. that has 51 times more deaths on a motorbike than in a car per mile driven. In the U.K. 51 times more motorcylists get killed than automobiles And as for Thailand I'd say the real figures are off the charts. I don't think there is a day when I take my motorbike out here that somebody doesn't do something so stupid, and so dangerous near my bike that I'm simply jolted into complete incredulity that the powers that be don't do something about these morons. Yes, I would agree that being a careful driver and being an experienced driver helps with the odds but there is still a huge percentage of chance that no matter how well a person drives, the utter stupidity of those around him is likely to get him if he drives enough miles. That being said, I still love driving my Nouvo, but it's always in my head that it's the other driver that makes driving motorbikes here so dangerous.

Hmm......I wonder how reliable the statistics are that I've just given because if they are accurate this means English motorcyclists have more than double the chance of dying than their American counterparts.

When I do get pulled over, it's that time of the month for the local police, like menstruation. And there will be a group of them and I notice Thais getting pulled over while I'm pulled over. I have a Thai driver's license and when I pull that they normally just smile and wave me on very politely. Only time recently I had to pay money other than having my bike pulled for being illegally parked was for a helmet violation. I had picked a 22 year old gal up at a bar, handed her my extra helmet, waited a few moments for her to put it on and then I drove away. Brother was I surprised when I saw the police pulling people over at Dolphin circle, they asked me to pull over and when I showed them my driver's license and they wanted to detain me, when they told me they had pulled me over for not wearing a helmet. I pointed at my helmet and then the police pointed at the girl. She had carried the helmet at her side as she rode behind me even after I had handed it to her. Ironically it was the last time I took her out. I also want to mention that I had bought a jacuzzi for my condo here and while dealing with the engineer estimator from a large Pattaya outfit dealing with kitchens and bathrooms, the engineer told me the police stopped him nearly every day he drove to or from Bangkok back to Pattaya. And he's Thai. They see nice car, they see money.

So... does anyone know when this bike will be released? I live in Pattaya and checked with the Honda dealer in North and South Pattaya and have no idea on what the VTR250. I then asked if they know if anything new is coming, they said no, but any new models would come in January or February.

I would really like to place my order for one. Anyone have any success in BKK?

This is my first post and not use to the forums, so also saying hello all!!

It seems the dealerships are often the "Last to know" when new model bikes are about to come out. This stands to reason in one respect. For example, I might be a candidate for a Honda Phantom or a CBR 150. So if a dealership I'm inquiring at has these machines in inventory even if it knows the new VTR250 is coming out in say one month, it might tell me, "We don't know" hoping I'll spring for a 200 c.c. Phantom or a 150 c.c. CBR. Such dealerships are therefore sacrificing the long term in terms of their credibility for short term profit. For instance if I inquired at a dealership when a new model was coming out and the dealership told me, "We don't know" and one day later I found this dealership stocking the new model I'd think either: 1. It was lying to me in the first place or 2. Its employees don't know much.

Dave i have already asked Khun Pariya. Tiger want to gauge response on these bikes 1st because lets face it we falangs are a very small market for Tiger and they are trying to break back into the Thai market. I have already asked about the 250rs styled like a sr400 and he's thinking about that. I also have spoken to another expat who is considering buying a basic 250 eg no upside downs etc then redoing the tank and bodywork himself.

Allan

Imagine something like this but smaller

I love the SR 500 look and all silver engines. Add a classy paint job and...

As for quality, a local company (where one can actually show up at the factory) cannot be all bad - or

they would keep the factory location a secret and their 3 months' warranty with 5 pages of small print.

Miss the 500 km service? Warranty will be void!

Get that service done by an independent dealer? Warranty will be void!

3 months / 3000 km instead of 3 years / 30,000 km.

A company would go out of business selling real junk with a decent warranty.

^^^

BTW, I read that MBOX bought 2 Retros and he posted a report of his first 500 km on them.

I recall the engine is sounding good and to be quite torquey.

Shame that Tiger isn't putting a bigger engine into the TT.

Ride on

Chris

From what Mbox has told me, once I asked him for more specific information re his iron butt ride on his 250 Tiger with a friend riding a 250 Ninja, the Tiger held some key advantages over the Ninja and vice versa. And I felt he was being very objective, and not unduly biased towards his own mount, the Tiger. First off, he wrote me that in some important ways the Tiger actually outperformed the Ninja in spite of the fact that peak horsepower is around 33 for the Ninja versus around 18 for the Tiger. This is due to the Tiger producing a lot of its horsepower at low to medium rpms versus the Ninja's needing to be wound up to high rpm's to get the power out of it. The Tiger's upright riding position and more traditional seat makes a lot of sense also for most riders.

Still, I am mystified why it produces 18 horsepower and say the Honda Rebel a two cylinder 250 cc. bike presently marketed in the U.S. produces 17 (the same as the 200 cc. one cylinder Phantom sold here in Thailand) whereas the new 250 Honda that will soon be introduced here (but has been around in Japan and other countries for years) is slated to put out horsepower in the high twenties. And I don't think it's simply a case where the Tiger employs relatively low tech versus these other machines. Example in point, the first bike I ever bought was a 350 Honda. It was rated at 36 horsepower back in 1973. If you take 250 cc's (representing the Honda Rebel or Tiger) and divide by 350, you get 71 %. Multiply this times the 36 horsepower of the old Honda 350 and you get 25.5 horsepower. Now I'm no engineer and I'm not even a decent mechanic. However, I once had a Honda 500 c.c. XL single cylinder dual purpose bike. On the books I don't think it even had 30 horsepower but it had gobs of torque, so much in fact that the thing felt pretty scary when you actually took it out into the woods.

It seems it is no hybrid then. That's good, I figured if it was it would be too expensive.

What really struck me is the new starter motor that keeps the bike from idling for prolonged stops will not be available for the U.S. model. What gives here? Will Honda be offering this model, because it's made in Thailand, at a substantially lower price point than the 150 I it just introduced in the U.S. at around $4600 courtesy no doubt of higher priced Italian labor? The 150 model looks good but I would think the 125 model would be a world beater with that new starter technology. I'm wondering if Honda's trying to protect its profit margins in the U.S. and that's why it will be exporting an inferior machine compared to what we will soon be getting in Thailand.

Living loss---You and I are talking about oranges and apples. If you read my post carefully and I do think I clarified what I was talking about more clearly in a previous post, I stated "And as for putting a single shock over the side of the back wheel'. I was not referring to a mono shock that is centered properly, an example of which is the new Kawasaki ER6n. And which no doubt you are referring to in the larger bikes you mention. Which furthermore seems to have a very robust design. What I am talking about is the much smaller motorbikes where there is a single off center shock to the side of the back wheel in the same spot as a similar bike such as a Honda Wave, Nouvo, etc has just one of a pair of identical shocks. The larger bikes such as the Honda Wave I am referring to are engineered so that both shocks each one being equal distance from the center of the back tire work in concert with each other and each one takes half the load in equal proportion. They were designed to work optimally with two shocks in this configuration, not one. Now to me the smaller bikes such as the Fino seem to have approximately the same size shock but there's just one of them not two. Now I'm not sure what the comparative specs are of the shocks but I'd be willing to be they are similar. And not only that but the whole setup is off balance. I'd think that this works fine for light duty. And these bikes are after all designed for lighter people but I doubt very much if they are equal to what a two shock setup does for their larger brothers. Personally I think this was done to appease the bean counters who are out to cut costs to be more competitive at a lower end of the market.

Hi i cant compare or rate the bikes and im no mechanic but i can give you info from my experience with a yamaha mio (the mio Z i think) simple little auto, im heavy (115kg) and it hauls me around with no problem drum brakes a bit weak but i stop fast enough, the disc brakes freaked me out when i had em on another bike. bought it second hand had it for a year now only ever need basic maintenance bit of a hard ride but thats not only the bikes fault eh I think a more sturdy looking manual would be better for me but the mio has done me fine so far fingers crossed.

My ex girlfriend had a Fino in bright red. It was gorgeous. And I did drive it a fair amount and enjoyed driving it very much. For the money it's a great machine. However, for the money and here we are talking only 10,000 to 12,000 baht more the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance is A LOT more machine. Now.....you weigh 115 kg, which is substantially more than I weigh-----76 kg. But get your calculators out and start adding. My weight---76 kg.+gf's weight---41 kg. +estimated friend's weight--90 kg equals a total of 207 kg. Now that's around 440 pounds put on a small motorbike that has a dry weight of only around 230 pounds. I have a friend in the U.S. who's six foot seven and who weighs 130 kg. When he visits me and we want to hit the bars he either walks a mile, takes a baht taxi at over 100 baht to travel that same mile or rides behind me. If we want to hit a restaurant a mile North of me, he can't go and neither can my English pal who would ride with my gf and me---that is unless he gets on the back of my motorbike with me. And with that kind of weight on the back of a Nouvo, things get a bit dicey. Mios, Finos and Honda Clicks simply can't handle these kinds of loads nearly as well and those who try it are going to go much farther into the danger zone than I do.

Those much smaller tires on these smaller bikes aren't going to handle higher speed driving very well either. So for those who plan on keeping their speeds low, Finos, Mios and Clicks are just fine so long as they don't put too much weight on them. For that matter, I don't think I want to be going 120 km an hour on my Nouvo Elegance, assuming it will go this fast. Try it on a large BMW and even 140 km will seem slow, but not on a scooter type machine. My point about the Nouvo Elegance is that it's very flexible and can do most things very well. For those who wish to save a few bucks, who just like a smaller machine, who prefer the style of say a Fino, etc they are great machines, but you are not going to have nearly the bike that a Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. is. They aren't going to be able to handle the same kind of weight on their seats, they aren't as powerful, they don't compare for under the seat storage and they are not nearly as stable at higher speeds.

And as for putting a single shock over the side of the back wheel, this is just common sense. Even my pal who just bought a new Mio admitted that this arrangement simply won't handle extreme duty. In my opinion the companies that put that single shock on their 40,000 baht small bikes are simply doing it to save a few baht so they can offer such a low price. But it is not a good arrangement because if it was you can bet that Nouvo Elegances, Honda Airblades, Suzuki Hayates, Honda Waves, and Yamaha Sparks would all have it. They don't and the reason they don't is this arrangement simply does not perform as well when the chips are down.

Still......these smaller bikes are great machines so long as one understands their limitations. Pity the poor guys in the U.S. who have been driving Italian motorbikes such as Vespas since the 1950's with their little 10 inch diameter tires. I remember my Dad telling me from the time I was about 8 about how dangerous those scooters were on account of their small tires. It simply amazes me to see that it's taken this long for my fellow Americans to move up in tire size aside from much bigger scooters such as Honda Silver Wings and Yamaha T Maxes. So for those who question the reliability of the automatics just keep that in mind. It's taken, what--forty years to get out of that rut of accepting that things are as they should be and that all scooters need to have small wheels. I think we will see a much shorter time span for acceptance of the variable speed transmission technology to become widespread.

That's Gasohol causing that..... Or its just crap fuel. do you fill up at the same petrol station or do you chop and change?

Personally i would only use 91 benzine as your bike is not FI

I've been to a different petrol station each time, depending on when & where the fuel light came on. I do know that the most recent fill was at a Caltex station. Actually that sort of raises another question... some people tell me that there are brand names to be avoided in Thailand - any thoughts on this would also be welcome.

It doesn't like H2O You have to get that H2O out of there. Back in the U.S. H2O branded fuel forced me into getting a can of alcohol based liquid that I'd add to my fuel tank in small quantities. Can't remember the name of the stuff but there are different names for it. Worked like a champ. You could also be getting other contaminants due to buying bad gasoline. I'd bet the culprit is simple H2O however. Keeping your tank as full as possible helps here. Also if you let your bike sit for very long the gas in the carb will go bad. I doubt if using 91 octang Ethanol is the culprit. I've been drinking the stuff for years without any adverse effects.

The deed is done. One shiney brand spanking new Nouvo Elegance purchased today. It was extremely painful given the dealer spoke no English (my Thai lessons are in their early stages) and my girlfriend was as much use as a chocolate teapot.

The bike started out at 55,000 baht on the road plus another 1,000 baht to register it for a non-house owning foreigner. There was no mention of getting paperwork from immigration (for 500 baht) to confirm my rented house, so for the sake of another 500 baht and no visit to immigration, I thought fair enough. So after producing a quote from another dealer starting at 53,500 baht plus the extras, it panned out like this:

Yamaha Nouvo Elegance (spoked wheels) 53,500

CTPL (and I think plates - 550 baht) 1,000

The above mentioned registration 1,000

Two sets of keys (I think) 100

Total 55,600

I took their theft insurance for 1,800 baht for 2 years coverage. I managed to get out them that 80% was payable if the bike was stolen in year 1 and she said 50% or 60% in year 2. Didn't know which and I got nothing other than a receipt. At this point I just wanted to get out of there.

As for freebies, I got a free helmet, a jacket and a duster. Value of 580 baht which I had to sign for. It took forever to find a helmet that fitted and they were all crappy anyway. Or my head must be unusually large and oddly shaped. I asked whether they'd keep the freebies and give me the money towards a good helmet (which did fit) but they wouldn't do it.

So that all aside, I am a happy man. The one thing that disappointed me is that they only had the manual in Thai. I asked if they order an English from somewhere (Bangkok?) but was told "mai mee". Yeah right. So if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can get one I'd appreciate it. As a biking novice I also had a load of questions for the mechanic but he had buggered off for his lunch. I think the language barrier would have been in evidence again anyway.

So can anyone give some quick advice for breaking in a new machine? 1000km at less than 50km/h or something like that? Use the same type of gas for the first 1,000km? Anything else re the liquid cooling or oil changing that I should know? And when should it get its first service?

Apologies for the stupid questions. I do need the manual.

Yamaha recommends 91 octane gas for its Nouvos and it says to where you put the gas in. But I see nothing wrong with putting in higher octane gasoline. Far as break in, I had the oil changed at 1000 km. Didn't limit myself to speed as to a specific speed but in general laid off the heavy foot and probably never exceeded 60 kilometers per hour for the first 1000 kilometers.

I just bought a new Scoopy-i for the evening's 7/11 trips and after 11 km on the clock it feels good!

I do not know why people say it is ugly. not much different from a Fino and it is a classic design.

I had a Fino some time ago, and that was ok too, however I think the Scoopy has a somewhat stiffer body.

The Suzuki Jelato has a 125 cc engine, which is nice, but I did not like the colors and the design (especially the double headlights).

Cheers

PS: Who copied whom?

Scoopy in the 60's etc.

Ultimately of course the Italians originated the design. And from what I've seen Honda has been at the cutting edge of design. Example in point my Honda CB 350 was a much better all arounder than anything Honda has recently been marketing in the U.S. Figure cost and also figure what most customers really can use and want. The average person does not really need or even want a sport bike or even a Cruiser for that matter in my opinion. But Honda puts out Honda Gold Wings, Harley look alike Cruisers, and sport bikes because they have high profit margins. The new Honda 250 soon expected in Thailand has been available for years in Japan for instance. Does the U.S. have it? No way. Instead it offers the 17 horsepower Rebel and 17 horsepower is the same as a 200 c.c. one cylinder Phantom. From what I've read the new to Thailand 250 will have about 29 horsepower. Is it being offered yet in the U.S.? Okay...from what I've read Honda is presently introducing a 150 c.c. motorbike in the U.S. it has been making in Italy for well over a year and had available in Europe and other locations but has it been made available in Thailand? No. It has a much larger 300 model that will do 85 miles an hour that looks terrific. Actually it displaces 279 cc's I think. But has it been made available to the American market? No. to the Thai market? No.

Yamaha is the first to come out in Thailand with a good automatic and it took Honda a couple of years to catch on that Yamaha had a winner on its hands so it finally came out with its Air Blade and Click models. Yamaha came long after the Italians to come out with the Fino. Sure, Honda might have been selling a handful of 50 C.C. Italian look a likes in the U.S. So what? Yamaha came out in force with a real winner with a 115 c.c. engine and kicked Honda's butt---again in Thailand and finally Honda once again woke up.

May I suggest that Honda has been trying for too long to drive demand for the kinds of bikes people really don't need or want by the strength of its name brand recognition and marketing expertise in both the U.S. and Thai market. May I suggest that for some time now Americans would have loved to have their hands on the 300 c.c. Sh 300 i or even the 150 c.c. SH 150 i. Instead it offered 50 c.c. scooters my bicycle could outrun to $8500 540 pound Silver Wings without much to choose from between. So you got to choose between a fan powered puddle jumper and a two wheeled elephant with skirts.

Just check out this Honda site New Honda atomic bomb a toy The Honda advertising really makes you really want to buy one doesn't it? Just what the average rider needs. Bet it has a huge price tag too. My point is Honda does not want to sell the kind of all around bikes the average guy can really enjoy and use because it can't make that much money on them so it sets out to make everyone think they need to have at least 1000 c.c.'s under their butts or they really aren't men. And it's only when a company such as Yamaha or Kawasaki comes out with something that's a lot more compelling that Honda is forced to come out kicking and screaming with something that's competitive.

Planning to buy my Nouvo Elegance 135cc tomorrow and just checking out bike insurance and quotes thereof, so I have something to compare to when the Yamaha dealer offers up something.

I don't want fully comprehensive and from what I'm gathering, if I want a policy covering theft, then this is cheapest coming direct from the dealer. i.e. the difference between and third class and second class policy from a broker is more than the cost of separate theft coverage from a dealer, which appears to be around 1,500 baht for 2 years (word of mouth).

So given this, I'll probably opt for separate dealer coverage for theft plus broker third party cover or take the whole package offered by the dealer if it's better.

I've been quoted 3,446 per year (exc CPTL) for third party coverage from a broker (Thai Sri policy), which includes:

Bodily Injury or Death - 1m baht person/10m baht per accident

Property damage - 1m baht

Personal Accident benefit (for driver and 1 passenger) - 100,000 baht per person

Accident Medical Expenses (for driver and 1 passenger) - 50,000 baht per person

Bail Bond - 200,000 per accident

Any advice on the subject would be welcome.

Thanks

TCA

Average premium although Thai Visa Insurance can offer 3rd party for 2,839 Baht.

Please note : do not depend on the 50,000 baht of medical expenses as that will go nowhere in a nasty accident - be sure to have a medical policy for yourself.

I have Bupa for myself. However, if I got this straight, Bupa covers only 50 % of the personal injury costs to oneself incurred in a motorbike accident. This should give everyone here food for thought. Here's another. Bupa will cover me for both illness and accident in every country in the world except in the U.S. I am covered by Bupa for accident but not illness in the U.S. Now.....truth is the U.S. has the highest priced health care in the world. So Bupa considers 1. Motorcyles to be slightly more dangerous than facing the firing squad and 2. the U.S. being the worse place in the world to get sick in as far as its having to pay outgageous amounts of money. Here's another one......if I remember this one correctly. Per mile driven the risk of getting killed on a motorbike in the U.S. is roughly 33 times greater than it is being in a car. Now, I doubt if there's any accurate statistics at all here in Thailand but from what I've seen of the way people driving here in Pattaya I'd say the risk of getting killed on a bike here in Pattaya must be at least several times what it is a motorbike in the U.S. So yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly that 50,000 for either my girlfriend or myself won't even scratch the surface.

Thanks Jack. Very much appreciated.

There are two separate policies. Just got the paperwork back and paid the premium. The first is the general motorbike policy. If I got this right the coverage extends to 10,000,000 baht per accident. Both my passenger and I would get up to 50,000 baht for personal injuries. Property damages for damaged vehicles, etc goes to 200,000 baht. And third party personal injuries go to 100,000 baht per person. Interesting to note that human life is considered to be less valuable than property here. My cost was 2400 baht per year. That's with Southeastl Insurance Group.

The second policy is with Viriyah Insurance. And it costs 860 baht per year. This is for anti-theft and it covers my Nouvo Elegance up to 43,000 baht if it's stolen. I got both policies through a broker, a Thai woman my German condo co-owner friend has known for several years. My friend admitted he has no idea of how reliable the company is on claims telling me with a smile, "We won't know until one of us has a claim." I had been with B.P. Insurance before but had let my policy lapse. My friend had an accident. A motorbike taxi driver swept across several lanes of traffic on 2nd Road near Big C and knocked his motorbike down, then just kept going. He had his motorbike laid up in what he calls a third rate shop for a very long time. From what my friend told me the manager of the Pattaya branch did not want to pay for new parts on his bike. For example, if a comparatively expensive part was damaged the shop would try to burnish it with a machine and pass it off for new, but of course it looked shoddy. I don't think he had a problem on his medical injuries. Then when it came time for him to renew his policy the local office tripled his premium. He made it very clear to me that all his problems were with the manager of the local Pattaya office.

Once again, the most important thing my condo fellow co-owner stressed was the bail bond provision of the policy. What could happen is you have an accident and it's not even your fault. The policy are summoned and you wind up in the monkey house and then the games begin. You cannot get out until you meet the asking price of those who see money coming from rich falang. (I should follow this post with a couple of interesting little stories about milking rich falang).

It's ironical that you should ask. I am paying for my new motorbike insurance at 6 p.m. tonight. The agent is coming to my condo.

I'll post again, the exact details of what I' m getting.

Excellent report and excellent video, Mbox. Shows for one thing there is a huge difference in the driving conditions one encounters everyday in Pattaya city driving versus out in the country throughout Thailand and that the bike that excels in one situation is not going to excel in another.

How would you compare the Tiger to the Ninja in terms of comfort over that long haul driving, overall road ability , vibration in the bikes etc.? I know the Ninja produces a lot more power for one thing. But it's at pretty high rpms. Also, it appears to be more of a sport bike whereas the Tiger seems to have an upright riding position.

You're probably right on the dealership thing Jack. I'm writing from a position of ignorance way down the learning curve. It just looked to me like the larger Yamaha one I've seen was a more of an all-singing all-dancing dealer/garage/showroom/sales outlet. The smaller ones I've visited seem to be little more than shops with a few vehicles, the odd glossy sales brochure and a token mechanic. The latter makes me slightly wary although a new bike is just that and shouldn't have any problems (famous last words). I also thought I could cut a better deal at a larger dealer but given my post above, this may not be the case at all.

The shop I bought all three bikes at is on Central Pattaya Road just before you get to Sukamvit. It's on the left side, where there is a short roadway that veers to the left before you actually hit the intersection. Name of the place is Watchara Marine. Mittoyan (I've misspelled it) down on Third Road is much larger but the price quoted there was about 1000 baht higher.

I thought the standard Elegance price was 55,000 baht for spoked wheels and 57,000 baht for mags. This was confirmed by a visit to a main Yamaha dealer. Having just visited a smaller Yamaha place (more of a shop than a showroom), the Elegance has a price sticker on it quoting 53,500 baht for the spoked wheeled version and 55,500 baht for alloy wheels.

I'm confused. I thought if anything the main dealership would be cheaper?

Got mine for 52000 baht and it was not at the "main dealer". One has to add on the insurance and registration to this however. This at the same dealership I bought two previous Yamahas at. What's the main dealer? The largest? I thought all dealerships were created equal except some are larger than others.